Utopian Balance - How would we change Nurse?
Perfect Balance
Let's assume every balance issue is taken care of such as rushing the generators, low tier killers, survivor QoL, dedicated servers, and you name the problem, it's taken care of! Now, pretend we are going 10 years into the future and the only issue left is... of course:The Nurse
She's the only problem left for the developers since the community has been saying she needs changes! The developers are about to change her for the better good since she's the only thing left for balancing and the community is going crazy about her strength!
How would you change Nurse if you are a developer?
Before you tell me your suggestions, I'll start us off so we can spark a discussion!
Revamped Stats
Basically, I'd increase her movement speed to 110% since I'll be putting her power on a cool down timer. Next, her lunge will need to be buff so it's consistent with other 110% movement speed killers. Finally, a terror radius decrease of 8 meters will be the cherry on top!Spencer's Last Breath
Basically, it will go on a 10 second cool down period when you finish using her power! Additionally, her add-ons will be changed to be more beginner friendly such as having a blink marker as a common add-on instead of an very rare add-on!Now, discuss how you'll change The Nurse?
Comments
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SO that competent SWF can bully every killer then? Sounds like utopian "balance" indeed
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I would take that ultra rare addon that let's her see where she lands and make it base line.
End of changes.4 -
Whats with those abhorrent cooldown suggestions?
I sincerely hope that legion and spirit will have been the last killers with cooldowns.
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Nope, utopian means ideal so the generator rework is already in effect, all killer's are balanced, perks are balanced, and... basically there's nothing wrong with the game. How would bring Nurse down to a reasonable level? I'm curious because the community wants to nerf her when the time comes.Master said:SO that competent SWF can bully every killer then? Sounds like utopian "balance" indeed
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@Nickenzie said:
Master said:SO that competent SWF can bully every killer then? Sounds like utopian "balance" indeed
Nope, utopian means ideal so the generator rework is already in effect, all killer's are balanced, perks are balanced, and... basically there's nothing wrong with the game. How would bring Nurse down to a reasonable level? I'm curious because the community wants to nerf her when the time comes.
Nurse IS on a reasonable lvl.
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That would be a great nerf, since that beam is really distracting, kinda like CSGOs disgusting default crosshair.Tsulan said:I would take that ultra rare addon that let's her see where she lands and make it base line.
End of changes.0 -
you really can't nerf nurse, if you do that can make her too strong or too weak
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Ok baseline might be to much. But at least make it a grey addon. I don't understand the dev logic behind that addon. Since it's clearly addressed to new players. But at the same time ultra rare.ChesterTheMolester said:
That would be a great nerf, since that beam is really distracting, kinda like CSGOs disgusting default crosshair.Tsulan said:I would take that ultra rare addon that let's her see where she lands and make it base line.
End of changes.2 -
Why would you nerf a killer thats already very hard to play? If you are good at playing nurse then you deserve the kills1
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I agree, because it makes no sense. But even then i'd ask new players not to use it.Tsulan said:
Ok baseline might be to much. But at least make it a grey addon. I don't understand the dev logic behind that addon. Since it's clearly addressed to new players. But at the same time ultra rare.ChesterTheMolester said:
That would be a great nerf, since that beam is really distracting, kinda like CSGOs disgusting default crosshair.Tsulan said:I would take that ultra rare addon that let's her see where she lands and make it base line.
End of changes.1 -
Teach Survivors stealth.
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@ChesterTheMolester said:
Tsulan said:
ChesterTheMolester said:
Tsulan said:I would take that ultra rare addon that let's her see where she lands and make it base line.
End of changes.
That would be a great nerf, since that beam is really distracting, kinda like CSGOs disgusting default crosshair.
Ok baseline might be to much. But at least make it a grey addon. I don't understand the dev logic behind that addon. Since it's clearly addressed to new players. But at the same time ultra rare.
I agree, because it makes no sense. But even then i'd ask new players not to use it.
It would give new players at least an idea on where they´ll land. Once muscle memory kicks in, they won´t need it. Part why she is so hard, is because new players don´t know her range.
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@Tsulan said:
ChesterTheMolester said:
Tsulan said:I would take that ultra rare addon that let's her see where she lands and make it base line.
End of changes.
That would be a great nerf, since that beam is really distracting, kinda like CSGOs disgusting default crosshair.
Ok baseline might be to much. But at least make it a grey addon. I don't understand the dev logic behind that addon. Since it's clearly addressed to new players. But at the same time ultra rare.
Her AddOns need completely reworked. The majority you will never see for a reason and she is missing UR etc.
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@Nickenzie said:
Master said:SO that competent SWF can bully every killer then? Sounds like utopian "balance" indeed
Nope, utopian means ideal so the generator rework is already in effect, all killer's are balanced, perks are balanced, and... basically there's nothing wrong with the game. How would bring Nurse down to a reasonable level? I'm curious because the community wants to nerf her when the time comes.
You need to be a bit more precise when you are talking about a "generator rework".
