General Discussions
General Discussions
Does anyone think that MFT was overnerfed, or that the nerfs weren't justified?
Comments
-
It's synergy with Dead Hard will be way better now as you can now trigger DH's Deep Wound and then gain 3 % Haste afterwards, which you'll keep because it's Exhaustion negative got removed.
It can be used aggressively in anti tunnel builds now.
My build which I'll try is gonna be Off the Record, Decisive, Dead Hard and MfT.
And it will be a big f you for Legion Players. Blood Echo won't help anymore.
0 -
I don't know what it is with balancing survivor perks that require steep requirements for subpar benefit. I think the whole "getting value for free" narrative get in their head.
8 -
Nope, absolutely justified.
4 -
This is the problem with most survivor perks, they end up overnerfed.
6 -
At this point, I'm fine with it getting nerfed only for the US VS them - fanatics to have their way.
Won't change my type of play. The perks is bad for my playstyle. I dont use it.
1 -
The proposed PTB version of the nerf seems adequate. We'll still need to see it in practice.
0 -
NO
0 -
I don’t think MFT was over nerf, I think the new change will be fine. I’m sorry but that perk was a huge pain to deal with as killer. Only because it made strong loops even stronger and making hope even more powerful. I will say that each side should not have overpowered perks. It sounds better as ain’t tunnel perk also. That it also brings in more balance changes for everyone.
That anyone who saids that they can’t survive without it. They are misunderstanding the situation. Cause I never use it while playing as solo survivor even before MFT came out and when Dead Hard was nerf. I mean yeah solo was a little messy but I it was okay and it will still be okay. So anyway at the end of the day I’m looking forward to the new changes. And I’m also looking forward to seeing how they work. Since that’s why we test things out to help make the game better.
0 -
It definitely needed a nerf and I think it's a step in the right direction but not exactly what this perk should be.
I would like for MfT to become an anti tunnel perk. Increase the Haste effect to 5% and activate it for 60 seconds after the survivor got unhooked or until they do a conspicuous action. That would make it a pretty strong anti tunnel perk. We could even talk about increasing the movement speed a little more. I think that would be fair and a lot healthier than the perk is now.
Regardless of how you look at it, a perk that affects the weaker killers to a super high degree and also increases the strength of Shift + W (permanently), that can still be paired with another exhaustion perk and does little to nothing against the strongest killers, cannot be healthy. Especially if it is a perk that gaslights players into thinking everyone has it with no way to tell, if they actually do. This is exactly why subtle cheaters are a problem. You can have a feeling but you'll never know until they make a blatant mistake or you rewatch a recording.
4 -
I say good riddance to the speed crutch, far too many of my teammates were relying on this to save them in Chase. Now that haste is a situational benefit you can see the real utility of the perks shine which is to promote altruism and give you endurance for it.
4 -
Prove thyself, resilience, off the record, decisive strike, and adrenaline are all perks that are situational and benefit from using other perks with them to make them stronger. Your perks are supposed to synergize together, not perform 4 completely different functions.
2 -
I feel it was nerfed incorrectly. It would have been better to either take away the 3% or the endurance part; make them 2 seperate perks essentially. It's a change that's gone in a direction that feels like they wanted to make it stand out as a unique, technical point.
However, I do applaud them for finding a change regardless. I'm still not a fan of Deep Wound as it doesn't feel like it achieves anything, other than a passive annoyance or differing version of Mangled in terms of healing times.
3 -
Overnerf for those who thought the perk was completely fine and can't loop till many gens without it.
100% justified.
4 -
no. it deserved it
0 -
Prove is straight up garbage along with DS.
Adrenaline has an appropriate pay-off for the punishment of only having 3 perks for a whole trial.
OTR is okay, honestly the Endurance gets me less value than the Iron Will effect.
Resi is also good, but risky.
9 -
The perk literally synergises with itself or you can use it with DH.
1 -
Yes, it was overnerfed.
The perk was strong, yes, but the majority of players using the perk weren't getting value out of the endurance side of the perk. They were able to get value out of the 3% because it was a non-exhaustion perk that was the difference between making a pallet/vault instead of coming up just short.
I would've preferred the Endurance side to be removed from it and added a repair speed penalty while injured to prevent it from synergising with Resilience, and also removed haste stacking to prevent it from synergising with Hope.
