Is Nostromo is the worst map of all time?
DBD is not exactly famous for great map design. In fact, maps have even been ranked in the top 10 worst maps in video game history.
In this list for example, Haddonfield was ranked #5 worst map of all time. Inreview
I want to make the argument, that old Haddonfield is compared to Nostromo actually pretty good. With all honesty, i can not think off a worse map in any game i have ever played. This is all of course in perspective to what a map in certain games should be. Mainly focusing on fairness, how enjoyable the map is and last but not least how dynamic the gameplay is.
I dont want to go to deep into this, since the problems (the entire map is a big problem) are most likely very obvious to you. Still here are some:
- 1/3 of the map are dead ends. Left and right next to the main building are basically gameplay killers. Ramps are placed in the most awkward way possible.
- The main building is by far the worst we have in the game. All pallets are super weak and not playable. The windows are without ballanced landing certaint death. The loop in the main is just silly running around a circle.
- Walls and the enviorement are bumpy as hell. There is not a single game i dont pump my toe on some random stuff on the ground, both as survivor or killer.
- Every gym feels like a filler. They are the by far worst versions we have in the game. Most dont even have the possibility for checkspots. They are designed for predroping the pallet no matter what.
- Most filler pallets are very bad and mostly not playable. Most of them are not even 50/50s, just straight up loose.
- Windows are not playable. The only "playable" window is usable from one side. And even there, the dynamic is close to zero. The joke window at main is just silly. Whats the point of that? Another 50/50 nobody asked for.
- The "killer shack" Spaceshuttle is a random thing with nothing to it. No gen, no window, not even a pallet (there is a meaningless filler outside tho). This is basically 20% of the map and can be totally ignored.
- Gen spawns are terrible. Often i find 3 gens in the unplayable main building, sometimes gens are all clustered in the middle of the map or in the dead ends.
EDIT: Since a few people came up with this point (and backed their claim up with facts), i want to add it aswell: Nostromo is onesided (killer).
I know that some think Borgo is the worst, other dislike Saloon or RPD, but objectivly speaking, nothing can beat Nostromo in my opinion. I can not think of a single positive thing about it beside the easter egg.
What is your opinion on that map? Are there even worse maps? Should BHVR fix Nostromo and if so, how?
Kind regards
Comments
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the game is suppose to be about 50/50's. if something isn't 50/50 than it is 100-0 for survivor. most of the maps follow the 100-0 rule with god pallets and safe loops everywhere rather then 50/50 pallets. As a result, survivor looping take a lot less skill in practice despite being one of the most pivotal elements of dbd. Nostromo Wreckage requires survivor competency to loop the killer.
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boring map it’s just toba landing with a dark colour palette
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Nah, Nostromo is one of the only good maps in recent years.
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In current DBD? No garden of joy is worse
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Personally, I quite like it. There are definitely maps that I much less prefer to play on.
Midwich and Hawkins are the stinkiest maps game play wise for me at the moment.
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Until they rework it, both Swamp maps holds the title for worst maps imo.
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What really bothers me is that they changed jungle gyms on this map. As you said, it's already bad enough that most of the filler pallets are straight up trash, but then they also nerfed the only decent structures on the map.
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The map design in DBD has reached its peak a long time ago. It is unlikely that newer maps, or reworks done to older maps, will be released devoid of any problems.
And as much as I hate Dead Dawg Saloon, I can see the arguments for Nostromo being the worst.
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If this is the way people think this game should work, i know why some killer get mad.
No, it should not be around 50/50s at all, it should be around interactive gameplay.
Sidenote: A 50/50 only becomes a 50/50 when the survivor plays it perfectly. If the survivor does a mistake, he looses automatically. It is only 50% for the survivor if the killer a) missplays plus b) the killer gets lucky.
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Can you explain why you think so? I added a lot of reasons why i think this map is terrible. Do you have some counter arguments?
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I can not agree. GoJ might be a one-sided map against M1 killers especially, but it is apart from that very dynamic and overall decent map design. It only needs some minor changes (like for example removing the main window or changing the parking lot), Nostromo would need a complete and fundamental rework.
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Garden of Joy at least has conventional loop tiles
Nostromo and Toba Landing does not
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You don't have to 50/50 anything on Nostromo though. Everything is typically compact enough that you can get to the next pallet without playing the tile.
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Nostromo has a lot of very bad loops, but somehow I can play with it. When compared to borgo, which is just as big as Gideon meat plant with one floor, Nostromo has at least a big map.
My main issue is the three gen in main, which can easily be abused. I had a mirror Myers there and he waited so long out of sight in the ship, until we were close enough for the hit. Then he repeated it so long until everybody gave up.
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I actually like swamp. I only think the map is too small and some jungle gyms are too bad.
