Resilience, Deja Vu, Prove Thyself vs Dying Light
Resilience: Play bad, take a hit and receive this amazing 9% generator speed bonus!
Deja Vu: Do nothing and BHVR will show to you the survivor main objetive (generators) all the time with 6% speed bonus. LoL
Prove Thyself: Sit on a gen with your friend while you chat on the discord, maybe hearing music or telling a joke and get 10% gen speed everytime you do that.
Dying light: Find the survivor, do a good move, get a hit, waste more 20 or 30 seconds, maybe winning a 50/50 mind game, break a pallet or two, pick the survivor, avoid a flashlight or pallet stun from his team, waste more 5 to 10 seconds to reach a hook, hope someone is not sabotaging it, hook the victim and IF THE DOWNED SURVIVOR IS NOT THE OBSESSION get a 3% (three times less) genetor slow speed bonus.
What kind of thing the put into the BHVR's developers team coffee served while they work?
Comments
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I think all these 3 survivor perks are fine. But Dying Light deserves some buff. Whatever, this is quite weird comparison.
Post edited by Astel on3 -
From when taking hit is means bad play? If i am not mistaken hits and downs supposed to happen no matter what because that's DbD's normal gameplay lmao.
Are you really expecting games with no hits?
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Are you asking for a 3-in-1 Survivor Nerf Bundle or a Dying Light Buff?
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Taking a hit isn't playing bad. Taking a hit and then escaping chase is playing well, and playing with one health state is taking a risk. Resilience isn't unfair, though maybe the value could be decreased slightly to 7/8%.
Do nothing? You're spending a perk slot. These things are designed to help you. You're running a perk designed to help you avoid a 3-gen scenario. You still need to actually repair those gens though, and it's not going to help you that much if the killer actively defends them. All it really does is prevent you (but not your team mates) from accidentally 3-genning.
Repairing a gen with other survivors incurs a speed penalty, which Prove Thyself no longer fully compensates for. It's objectively worse than splitting up, and is only useful when trying to smash out the final gen, which you will get 4s quicker. An entire perk to potentially save you 4s out of the entire game, IF there's another survivor around.
I'm not sure why you're being so disingenuous in trying to compare some of the better survivor gen perks (and one of the better survivor perks saves a single 4 seconds) with one of the worst killer slowdown perks. You're forgetting about Pain Res, Jolt, PGTW, Pentimento, etc.
Here let me try.
Dying Light: Hook any of 75% of your potential objective, which is what you do anyway as killer, so basically do nothing special, and slow gen speeds by 3%. Repeat as necessary, so just keep playing normally, and slow gen speeds by up to 33%.
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Even setting aside how you're sort of overstating all those survivor perks... what exactly are you proving by comparing really good perks to really bad perks?
All you're proving is that Dying Light specifically is a bad perk. It's not the only killer perk that exists, though, nor is it emblematic of how strong gen defence perks are on average.
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I really do question how some players view TAKING A HIT a bad play.
It's not 2016 anymore boys.
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I find it funny that a lot of people that whine about MFT had the argument where you get 3% haste for playing bad. It is like no, it is just trigger condition so the perk has less up-time.
His major point still stands that Dying light design requires more effort on killer part to be relevant yet reward is not worth it. The perk still has 3 negatives while none of survivor perks have any negatives and only give positives.
The 3 negatives are:
1) Obsession is immune to the effect
2) The perk is disabled when Obsession dies.
3) Obsession gains free 33% healing speed.
I wish they could at least remove Negative #1 and Negative #3.
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Resilience: - taking a massive risk and a perk-slot sounds fine to me for 9%
Deja Vu: the main objectives are shown all the time? How cool is that? Too bad they aren't running around the map, so it's only a QoL thing after the first few seconds
Prove Thyself: well, yes. But at least I can pressure them at the same time if I find them
Dying Light: wait... are we comparing bottom-of-the-barrel trash perks to the near meta ones? Strange.
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I think just losing no.3 would be enough. You're right that it doesn't need to benefit a survivor, just not affecting them would be enough.
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i want at least no.1 and no.3. I don't like how obsession is immune to action speed penalty because it means that when i chase someone, the person i chase has not be obsession to stack perk. Given 3 survivor are always on gens, it means that only 2 player are affected by the perk because I chase 1 person and Obsession is immune, so 2-4 = 2. The -action speed penalty reward is low. I would also like the perk to be 3%->4% but that is probably too high hopes for dying light. Just getting rid of negatives of 2 negatives is least that perk could get. It will still retain negative that obsession does not build stacks and the perk goes away if obsession dies.
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Lethal Pursuer: Do nothing and BHVR will show you to the killer main objective (survivors) for free at the most important time with 2s aura extend bonus.
Enduring: Play bad, get stunned by a pallet and receive this amazing 50% stun duration reduction bonus!
