Is the Xenomorph a well designed killer?
This question doesn’t refer to the actual strength of the killer, I think the power is pretty balanced and while the counterplay for survivors may not be the most interesting, it’s still pretty fair.
I’m interested whether the community thinks the power fits the character or not. Personally when the Xenomorph first released, I wasn’t a fan of the tail attack being the “main power”. And a lot of people seemed very disappointed as well. It just felt so out of character for them, because, at least in the first movie, the alien is a stealth killer, silently approaching their victims, and not a brutal killing machine as it’s portrayed in the game.
But thinking of alternatives, I couldn’t find gameplay options that wouldn’t cause problems. A lot of people wanted to see face huggers being a part of the power, but I think this would have caused similar problems as we’ve seen with pig in the past, with it being either too strong or underpowered like the current version of pig.
I also thought about focusing more on the gameplay that comes with the underground tunnels, and giving the Xenomorph the ability to ambush survivors from the control stations, but I think this would require more control stations around the map to actually be viable, however this could also lead to boring gameplay on the survivor side as well as confusion on the killer side, as navigating inside the tunnels can be disorienting sometimes. It would also increase the RNG factor.
So I think in the end what we got is actually a good compromise between some sort of stealth gameplay and interaction between the killer side and the survivor side. The expectations of such a big license were probably too high so for some disappointment was probably inevitable.
So what do you guys think? Is the Xenomorph a well designed killer or did the devs failed to create a power fitting the license?
Comments
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What qualifies as 'well designed'?
Like many killers, Xenomorph's tail attack is not easy to aim on controller. You will miss a lot of hits that a PC player wouldn't simply due to fighting your own joystick sensitivity. This means that the penalty gor a missed tail attack is disproportionate for console players.
That kind of discrepancy isn't the result of good design.
Secondly you have turrets. These are big game changers, that either destroy the killers power or do nothing, but once again disproportionately affect console users (harder to hit with tail). Turrets are either useless against a decent PC Xenomorph who can hit every turret, or oppressive against Xenomorphs who struggle to hit them. This makes for a relatively high skill floor just to use your main lethal power.
Before the change to the tail attack cooldown, he was actually in a decent place for me. But was apparently too powerful in the hands of PC players. Now the penalty for missing a tail attack, on a survivor or turret, is too prohibitive to actually use it.
I wish he had better stealth capabilities to make up for it, but a 24m TR is still far too big.
If it was a 16m TR it would be pretty decent. I could play him as a semi stealth killer, where even though I'm ignoring my M2 (and therefore turrets are "useless") the turrets would still serve as a counter in giving away my presence.
I'd settle for 'alternative power' add ons (like mirror myers, or pallet freddy) which disable tail attacks in exchange for no TR when in crawler mode.
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I think the flame turrets kill the pacing of the trial. If you're facing a decent Xenomorph, you always need to have turrets set up. And if you're facing good survivors, they'll always have turrets set up. The games just kind of devolve into a turret simulator. You're constantly breaking them as killer and setting them up multiple times per game on survivor.
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I don't know how it feels to play him, but playing against him isn't the experience of going against a well designed killer.
Overall, it is safe to say the community was tired of anti-loop killers, because chases without mindgames simply aren't fun. Xeno seems to be the peak of that specific type of killer.
The turrets are a weird addition because they can either be useless or extremely effective. They are not always going to be effective at slowing him down, but without them the situation is far more dangerous because every window and pallet can give him a potential hit.
I think this killer should have been stealthy. Sounds better than what we got.
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Yes and no?
Depends on your definition of "well designed". There is no objective opinion on the matter, so saying that something is poorly designed or well designed is hard to judge.
I'd say, yes. It's a fun killer to play as and for some also to face. Outplaying a Xeno can feel incredibly rewarding. Like luring a beast into a trap. No other killer offers that kind of gameplay. Personally I like it, but that's just me.
One thing is can say for sure: Xeno has a ton more counterplay than pre2019 Spirit.
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yes
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What edgar said + xeno is just better nemi.
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I don't think so, Xeno basically takes the power of 3-4 other killers, combines them into it's power and goes with it. It's power is essentially the combination of slinger/nemesis for the tail and demi/sadako for the tunnels. Xeno also is slapped with the 115% speed a little bit of stealth when in crawler, also the turrets work ~10% of the time maybe less so you're mostly dealing with a 115% ranged killer with stealth and map presence who can also find survivors hiding while in tunnels.
