We're Gonna Live Forever should change.

Vert3x

As the Winter Solstice Double Bloodpoints event demonstrated to the community,

In its current state, WGLF is a debatable perk because of how much it still encourages farming survivors off the hook and yolo-saving in general by tanking lethal hits just to gain as many tokens as possible.

The old intervention that developers made on this perk:
Patch 1.7.0 - 14 September 2017

This change possibly discouraged the intense level of farming, but still I feel like it just needs to get easier to get your 100% bonus bloodpoints, because in its current state you just gotta riskily force survivors off the hooks and get hits over hits in order to obtain the full bonus, and that's what incentives the whole farming thing.

I'm on a first place gonna admit that I'm myself one of the people that is really farmish with this perk on (I use Borrowed Time most times, but it's still farming), and I also do tank lethal hits just to keep on tiering it up.
It's a perk that leads to a somewhat toxic atmosphere, and that could potentially ruin the game for survivors that aren't themselves running it, but that have someone in their team that wants to quickly gain tokens with it.

The change that I have in mind would be quite neat:
the perk should be made so that you only have to gain 2 tokens to reach 100% bonus bloodpoints (1 token should be worth a 50% stackable bonus instead of 25%, the current value), but unlike the first version of the perk, you should have your cap right there, you shouldn't be able to go past 2 tokens / 100% bonus points.

With this idea, you can make it easier to reach your target cap and you can just start playing more carefully after you get to it, or, with a more optimistic view of this change in action, I would say that it's generally more likely to get to perform some genuine altruistic actions a couple of times, whether it's an unhook or a protection hit, without forcing it like one's got to do in the current state of the perk.

pemberley

It would be nice if wglf also contributed to heals (so it can have more play with we’ll make it and autodidact and botany) and maybe even completing gens...cause you ain’t gonna live forever if gens ain’t done.

Vert3x

@pemberley said:
It would be nice if wglf also contributed to heals (so it can have more play with we’ll make it and autodidact and botany) and maybe even completing gens...cause you ain’t gonna live forever if gens ain’t done.

The problem is that the lore of the perk is about protecting your friends from contexts where the killer is actively intervening too, sure it should only be about Altruism so Generators should not even be close to counting as tokens, but even completing healing actions is kind of out of track for what the perk's designed to be.

Ariancool

The Devs have talked about this in a dev stream some months ago and they said that they would apply a change to "We are gonna live forever" like they did to the unhooking action (an "unsafe" unhook only awards you with 1000 BP (Bloodpoints) instead of 1500 BP and you lose points in the Benevolence category). The change they talked about was about the unhooking action. The same way you lose BP if you do an unsafe unhook same with Benevolence points, you would also lose you the WGLF (We're Gonna Live Forever) stack that you earned from that unhook. Unfortunately that change has not made it to the game yet and I don't think it ever will so that's why I stopped using Borrowed Time or BT because I care more about bloodpoints than rank.

Tru3Lemon

@Ariancool said:
The Devs have talked about this in a dev stream some months ago and they said that they would apply a change to "We are gonna live forever" like they did to the unhooking action (an "unsafe" unhook only awards you with 1000 BP (Bloodpoints) instead of 1500 BP and you lose points in the Benevolence category). The change they talked about was about the unhooking action. The same way you lose BP if you do an unsafe unhook same with Benevolence points, you would also lose you the WGLF (We're Gonna Live Forever) stack that you earned from that unhook. Unfortunately that change has not made it to the game yet and I don't think it ever will so that's why I stopped using Borrowed Time or BT because I care more about bloodpoints than rank.

more nerf points on survivor? wow they should buff instead of nerfing alot since killers get like 2xBP with BBQ

Vert3x

@Tru3Lemon said:

@Ariancool said:
The Devs have talked about this in a dev stream some months ago and they said that they would apply a change to "We are gonna live forever" like they did to the unhooking action (an "unsafe" unhook only awards you with 1000 BP (Bloodpoints) instead of 1500 BP and you lose points in the Benevolence category). The change they talked about was about the unhooking action. The same way you lose BP if you do an unsafe unhook same with Benevolence points, you would also lose you the WGLF (We're Gonna Live Forever) stack that you earned from that unhook. Unfortunately that change has not made it to the game yet and I don't think it ever will so that's why I stopped using Borrowed Time or BT because I care more about bloodpoints than rank.

more nerf points on survivor? wow they should buff instead of nerfing alot since killers get like 2xBP with BBQ

Punishing farmers is actually a good idea, the only thing about it is that it should be easier to tier it up.

JammyJewels

Or... how about this.

You can gain 100% extra blood points by completing actions as you would now, taking hits and saving people.

BUT the change I would propose is giving another added percentage, perhaps also going to 100%, based on your Altruism emblem.

Vert3x

@JammyJewels said:
Or... how about this.

You can gain 100% extra blood points by completing actions as you would now, taking hits and saving people.

BUT the change I would propose is giving another added percentage, perhaps also going to 100%, based on your Altruism emblem.

That truly doesn't work, it's still based off the standard 4 tokens that one struggles to gain, I think that should be suppressed on a first place.