Now, the perk screws over killers with built-in Deep Wound, and the options for survivors to trigger it are OTR (Twice per match), Dead Hard (Twice per match), Styptic (Once per match), Basekit BT (Twice per match). The odds of uncoordinated solo's/duo's getting value out of the endurance from healing is going to be rather low. It's just going to be a Win Harder perk for 4-mans, and it will still stack with Hope.
I don't really care that it got nerfed, I'm just disappointed this is the direction they chose.
6 -
Saying Prove is garbage is one hell of a hot take though.
7 -
Ideally the drop in pick rate should mitigate the worst of this issue. I think there's a certain inevitability that certain perks are more effective against certain killers and vice versa. Calm Spirit has always been more effective vs the Doctor's scream-based kit, though only with the introduction of Ultimate Weapon has it really become an issue, to my knowledge. Likewise, no Survivor with a healing build wants to encounter a Plague.
As long as the perk isn't omnipresent, like Thanatophobia was for Plague and Legion before its nerf, in not sure how big a problem it will actually be.
3 -
It’s never really been good and is just bad now. It’s almost always, always more beneficial for survivors to split up on gens. Heck, 2-4 survivors running individual gen repair speed perks and grouping up (to, say, break up a 3-gen) are actually more efficient than just one of them using PT. Killer mains complained about survivors grouping on gens, PT was nerfed. Now, I see complaints about survivors splitting up to different gens. Because that was really always the best choice.
4 -
Saying it's not is literally wrong.
10 -
I just feel the perk makes more sense for the purpose it's supposed to achieve now. I don't really consider it a nerf just an adjustment so the focus is on the original intention of the perk.
0 -
Still top 10 most used perk for survivors, still lets a 2-man repair a gen in ~48 seconds and a 3 man repair a gen in ~35 seconds, still banned in comp.
But sure, "garbage" perk. Same way Pain Res is a garbage perk because it only chews up 25% of a gen's progress.
5 -
The medkit nerf was ages ago and widely asked for. Most people agreed that medkits were busted before.
1 -
I think it was justified and the change is decent.
1 -
Right, that's why comp players, who aren't even allowed to use Prove, will typically stack a critical gen. What works in a vacuum isn't what works in practice.
3 -
The 3% was precisely the most problematic aspect of the perk, and is exactly why everyone has been asking for a nerf for the longest.
7 -
you should be behavior pr manager.
4 -
Couple of things hon:
1.) Comp isn’t actually a singular thing; different competitions have their own rules (and sometimes what one competition bans may be ok in another).
2.) Comp in general has a lot of inane rules. I wouldn’t use that as the litmus for what’s good or bad in this game.
8 -
This.
MFT imo should be a perk that applies buffs (to\after) healing.
3% speed boost should be a completely different perk. Or should not be in the game at all.
Survivors holding W is strong enough even without 3%.
3 -
Yes, changing a normal 32s action (2 Survivors spending 16s on an altruistic heal) to 16s with a Brown item was busted. But making all versions the same charge quantity and only a 5% altruism speed difference, with no distinction for 'class' of item, was ludicrous. That would be like in the (inevitable) future toolbox nerf, they remove Sabo speed differentials, set all toolboxes at 50%, and add 2 charges per rarity tier. I still think the Green should lose the self-heal speed inefficiency, and the Purple should have 32 charges and lose the self-heal charge inefficiency, but I won't make a thread asking for those changes.
Edit: That's why I think Blight/Nurse should have the similar nerf hammer brought upon them (mostly add-ons for Blight, but I wouldn't lose sleep with basekit nerfs either), with more reasonable eyes looking at the rest of the Killers.
3 -
I'm fine with a Haste boost on Deep Wound, because survivors can't just sit around doing other things while in Deep Wound. Their only choices are to either mend and lose the Haste, or run around in circles doing absolutely nothing of value at all. Either way, there is now a meaningful limitation on the speed boost, and there are still circumstances where it is effective.
This is probably the best nerf they could have given it.
6 -
Well deserved nerf. Not much else needed to be said
4 -
Now that MFT is nerfed, think it will be far less common to face in matches. Even Legion and Deathslinger will benefit from this nerf.
2 -
Imagine killers having a perk that when they lost 2 gens they would get a permanent 5% haste for the whole match. The thing is: eventually you will lose a health state/generators. Its dumb to assume that its a "risk", specially since Thanato got gutted.
PS: After reading you post for a second time, i could sense some irony. Hope you are being ironic.