Dedicated servers shouldnt affect the balance at all if executed properly, but in reality they will be a killer nerf0 -
nope no nurse nerfs
when i come home from work i deserve my 4k every round for playing the hardest killer
i would even say we should give her 110% movement speed that not so good nurse players can also catch up
survivor just need to play different against nurses. my bbq, nurse calling, whispers and shadowborn build doesnt make it easy for them but nurse is imo fine the way she is
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What is your definition of a generator rework? That's the one I'm talking about!Master said:@Nickenzie said:
Master said:SO that competent SWF can bully every killer then? Sounds like utopian "balance" indeed
Nope, utopian means ideal so the generator rework is already in effect, all killer's are balanced, perks are balanced, and... basically there's nothing wrong with the game. How would bring Nurse down to a reasonable level? I'm curious because the community wants to nerf her when the time comes.
You need to be a bit more precise when you are talking about a "generator rework".
Dedicated servers shouldnt affect the balance at all if executed properly, but in reality they will be a killer nerf 0 -
I wouldnt nerf her, I would completely rework her.
Spencer's Last Breath:
The Nurse can go through walls and obstacles when she uses her power. After going through a wall or obstacle the nurse will recive a 1 second fatigue. The power will go on a cooldown of 5 seconds. The nurse can also go through pallets and windows when using her power. When she does this she will recive no fatigue but her power will go on a 10 second cooldown. The nurse moves at 110% movement speed.
Not sure what I would do with the addons though. She would be strong in the chase but weak at map pressure. Overall though, without reworking her, I think simply decreasing the Nurses range on her blink and maybe increase the charge time for the blink itself. I would remove the 4-5 blink nurse though, make the max amount of blinks 3. Not sure how I would change her though, I'm not an active nurse player soooo0 -
Nerf nurse by buffing every other killer.
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@xXNurseXx said:
nope no nurse nerfswhen i come home from work i deserve my 4k every round for playing the hardest killer
i would even say we should give her 110% movement speed that not so good nurse players can also catch up
survivor just need to play different against nurses. my bbq, nurse calling, whispers and shadowborn build doesnt make it easy for them but nurse is imo fine the way she is
Hardest killer is Spirit. Nurse is pretty much the same difficulty as Hag.
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I would make it easier to learn her.
She has at the same time the lowest and highest kill rate. She´s terrible on rank 20. A nightmare for new players. Many new Nurse players get bullied.
I would like to change this. Make her newbie friendlier.0 -
@Tsulan said:
I would make it easier to learn her.
She has at the same time the lowest and highest kill rate. She´s terrible on rank 20. A nightmare for new players. Many new Nurse players get bullied.
I would like to change this. Make her newbie friendlier.I learnt her in 2 games on PC. I still haven't learnt Spirit in about 30 games and I struggle as Billy (but that's because I'm not used to getting looped since I only play Nurse, Hag and Spirit).
Her difficulty is highly exaggerated, she's not as hard as Spirit. To me she's only most difficult on Yamoka estate map.
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@Poweas said:
@Tsulan said:
I would make it easier to learn her.
She has at the same time the lowest and highest kill rate. She´s terrible on rank 20. A nightmare for new players. Many new Nurse players get bullied.
I would like to change this. Make her newbie friendlier.I learnt her in 2 games on PC. I still haven't learnt Spirit in about 30 games and I struggle as Billy (but that's because I'm not used to getting looped since I only play Nurse, Hag and Spirit).
Her difficulty is highly exaggerated, she's not as hard as Spirit. To me she's only most difficult on Yamoka estate map.
See, i have no problems with Billy. Nurse depends on the day. But i hate her exhaustion. Being forced to watch the floor tiles is one of the most boring things ever.
Haven´t played both of them for awhile. Since i usually play "underdog" killers.0 -
@Tsulan said:
@Poweas said:
@Tsulan said:
I would make it easier to learn her.
She has at the same time the lowest and highest kill rate. She´s terrible on rank 20. A nightmare for new players. Many new Nurse players get bullied.
I would like to change this. Make her newbie friendlier.I learnt her in 2 games on PC. I still haven't learnt Spirit in about 30 games and I struggle as Billy (but that's because I'm not used to getting looped since I only play Nurse, Hag and Spirit).
Her difficulty is highly exaggerated, she's not as hard as Spirit. To me she's only most difficult on Yamoka estate map.
See, i have no problems with Billy. Nurse depends on the day. But i hate her exhaustion. Being forced to watch the floor tiles is one of the most boring things ever.
Haven´t played both of them for awhile. Since i usually play "underdog" killers.Only 'underdog' killer I play (on PC since on xbox I play every killer since they're all maxed out) is Wraith. Her exhaustion isn't that bad since it isn't long.
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I do like the idea of making her faster but also giving her a cooldown, although I would prefer a less drastic switch. 4.6m/s with a 30s cooldown would make her too much like other killers. I'd rather see something like 4.4m/s with a 10s cooldown if anything.
