Hex: Two Can Play need buffs
This is a really bad perk.
- Hex.
- Takes 2 stuns/blinds to activate.
- Can be cleansed.
- 1.5 seconds blind duration is too short.
This perk is worse than Hex: Ruin, almost as bad as Territorial Imperative or Beast of Prey.
Comments
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I don't think this perk supposed to be helpful in any play, it's just meme perk. It's doing what it supposed to do, i don't think any change needed.
7 -
I would at least make it a 2 sec blind tbf.
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I like that it can be reinstated after being cleansed though. More perks should get that.
6 -
This. Cleansing it only temporarily removes it and does not remove it from play. Once it's activation conditions are met again, it ignites a new totem. Two can play at the whole relighting totem thing now.
3 -
The perk should blind the survivor for 1.5 times the amount of time the killer is blinded. It would be a nice counter to flashlight saves. You can save your team mate, but at a cost
3 -
this is that kind of perk that is better a bit weaker than it should be than otherwise.
it can be really oppressive and frustrating to deal with.
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Oppressive and frustrating to deal with? I forgot that entity forces survivors blind or stun killers.
It works same as with Spirit Fury, once you know killer have it, you know how to play around it, but even easier.
So i see literally 0 reasons not to make it at least 2 seconds.
10 -
people who know how to play this game well, sure.
you know damn well a lot of people would find issue in a sudden blind out of nowhere that lasts way too long.
accessibility issue muh muh.
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I think 2s would be fine and that it shouldn‘t need two stuns before working, the relighting is cool, but I don‘t see why it is a hex.
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Especially for such people, this perk appears in the upper right corner of the screen. And even if it hadn't been, balancing the game for people who are not able to make a conclusion "I dropped a pallet on the killer's head and got blinded. I don't think I should do that again, because he has some kind of perk" – this is the way to nowhere.
Following this logic, I can make almost any perk in the game completely useless.
5 -
it is still so bad. I would likely let it trigger on m1 basic attacks and increase the blind from 1.5 to 4 seconds. At least then, maybe survivor would run into walls and stbfl+rapid brutality could be interesting with that hex.
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why are you trying to so hard to advocate for a pretty annoying perk to be strong?
bhvr are doing the correct thing by not making such perks good.
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You realize how ridiculously OP this is against beginner players, right? A 4 second blank screen whenever you hit someone is basically "you had better memorize the layout of every prop within 2 tiles radius to millimeter precision and navigate them blindfolded or else you are getting 2-tapped." Good players will absolutely be able to navigate the map for a couple seconds like that (for example I'm fine after flashbanging myself usually), but against anyone with less than like 500 hours in survivor it's basically a "buy one hit and get the second one for free" button.
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Honestly, this perk shouldn't get a buff it needs to be reworked. It just fundamentally isn't the best idea and if it was overbuffed it wouldn't be healthy for the game.
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If it activated after one stun and not two, it would be an okay Pentimento-feeder. Not nearly as good as Plaything, but that way it would at least have a use.
Not that I mind it being an entirely useless fun meme perk. I want more of those!
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I dunno.. It's certainly not a powerful Perk, but saying it's "really bad" isn't what I've noticed.
The benefit of this Perk is that it can be re-lit, so long as a dull totem is available. I've seen this Perk be directly responsible for Survivors running into objects after a Pallet stun which - when the Perk is combined with Endurance and Spirit Fury especially - is a guaranteed hit.
It is a meme Perk and that's fine. Not every Perk has to be Corrupt Intervention or Pop Goes The Weasel. It has uses. It's not overly strong but is situationally fun. It's not bad.
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beginner players should learn the maps. it costs 3 perk slot to do this so it better do something.
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Beginner players are learning the maps? Like, if they knew the maps perfectly, would they still be considered beginners??
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Just make it blind for same duration as stun / blind.
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my point is that beginner player should not bog perk balance down. They'll lose to any perk because they are not playing properly. perk balance in particular should always be balanced around highest level of play. for reference, 4 second blind is very long. that is equal to a survivor blinding you, then chain-blinding you with a flashlight. It will catch even experienced survivors off-guard.
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You're asking for a perk that removes survivor ability to see anything at all, for longer than hit cooldown, upon hitting them, for the cost of not respecting 2 pallets. You do realize that's effectively an ask to be given free 2-taps on about 80% of survivor players, right?
-1 -
i think 80% is exaggeration. it is not that hard to run forward in straight line. the perk is hex perk and it can be disabled with time sink. the current iteration of the perk is nearly worthless.
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You assume people are always going to be facing 20 straight meters of open space and won't run into stuff, particularly new players who aren't used to that kind of mechanic. Maybe 80% is an exaggeration, but if you think such a perk wouldn't just instantly vaporize (figuratively) a large percent of the casual playerbase, you clearly haven't played any solo survivor recently.
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that's not very fair at all. this perk has so many conditions for so little payoff. fix at least one of those things.
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this argument can be applied to so many perks in this game man. that's not an excuse to make a weak (frankly useless) perk stronger.
a decent buff is not gonna make this perk meta, it will make it more viable for creative builds and that's what we wanna see in this game. i am very very certain that newer/inexperienced players have far more of an issue against 4 gen regression perks or powerful chase perks that are constantly run.
3 -
I'm not arguing against a buff to Two can Play, I think increasing the duration to 3 or 4 seconds or 1.5 × the duration of a stun or blind would be great even, I'm arguing specifically against having a version of Two Can Play that activates on a successful normal attack.
