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Killing yourself on hook
Im getting so frustrated with the killing on hook. Everygame we lose to people, oh you got caugt first....oh its skull merchent. Take 4 percent out completely its a stupid mechanic. Let the survivor do it one time and use that as a concede mechanic as long as the killer isnt facecamping then that mechanic takes over. When a survivor concedes no hook progress is lost and a bot takes over. Solve the problem BHVR before you lose every surv player you have.
Comments
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Bots are just the same a no player. They are more helping the killer than anything else. It makes no sense to implement more workarounds instead of resolving underlying issues.
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4% isn't a problem, it is an important aspect of the game that should remain untouched. What we need to understand is why people are giving up and adjust things accordingly.
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As long as DC penalty is a thing - survivors will keep killing themselves on hook or if saved will go around and troll the team. Just give me a bot that will do a gen or waste a killer's time chasing it even if it's for 10 seconds. Every second counts in this game.
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Oh my god, it's [insert killer] on [insert map] with [insert perks and addons] and they also [insert play style]. So unfun. I have to suicide on hook now.
That's pretty much the mindset of some people. In reality, the reason they rage quit is probably more that something didn't go their way. They want to have their cake and eat it too.
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Unfortunately there’s nothing that can be done about survivors giving up on hook, my only idea that maybe could work is implement a bot that would replace a survivor giving up early.
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This person knows what he's talking about!
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I honestly prefer 3 v 1 instead of braindamaged bot.
At least we won't have bot who will sabotage the team.
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The problem is the perception that there is no winnable outcome because of imbalances.
A casual survivor that gets sniped by a Huntress at the beginning of the map or rushed and downed by a Blight with 15 seconds means survivors will likely not win. People know this.
Devs have severely damaged the game by nerfing survivors too much and allowing killers to power creep out of hand.
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If the game and matchmaking were balanced better, that would be a valid argument, but there's currently a lot of broken ######### in the game that hands you victories as a killer that solo simply isn't able to counter compared to a SWF group. The game's direction isn't healthy for solo, so they'd rather not fight a losing battle. Playing against a SWF versus a solo is immediately noticeable in most cases. Until the devs begin to address the issues as to why people are primarily going to suicide on the hook, they will continue to do that.
Solo, unfortunately, isn't equipped to deal with various strategies like a SWF can with their level of communication and coordination on voice. Matchmaking aims for speed rather than accuracy, and you can tell very early on in a match if it's a waste of time so people would sooner go next.
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Is it really that difficult? Isn't it obvious?
In a game in which two sides with opposing goals are involved, it is inevitable that they will compete. In a competition, you can try to win by hook or by crook, or you can evaluate the situation in terms of the chances of winning and then decide that there is no point in investing your time and wait for the next round with a hopefully better configuration in terms of perks, map, offerings and opponent(s).
What's more, the game is incredibly straightforward. Not only in its design and mechanics. You can even recognize your opponent's goal by their style of play. There are no surprises and that makes the game unspeakably boring.
Games are actually a tool to trigger a fundamental characteristic of human nature: we are problem solvers.
This has been proven in psychology. Give a person a tangled rope and they will try, albeit casually, to untangle it.
That's why puzzle games like "Portal" or "The Talos Principle" are always captivating.
You can play them hundreds of times and always discover something new.
Unfortunately, that doesn't work in a game like this.
In addition, it is apparently not always or often possible to combine players of the same strength with each other. And even if this happens, you can never be sure that every player is pursuing the same goals and understands the game in exactly the same way as the others.
When it comes to kill games, I don't think anyone has understood it better than the makers of "Unreal Tournament".
There are still servers online for UT2004 and UT3 despite their enormous age. Maps are still being maintained and there is still a large community of players.
And yes: you get killed there too. Many times. But you just get back in as long as the game is running. And that's the difference to DBD:
A kill in DBD is equal to an inglorious ass-kicking. This is not the case in UT, even if there is a kill counter.
For me, this is a tenable explanation as to why someone would prefer to leave the game of their own free will.
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They really need to just remove unhooking yourself unless you have an active Deli. It does FAR more harm than good outside of that.
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How do you suggest we adjust? Half the time, it's people who get hooked just give up immediately. They refuse to play games where they ever get hooked. The problem isn't the gameplay, the problem is the player. They want risk free easy mode games and will stomp their feet when they have any semblance of having to make any effort. That's a mentality issue, "If things don't go my way, I quit." You cant balance around that. We could make giving up on hook impossible, but then they'd just troll the whole match or just sit afk (which often happens when someone unhooks them while they were trying to give up on hook).
An interesting circumstance actually happened the other day. A survivor tried giving up on hook. Someone else rescued, and when getting unhooked, they got hit by the killer and had deep wounds. They just ran off to a corner and let themselves deep wounds bleed our. For the rest of the match, NONE of the survivors went to help them. The entire match just let the person sit there and slowly bleed out while everyone else kept pushing gens and essentially treated the match like any other match.
