Does Anyone Have Video of a Killer Using 8 Gen Regression Events on a Single Gen in a Normal Game?
Answers
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You never double back even once to throw a survivor off? You never look around the area they cannot have left without leaving scratch marks?
You're just going to auto-pilot between three gens for ten minutes while never actually putting in any effort to find a survivor?
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The correct play against high MMR killers is sit on Gen and wait for a grab.
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I tried super hard to trigger the gen-blocking on PTB with the 8-limit. I dedicated and forced myself to kick gens every chance I got and still it took forever and only happened with 1 gen on a single game. By the time it took to do all that the game was either almost over or I already got a 4k.
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wasn't it bugged? I saw somewhere that it was. not sure if they fixed it, I would assume so...
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Yes. Initially the 8-limit and even the gen-tapping changes didn't work but they fixed it quickly.
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I never said survivors should do that. I said there should be a punishment for survivors that are excessively hiding or excessively pre leaving generators.
It’s like how BHVR made a punishment for killers that facecamped, where there’s an actual punishment. And it’s like the anti-3 gen, where there’s an actual punishment.
Similarly, there should be an actual punishment, for survivors that are excessively pre leaving generators so early that the killer doesn’t ever see any trace of them, which resets when they enter a chase with the killer.
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None of that works for low mobility killers, that can’t hide their terror radius, if survivors are pre leaving generators when the terror radius lights up, and hides until the terror radius goes away. There’s no “sneaking up” on survivors when the terror radius can give a 7 second warning to survivors.
Alternately, the terror radius numbers should be decreased, to give survivors less prior warning to pre leave generators.
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Punish survivor for "pre leaving Gen". You want survivors just to sit for a grab or a free hit.
How close is appropriate to you that survivors should leave Gen so you dont call "pre leave"? 8m? Coup the grace lung range? Demo Shred? Punishment of the damn?
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Maybe BHVR can count the number of times survivors, on average, leave a generator without getting in a chase, add a few to that number, and have the punishment happen there. Survivors seemed perfectly fine when BHVR used that logic to create damage immune generators.
And like I said before, BHVR could alternately just lower the terror radius values, to give survivors less warning. Or have the terror radius numbers temporarily be lowered, if the killer hasn't been in a chase after a certain amount of time. Maybe the terror radius numbers can be dynamic, where eventually they get really low if it has been a very long time without a chase, to help the killer get into the next chase.
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How are the survivors going to pull that off though? You can't walk all the way out of danger, and if you run, you leave a trail.
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Survivors have about an 8 second head start, which might be even longer if the killer needs to path around objects to get to the generator. The main point is the survivors will have a giant head start.
And survivors aren't forced to literally run 100% of the time. Usually when survivors have a giant head start, they will alternate between running to a line of sight breaker, and walking to another line of sight breaker. When survivors do this strategy, there will be gaps in the scratchmarks, and the killer needs to guess which direction the survivor went, and if they guess wrong even once, there is a good chance the scratchmarks will be gone before the killer can guess the correct direction.
And this strategy works because 1) the survivor is so far away that the sound occlusion will make the survivors completely silent on the killer's point of view, and 2) the survivor is so far away that they have time to alternate between running and walking to hide their path.
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Survivors have about an 8 second head start, which might be even longer if the killer needs to path around objects to get to the generator. The main point is the survivors will have a giant head start.
They can't use that 'giant head start' though, because they HAVE to walk. And they have to get around those objects same as the killer does.
And survivors aren't forced to literally run 100% of the time. Usually when survivors have a giant head start, they will alternate between running to a line of sight breaker, and walking to another line of sight breaker.
That does not work, because if they run, even for a second, they leave a trail that the killer can pick up on. And if the killer finds that trail, they're likely too close to hide from again.
And this strategy works because 1) the survivor is so far away that the sound occlusion will make the survivors completely silent on the killer's point of view, and 2) the survivor is so far away that they have time to alternate between running and walking to hide their path.
But if it would work like this, it would work under the current circumstances as well, and it simply doesn't.
You're building a scenario wherein the killer is flubbing really badly, and the survivors are executing an impossible strategy to absolute perfection.
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Have you seriously never done the run/walk scratchmark thing, and you've never seen anyone else do this? Like you seriously just 100% run, and leave a solid trail of scratchmarks? And you seriously can't even understand how this strategy works?
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I've seen people do it. I've also never seen it work for anyone else. I've been able to make a variant of it work myself, once, using Fixated against a Myers on a map where I had a high vantage point and thus could see the killer coming, but he could not see me leaving. He still found me on the third time because he figured out I was hiding further away.
Sincerely though, at this point, get better. If survivors are leading you on goose chases to this degree with any sort of consistency, not being able to permanently lock down a generator is the -least- of your concerns.
Or maybe bring a Nowhere to Hide to do it for you?
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They said it was fixed a few days ago. Not sure when the poster did his test. If it was the first few days of the ptb then yes, the feature wasn't actually implemented yet.
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If they implement that, killers will just exploit the system by excessively moonwalking as they approach a generator to force survivors to use up their pre-leaving stacks (I trust you see the point I'm trying to make here)
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1) No one said the mechanic had to be 100% perfect. BHVR seemed perfectly fine with slapping an 8 regression limit on generators, that builds up regardless of whether or not the killer is actively chasing survivors often. Killers could literally be committing to chases on every survivor they see, and their Surge perk could still be building up the 8 regression limit.
2) I like the idea of terror radius number reductions (whether it's basekit, or dynamic based on time elapsed since last chase) more anyway, since it's not directly giving survivors a debuff, but instead it just makes it more difficult for survivors to excessively pre-leave generators for extended periods of time.
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The issue isn't that generators will routinely completely run out of regression events. Completely running out of regression events before the end will be pretty rare.