Honestly the reason why that version of a perk is problematic, the power it has to get a 2-tap against new players and people who are unprepared (solo queue players) is so obvious to me that asking for that, to me, feels directly equivalent to asking for free double taps.
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3-4 seconds is too much and I don‘t want a longer stun. In trailes with many structures you are dead then. I don‘t understand why this perk is a hex right now for that it‘s way too weak. I would make it 2-2,5s. On hitting people it would be cool, but then the sprint burst would be useless in some scenarios.
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a strong perk is suppose to instantly vaporize bad players. they're not playing the game properly. perk balance should not be balanced around lowest level. lower-mid-level player should adapt/learn to play against the perk or accepting losing to the perk due to poor play. I don't understand why every killer perk needs this massive amount of hand-holding. with that type of attitude, every single killer perk has to be bad with excuse of "too oppressive for new players".
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Maybe the blind duration should be based on the duration of the stun/blind inflicted on the killer, rather than a flat 1.5s duration (either the same duration aka 100%, or maybe slightly longer). This would be increasing the blind duration in most situations without making it oppressive with Enduring.
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When I said "vaporize" i meant "cause them to quit playing the game for good." Being denied the ability to run away after getting hit, which is what the perk you proposed would do to new players, would be so frustrating that most would say "it's not even worth trying to learn the counterplay to that"
However, I'll humor you and address the argument that you seem to be making, that a good perk should cause low level players to lose incredibly fast.
Let me get this straight. You think that simply by equipping a perk, killer players should be able to ensure they always win against low level players - not through outskilling the low level players, but through allowing the perk to shred through the weaker player.
You're right! I also don't understand why killer players need to be handheld and given perks that give them free wins against newer survivor players, instead of actually beating the survivor players through their own skill expression.
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I mean if you do not enjoy playing dbd, then... yeah quit the game. no one forcing you to play the game. quitting the game because of a perk sounds ridiculously in my opinion.
Let me get this straight. You think that simply by equipping a perk, killer players should be able to ensure they always win against low level players - not through outskilling the low level players, but through allowing the perk to shred through the weaker player.
absolutely. The killer is outskilling you by using perk that you are terrible at playing vs. At some point, there has to be accountability for a skill-issue.
I also don't understand why killer players need to be handheld and given perks that give them free wins against newer survivor players, instead of actually beating the survivor players through their own skill expression.
good killer won't vs newer survivors. It is new killers that will play against newer survivors. Newer killer are likely making gameplay errors for newer survivors to win. a newer killer can be defeated just as newer survivor will often die. It is just matters for who is the worse player. Newer survivor will die to regardless to what perk are used because they are poor at the fundamental basics of the game.
Equipping perks is basic mechanic in the game. it is part of skill expression of successfully playing dbd. I do not understand why your post implies an exclusion to skill expression and utilizing perk.
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Dang you're right, people who have played for only 10-20 hours are absolute cowards for choosing to stop playing a game that has mechanics that make the game unenjoyable to them. they should be forced to keep playing the game they don't find fun until they know how to counter it. That makes sense, because, uh...
It's quite telling you assume I'm talking about myself and that I couldn't possibly be caring about the experience of other players. Absolutely tracks with someone who meets any criticism of a perk idea with accusations of hand-holding
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They should either slightly increase the blind duration (2 or 2.5 seconds) or make it activate on every stun/blind. Right now it just isn't worth bringing aside from the meme value.
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As long as you have a dull totem on the map it can reactivate after cleansed on a different one. Maybe after the initial 2 stuns any stun after a cleanse should activate it again if a totem is available.
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most new killer that are 10-20 hours also do not have all perks unlocked. this means that if they face Legion for example, Legion is likely to have perks like Discordance, NOED, Sloppy butcher and Spies from the shadow. New player only face this perk if they face Chucky player and chances are, the Chucky player might not equip the perk in it is current state because.... it is just useless.
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In my first 10 hours of gameplay I was really proud of myself for beating survivors with 500-600 hours on their steam profiles while 12 hooking. It happens.
I'm not sure what you mean by: "New player only face this perk if they face Chucky player and chances are, the Chucky player might not equip the perk in it is current state" We're talking about the hypothetical OP version you came up with, why would you assume the on-basic-attack version would have the same pick rate as the current weak version?
-1 -
My point still stands that you will only be facing chucky with this perk...which is like 1/33 killers. if new player loses to whatever x perk, the player has to learn from their errors, not get hand-holded. this is natural expectation when learning any new game. As new player, your expect to make dozen of countless errors and your opponent will likely make countless of dozen of errors as well. it is part of learning experience.
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Yeah no man, when you're this willful about missing my point that new players often aren't going against new players (using a personal anecdote of exactly that happening) and when you argue that "not wanting to be forced to play blindfolded after getting hit as a player who is new to this game" is getting handheld, when you expect survivor players to be able to have a complex 3d map of their exact surroundings and navigate them blindfolded with millimeter accuracy, I think we are playing fundamentally different games and there's no point continuing this discussion. Hope you have a nice day, and I hope your survivors are as cracked as you expect them to be
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That's my thought exactly.
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Hex: Face the Darkness should have this condition too.
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Survivors just predrop pallets, not blind or cleanse this totem.
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good, then it's just a meme perk. nobody cares. perks can be bad or easily countered, they are not entire characters.
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