3-Gen Situations Are Insanely Common
This doesnt even have to do with Survivors doing the wrong Generators at the wrong spots, Ive noticed on a lot of the maps that I play on, Generators have just been spawning significantly closer together.
Most of my matches just result in the Killer camping a 3-Gen with 4x Slowdown Perks until the Survivors either give up or die trying to break. Sometimes people even try to camp for the full 60-minute match timer, i.e. I had a TTV camp a 3-Gen for 52 minutes straight.
When the developers were talking about 3-Genning being an issue, they stated that Deja Vu was a good perk for countering 3-Gens, but Survivors cannot counter a 3-Gen if they dont even have it to begin with. But I think the issue is not the Generator speeds, the issue is the Generator spawn locations, since the Killer can camp a 3-Gen easily from the start with no repercussions.
There is no reason for 3 whole Generators to spawn within 16-meters of one another, sometimes even closer depending on the structure.
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There's also no reason for generators to spawn so far away, or in such survivor-sided places, that they aren't worth defending at all. That needs to be addressed too.
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Yes, both should be addressed of course, but I would prefer if 3-Gen situations are addressed first because I dont want to sit in 40 - 60 minute stalemates that accomplish nothing.
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It's weird because I feel like it's becoming more common than before.
Even when I play killer focusing on my hook spread I can end up with 3 gens in visual range of each other (swamp) or at least easily defended with just Jolt and I can't tell if it's survivor's rushing out gens and being afraid with the last, the gens or too close or if I'm actually defending them that good. And obviously it can't be JUST Jolt's value from it, I actually commit to chases even if it takes me away from the gens unless I notice a gen is getting done and survivors are clearly nearby.
At this point I think every map needs their map generation looked at and possibly rework the placements.
Edit: Surge* I keep forgetting it's Surge again.
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With reworked maps, bvhr completely screwed up generator spawns. Ive never seen gens spawning in such bad manners than on those reworked maps. I thought Glenvale and Haddonfield were bad, but then i saw those 3 gens on Ormond where you have those gens straight in a line of sight or at the corner.
And the worst is if your mates dont see them at all and just do gens randomly instead of getting rid of those 3 gens youre dying to do.
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If a killer is going to camp a three gen the entire game, they'll lose 95% of the time unless the survivors are potatoes.
It's really not that hard to break a three gen if you have four survivors left. They can't be at all three gens at the same time, and if they try to chase anyone, they lose.
If you're having problems, run Deja Vu. You get guaranteed value every game.
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On some maps this is imposible. Haddonfield and RPD are comes to mind first. Some of gens are really worthless to defend on those maps. And i don't think what changes would make them worthful to defend but i just don't see it.
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I’ve spawned into matches with ridiculous 4 gens with a 5th not that far off. I hope they look into these kind of spawns
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But you don't have to? I mean you can just approach the hook or DC. I did the former 2 days ago on Badham where Merchant was doing the 3-genning.
Other than that the issue really requires addressing.
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In general, it's the survivors fault. However, I'm not gonna lie; as a killer main, if I see the western town map has 2 gens in the field and 1 at gallows, I usually just eliminate 2 survivors then just let the last 2 go. At least I get something out of it, but otherwise it would be a non winnable game for survivors. If I'm feeling extra generous, I might just let them all win.
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I had a killer match on Garden of Joy where two generators spawned on the street less than 10 meters from each other and a couple more not far from those either, and I had Surge. I realized early on I barely had to play the map, all i had to do was camp these generators and I'd win via attrition. And the survivors absolutely did their best to break it, but when one realized how bad the spawns were, he gave up and let himself die, and after that it was just a matter of whittling down the rest.
Garden of Joy is a terrible map for killers, but with these generator spawns, it can also be a terrible map for survivors now too. This is a real problem.
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the game structured like that where some gens are more valuable than others. so no it does not need changing. generator are survivors objective so they're suppose to be far away or survivor-sided places. 30+ minute games is not suppose how the game is meant to be played. It is something that Mandy stated awhile back.
a problem is that pre-running for survivor is too strong where survivor team can refuse to die but can still threaten to do gens. The result is that killer can never commit to chases without losing a gen leading to stalemate. with 400% slower regression on survivor, the killer does eventually lose but it can take so long that its impractical game in terms of time. on arbitrary level, the killer needs to be able to slow the game down vs gen-rushing but not so much to the point that it makes game take forever. I am not sure how to nerf pre-running but dev have invented this perk called "Battery included" that gives 5% haste. Haste is good counter to pre-running but i am not convinced that this perk is good enough to counter pre-running in 3 gens especially since it only works finished gens rather than all gens. The % is a bit low so perhaps higher number like 7% or 10% might be needed.
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In the last 10 survivor games I've played, we only ended up in 2 3 gens.
One match was on Suffocation Pit with it's notorious 5 gen but the killer didn't fully commit to holding it, so we broke it early on and then continued like normal. On Ormond we gen rushed ourselves (I could have prevented this, had I been more vigilant) and ended up in a strong 3 gen too. We got through regardless, because the killer kept on chasing.
So, for me it really hasn't been so bad.
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I got a nasty 3 gen on Pale rose near the boat. While I didn’t double down on the 3 gen at the start, I realized this mid game and took out two Survivors who were constantly playing within the area, making it extremely hard for the last two players to make a comeback.