Dehitay

@Vert3x said:

@pemberley said:
It would be nice if wglf also contributed to heals (so it can have more play with we’ll make it and autodidact and botany) and maybe even completing gens...cause you ain’t gonna live forever if gens ain’t done.

The problem is that the lore of the perk is about protecting your friends from contexts where the killer is actively intervening too, sure it should only be about Altruism so Generators should not even be close to counting as tokens, but even completing healing actions is kind of out of track for what the perk's designed to be.

The lore says "Your few friends deserve the best protection." That would mean that rescues also don't fit. Personally, I think getting WGLF stacks from healing survivors a health state would be one of the best changes gameplay wise cause you also don't have to fight with other survivors since more than one person can heal in contrast to only one person being able to unhook.

Trial_By_Scythe

I think a person should only get their stack of WGLF when they get the safe unhook bonus. It's terrible to get shamefully farmed for someone's stacks with no consequences.

That_One_Scrub

OK, is it just me, or is the solution VERY simple here?

Just change the condition from 'gain token on unhook' to 'gain token on safe unhook.' Then, increase rate of return and/or number of actions that can give tokens if needed. @Dehitay and @Trial_By_Scythe have the right idea.

Delfador

@That_One_Scrub said:
OK, is it just me, or is the solution VERY simple here?

Just change the condition from 'gain token on unhook' to 'gain token on safe unhook.' Then, increase rate of return and/or number of actions that can give tokens if needed. @Dehitay and @Trial_By_Scythe have the right idea.

I agree with you.

Instead of gaining 1 token from unhooks, survivors should gain 2 tokens only from one safe unhook. Heck, it might even incentives survivors to use borrowed time along with WGLF.

I also think that healing actions should give you tokens. It is difficult to get tokens anyway due to too many varying conditions.

TheLegendDyl4n1

@Vert3x said:
As the Winter Solstice Double Bloodpoints event demonstrated to the community,

In its current state, WGLF is a debatable perk because of how much it still encourages farming survivors off the hook and yolo-saving in general by tanking lethal hits just to gain as many tokens as possible.

The old intervention that developers made on this perk:
Patch 1.7.0 - 14 September 2017

This change possibly discouraged the intense level of farming, but still I feel like it just needs to get easier to get your 100% bonus bloodpoints, because in its current state you just gotta riskily force survivors off the hooks and get hits over hits in order to obtain the full bonus, and that's what incentives the whole farming thing.

I'm on a first place gonna admit that I'm myself one of the people that is really farmish with this perk on (I use Borrowed Time most times, but it's still farming), and I also do tank lethal hits just to keep on tiering it up.
It's a perk that leads to a somewhat toxic atmosphere, and that could potentially ruin the game for survivors that aren't themselves running it, but that have someone in their team that wants to quickly gain tokens with it.

The change that I have in mind would be quite neat:
the perk should be made so that you only have to gain 2 tokens to reach 100% bonus bloodpoints (1 token should be worth a 50% stackable bonus instead of 25%, the current value), but unlike the first version of the perk, you should have your cap right there, you shouldn't be able to go past 2 tokens / 100% bonus points.

With this idea, you can make it easier to reach your target cap and you can just start playing more carefully after you get to it, or, with a more optimistic view of this change in action, I would say that it's generally more likely to get to perform some genuine altruistic actions a couple of times, whether it's an unhook or a protection hit, without forcing it like one's got to do in the current state of the perk.

no they should just add an extra ability like BBQ and chilli has

se05239

Or you could also get a token for fully healing a fellow survivor?
A minor nerf so that you don't get tokens for hook rescues but for SAFE hook rescues.
WGLF would be in a pretty solid state.

Vert3x

Yeah, sure only Safe Unhooks should count as tokens.
Back in the days when they separated the Bloodpoint earnings from unhooking a survivor into "Unhook" +1000 and "Safe Unhook" +500, they mentioned We're Gonna Live Forever as one of the primary reasons why they wanted things to change, but it eventually wasn't affected whatsoever and people keep on farming with it on.

It feels like it was an idea that they had in mind and that they ended up forgetting about or they just left it as is and gave it a very low priority for any evolution of its effects.
Just think about it, shouldn't the Bloodpoint earnings from the Unhooking action itself be inverted to be +500 "Unhook" and +1000 "Safe Unhook"? It'd make twice as sense.

Also, to be totally honest, sometimes you get punished too much as well with the Emblems system because of tunneling/camping killers.
I believe that if there is a non-sportive gamer as your opponent, he should be the punished one rather than any teammate that fails into helping you out of a lame situation like that.

The reason why I'm saying this is that I sometimes found myself performing some so-called unsafe unhooks and being punished with the Benevolent emblem because the killer was a tunneling nurse that just kept her blink charged from the distance and made me think that she was going away instead of coming back and downing the same survivor that just got rescued.

And even shittier situations may occur, just think about any Insidious camper and tunneler, what's the point of punishing survivors if it's the killer playing like a baby? Also, I don't honestly get the point of that perk being still in the game like since its only usage is camping, but that's another argument.

