OG Freddy Mains what new feature would you prioritise/steal if he came back?
I've watched old footage of Freddy, and not gonna lie... his power seems pretty cool compared to now. There are some things I like about new Freddy, but overall the original idea was far more interesting.
So.. If Old Freddy came back, he'd likely need some changes to fit modern DBD... what 1 change to his kit would you prioritise over all others? Would you steal anything from new Freddy to keep?
Mine would be: More challenging self wakeup mechanics.
I'd prefer to remove entirely the mechanic to wake up from failing skill checks, and have some more interesting/proactive kinda side quest. The alarm clocks do a decent job currently, though I'd hope for something a little more... thematic.
I've suggested before a whole overall to his methods putting to sleep, but keeping survivors asleep should be far more interesting than it was.
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I think 2 things:
Like Sadako, he can pass through survivors if they are not in Dream World. So no more bodyblocks for your teammates.
Keep and buff his teleport.
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1.) Incapacitated Status-Effect while in Dream Transition
2. Keep Dream Projection
3. Addon-Pass
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tbh i wish they would completely rework his chapter, character design and all. not only are his abilities crummy and weak and weird, but his character design also looks terrible. they should do that chapter justice with a complete rework and redesign. i would happily forfeit a new chapter in lieu of a rework.
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Ah, a thread about my favorite killer! This is a sight for sore eyes, thank you so much for creating this one, my friend!
So, you're already familiar with my proposal for a Freddy change, but please allow me to expand it a little bit.
Power: Dream Demon
Pull survivors into the Dream World
-Survivors who are awake do not see The Nightmare.
-Once targeted by The Nightmare’s power, survivors enter the Dream Transition for 7 seconds.
-During the Dream Transition Survivors can see The Nightmare intermittently and they suffer from the Incapacitated status effect.
-When the Dream Transition Lapse, the Survivor is pulled into the Dream World.
Once in the Dream World:
-Survivor’s auras are revealed to The Nightmare when they are outside of his terror radius.
-Survivors suffer an action speed penalty of 40%.
-To exit the Dream World, Survivors can find non-sleeping Survivors to perform a wake up action.
-Failed Skill Checks can also wake up.
-Hooked Survivors wake up.
Special Ability: Dream Projection
-Teleport to a Generator in view. Releasing the button early will cancel the action.
-Survivors cannot interact with the targeted Generator.
“You have nothing to worry about. This won’t hurt one… little… bit.” -Freddy Krueger
The idea behind this concept of mine is pretty simple: the Incapacitated status effect solves the main problem people had with him, which was survivors finishing a gen or getting an unhook right in your face. Now that would be no longer a thing.
The teleport is here because It is the only thing worth salvaging from his current kit, at least in my opinion, and because the mobility is a huge help sometimes.
As for a bit of power trivia, I'm thinking:
-24 metres TR.
-1 second of movement speed penalty for putting a survivor into the Dream Transition (it used to be 1 second, then it was nerfed to 3 seconds after patch 1.8.1)
-No delay between a survivor leaving your terror radius and their aura being shown to you (another nerf from 1.8.1, no reason to keep it).
Overall, a modernized version of Old Freddy isn't really difficult, as his kit was already wonderful. A few QoL improvements and the most unique killer in this game's history is back to us!
The mere thought of getting my favorite killer back makes me happy.
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We've danced before, and I remember this suggestion.
Have to admit, the TP is pretty cool. I like the blood rushing out of the generators... and part of me I likes the idea of anyone regardless of asleep or awake seeing it as a mind screw when using the add-on 😁
The immobilise for survivors while yoinking into the dream looks like it fixes a lot. I think your iteration of the idea works fine, especially as it gives him some nice traversal.
I'd personally like the new sleep and old sleep mechanics combined. What I'd want for Freddy is to capture the ambiguity of when you're between awake and asleep... in short:
- Survivors have 90 charges of microsleep and don't see their progress.
- Charges at 1 c/s (90s) and 2 c/s doing conspicuous actions (45s).
- Freddy channels a survivor at 10 c/s (9s)
- Once the sleep meter is filled the survivor can see Freddy intermittently (like the current Dream transition)
- Micro-sleeping Survivors get pulled into the Dream World by making loud noise notifications or when Freddy channels. Wake up from skillchecks removed.