0 -
I seriously think that after the release of the pp on live servers, we will see this perk as a good anti-tunnel perk, because there is always a chance that it will be strengthened at least a little before release
0 -
Slinger main, I love the nerf, but hate it at the same time lol. I think its usage will die off though so it can't be that bad. Now my one problem with the nerf is that I wished it was more reasonable, not just another perk that flipped ends of its strength, from godly to bad. I still will hate that perk for forever but I don't like that the pattern continues.
0 -
No I don't think so... at least on paper
Getting Haste by being in Deep Wound make more sense then just by being injured
Plus it makes even more sense to have Haste while in DW... to get away from the Killer faster and Mend
0 -
Did you hear that everyone?
Holding W Is strong enough. (Totally ignoring basic facts like killers are faster than survivors, and also there’s that pesky mechanic Bloodlust).
😆
5 -
The nerf was totally justified. Mft is the sole reason for the current no heal meta, it just worked too well with Resilience, Hope, Windows and alike. Take its universal utility away and we hopefully see some more variety in survivor loudouts again.
The approach of linking the haste to deep wound is a really interesting approach, I guess no one expected that. It creates great synergy with anti-tunneling effects (BT + OTR), and rewards skillful play (using DH or Mft Endurance effect successfully). But I feel the 3% haste will not be enough anymore, given how situational the perk will be.
Since it will work so well in tunneling situations, I thought, why not buff the haste to 5% as compensation, to make it a try anti-tunneling perk? So the killer would have to think twice whether they want to chase someone in deep wound or not. It's still just a temporarily haste, though, since the surv will have to mend eventually to do something other that running. The only real issue I see with this approch is FTP + BU, but that should be changed regardless.
As an alternative to the haste, I thought that Mft could work like Overcome, but for endurance hits. So when you are hit into deep wound, you would get an increased on-hit speed boost, causing exhaustion. But that would remove synergy with other exhaustion perks, most notably dead hard, so I think haste without the exhaustion restriction is the better approach.
4 -
When Killers can't be bothered to get good so BHVR needs to hold Killer Mains hands. They will be quick to tell Survivors to adapt if they so much complain.
3 -
"Killer mains need to git gud!"
In defense of a crutch perk that gave you a speed boost with no effort on the survivor's part whatsoever.
7 -
Survivors didn't "get good" when Eruption/CoB/Overcharge was meta and BHVR nerfed those perks.
7 -
The difference is Survivors don't uninstall or quit waiting for Devs to change. Survivors will still play.
1 -
Sure they do. Here's a thread that was made just last night:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/395917/i-think-im-finally-done
6 -
i was but trust me there were literal people unironically say "mft is risky". mft defenders came up with the funniest arguments you could ever see about any topic, but honestly they kinda had to to defend their hilariously broken perk and not lose it one day.
2 -
the proposed mft is not strong enough deter killers from tunneling. I have feeling they will buff this perk to be strong anti-tunnel perk for killer that purposely hit borrow time to tunnel off-hook and it might become stronger post-ptb.
3 -
We already have one extremely strong anti tunnel perk in OTR. I could agree to DS receiving a small buff in some way (increase stun to 5s, or killer can't use power x seconds after DS), but we don't need any more incentive for aggressive play off hook. Tunneling isn't a problem that needs to be fixed.
3 -
extremely strong? i don't see OTR as extreme strong anti-tunnel perk. I would say the perk is stronger at bodyblocking when killer then anti-tunneling. the same is true for DS. When someone uses OTR or uses Decisive strike, it makes me want to tunnel the person even more because of sunk cost fallacy. I don't know but lately I have been taking decisive strikes and animation feels longer. It feels more like 4 seconds instead of 3 seconds but I am not sure. either way, it is not deterring me as killer from tunneling.
Current MFT is only perk on survivor side that deters me from tunneling as killer. If I see the loop is too strong and I know survivor has MFT. I will not chase a strong looper using MFT. the chase is too damaging. the dev are making MFT into anti-tunnel perk where if the haste becomes powerful enough, it will deter killer from ever hitting borrow time. Otz talks about this in his perks problematic perk video in STBFL section.
3 -
TBH, the scary thing is some people in our comunnity REALLY believes MFT is a fair perk, even being a perk that completly counter some killers (The Knight, SM, 4.4 Killers, 4.6 with no chase power) and make them unbelievable bad.
4