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I don't know, I do not have all the answers.
First we need to know the reasons as to why someone would give up on a trial. I am sure there is more to it than simply wanting easy games.
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Well, I'm a killer main, and normally it's bully squads who give up on hook when they realize their buly antics aren't working. They want to immediately leave the game so they can go harass someone else with better luck. That's not really an issue since they are usually a 4 man, but it sucks when it's a 3 man and a solo queue gets left in the dust. I pretty much always offer that last person an all you can eat bp buffet or otherwise just hatch out. Occasionally though, the first person I down and hook simply gives up. Sucks for the rest of their team, so I usually back off on pressure if not downright give them a heal party and let them escape.
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I’m getting more frustrated that people are unhooking me or my friend when the match is clearly over! Yeah the game is a gg, why are you unhooking? It doesn’t gonna make me play the game, only gonna waste more of your time..
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I'd rather keep the 4% as it has resulted in me escaping a Trial twice when all seemed lost near the end.
However, I'm happy for the struggle skill checks to go in the second stage. They serve no purpose whatsoever other than for killing themselves.
This is the big problem BHVR aren't tackling. It's the one way someone can get out of a game without a dc penalty, or being reported for unsportsmanlike conduct. They get rid of that struggle phase and everything becomes so much clearer.
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I know it feels like that most times, but having another body for the killer to track is almost always a net positive. Only exception is if it's a live player actively trying to sabotage the team.
But from what I've seen, bot play is pretty inconsistent. I had a bot in a game last night with a RBT on (player DCing versus a Pig is pretty pathetic, but that's not the point) that kind of ran around in a seeming panic and died to it without doing anything of value.
But most times the bots are at least doing something to progress objectives, and I'll take that over nothing, even if not by much.
As far as ######### on hook, I'd do away with it. Like no unhook attempts unless Deliverance or the anti-camp mechanic are in play.
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I have had games in which I was about to lose but then someone hook suicided. People will find a reason to give up.
Even when you play perkless Hillbilly on Lery's and have no hooks at 2 gens left this happens. Are you about to tell me that I was too oppressive and solo queue just can't handle a killer that gets their first down after 3 gens have already been completed? This is a poor excuse for people that just don't actually want to play the game.
Just a short list of reasons I've seen people give up for:
- They didn't like the map.
- They didn't like the map but they themself chose that realm.
- Killer had Lethal Pursuer (spoiler alert: sometimes they didn't).
- They got found first.
- Someone else used a pallet that they needed and now they went down because of it.
- Flashlight save didn't work.
- Pallet stun didn't work.
- Mind gamed around shack.
- Caught off guard by stealth killer.
- Hit by a chainsaw.
- Teabagging then going down in 5 seconds. That one was a dc though.
- The killer wasn't to their liking.
- Another survivor went down quickly.
- They didn't like the killer's perks.
- They didn't like the killer's addons.
- They got hooked in basement.
- Killer didn't fall for their bait.
- The killer uses blindness perks or addons to counter WoO.
- Someone else died (with 5 gens completed).
- Killer brought a map offering.
- Other survivors brought a map offering.
- Killer brought a sacrificial ward.
- Other survivors brought a sacrificial ward.
- Doctor kept everyone in madness 3 at all possible times.
- Killer plays good.
- Their build gets countered (happened to me fairly recently, still have the screenshots).
- Killer has Lightborn.
Hell, I had seen people dc back when the RPD library and Boil Over exploit was still in the game for the sole reason that I refused to humor them.
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Yes, I'm glad you're able to distinguish that survivors will kill themselves on their first hook for a variety of reasons. Within those reasons are the core problems that lack a solution to why you'll find survivors disconnecting.
Nobody wants to play against Skull Merchant. Nurse and Blight are oppressive and shouldn't exist as they currently are. Why should your random teammate stick around to gain little to no points for being tunneled and camped the entire game to help strangers? Ultimate Weapon is left as-is for months due to the developer's lack of foresight when designing a perk that synergies best with killers that don't need the help. The killer is slugging, and there's no concede option to bleed out. Why does Knock Out even exist? It's worthless toward SWF, yet creates a toxic experience for the weakest role in the game currently, solo queue.
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I think a single instance when someone was giving up on your losing game is just not a strong enough argument to dismiss this issue.
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Honestly, I'm sure self-unhook failures are tracked. Put the players who are clearly doing this game after game in their own special queue with like-minded individuals. Heck, make it a party. Stick the killers who slug all 4 survivors to bleed out in that queue too.
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I had people tell me why they disconnected / gave up (although it was kind of hard to understand them between slurs). You even see some streamers act like that.