- Can only be woken up when in the dream world either by teammate wake up action from someone not in the dreamworld, or via the clocks (though I'd use hot plates, steam vents or whatever and have survivors scream).
I was looking at dropping his gen slow down to 30% with this change, as Freddy can take a lot of the newer gen slow perks as well, and escaping the dream is harder.
Post edited by UndeddJester on0 -
The ability to phase through awake survivors is the only thing I'd really bring back about him. The rest of the old power I don't care about at all. In fact I'd honestly hate for Forever Freddy to return. Freddy is such an interesting character both personality wise and thematical power wise but we got a boring washed out version of the 2010 remake Freddy.
I've always felt he should have a separate boiler room area as part of his power for deep sleep. The recent Halloween Rift area thing is pretty much what I'd always imagined should be part of Freddy's power.
I feel with the recent release of Alien and now the Halloween event with its own unique area BHVR could do something like that with Freddy now.
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It's cool for like 3 matches then you stop playing him after realizing how weak, basic and repetitive his power is. They should keep current Freddy's kit and overhaul around it.
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The immobilise for survivors while yoinking into the dream looks like it fixes a lot.
It does!
That was, essentially, his only weakness. I never understood why it was never changed, because even though we didn't have the Incapacitated Status effect back then we did have Madness 3.
But now there is a golden opportunity to fix it and I'm sincerely hoping the developers take it. I know I've said that before, but this is a topic I feel strongly about.
He was my favorite killer, after all. He always will be.
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This would be very cool... watching a survivor cleanse my totems and being unable to stop them was always irritating
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Glad you like the idea, friend!
And trust me, I know the feeling. Especially when they would finish a gen right in your face.
But there is indeed an easy fix for that.
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Unlimited wall-hack while moving at 115%. that was his most defining feature that no other killer had. Still no killer to this day has that.
His other defining feature is -50% repair/healing/exit gate penalty which rework on improving through add-on but got gutted. so he has no identity.
freddy wasn't good even with -50% penalty and old pop/old ruin probably outclasses all current game-delay options.
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Unlimited wall-hack while moving at 115%. that was his most defining feature that no other killer had. Still no killer to this day has that.
Monitor&Abuse + Red Paint Brush = No TR.
One of my favorite combos he had to offer.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've read, the popularity of old Self Care meant the common counter to Freddy was spamming skill checks to escape the dream was his main counter?
He couldn't yoink people into the dream world and disrupt their ability to repair because they could wake each other up, and whoever he went for could self care out of the dream after throwing a pallet.
Though admittedly I would assume something else would be needed in his kit. Hard to assess having never actually played in this era I will admit 😁
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If BHVR is going for the easy route, they could just give current Freddy an Addon-Pass (currently, all he has is Red Paint Brush tbh... Black Box and Class Photo are kinda ok I guess... thats it).
Im still hoping for a Hybrid-Freddy out of both versions.
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yes. at the time, there was 2 schools of playing freddy. otz briefly talks about that. The first school was that the way to play freddy was to run two cat block that reduced the dream transition time and play as m1 killer. freddy's mechanic was that you couldn't m1 survivors. you had to put them in dream world and dream transition was very long. Like 6 seconds. it was like having borrow time on every survivor. with add-on, they reduced dream transition time. In the end game, you would get free escapes because freddy atrocious at defending hooks. The dream transition gave survivor's free pre-running potencial because even if they were out of position, survivor would make it to the pallet as a result of freddy being unable to hit the survivor. He almost had 0 chase potencial. The only add-on that improved your chase was Red Paint Brush because it reduced your TR from 24 -> 8 meaning you would have some periodic wall-hacks at loops but the add-on also reduced your m/s from 115%->110%.
