What is wrong with stbfl?

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Can someone please explain in detail what is actually wrong with this perk? I'm not stubbornly clinging to a perk I love and am completely willing to change my mind if I'm wrong but I don't think there's anything wrong with it. I hate gens. I know that a lot of people if not most run a lot of regression or whatever but that's not me.

If I run a strong chase killer like pyramid head or blight I just run things like deadlock or no way out just to buy me more time to chase. If I'm not running those strong chase killers I run a full chase build such as stbfl bamboozle enduring and coup. Sure I lose more like that but it's more fun than patrolomg gens. Stbfl just gives that edge that helps the already weaker m1 killers like pig and trapper. I don't want to lose my in no way overpowered builds. But please if if I am wrong tell me why and I will altar my opinion.

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  • Killing_Time
    Killing_Time Member Posts: 894
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    Lol so now stbfl needs to be nerfed🤣🤣🤣

  • Astel
    Astel Member Posts: 618
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    Nothing's wrong with STBFL.

Answers

  • CatnipLove
    CatnipLove Member Posts: 1,006
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    I don't use the perk, so I'm not that well versed in the fine details, but I've heard people complain about how good it can be for tunneling/camping. Maybe that's the issue.

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,066
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    Bring back 1.62sec cool down to 1.8sec like pre 6.1.0 because 3% matter. And may be M2 Obsession also lose stack.

    Well thats what I think.

  • OrangeBear
    OrangeBear Member Posts: 2,345
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    I think the problem is lack of counterplay. Obsession is meant to take hits to lose stacks but you can't communicate that in solo queue. Also, killers like demo with easy to use special attacks can use that on the obsession should they try to do this counter. You can't do anything about this and it just transforms some killers into save the best for last users instead of using their own power.

    Also ever since they started using endurance for anti-tunnelling and camping, STBFL became an anti-anti tunnel.

    The perk probably shouldn't work on endurance hits and there needs to be more counterplay to reduce the amount of tokens the killer has.

  • crogers271
    crogers271 Member Posts: 1,419
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    It's one of those perks that SWFs have a much easier time dealing with. Just have the obsession become the chased target. In a soloq, even if every survivor is trying their best, the obsession might never have been in a situation to see the perk is in use.

  • ironligma
    ironligma Member Posts: 117
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    I present to you, desprate measures, my favorite perk for survivor lol.

  • ironligma
    ironligma Member Posts: 117
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    I use stbfl on slinger a lot, believe me when I'm telling you that I still use my power just as much. It's mainly helpful for me to be able to hit a survivor and then reload faster. It does shred through endurance though I will give you that, and I would say an endurance hit should take 2 stacks, but then what about a perk like dead hard?

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,455
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    Making Stbfl only have 6 stacks would literally change some milliseconds. The real problem with the Perk is camping.

    Changing this perk is difficult because many lower killer more or less rely on it to have faster chases. Stronger killers don't really care about it.

    An ideal change would be to nerf it's camping ability but to leave it's chasing power the same.

  • OrangeBear
    OrangeBear Member Posts: 2,345
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    Well Deathslinger is an exception because his power combines with his basic attack.

    I'm talking about special attack killers like Demogorgon, Pig and Mastermind. I've been against players that just use their power to conserve STBFL tokens and then they just use basic attack the whole game. A perk should never overshadow a killer power like that

  • ironligma
    ironligma Member Posts: 117
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    Ah I see. I run it on nemo but only with backpack builds lol but I certainly find myself punching more with it. Also most of those killers aren't the easiest to hit power so why not stbfl. You can m1 then m2.

  • egg_
    egg_ Member Posts: 1,933
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    bad m2 killers crutch on it

  • Gabe_Soma
    Gabe_Soma Member Posts: 276
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    You know, it doesn't feel great when you take a hit and right after the killer is next to your butt without any distance having been covered.