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So it's not ok if 3 gens are too close, but it's totally ok if some generators are so far away that they aren't worth defending? How is that fair? If some generators are safer than others, then there should be consequences for prioritizing them, which there currently is.
Survivors want to be able to prioritize the easy generators, and not be punished for it. That's what the whole 3 gen debate is all about. It's basically a demand for survivors to never get punished with difficult generators.
Be honest, do people really think that if survivors purposely prioritized all the easy generators, and got themselves into a 3 gen, that they would take responsibility for it, and think that's an ok situation?
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that is not what @Iron_Cutlass is talking about. he is talking about the killer purposely stalling games even though they're going lose eventually, i.e purposing attempting to take game hostage.
It's basically a demand for survivors to never get punished with difficult generators.
survivor are not suppose get to punished. they have static objective that takes static amount of time to complete. the difficult in doing objective is suppose to be surviving killer themselves, not the generator placements. the problem is that killer are not particularly difficult to survive and default generator time is too fast. As a result, killer have relied on imbalancing the survivor's generator objective due to their inadequate chase capacity and too fast objective.
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That person literally said "There is no reason for 3 whole Generators to spawn within 16-meters of one another, sometimes even closer depending on the structure". As in, the issue is how close together the generators are. Moving generators farther apart, means that survivors that are purposely targeting the easy generators, don't get punished as much.
The 3 gen solution shouldn't punish killers, in games where the survivors are literally targeting the easy generators, and purposely leaving the most difficult generators until the end of the game.
We also don't know how many people were stalling the game, as the survivors could have been excessively pre-leaving generators, excessively hiding, or running super far away to heal whenever they got hit. At which point, they were stalling the game too. We also don't know if the killer was purposely stalling for the purpose of griefing the survivors, or if they were defending a 3 gen because it's was the optimal strategy at the time, at which point people are just shaming killers for trying to win the game, and telling killers that 100% of the burden is on them to keep the game moving.
Post edited by Coffeecrashing on1 -
It's tough because the game needs to place 7 generators in each map, and besides swamp they can't place them on the map's edges. Some maps are rather small and it's difficult to NOT have at least two gens be pretty close to each other. You could make maps bigger but... well, I think that would make certain weak killers even weaker so I don't suggest that.
Don't really know how to fix this as it's not as simple as 'move the gens further apart', on certain maps there just isn't space to do that. Maybe change up how tiles spawn in so even if two gens are close to each other, they're not fast to get between? I dunno.
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If your solution is to "DC" or take a DC Penalty to avoid being in a match with something then there is objectively an issue there that must be addressed.
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can you remember the map, they stated they fixed this scenario for Léry's
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Moving generators farther apart, means that survivors that are purposely targeting the easy generators, don't get punished as much.
No, it means that you camping generators from the start as killer becomes less effective due to walking distances to kick said gens.
The 3 gen solution shouldn't punish killers, in games where the survivors are literally targeting the easy generators, and purposely leaving the most difficult generators until the end of the game.
the 3 gen problem has 0 things to do with survivor and has everything to do with how killer is playing the game. That problem being to spawn on the map, look at 3 closest gens and begin camping them from very start. The strategy is not that effective in terms of winning in most instances because electing to just kick gens over and over will lose eventually because killer regression is worse than survivor progression but it makes game take a long time to complete as survivor because your constantly being pushed off generators. For some reason, dev think that this a problem generator speed which is why they have this weird deja vu perk but it is not about speed. It is the fact the gameplay loop is like repair gen for 10% progression, killer comes to kick gen, knocks off 2.5%, regresses 1-2%, killer goes away, rince repeat. your gaining like 5-6% regression every minute. you have to do this like 15+ times to get gen from 0%->100%. @Iron_Cutlass post with generator distances is big factor to why that gameplay is occurring.
I am not sure what dev will do in regards to this gameplay.but apparently they'll do something to address this gameplay of excessively long 3 gen games.
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Just so people dont misconstrued my point (I noticed that Ive been @ a lot in the process so Im just going to explain a bit more).
Im not talking about situations in which the Survivors do Generators that result in a 3-Gen situation; since that is entirely the Survivors fault. Im talking about situations in which the Killer can easily camp a 3-Gen from the start because the spawns are way too close together.
I dont blame people for using this playstyle, it's effective, it's easy, it's strong; my issue is that I dont think BHVR's attempts to address the issue will change much since giving all Survivors basekit Deja Vu does not change the Generator spawn locations, yes Generators might be faster but the issue isnt the Generator speed but rather the Generator locations.
Likewise, I think Generator spreads should also be looked at for being too far away, since there are many maps where Generators are simply just not worth defending, most notably Garden of Joy/Dead Dawg's main building Generator is notorious for being too difficult to defend since they are put inside such safe structures while also being really out of the way.
Generator spawn locations are a delicate thing, you dont want them too close, nor do you want them too far away, you have to strike a balance with it.
Maybe it is a personal bias, but if they were to lean into either too close or too far away, I would prefer them being too far away since it leads to situations in which the match ends faster instead of 40-60 minute stalemates; of course, ideally things shouldnt be too far away or too close, but we are not in an ideal situation seeing how this is a topic we are discussing to begin with.
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