I'm getting tired of Windows of Opportunity
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Agree to disagree I guess. I saw insane numbers of threads and tweets about Eruption, far more than all the complaints about WoO combined.
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Right, so, if the survivor shift+w and uses no pallet, no window and just runs directly to a corner of the map, it takes the killer 54 seconds to hook them. Now factor in "going from pallet to pallet" and you just predrop 2 god pallets, and now the killer has spent 84 seconds. A third, and now they spend 99 seconds. So again. If the person is going "from pallet to pallet" how are you not finishing 3/5 of your objective during that time and then body blocking where relevant?
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If the person is going against a nurse, i don't count nurse in any calculations. She isn't even playing dead by daylight and you should never look at nurse for balance decisions that affect anything other than reworking her entirely.
If the person is going against an anti-loop killer. You predrop the pallet (which this person is complaining that their team is doing) and you shift+w to a corner of the map, this is true if it is (Pinhead, Huntress, PH, Deathslinger, Trickster, demo, nemesis) etc.
If the person is NOT going against an anti-loop killer, that killer must now break the pallet, buying you that 15 seconds. Barring you get unlucky and run into like a trapper trap or something. But i wouldn't count trapper in these calculations either as he is effectively entirely RNG based.
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Ok, but you're completely disregarding perks, items, add ons, map, hell even the current situation will have an impact on decision making on both sides. No killer or survivor, regardless of any of the above is going to travel in a perfect straight line. Not to mention your calculations are already nullified the moment a Survivor reaches something even remotely close to a loop since they can hug it tighter than killers.
Math will never show the full picture of what actually goes on in a game, and if you're so adamant about it I'd love for you to give me an example
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That's like saying "ugh, I hate urban evasion because my teammates are just using it to crouch walk at the edge of the map". What you are describing is a player problem, not a perk problem.
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Do gens? I mean they use everything and still go down fast? If the killer is in chase long enough for those pesky survivors to use everything on the map and the others can't finish 5 gens it sounds like a different kind of problem other than windows of opportunity.
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I am, and i'm saying none of that matters because when every survivor plays this way you will never end up in a "situation" that makes this play bad and will basically guarantee at least a 3 man escape.
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Clearly it does matter, since the absolute highest level of play still sees swiffers lose plenty. Shroompy is right, flat math will never fully grasp the complexity of the game.
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Tell that to Hex: Ruin :)
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It definitely guarantee's a 3 man escape if you're doing a whole ass math equation in the middle of a match.
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Ghostface.
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I'm just gonna post what I always post in regards to this perk.
It serves 3 main functions:
- learn maps
- show the location of dropped and unused pallets
- make chase run on autopilot
I'm fine with 2 of them. You however seem to dislike the 3rd. Nice! I do as well.
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Do you mean the 6.1 buffed Eruption that left survivors incapacitated for 30s? Because even the devs agreed that was ridiculous and pretty much got rid of Incapacitated after that.
Also, no one complained about STBFL. In fact, when the devs announced they were reworking it people were asking why when no one had seen any complaints about it. So not a fan of this sudden 'survivors complained so it's getting reworked' narrative, when everyone agreed initially that there were zero complaints. Suddenly there were? News to me...
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Even that can be considered a chase power. No red stain, going down in one hit and his ability to crouch to avoid being seen definitely help. On top of that he has the ability to sneak up on survivors and force them to play around the first loop they get to because they have little distance.
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They said anti-loop, though, not chase. Ghosty, Meyers, even Wraith, don't have anti-loop.
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He specified "There is not a single killer in the game that cannot use their power for a little bit of an extra edge in a loop." To which he correct in that its technically fact. Each one has something that can give an edge in looping, even if poorly.
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or you need to do gens while someone is in chase instead of runing around doing nothing.
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Let me rephrase it then: "Even that can be considered an anti loop power."
Myers has the ability to vault faster and lunge further, which should not be ignored. It's not good but it is in his kit and it does help in loops. Especially around maze tiles.
Wraith has his extended lunge. Again, not good but it helps.
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Your argument is a stretch but it’s clear you’re committed to being wrong, so..
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Anti-loop means denying the loop, not potentially ‘edging a survivor out’ during a loop sequence. Anti-loop powers exist to functionally shut down loops—impacting them in a major way. A minor inconvenience isn’t anti-loop. Myers, Wraith, and Ghostface literally slow down or stop to use their powers at loop, which gives survivors more of an edge at the loop.
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The fact that WoO is the most complained about perk rn shows the game is actually in a pretty balanced spot, at least when it comes to perks.
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Yes, the 6.1 Eruption. I completely agree that it was too much, I was just stating that both survivors and killers complain about good perks.