Deadlock: Go AFK and make a sandwich, and slow the game down by a minimum of 30 seconds but often more, even against cheaters!
We can do this all day, perks are meant to help you and give you benefits. There's no need to "us vs them" and strawman these perks like they're all incredible crutches that the "other side" doesn't deserve.
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Deja Vu doesn't need this 6% speed bonus. Three Gens Aura Reading itself is very strong effect. I would just remove 6% speed bonus.
Resilence - 9% repair speed & 9% faster vaults - very strong - I would remove one of these two effects or decrease value from 9% to 6/7% both.
Prove Thyself - fair
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Yeah, but increasing gen speeds isn't healthy and it requries gen regression perks from Killers (also boring).
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"Go AFK and make a sandwich" hahaha material like this is why I stay on the forums
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6% is very little and it only works on highlighted gens, which you aren't always going to be able to repair anyhow. If the perk was ONLY for seeing three gens it'd be pretty trash for everyone except new players.
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Deja Vu did not have any speed bonus for the longest time, and was being considered one of the most useless perks. This and it being active the whole time is the reason the perk is used at all now. Without the speed boost, it would no longer be used, reducing perk variety further.
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90% of Survivors don't know how to not "3gen" themself to be honest. This perk is very good - especially in indoor maps.
6% is very little - eh... okay man okay man.
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Before the buff aura effect was different and had time limit. So do not say wrong things, please. And I dissagree. People mostly use this perk becaue of Aura Reading Mechanic.
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I think they refer to fast hits and very short chases. Otherwise it makes no sense.
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Dying light should be reworked. Maybe have an additional gen speed debuff when all survivors are hooked once. Remove the Obsession related debuffs. Given all the nerfs to regression, gen speed reduction (Pentimento, Scourge GOP, Dying Light) might be the alternative to slowing down gen progress.
Thanatophobia should be buffed back to pre nerf numbers to incentivize healing. Healing was supposed to be the slowdown to make up for the gen regression perk nerfs. This is where the Obsession healing bonus from Dying light could be implemented so that the Obsession would become the “medic” for faster heals as a counter to Thana, encouraging teamwork.
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Dying Light - Slow down survivors by doing the thing you were going to do anyway.
Diversion - Spend time hiding in the killer's terror radius without being caught, then you get to throw a pebble.
This is a fun forum game.
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Taking a hit when heal times are this long, in solo-q with survivors who don't know where you are / don't want to heal you, as a survivor who goes down quickly in chase... is a bad thing 😔
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Deja vu is quite underrated but is still quite underused, as long as not everybody is playing it, it's ok. Could be nerfed depending on the number of gen done like 1/2 % bonus less for the first three ...
Prove could be unfair if two were stacked, but now that it is nerfed, it's more ok.
Resilience is quite a useful perk but could be tuned down for gens, like bettween 3% and 6% speed...
Dying light is trash...
Possible solutions :
Put it as a hex and upgrade the effects to 5% or maybe like 10 at best (still will be useless at the begining of the game) ...
Could also work with the same kind of principle as stbfl : +2 for hooking a non obsession and - 4 for the obsession ...
Or you could also make it apply on all conspicuous actions.
Lastly you could buff it by removing all restrictions (obsession boost, depends on the obsession being alive and obsession not giving the effect), it wouldn't even be played i bet ...
So yeah not comparable many of the existing perks could be buffed ...
I don't understand what you are asking exactly but i hope it answers it...
Main killer btw and not really annoyed with the gens perks, just afraid of all of them stacking too easily and games going from 5 minutes to like 2 min...
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Cant tell if you are serius or not.
Prove Thyself - gives up to 30% faster gen repair, thats a lot, i wont do the math because there are diminishing returns on gens with more players, (but look at my Deja Vu comment for the 6%) Prove Thyself is clearly also strong.
Deja Vu - is actually very underrated, i would call it semi meta, knowing the exact gen location makes you find gens faster, also it helps break potential 3 gens. Both effects are strong. and 6% is 6.66 secs faster gen repair, it sums up to 33.33 secs saved on 5 gens. Thats not bad. Now this is with 0 gen regression, if we add gen regressing from killer interaction, its even more time you save.
Resilience - look at my other comments, its clearly also strong, 10 secs for each gen, its 50 secs saved on 5 gens, more if we count in gen regression (see my comment for Deja Vu).
Dying light - is meh, it gives too little too late imo.
I do fail to see why you put up those 4 perks for comparrison?
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Dying Light is "a day late and a dollar short"
Resilience is risk V reward... being injured but having a bonus to Gen efficiency and vault speed
Prove Thyself is trying to balance Gen efficiency V penalties
Daja Vu is for players that can't find Gens (like me) not just new players
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I needed a laugh so bad lmao Thank you to everyone who asked for a nerf to Resilience
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I'm not saying wrong things. Maybe a bit inaccurate, I give you that.