    I don't think it's busted or OP, just adjust it according to the new cooldown hit and the surv's speed boost after the 6.1.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,130
    edited November 2023
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    You know what doesn't feel great as well? Playing an m1 killer like trapper, landing a hit, and then the person gets a free ride straight to killer shack or some unmindgameable loop and if you commit to the chase you lose the game because you can't mindgame the loop so you have to dance around the window 3 times until it blocks, hope that they don't have a connected tile, then they drop the pallet and you break it, taking a full 30-40 seconds to do so, then it takes another 20 to catch up after breaking the pallet. Meanwhile the other 3 survivors are on 3 different gens and oh look, they are done now gg. But if you don't chase them, they'll be back in it in 20 seconds. Rinse and repeat until eventually you lose.


    STBFL is currently the only thing these types of killers have to close the gap right now. And you know who doesn't use STBFL? Spirit, blight, nurse, you know. The best killers? They don't give a damn and won't care when it gets nerfed. So what will the outcome be? Yet again, the low tier killers suffer and the high tier killers stay the same. All because the killer spent several minutes, building up their stacks (while the obsession did ######### all to prevent it for some reason) making it so the survivors get one less second chance and the killer can actually be a threat to them.


    Look how many second chances survivors get without perks. Now look at how many second chances killers get without perks? You'll notice that survivors get many, and killers get 0.


    The only change i think STBFL should get, is that the obsession gets a notification when the killer has it, so they know they need to go for body blocks. This is something that closes the gap between solo and SWF.

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,318
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    That's the problem though. When a killer already struggles to get hits, then any distance they need to catch up becomes too much. This is why STBFL is used. You hit a survivor and they have to use the very next loop against you. This will not change by reverting it to its 6.1.0 state. I mean, just do the maths. The time difference is 0.18 seconds. That is 0.72 metres of distance less, which a killer closes in 1.2 seconds.

    This still results in the survivor having to use the very next loop they get to, so the difference is pretty much non existent. I'm fine with reverting it to this state, but I find it weird to see people claim, that it's so much stronger now, when the difference is so minor.

  • JPLongstreet
    JPLongstreet Member Posts: 5,395
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    My precious Piggy is also good at preserving her stacks, if you're good with her dash. 🐷🐽

  • SweetbutaPsycho
    SweetbutaPsycho Member Posts: 156
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    It plays into the current hard tunnel meta. When a non Obsession gets unhooked and the killer has sufficient Stacks he can use them to go through the endurance and down the survivor again.

  • ProfessorDunwich
    ProfessorDunwich Member Posts: 1,514
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    They are probably going to nerf it while doing nothing for M1 Killers.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,130
    edited November 2023
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    Best solution would be to give the obsession a notification when it is in use, so they know they need to go take some hits. But nerfing it "because demo" is dumb, because good demos aren't using at.

  • RaSavage42
    RaSavage42 Member Posts: 5,531
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    The fact that people know how to use this perk is enough

    M1 non-Obsession to gain stacks

    Then M2 when it comes to the Obsession

  • Emoba
    Emoba Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 514
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    Because it makes lower MMR controller players play suboptimally? So the perk is gonna be buffed?

  • NerfDHalready
    NerfDHalready Member Posts: 1,409
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    the only exception here is pig and that's only because her ambush is terrible. you aren't getting any value out of your perk if you are going for an m1 in situations using power would save you more time.

  • Malkhrim
    Malkhrim Member Posts: 935
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    The only problem I see with it is that, once you get many stacks, it can be used to camp quite effectively. You can interrupt an unhook and, even if they start the action again and rescue right before being downed, you can than immediatly chase after the unhooked survivor. If multiple people bodyblock in order to stop you, if you have 8 stacks, you can still hit many of them and, a lot of the time, garantee you will have at least one downed, it's quite insane.

    Otherwise, I think the perk is actually pretty healthy. It's a tool that makes m1 killers more efficient, and possibly the only meta killer perk that is a chase perk and not a gen defense, information or healing slowdown perk. It's far from problematic in chase, and it only allows for double-hits if survivors do a big mistake, like trying to spin and losing way too much distance or getting stuck in an object.