And after the 6.1 buff that basically gave all killers 2 stacks of STBFL basekit I saw quite a few threads complaining about every killer now bringing STBFL and how they need to nerf it. I'll admit I've seen less of them over the past couple months but in the immediate aftermatch of the 6.1 patch there was a lot of people unhappy with STBFL.
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That's your definition and we simply stated what THEY said and how in their terms it's technically true.
And if we may be so bold, GF doesn't need to stop to turn off the red stain, Myers can already be in T3 when they start a chase so he doesn't need to stop, and wraith can straight up body block loops much easier than other killers.
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While there’s no official classification system for killer powers (as in endorsed by BHVR), what I stated is the widely accepted definition of what “anti-loop” means. Xernoton’s definition is fringe. Most players would not describe any of those killers mentioned as anti-loop; see m1 killer vs. anti-loop killer.
Also the ghostface’s power is the stalking. So is Myer’s, and both stop (technically Myer’s slows down) to activate these abilities. The insta-downs are byproducts of successfully using their powers. Wraith can block a loop yes but *slows down* to uncloak so that he can actually interact with a survivor. Not a single one of these are anti-loop abilities.
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Since we're talking about their terms we dont get your point.
Ghostface has more than just stalking as part of his power and going cloaked doesn't stop him (don't think crouching stops him either). Myers power has stalking true but thats to lvl up evil within, which is part of the power. In lvl 3 meyers has a longer lunge with a 1 shot down (or kill depending) and lower vault time (and looking at the wiki apparently lvl 2 does as well) meaning you must play the loops differently than say GF. Don't know bout you but preventing a survivor from jumping down that chute in the Game shuts down that loop real quick for us.
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1.) You three (I think that’s how many of you there are, correct me if I’m wrong?) jumped in to white knight someone with a bad take, and you’re clueless now because you don’t really know the context of the discussion. Probably because you skipped my first post.
2.) I can’t be bothered to read whatever else you’ve produced beyond that first sentence. It’s irrelevant to me now.
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Why should it be altered?
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1: Just because its bad does not mean wrong . Feels kinda funny being called white knight knowing how often we make survivors suffer for their mistakes XD (yes your correct in 3). Is the first post this:
"DBD has anti-loop killers because players wanted killers that could more easily handle loops. But survivors still need some way to counter that; hence pre-drop and run (although to be fair that’s not a sure-fire way to escape an anti-loop killer)."
which then leads to this (we need a better way of doing this):
"Wrong. There has never been a killer (maybe except old Wraith) without any kind of anti loop power. This has always been a part of DBD's killer design.
Sadako is a great example of what happens when a killer doesn't have a good chase power. They have to double down on everything else in their kit to build pressure somehow and it ends up pretty unfun to play against.
Also, the killers that are generally considered the most fun to play against are all killers with (in theory) oppressive chase powers. Blight, Demo, Oni, Bubba, Huntress and Billy come to mind."
And if you don't mind us skipping around so we dont make this miles long:
"I'm saying that the term "anti loop killer" is inaccurate. There is not a single killer in the game that cannot use their power for a little bit of an extra edge in a loop. That is not a hot take but a fact. Name one exception, I'll wait."
Which is where we can say that "There is not a single killer in the game that cannot use their power for a little bit of an extra edge in a loop." is technically factually correct, despite how little it does.
2: Is examples of how it works
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Since when are your chases taking 99 seconds and you have not abandoned that particular chase?
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When you abandon chase what happens? The survivor you stopped chasing hops on a gen, and then you spend time not chasing someone and locating a different survivor to chase, who now does the same thing. You actually waste MORE time by abandoning chase against efficient teams. Against inefficient teams its probably the most OP strat you can employ but in this situation we are talking about efficient teams.
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Part of the 101 skill of killer is knowing when to ditch a chase. Sometimes the survivor is not in a good area in terms of gen pressure or the setups are simply too strong. You as a killer against any kind of team need to actually look at the situation and make that call, since even against a mediocre survivor with a busted setup, your chases will take like 2 mins which is game loosing. As a very basic and obvious example at the start of a match if you have corrupt, it is better to take a chase around the unblocked gens rather than around the blocked ones.
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You are thinking about it in terms of what i like to call "normal" survivors. Ones who take just a LITTLE bit longer to find a gen, or they make poor decisions about which generators to work on, or they are spending a little time doing other things like totems, or healing against sloppy butcher.
I'm talking about high level survivors. The ones like Ayrun, and hens, and the like. When played at the absolute highest level, only 1 killer is viable and that is the nurse.
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Yes but how often are you queuing into ayrun in a average pub match? I feel like using the absolute top 10k hour survivors as an example is a poor one.
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Sure, and how often are you running into a god nurse as well?
Lets put it this way:
Do you:
1) Balance the game around average level players
2) Balance the game around top level players
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