If it gets reworked, the map will most likely be a free 4K for killers, considering the other reworks.
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i see survivor playing tile perfectly as default skill. If survivor plays a tile 100% perfectly and there is no 50/50 then where is interactive gameplay for the killer? At that point, is there any looping skill at all if you cannot get hit if you play x way?
Chain multiple loops is an advanced skill in looping. Because of that, this is why survivor think this this map is killer sided because loopers at high-medium to lower level do not see anything other than loop they are currently at. They only see loops as individual pallet itself. That is an example of why a lot of people think that hawkin is killer sided, you know, unsafe pallets. It is same thing for Nostromo Wreckage. Individually, the pallet suck but if you use your logic in to form clever paths, you might find more value in pallet resources then originally perceived.
Haddonfield for example is polar opposite of a map requiring brain-power to loop. Most the houses are straight up bloodlust 3 infinity loops. there isn't any secret to dominating killer. A good 70% of the cast can purely lose from pre-running and running window infinity loops vs good team. That's average level for survivor to do well on a map is infinity loops like haddonfield or a map filled with god pallets everywhere such as... badham preschool or Gideon's meat packing plant. Anything more then vault a window 3 times going in a circle or dropping a pallet in which killer is forced to break is too difficult for survivor. Loop too weak.
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Sadly it isn't an "if", it is a "when".
And then I will have lost every map that I like. Things aren't looking too good for me, I am afraid.
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I thought it will only be a graphical update for swamp and nothing more?
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I personally dislike Toba Landing more. All the maps seem to have some trash layouts ATM but at least Nostromo has a horror vibe to it.
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It's a great and balanced map that isn't Survivor sided (rare).
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RPD and Midwich are way worse
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Precisely. I have a problem with the graphics changing, but that is a personal opinion.
As for the maps themselves, I like them. Way better than Saloon or Nostromo.
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They've already confirmed that a swamp rework is happening and it cannot come any sooner, so that we may finally get rid of the ridiculous double window tile featured on both maps.
I'll take a ''free 4K for killers'' rework as you call it over what we have now any day.
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I honestly didn't realize that Nostromo was a problem, or disliked for that matter.
I actually prefer it to the other alien map simply because it's not nearly as cluttered and it's darker. Some of the loops are kinda interesting outside the generic ones. The only things I'd criticize is the lack of a decent killer shack and how unused those slowdown traps are.
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i see survivor playing tile perfectly as default skill. If survivor plays a tile 100% perfectly and there is no 50/50 then where is interactive gameplay for the killer? At that point, is there any looping skill at all if you cannot get hit if you play x way?
I dont know, is there any looping skill for the killer? What do you think? Or are all killer players equaly good/bad?
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No.
Not by a long shot.
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I hear some people hate it a lot, some dislike it and some are okay with it, but saying this map is "great" is interesting.
What do you think is great about it? I am honestly curious.
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Nostromo does lean more towards killer sided but it's not nearly as bad as old Haddonfield was. Old Haddonfield had the original House of Pain, the old houses and a bunch of strong (sometimes super strong) filler pallets. No way in hell is Nostromo even comparable to that monster of a map.
I miss the visuals though...
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I like Nostromo when I play killer. It reminds me of Rancid Abbatoir, which is like—as killer—for similar reasons.
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All of your points besides the 'killer shack' one are opinions.
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Not the worst imo. But the colour scheme makes it hard to navigate. Dunno if that's just a me thing though.
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those ´´ranks´´ means literally nothing tbh, it´s not objective, and it´s maded by a human being
you need rng to get a good nostromo match, half of the map will have strong loops, the middle + main building have decent to strong loops and the other side is just bullshit confusing tiles that you need to get a stun or you lose, it´s such a weird map, sometimes strong for survivor, sometimes decent for killer and sometimes it´s just bad in general,
imo the real problem is the random trash and the hitboxes, like, nemesis, the ultimate hitbox guy have problems with this map, and the gens spawn are something too
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No. I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. It's one of the most vanilla maps ever. There are many maps with far more offensive design. The map is killer sided, so perhaps you would only think that way if you were a survivor main.
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A lot of the loops on nostromo are just plain m1 killer sided.
It's not a skill issue when the short side of some loops is like a second worth of walking for the killer while the long side is 3-5 seconds of running.
As far as I can tell only the jungle gyms hold any real safety on that map.
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i really dislike nostromo, but badham still takes the crown.
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How are dead ends for example "opinions"? Or bumpy walls? Or that the main building is extremly bad when there is basiacally nothing in it? These are facts.
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I dont think it is very killer sided at all. I hate it on both sides.
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sure, if your talking about filler pallets located outside main building. there is 1 filler pallet on side of the god pallet in main room which is very unsafe. 2 pallets on right side assuming the orientation of being main hall and 1 pallet on far left side somewhat behind main building. these 4 pallets require you to stun the killer.