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Tail feels awful to use, I feel less punished for missing when I play Deathslinger.
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You could always just run monitor and abuse for a 16m terror radius killer?
Also people sleep on the cat carrier addon, and it gets ranked low on every addon tier list I have seen for whatever reason.
I usually run that and monitor and it does basically get you a pseudo stealth killer. Depending on the map it's actually incredibly useful to get burned by the turrets and I will find myself looking for them to get another stealth boost at times. Then usually emergency bolts and brutal strength so you are a beast in chase with the power or temporarily a stealth M1 killer who can still chase pretty well because of brutal.
Xeno is also one of the better trail of torment users, since he can kick a gen in the corner of the map then show up somewhere else entirely with the stealth a few seconds later.
There's plenty of options to play him heavily geared towards stealth but people need it to be a braindead button to hit like Chucky I guess
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IMO the only well designed killer in the game is Oni.
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I think the design is really good, a lot of people wanted more but it would have been awful, facehuggers would be a mess, a power like pig either too strong or too weak + it's clearly not the focus, they aimed for an Alien line in Alien isolation, not the ovomorph, facehuggers or either lifestate, they brought us the Xenomorph itself so i clearly see why the rest was putted aside. Walking on the walls or the ceiling is, accurate yes but ridiculous, seriously, people, this concept would be just like nurse, a power sonbroken at it's core it would be heavily limited and sluggished to make up for it, it would have been way worse. It's important to remember that this creature is hard to implement, what we got is a good balance for what dbd is capable of.
Dbd cannot deliver an Alien with it's full might just like it cannot give us an accurate Nemesis. Most of the licensed killers are not accurate to their real power (Nemesis, PH, Pinhead, Wesker for some exemples). The difference is that except for Nemesis, the others were not hyped at all (for the vast majority not everyone of course). What i want to show by that is that the liberties taken and the opportunities missed are not picked up by players because theses characters are obscure and niche:
Wesker is way more competent and lethal than it's dbd iteration (he has a dash so je is saved but still) the uroboros is nothing like the real utoboros. They adapated him.
Nemesis, i'll let you see TheDarkTyrant rants, they are great
Pyramid head, honestly, hat's off, this character has nothing in it's game, not even the base speed, some it is entirely new
Pinhead with plastic chains and a box that does something that it never did in any movies, entirely nerfed and new, they adapted him.
But since theses characters (except Nemesis), they did not suffer from expectations that high.
I've been playing dbd for a while now, and i like to create concepts (i have like 13 now) so naturally i go watch some others people concepts to see what they cooked, and i almost never saw PH, Cenobite or Wesker. RE was popular of course, but with Nemesis/Mr X/Dimitrescu/Birkin/Jack (must be the remakes + re7-8 launching, Wesker was not that popular at all).
Today Wesker is considered peak, good design and now everyone loves him, he is now popular, people even outside of dbd likes him while they were indifferent before. He grew from niche charismatic villain to superpopular (im talking in the dbd community not in general, wesker is a well knowed villain in the "horror scene").
What makes Wesker a "good design":
- Voice lines (has a little part in it)
- Chase music (has a little part in it)
- Dash attack (very high part)
- Ability to throw and slam survivors (unique part)
- Multiple exploits/techs or whatever you call them adding skill and fun (really high)
- A freedom, low CD, great mobility, the ability to pop over pallets or windows, the natural ability to CATCH UP and counter the massive W (really high)
The Alien got the reverse treatment, it was an hyped chararacter since the very first licensed IP coming, Halloween.
Today we got it and everyone is disapointed, because of 3 things:
- We wanted somehing else (with such versatility and creativity in the creature, we could have had 3 or 4 different kits that worked easily). Expectations were tremendously high, maybe the highest of them all.
- It's a mid ranged attack and everyone hate that at it's very core plus nobody learned the counterplay with the turrets anyway. Even today i still see turrets placed in front of the stations everytime i face an Alien.
- A strong traumatism at the launch while it was bugged, this is also key, in the ptb, the feedback was super positive but the first impression in the live was very PTSD inducing for a lot of players (myself included, i found it ridiculous).
Xenomorph is for me an almost perfect design, it is strong, a good balance between what we wanted and what could behaviour do with the IP i was waiting for all this time.