If you watch otz video, otz talks about freddy's strength. freddy's strength were that he had unlimited wall-hacks across the map and he had 24 meter TR(16 meter) with M&A. The problem is that using his wall-hack at base-kit was really bad because survivor could go to generator or use self-care and wake up easily. This add-on otz uses reads as following. it considerably decreases chances to get skill-check. The green add-on above it does same thing but it moderately decreases chance to get skill-checks. survivor's found these add-on to be frustrating because when you stacked them, survivor spend 20 seconds self-caring and get no skill-check. Freddy could read your aura across the map, see that you were self-caring then show up and hit you. The same thing would happen with gens. you'd spend time working on a gen from 0->50% with that -50% action penalty and still get no skill-check. When you do get skill-check, you regress gen which produces loud noise notification for the killer. So freddy show up to your gen, put you back to sleep and so on. Otz mention in the video that if survivor group-up, Freddy could see the survivor who was waking up and by the time you wake up, he would show up and put both of you back to sleep. Survivors hated this gameplay, it had no name, but eventually gave it a name, it was called "forever freddy" because it stalled the game.
people who didn't take advantage of add-on and his strength whined that freddy sucked. Killers who did use add-on massively stalled the game and survivor found that frustrating. So they reworked him into what he is today. Unfortunately, survivor still found him annoying even after rework because he had two add-on's. Swing chains and Jump rope. These add-on reduced your action for repairing and healing labelled as "Forever Freddy" add-on's. Survivors found these to be annoying, so they nuked this add-on to orbit by completely making them useless and they also took the time to nerf freddy's base-kit by reducing his max snare count from 8->5 and making it that when you charge a snare, you move at 100%.
Since then, freddy has not received any changes. My guess is that he has design related to -action speed but dev don't want killer to use it so freddy just stays the same. receiving no changes. These days, I don't think killer care about that -action speed. people like @GeneralV just want freddy to be fun to play. Being stealth killer with unlimited wall-hack is fun. Current freddy kit is boring. He has nothing unique that stand out even if BVHR did buff him. His old design was superior because he had different unique gameplay that no other killer had to this date. otz showcases some matches with old freddy power.
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First time I've seen anyone break down Freddy's original add-ons relating to play style in a manner I could follow... fascinating. Cheers dude for the in depth explanation as always :D
Unfortunately my own suggestion is a bit too far out there to be taken seriously, but my thought process was that his complete invisibility combined with a channel that is dependant on the survivors passive sleep progress allows for sudden stealth attacks by grabbing into the dream with little warning, and his slow down would be around survivors having to stop gens to wake each other up or get out of the dream world.
Watching the old footage, the walking around yoinking people into the dream world part of the old power, then trying to keep them there was less interesting to me. My personal thought was to have Freddy more as a stealth killer that played around the ambiguity of the dream world transition. My main change was that the yoink was no longer something you throw on someone and wait to complete, but a channel that the closer the person is to being asleep the easier it is to pull them in... up to being instantaneous at the cost of the survivor being able to see you intermittently. Depending on balance you could have his intermittent appearances appear closer and clsoer together the closer the survivor is to being asleep. Once fully progresse don micro sleep, the survivor can then be pulled in by Freddy immediately.
With the conspicuous action sleep timer increase, Freddy could find 2 suvivors on a gen and pull them both in a fraction of the time, killing ones ability to progress a gen, and chasing the other to try to hit and down. This now forces the other survivor to have to go find their clock or another survivor to get out (since skill checks would not let you out), unless they want the big slowdown. My other main thinking was that survivors missing skill checks would get pulled into the dream world, allowing perks like oppression and huntress lullaby to cause problems, also allowing players to consider trying for saves by deliberately entering the dream world, but of course warning Freddy in the process.
Passively falling asleep and making it easier to pull people in, however limiting it to 1 channel at a time naturally makes tunneling less favourable, as you have to actually find other survivors to pull them in, even if it is instantaneous. The focus is, once a survivor is asleep there is no easy way out, and that seems more consistent to me. Each wake up taking longer then makes even more sense, as if you use your time poorly, Freddy will slowly gain more and more streangth to keeping you in the dream.
Entirely possible he would need something else to support him, as a good looper will be facing him as a regular m1 killer... but the ambiguous sleep transitions felt far more thematically accurate to the films, which have a lot of not being sure if you're asleep or awake moments... being able to transition someone within 2 seconds after they've been working on gens for 35 seconds from perfect invisibility seems like a reasonable trade off to me, especially if you take something like Pop or Surge to support it... but it's hard to know as unlike old Freddy, this is totally theory craft :D
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