The rest of pallets are decent. The space shuttle located on south part of the map has unsafe pallet but... if you run in a specific way, you can run behind space shuttle and path around table inside to get back to the pallet. All other pallets either contain a strong window as jungle gym with weak pallet or both a strong window+pallet.
The map is fairely big meaning killer is not that good at 3 gen/applying gen pressure and one of unique aspect of this map is that stealth is somewhat viable on this map. It is not that easy to find survivor on this map. I don't think the map is that bad for survivor but there is no free waste time loops. you have to earn your time-waste on the map. most of the other maps do not require you to earn time-waste, the map design somewhat gives you free time waste.
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I was not really too interested in how ballanced the map is and more focused on the general issues. But you make a strong argument for another downside. Its onesided. I added it to the original post. Thanks
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Nostromo is far from big, its right in the middle of size. But to break it down even further: I already mentioned the shuttle, which is a complete waste of space and not of interest for either side. Survivor have no gen there and no defense, so they dont go there. Neither does the killer, no gen.
Next up is the main building which is mostly dead space you cant even enter. And main is like 25% of the entire map.
Last but not least we have the 9 o'clock side at the gate, which is big space of absolutly nothing. Same can we said about the 3 o'clock gate in a less extreme matter.
All in all, reducing the map to effective size, its one of the smaller maps.
3gen: 3 generators can spawn at the same time in main building. 3 gens can spawn on either dead end side of the map next to main. I mean, how much better do we need a 3 gen to be?
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The 'dead ends' are no worse than the corners of many other maps.
The main building is far from useless, and the mess hall pallet can be fairly strong if played right.
Bumpy walls? Is this a joke?
I've lost as killer and won as survivor many times on this map. Maps in general are just not as unbalanced as many would like to believe. From actual kill rates, the most killer sided map has a 61% kill rate while the most survivor sided is 49%. That's not significant. For it to make a tangible difference in any particular game, you would need a 25% range. 1 out of 4 possible kills/escapes. As it stands, the killer you're playing against or whether or not you're in a highly coordinated SWF outrank maps in terms of impact on outcome.
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I will take this map over the abomination I consider Hawkins and the Shattered Square.
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Allow me to introduce you to Garden of misery. A.k.a by far the worst map ever introduced in any game that has ever existed.
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Hawkins exists so no.
There is not a single good element to Hawkins as a map. Literally everything about it is bad from the loops, the claustrophobic hallways, the terrible gen spawns.
Killers like billy and huntress just don’t get to play Hawkins basically
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The 'dead ends' are no worse than the corners of many other maps.
Name one.
The main building is far from useless, and the mess hall pallet can be fairly strong if played right.
You run around the table pallet. Silly loop, no interaction, just straight running around and eventually drop the pallet. Not even delaying the drop is a thing. Dumb loop, nothing to it.
So what exactly is not useless of main? Window backside is not playable. Tell us where main has any good gameplay please? I came up with reasons why it is bad, you just say no. "Argument"
Bumpy walls? Is this a joke?
No, why would this be a joke? Its a valid complain i heared plenty of times.
I've lost as killer and won as survivor many times on this map. Maps in general are just not as unbalanced as many would like to believe. From actual kill rates, the most killer sided map has a 61% kill rate while the most survivor sided is 49%. That's not significant. For it to make a tangible difference in any particular game, you would need a 25% range. 1 out of 4 possible kills/escapes. As it stands, the killer you're playing against or whether or not you're in a highly coordinated SWF outrank maps in terms of impact on outcome.
Now its you who might be joking. Killrates is relative meaningless for this topic, its about the layout and design. Problem with people here is that they cant be objective.
Ballanced gameplay is a part of good map design, but this is far and away not the biggest issue with Nostromo. Yes it is killer sided, no question about that, but that is NOT THE ISSUE at all. This has so many bigger problems then ballance. But hey, lets make another us vs them thread out of this... 🙄
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Nostromo has big SqT. it takes long time to go from bottom corner to top corner and vice versa. The main building blocks big portion of the map. the only saving grace this map has for killers is somewhat weak filler pallets. adding strong pallets and window infinities would make this map survivor sided. the map is fairely balanced. I don't think it favours one side or other. The player who utilizes the map better wins. I can't say that for most of other maps in dbd.
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I wish i didn't lose so many FPS during nostromo matches. I just ######### hate this map for that reason only lol
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I'd personally say The Lab is the worst map.
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To repeate myself, i dont talk about the ballance. It is killer sided but that is not the big problem on this map. Problems are that it is full of (i mentioned some of the in the OP) design errors for a "cat and mouse" game. If this is good for survivor or for killer is not the main part of debate.
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