I agree that nobody wants to play against Slog Merchant and I hate her just as much as the next guy. But when people give up just because it's one of the 31 killers they dislike you have a problem less with the game but with the players. If it was only Nurse, Blight and SM, then the other killers shouldn't see that many people give up from the get go. But they do. And it doesn't matter what perks you use as a killer. Literally anything is enough to offend someone. Hell, Huntress Lullaby is enough to get you hate.
All of these niche scenarios are not the main part of the game and they are not when most people give up. It's the normal games, where someone will suicide right off the bat, that I have an issue with. Not the ones that are over anyway. If I have 2 people dead and there's 2 gens remaining, then I couldn't care less and I think that goes for most people. The survivors played the match out until it was over, which is the only thing I'm asking for.
Why should your random teammate stick around to gain little to no points for being tunneled and camped the entire game to help strangers?
Because it's the game they queued up for. They know that this is part of the game and they know that it could happen to them. It's unfortunate that this situation is as bad as it is but if you don't want to play the game, then why do you queue up for it to begin with? There will always be something unfun in an online game. There is no way around it. But when you dislike the majority of it, then don't play it. It's that simple.
Frankly, I think solo queue is a nightmare partly because something like that happens frequently. In 5 games you will probably have someone that rage quits. Not at the very end but when everything is still open. This is what further reduces solo queue enjoyment.
It hasn't been only a single instance but it was one of the more memorable examples. I had everything going against me and they still gave up. The first hook you get, someone often suicides. Why? Do they have the power to look into the future and see how the match will go? I don't. The game isn't over until it's over. You can win as a killer even when 5 gens are completed and you only got 1 hook (unlikely but possible) and you can still get everyone out alive when the killer has 5 hooks at 5 gens. Or you could, if you wouldn't give up the second something doesn't go your way.
I know I only ranted about survivors on this one because it was specifically about hook suicides but killers do that too. Nobody forces you to play the game. So if you don't want to, then don't. Otherwise you know what to expect. You could end up going against something you do not particularly like.
If you cannot handle that, then you should play a different game.
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You can very clearly tell when a someone just wants out. Let them. I wish stats were available for the game from release until 2020 to see how many disconnects there were per every 10 games. So many aspects of the game became such a chore that I found myself wanting to quite playing both roles so I stopped playing entirely.
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Always liked that idea. There was a game were they did this, can't remember wich one and if it worked...
But i can only imagine how hard this would be to program, with MMR and still having short queue times.
Because as devs you still want them people to play the game.
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Ok man, I like you but what is important about the 4% at all? 95% of the it's not used to kobe but to leave. 4% is a really small chance and any real player is either out of option(i've been there but it doesn't mean it's necessary) or leaving the game.
You can remove the 4% at no cost to anyone's mental health and still work on the issues that are so called causing it.
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Did you just say single issue after xertnon listed like 20 different reasons? Unsurprised.
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Whet people find to be intolerable is relative, that's just life.
Even if BHVR fixes the issues that are motivating people to leave the game, those same people will find new reasons once the new status quo settles. It's like perks; when the most egregious ones are fixed, people move on to complain about other ones, even if they're not bad.
There are people out there who quit on games they don't like habitually, and they won't change. They are the problem.
Don't get me wrong, DBD has a myriad of really, truly annoying aspects, bugs, and features that BHVR can and should address, but players who bail every time they don't like what is going on for whatever reason (I could probably double Xernoton's list) are never going to stop. Even if the game was changed to totally suit their individual whim, they'd probably then quit because it was boring.
These people won't ever be satisfied, because they apparently feel like they're entitled to the experience they want, every time.
Here's the reality as I see it: DBD is an asymmetrical, imbalanced game. It's kind of a mess, tbh. That isn't going to change, because that's the foundation. But our collective experience is in large part dependent on how the players behave in game, and as such we should feel some sort of obligation to actually play the game when we queue up to play the game, if nothing else.
If you've been a DBD player for any amount of time, you know what it is. You can (and should) openly lobby the devs to fix the most glaring issues, but imo, if you're not willing to play whatever hand you get dealt when you queue up, you should play something else.
Quitting on matches isn't an effective form of protesting, and it just screws other players. Want to send a message? Stop playing and/or uninstall. Stop buying cosmetics. Leave bad reviews. Hit them in the player count and the pocketbook. But if you're gonna play, play, ffs.
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Wouldn't it be a pretty simple solution to simply apply the same timeout if a survivor kills himself on the hook. It's not that hard to detect that he tries to unhook thrice and then misses two skillchecks. It's also not hard to figure out if he runs straight into the killers face when being rescued after trying to off himself.
Just let them have a timeout. Once they notice they have to wait 15 minutes to play a match they will not be so willing to throw the game instantly
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