Deja Vu received three buffs/changes over the time. The longest time it was giving gens auras at the start of the match for one minute. That was it's weakest form, and no one played it for good reason.
Then it was changed to give 3-gen aura for 1 min at the start and after a gen is done. This was a significant buff, but the perk would still not be picked.
Then the gen speed buff was added (but duration stayed). So another slight buff. Was it picked then? No, still too weak.
Only with the last change, aura being unlimited, the perk finally was recognized and picked into builds.
I agree that having unlimited aura may be the stronger effect than the gen speed buff. But I still think the speed buff is required for the perk to be actually picked. Without it, there's no reason to pick it if you have some game knowledge where the most notorious 3-gens are on the maps. Deja Vu aura makes this just easier for you.
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Only with the last change, aura being unlimited, the perk finally was recognized and picked into builds.
I think there's a big extenuating circumstance involved in this though.
Deja Vu acquired permanent aura reading in June, but around that time, maybe a little later, the Chess Merchant debacle also kicked off, which saw 3-genning skyrocket in popularity. That obviously makes the repair speed boost to 3-gens massively increase in value too.
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Perks are meant to be helpful. Not all of them need someone to do something in order to activate them. This insinuates that perks are supposed to be earned by how you talk about the first 3 perks, when most aren't built that way... you could say this about noed, any exhaustion perk, ultimate weapon, lethal pursuer etc.
You could have literally just said "Hey bhvr, this perk needs a buff" and explained how it could be improved and why you think it fails as a perk... not making this pointless comparison to make survivor perks seem much better than killer perks.
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Thats also correct.
But even now, with Chess merchant butchered, Deja Vu is the 7th most picked perk with a pick rate of 12%, according to Nightlight. It even increased pick rate in the last weeks.
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I'm more so pointing out that the aura reading isn't necessarily the reason the perk became popular.
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I like how this thread became a discussion of deja vu.
I frequently run deja vu, but one thing to point out is that this is one of those perks specifically meant to counter a killer strategy (3 genning). If the devs ever get around to spreading the gens out more, then it would be reasonable to weaken the perk.
As a perk: it saves 5.1 seconds if you do a gen from start to finish. Not bad, but let's look at some other times.
Prove saves ~4.8 seconds on a gen when working with someone else, so its worse than deja without the aura, but can shine end game where you might have 3 people on 1 gen and desperately need to finish the gen.
We'll Make It has a really high chance to save at least 8 seconds if you get a single hook rescue.
Botany knowledge saves 4 seconds and will probably outpace the deja time savings if you heal 2 survivors.
I don't think the time savings are anything outlandish even with the aura reading. To use it you need to be in an area the killer is likely to be patrolling and its purpose is to address a game issue that if 3 gens in close proximity are left up, the game can drag on/stalemate.
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What else then? The gen speed increase alone is hardly usable when you don't know where it applies. The aura is the core part of the perk, gen speed is secondary.
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Except if the killer locks down a 3-gen from the start, like with Chess Merchant, the aura reading is irrelevant because ultimately there'll only be three gens left, and you'll know all three locations after the first 30 minutes trying to break the 3-gen.
The speed is the primary value, the aura supports it.
If the aura was that valuable, Visionary would have a use.
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I don't agree with that. The speed boost is too small for reliably breaking a heavy guarded 3-gen. You still need the team keeping the killer busy to break the 3-gen. And if you really want to counter pick against hardcore 3-genning, potential energy works way better in that context.
Imo, Deja Vu gets picked to prevent 3-gen situations from happening, at least that's the reason I'm equipping it.
Visionary lost it purpose completely when Deja Vu got it's timer removed. Before that, visionary was at least longer active than Deja Vu. Now, even if the aura deactivation condition would be removed (why is that still a thing??) it would still be worse.
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Why most players use Windows Of Oportunity then? Even experienced players like to use it?
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I really don't get it. Every small % of the most important stats in this game is a huge deal. Movement speeds & repair speeds.
Someone can play Deja Vu & Resilence and he can get 15% boost. It's crazy for me. I really dislike how BHVR buffs "injury state" playstyle.
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Bc the survivors defences change (pallets get destroyed), and being chased is a dynamic process, were you have to make decisions quickly. Windows helps in making the best decisions.
Gens do not move, they stay at their place, there is no dynamic process involved (if the gens were to float around and change their place e.g. when not being worked on, that would be a different topic, than Deja Vu would actually help you keep track of ever-changing 3-gens). If you are observant enough and know of the usual gen spawns, you don't need Deja Vu auras. The perk sure helps in identifying them, so you don't waste any time finding the 3-gens. But you COULD invest some time to find out the gen structure, it does not change, and from this point on, Deja Vu auras are meaningless for you. Deja Vu without speed boost is a beginner perk for finding important gens, and would not have any high pick rate. The speed boost makes it a (near-)meta-perk with a significant pick rate.
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