  • Emoba
    Emoba Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 514
    edited November 2023
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    Pig is not a special attack killer, lol. Her dash attack is not even close to be a reliable tool 90% of the time. She's an M1 killer that occasionally uses a special attack.

  • ARTRA
    ARTRA Member Posts: 881
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    If i should guess.

    "You cant trade hooks if stbfl its fully charged".

  • Erasox
    Erasox Member Posts: 220
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    For me STBFL will never be a issue. I dont care about because its mostly a bad perk design from bhvr

    and every change they do is mostly only a band-aid fix for a bad mechanic or weak killer design or whatever...

  • ThanksForDaily
    ThanksForDaily Member Posts: 1,287
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    Busted perk especially after the reduced hit cooldown and survivors reduced burst after the hit, simple as.

  • pigslittlepet
    pigslittlepet Member Posts: 432
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    You can. Even with 8 stacks their is still time for a unhook.

  • Akumakaji
    Akumakaji Member Posts: 4,934
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    But that would be horrible. Most M2 attacks use much more finesse then just M1 a survivor in range and basically all have a big punishment attached, should the killer miss. A lot of the weaker killers in games CAN try to safe their STBFL stacks by doing an M2 attack, but thats still not an automatic success or anything and carries the chance of missing and letting the survivor escape. I think that skillfull play and right decisions should never be punished, just imagine if something like crouching against certain M2 attacks didn't work anymore, because "thats not how its supposed to work" (I am making this up as a hypothetical situation, of course), would the game be better as a result, because we eliminated a source of frustration from one side, by limiting counterplay and clever options from the other?

    Weaker killers like Demo or Pig can get a big step up when they manage to preserve their STBFL stacks with their clunky M2, don't take this away :V

  • bjorksnas
    bjorksnas Member Posts: 5,207
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    Save the best for last at 8 stacks used to save 1.2s on a 3s cooldown (1.8s)

    now it saves 1.08s on a 2.7s cooldown (1.62s)

    just gotta turn it down to 7 stacks max (1.755s)


    although it should be as simple as remove a stack (because 2 stacks would be a bit much for the dynamic of the perk losing 2 stacks for hitting the obsession) its probably gonna be a more complex rework

  • pigslittlepet
    pigslittlepet Member Posts: 432
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    That's what worries me. bhvr has a tendency to butcher perks instead of giving them the slight balance they need.

  • Sometimes_Sage
    Sometimes_Sage Member Posts: 143
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    How did the Killer get STBFL stacks if they were tunneling?

  • pigslittlepet
    pigslittlepet Member Posts: 432
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    Clearly I'm not on the side of a nerf but it doesn't take a tremendous amount of effort to get a few stacks if they aren't sending the obsession in for hits

  • SweetbutaPsycho
    SweetbutaPsycho Member Posts: 156
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    Lets see:

    He downs the first survivor thats 2 Stacks

    Afterwards someone thats ideally not the Obsession goes for the unhook thats another Stack

    Unhook bt plus downing the unhooked survivor is 5 Stacks already

    Repeat that for second hook state and u have 8 Stacks

    For the other 2 non Obsessions their vt buys them at most 2 seconds after that

  • RpTheHotrod
    RpTheHotrod Member Posts: 1,718
    edited November 2023
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    Killer main here.

    Some things should not be touched. Long term movement speed from both sides and hit recovery from killers should always be standardized. The maps are balanced around the expectation of movement speeds and recovery speeds being the same. Changing those fundamentally breaks the balance of the game. We need those recovery speeds and consistent longterm movement speeds to be set in stone. Otherwise, everything falls apart like a house of cards. I feel pre-nerf MFT and STBFL were almost equal in regards to being broken. STBFL is less broken, however, as there is at least survivor counterplay by the obsession being on the front line.

    Just my opinion.

  • pigslittlepet
    pigslittlepet Member Posts: 432
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    With all due respect I must disagree. True it should be standardized for maps but the maps are just too varied and different for that to be true. Going to bedham or garden of hell, could start you with 8 tokens and I still dont like the odds.