The issue is that even in normal games in the PTB, almost every time the Survivors manage to keep at least 3 alive until the last gen, one (or more) of the last 3 gens is at least halfway through it's "charges" and so is hard to defend for long even if the Killer never intended to 3-gen in the first place.
It's not just the 3-gen situations that are being mitigated, this also puts a hard-limit on several Killer perks alongside making certain perks a near-detriment while affecting entire trials.
The most obvious example is Eruption (an already average perk after it's nerf) that, for every use of the perk, will take 2 "regression events" which makes the Killer able to apply the perk a measly 4 times before the gen can't regress anymore, which chances are might happen to one or two gens before endgame. Keeping in mind that Eruption is made to be used on multiple generators at once (and so, to kick gens even with low progress in-between chases on the off-chance that they do have progress when you get your next down) the perk literally becomes a potential hazard for endgame.
Also, every single perk that are activated via gen-kick, not even regression-based, now have a hard-limit to their value (Trail of Torment, Nowhere To Hide, Machine Learning, Dragon's Grip, Surveillance, etc.) which honestly makes them pretty bad since most of those perks were already niche but are now so limited that other info perks will get more value. Why use Nowhere to Hide, Surveillance or Trail of Torment mid-game if it might make the endgame harder? Those kind of perks often cause Killers to kick gens very often to use them and now the Killers have to calculate every use of their perk and if it's worth it to even use a perk that takes a "regression event" for the sake of temporary information or stealth.
Nowhere to Hide in particular is simply gutted by this change since it causes Killers to, in case of a hiding Survivor waiting to jump back on the gen, kick gens a lot more often (especially if said gen keeps getting repaired by a hidden Survivor that keeps coming back). But then the gens might get low on "regression events" even before the endgame, limiting Killers even before a 3-gen can create itself. The 3-gen "solution" should only affect the last generator and should have NO impact on the rest of the game.
In small maps, Surge could absolutely chew through your available "regression events" even before endgame if the Killer downs enough people, leaving you with like 4 kicks until the generator might as well have a constantly evolving BNP on it. I did, with bots and then with friends, a few test runs with Surge and Nowhere To Hide/Surveillance on The Game and Midwich so I could see it and in nearly every game at least one of the last gens was nearly depleted (4 or less kicks left), making the last gen very hard to defend even though I hadn't even intended to make a 3-gen.
This also, like most changes, affects weaker/slow/M1 Killers far more than the top-tiers since the mobile/powerful Killers, if the Survivors manage to get this far, won't have any issues patrolling gens quickly without needing to kick often, leading to a further gap between them. How are Killers like Trapper or Nemesis supposed to guard a 3-gen (that the Survivors created) or even just gens in general during the game if Survivors are efficient without kicking often in-between chases? Too many kicks early-on and the end might be even worse.
This mechanic also empowers genrushing as Survivors can effectively no longer 3-gen themselves by carelessly doing gens that are all next to each other. This essentially means that the "3-gen situation" is reversed: Before, the Survivors were in trouble if they were careless and 3-genned themselves as the Killer had less area to patrol and could find them easily, now the Killer is on the clock if the Survivors 3-gen themselves since they have a limited ability to stall gens before the gens can't be stopped anymore. The Survivors can simply do gens very safely (run early at the first sign of the Terror Radius) and slowly without the Killer being able to do anything about it until it is eventually done after a large amount of time.
Basekit BT and EGC were necessary and healthy changes as the consequences of their absence were felt nearly every game. The vast majority of games ending in a 3-gen aren't even because the Killer meant to but because the Survivors did every gens right next to each other in the name of speed (and bad gen spawn). This mechanic essentially erases Survivors's mistakes and punishes Killers for them while limiting Killer's options during the whole game.
While the "obvious" solution would simply be to make gens spawn farther apart (or at least have a minimum distance requirements between them) this mechanic could be used if it only "kicks in" (heh) when the 4th gen is done to truly be an Anti 3-gen mechanic.
If the mechanic is only in effect during the last generator, it directly addresses the issue without making lots of perks, many of them not even being made to guard/regress gens, less desirable and not affecting perk builds too much.
Killers that try to guard a 3-gen from the beginning (the problem we're trying to tackle) can no longer really do it since Survivors can simply do the other gens without pressure. It still removes a bit of depth from the Survivor's gameplay but making it active only during the last gen would at least leave Killer perk diversity less limited. The Killers that end up in a 3-gen situation despite their intentions will at least have a fighting chance even if 3 or more Survivors are still alive since they will have a full set of "regression events" to work with.
Furthermore, Killers that guard 3-gens from the beginning without committing to chases or downs will likely have to deal with a team of Survivors that are in better shape in the end than a Killer that actively chased and downed Survivors the whole trial and ended up in a 3-gen accidentally. The mechanic only activating in the end insures that a Killer that ended up in a 3-gen due to Survivor mistake (or just bad gen spawn, I've been in games where Déjà Vu revealed like 3 different 3-gen setups after doing a revealed gen it was ridiculous) will be less punished by the countermeasure.
Also-Also, choosing god-tier players as examples isn't exactly representative of the average game. Those guys don't need to kick gens pretty often outside of Pop or Pain Res (a combo that is already popular and will be even more popular if this change goes live due to those perks giving the best regression per procs compared to every other regression perks and will be the least regression-event-costly way to get some slowdown. those two alongside new Grim Embrace and Ruin/DMS will likely rise in use) because they can get reliably short chases. The average player, even the above-average player, can't expect quick chases as often and it's not rare for the average Killer to drop chases. We can't balance the game around god-tier players because they do not represent the average player. They are the perfect metric to calculate the maximum potential of a given perk or Killer (which is great) but in this instance they are not really the best examples.
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