IF Xeno had a dash attack replacing it's tail attack, it would have been one of the most played killer right now, it has nothing to do with the IP, it's a fact, people loves dashes, almost every characters with a dash is "balanced, great design, fun to play, fun to verse" and we are going to see why:
Take Wesker, the CD when missing a dash is 1.5 but you have the distance since he will go far away most of the times, now take Nemesis or Xenomorph, when they miss, they have a big CD, but they are right next to you, so it feels like them missing is not problematic, the thing is, there is a problem with the very concept of a mid ranged attack and this is the ultimate flaw with Xenomorph.
Huntress is the only ranged killer that people usually likes, because she can try, that's the word, try. She can try to hit you over the map and she can also zone you. Why is she considered good design ? Because people will go for snipe shots most of the times and you as a survivor will feel like she deserve the hit because it was a good play. A huntress that catchs up is horrendous to verse, by the time you have taken the first hit, she will already lift up the other hatchet and you will still be having the speed boost from the first hit...
Xenomorph and Nemesis cannot try, they simply cannot, their power is limited to such a low range that you have to catch up (boring) to be in your "power range". This is BS, because survivors will want to run to stay away from the power zone, thus leaving every loops and you will desperatly want to interact with them and play your power. Creating an horrendous loop of boredom, due to their limitation, their powers are strong but limited, they do not have the freedom of Wesker, Blight or Huntress. They are cluncky and limited, so for most players, unfun.
Also you, as a survivor cannot interact with the unique and incredible part of it's kit, the tunnels and that is a massive shame, plus with the motion tracker, the previsibility of it's mobility (like i said, lack of freedom) and the nature of it's m2, ive seen a lot of players just prerunning me, which makes my games really miserables.
Xenomorph has a very great design on paper, it's power was really well thinked:
The tunnels with the footsetps, a mobility that is very great, the turrets being super fun as survivors and the tail being really great to have some unique hits but, Xenomorph like all killer with such an attack will be disliked, because this is the fate of this type of power. Replace it with a dash like chucky, an "ambush" and boom you have corrected the killer.
I agree that it would have been better, they clearly took the Alien:Isolation route with it's animation and even the power logic:
Xenomorph is in the vents, detects someone, drops on him, chase him with a almost no counterplay (in AI, you are dead when it drops on you) and you can counter it with fire.
At the end of the day, i think what we got is very solid, it's sad to see such an icon be hated by almost everyone, it's disapointing, maybe it should have never come to dbd in the first place. I am overjoyed with this charcater that i wanted for too long, i loved every matchs against it, and plays almost only it for now. For me it's the best chapter we ever had, up there woth Silent Hill.
PS: I would like some opinions on this: Are Xenomorph tunnels great ?
I'll explain: When i watch a Xeno player or play against it, they usually use the tunnels at the beginning and after that, it's over. This is because Xenomorph can usually just walk to their objectives and it's much faster than walking to a control station and going in a fixed location, almost everytime not where you want. And that's something i really dislike.
So for you all, are the tunnels actually great lr are you just playing a mid ranged attack killer that can get burned.
I play too much into my tunnels and i think it's costing me.
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Yes that’s the main problem, especially since missed attacks slow you down for that long+ the increased cooldown.
The turrets are by far too annoying compared to his strength. Huntress doesn‘t have to deal with this and she can be far stronger.
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I like the design of the characters but I don't like when it automatically switches to crawler mode. It disoriented me and I need to get my bearings.
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For the sake of writing a more streamlined response instead of a novel, I would personally say: -
- Theme/Lore Accuracy: 8.5/10. The turrets serving as both a proximity sensor and powerful deterent is very true to the Alien and Aliens films. The fire does disorientate and push back the Xeno, but doesnt stop it. The tunnel network also mirrors Xenos appearances in both films really well. The tail is a dangerous weapon of the Xeno, shown regularly throughout both films to be a dangerous tool for catching and pinning down targets. It only loses a few points because it can't climb walls and we don't have face huggers... but both of those things are probably not good for DBD.