@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:

@Vert3x said:
As the Winter Solstice Double Bloodpoints event demonstrated to the community,

In its current state, WGLF is a debatable perk because of how much it still encourages farming survivors off the hook and yolo-saving in general by tanking lethal hits just to gain as many tokens as possible.

The old intervention that developers made on this perk:
Patch 1.7.0 - 14 September 2017

This change possibly discouraged the intense level of farming, but still I feel like it just needs to get easier to get your 100% bonus bloodpoints, because in its current state you just gotta riskily force survivors off the hooks and get hits over hits in order to obtain the full bonus, and that's what incentives the whole farming thing.

I'm on a first place gonna admit that I'm myself one of the people that is really farmish with this perk on (I use Borrowed Time most times, but it's still farming), and I also do tank lethal hits just to keep on tiering it up.
It's a perk that leads to a somewhat toxic atmosphere, and that could potentially ruin the game for survivors that aren't themselves running it, but that have someone in their team that wants to quickly gain tokens with it.

The change that I have in mind would be quite neat:
the perk should be made so that you only have to gain 2 tokens to reach 100% bonus bloodpoints (1 token should be worth a 50% stackable bonus instead of 25%, the current value), but unlike the first version of the perk, you should have your cap right there, you shouldn't be able to go past 2 tokens / 100% bonus points.

With this idea, you can make it easier to reach your target cap and you can just start playing more carefully after you get to it, or, with a more optimistic view of this change in action, I would say that it's generally more likely to get to perform some genuine altruistic actions a couple of times, whether it's an unhook or a protection hit, without forcing it like one's got to do in the current state of the perk.

no they should just add an extra ability like BBQ and chilli has

WGLF is not designed to give you anything but Bloodpoints, it's similar to BBQ but it isn't meant to be the same, on a first place BBQ is a killer perk, WGLF is a survivor perk, so it makes sense that even when counterpart of each other, perks should have some downsides when it comes down to the survivors' version.

All it needs is to grant you your 100% bonus Bloodpoints faster and better, it currently clearly just gives an incentive to farm your teammates and you generally still struggle to get your tokens up to four.

pemberley

I just wish there were more options than having to fight for the hook or feeling like you’re throwing yourself into danger just to make sure you get your full stacks. 

t3hp0larbear

Well, let's factor in that people need to realize that David is supposed to be geared towards earning Boldness BP and Evader emblems, with a little Altruism/Benevolent on the side. People shouldn't be playing with David's perks unless they can juke and loop reliably. I mean, look at the concept of the perks: The take-a-hit benefit of WGLF and No Mither in its entirety are intended to make David into a target, and Dead Hard is supposed to supplement loops and jukes by buying you precious seconds when the killer is closing in on a chase (whether or not the perks actually do these things in practice, however, is an entirely different story).

I like that idea of a token being earned only on a safe unhook. Lately I've had issues with overly altruistic survivors obsessing over unhooks instead of realizing that you have 20 seconds after a hook on average to do anything but rescue them and not hit the end of the ohase. If this perk helped call attention to the difference between safe an unsafe hook rescues, that would benefit everyone.

With that, the taking-a-hit mechanic would be icing on the cake. Because if you make the decision to block a fatal hit and the survivor gets away, then you just got two tokens for ensuring a safe rescue.

Vert3x

@pemberley said:
I just wish there were more options than having to fight for the hook or feeling like you’re throwing yourself into danger just to make sure you get your full stacks. 

More than exactly what I am aiming at, I'm throwing in some ideas because I'm afraid on how developers would solve this themselves, and in general without any actual change in mind, this thread would've been quite empty. I'm quite sure that most of the community aims at what you just said.

@t3hp0larbear said:
Well, let's factor in that people need to realize that David is supposed to be geared towards earning Boldness BP and Evader emblems, with a little Altruism/Benevolent on the side. People shouldn't be playing with David's perks unless they can juke and loop reliably. I mean, look at the concept of the perks: The take-a-hit benefit of WGLF and No Mither in its entirety are intended to make David into a target, and Dead Hard is supposed to supplement loops and jukes by buying you precious seconds when the killer is closing in on a chase (whether or not the perks actually do these things in practice, however, is an entirely different story).

I like that idea of a token being earned only on a safe unhook. Lately I've had issues with overly altruistic survivors obsessing over unhooks instead of realizing that you have 20 seconds after a hook on average to do anything but rescue them and not hit the end of the ohase. If this perk helped call attention to the difference between safe an unsafe hook rescues, that would benefit everyone.

With that, the taking-a-hit mechanic would be icing on the cake. Because if you make the decision to block a fatal hit and the survivor gets away, then you just got two tokens for ensuring a safe rescue.

That's the reason why I don't want it to be heal-based, and I rather would want to see it working the same way as now, just counting Safe Unhooks instead of unsafe ones and capping your tokens at 2, having them count 50% each, therefore reaching 100% bonus Bloodpoints with only 2 actions like Safe Unhooks or tanking hits instead of 4, which is quite unlikely and mostly requires you to just yolo save and suic1de into a farmy hook rescue so that you take a couple of hits and get the unhook all together to get as many tokens as possible.