- Balance (Power Strength/Counterplay): 8/10. The Xeno combines multiple abilities together to be potent, without being overly oppressive in any particular area. It has good map presense, very good anti-loop, ok tracking that offers decent skill expression. It has good counterplay where smart use of use turrets can force out of crawler mode and/or gain distance; there are reasonable mind games vs. It's scary tail Power that are sufficiently rewarded. It only loses points as some hitboxes are rather frustrating for Xeno, and the movement speed debuff is quite heavily punishing (a halfway between 1.25 and 2.25 slow might be nice)
- Add-ons: 8/10. Got some nice options here, won't go deep at all, but you have some nice tricky options to Bamboozle, you have some helpful ones for new/console players vs. the turrets, got some decent options to aid your detection abilities. Pallet stun iri add on is a little weird... but if you expect to be turreted often can catch someone our the first time, so nothing sticks out as complete trash.
- Aesthetic: 10/10. Exceptional, killer looks great both at base and for all its skins. Mori is great. Spotting it charging after you in crawler mode, tail raised is definitely a "Oh crap" moment.
- Fun/Accessibility: 7/10. Is a little rough on console. Not untenable as usually you can focus on making hits during animation locks well enough, but flicks and tight hits are frustrating with teh afformentioned hitbox issues, and if you miss hitting a turret with your tail you really feel it. That said it's the usual console/PC disparity, and as usual there are add-ons that console killers can take to help them remain reasonably potent, if not quite getting everything that Xeno can do in a skilled PC players hands. Some frustration points, but overall is enjoyable.
Overall I'd say: 8.3/10
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I absolutely love ToT on space kitty.
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After the nerf that made the tail a little clunky to use I've barely seen any Xenos. Like literally maybe 2 or 3 since that change. If they were well designed I don't think the killer would have been abandoned by the playerbase to such a degree.
They're not even weak. When I go against them, their tail can put the survivor in a lose-lose situation at pallets where it doesn't matter if you drop or don't you're getting skewered. They're still pretty strong but killers still dont wanna play them, similar to Artist.
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xeno is really terrible when you play correctly, but you almost never see this because teammates just don't correctly utilize turret setups. if people keep a good turret setup through the match, xeno is constantly slowed/an m1 killer
but it doesn't matter because counterplay that is as complex as a 4-piece puzzle is beyond difficult for people to execute so xeno prob performs rly well
boring killer all around
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Thanks for the reply, I personally feel the same way. Mid ranged killer are always a bit disliked by the community because of the reasons you mentioned. I was just really sad that such an iconic character, which I wanted since I started playing the game, got a power like this, which would automatically lead to this "boring" gameplay in chase. However over the last months they have really grown on me.
To answer your question, I've also played Xeno a lot and I always try to use the tunnels as much as possible. The information u can get is great. But it also depends on how the control stations spawn. During the christmas event, the tunnelspawns weren't always near gens which could sometimes be beneficial as it allowed u to find and interupt survivors who are healing or hiding. But sometimes a map would spawn with not a single control station in one area, then it's very difficult to use the tunnels to your benefit.
Of course it depends on the situation, and in some games u might not use the tunnels at all, but if the survivors split up and do seperate gens, especially on big maps, then the tunnels combined with a sort of hit and run playstyle are a great tool I think.
You also mentioned that survivors often prerun whenever you come out of a control station. Here it can sometimes be beneficial not to use the control station right next to the gen, but one that allows u to get close to it and deny survivors acces to the map, zoning them to the edge of the map. This often worked really well for me, but of course is not always possible, depending on the rng.
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I think to really use a control station / tunnel playstyle you need surveillance. Or that's what worked best for me when I tried it, just randomly using tunnel addons had mixed results.
It's pretty clear given the volume of addons dedicated to attacking directly after coming out of a tunnel that it is intended to be Xeno's playstyle.
But on any given map half the stations will be useless to attack from, maybe 25% are decent, and 25% just dump you out straight into the survivors on a gen to get a free hit. Trying to preserve the gens next to the strongest control stations seemed to work pretty well. It also led to some strange situations where you were furiously defending a gen you should never normally think twice about (i.e. the one on top of dead dawg, or on the mothers dwelling balcony, etc) since coming out of those tunnels was always a free hit. Surveillance was key to knowing which gens to pop out next to for free damage, and the gens with bad control stations were abandoned
Overall it seemed to work very well, but I don't really enjoy the grindy gen defense playstyle so I stopped using it and went back to my normal build
Unrelated, huge swathes of map with no control stations is a mixed blessing. You have no mobility there, but also you are unlikely to encounter turrets so your chases should be very strong
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