She does have one of the most powerful powers in the game, there's no question about that, but it's something that's easy to miss. A 30 second delay would be a little overkill since it can often take multiple blinks to land a hit (depending on the killer's skill level, and that's going to be much harder to practice if there's a cooldown on it and you can't use it as often). If you offset that with 4.6m/s, you basically just have a vanilla killer that occasionally goes through walls.
If anything I feel 4.4/10s would be a little more fun and fair. Still possible to chase, but also gives the ability to skip large sections of loops. I would even be fine with 4.4/5s if pallet stuns could interrupt the nurse mid-blink. Stuns would not allow her to get looped since you could instantly force a pallet drop and burn through them very quickly (way faster than any other killer).
I don't know though. My biggest gripe is a lack of counterplay. I don't think the way the nurse works should be changed too much because the different chases are what makes her interesting to play against. She just needs some additional way to fight back.
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The only way to "balance" the Nurse is to redesign her power.
Currently, she blinks and lunges to strike with rapid sequencing. A more balance-able version would be that she blinks a lower distance and gets a speed boost coming out, and less fatigue; however, each additional Blink enables more total distance covered in less time (like normal), but also less of, say, her lunge distance and potentially a longer fatigue or something. Her risk/reward system is very minimal the higher she climbs in Blinks right now, and why most people use 3. Some people say her long fatigue for 3+ blinks is bad, but I disagree given how extremely powerful it is simply to cross maps for patrolling. She saves monstrous amounts of time on a lot of maps because she can just go right through walls that other killers have to walk around.
This retains her power's core function, makes her easier-ish to use for newbies, but doesn't quite gimp her top end GODSKILLED players, while making her more effective for the middling band of players with her.
As it stands, the only truly difficult thing to deal with is that she can close distances too quickly through barriers and obstacles, which makes her own perk, A Nurse's Calling utterly insane to deal with on her. The other option is to rebalance her collision interaction entirely, or to redesign certain perks when dealing with just her.
A great Nurse cannot be escaped unless the game decides to screw her on collision detection. Longer fatigue or/and slower movement speed isn't the answer, either, since that is miserable to play with, and doesn't even remotely help you escape one that's running something like Sloppy Butcher or Stridor.
The Spirit is like a crappier Nurse. Both use their powers to cover distance, both move slower, both can surprise people with their powers, but the Nurse is faster with her power in every single respect: speed, execution, potency, versatility, cooldown. Even having Nurse warn survivors with a visual cue doesn't really have an impact, since it only matters when she's already chasing you, or you're close and she doesn't know you're there. It has very little useful impact when trying to escape her.
Another good-ish nerf would be that her vision narrows to directly in front of her as she blinks. She can still pick up blood trails and scratch marks after she exits her Blink, but it's wayyyyyyy too easy to see people as you phase through walls and your vision clips through them. Like, a survivor tries to juke with LoS, but you blink to where you last saw them, and the game lets you see all sections of the walls, so you can spot them running away easily.
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Killer nerf if you use lag switches to get your kills.Master said:@Nickenzie said:
Master said:SO that competent SWF can bully every killer then? Sounds like utopian "balance" indeed
Nope, utopian means ideal so the generator rework is already in effect, all killer's are balanced, perks are balanced, and... basically there's nothing wrong with the game. How would bring Nurse down to a reasonable level? I'm curious because the community wants to nerf her when the time comes.
You need to be a bit more precise when you are talking about a "generator rework".
Dedicated servers shouldnt affect the balance at all if executed properly, but in reality they will be a killer nerf0 -
In an ideal world, we would need to rework nurse. It isn't impossible to get away or to waste time with a nurse, but it is very difficult. She has a massive difficulty curve, too, so it's fair that she's the strongest. If we make her equal to other killers, we would also need to make her easier to learn and to play.0
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I want Nurse to stay how she is now but eventually when everything is sorted out, she needs changes to add some more counter play for the survivor role. However, with that said, I still want her to be strong depending on the player's skill.fluffybunny said:In an ideal world, we would need to rework nurse. It isn't impossible to get away or to waste time with a nurse, but it is very difficult. She has a massive difficulty curve, too, so it's fair that she's the strongest. If we make her equal to other killers, we would also need to make her easier to learn and to play.0 -
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LMAO funniest nerf I ever read for nurse. I hope you r jokingPhantomMask20763 said:I wouldnt nerf her, I would completely rework her.
Spencer's Last Breath:
The Nurse can go through walls and obstacles when she uses her power. After going through a wall or obstacle the nurse will recive a 1 second fatigue. The power will go on a cooldown of 5 seconds. The nurse can also go through pallets and windows when using her power. When she does this she will recive no fatigue but her power will go on a 10 second cooldown. The nurse moves at 110% movement speed.
Not sure what I would do with the addons though. She would be strong in the chase but weak at map pressure. Overall though, without reworking her, I think simply decreasing the Nurses range on her blink and maybe increase the charge time for the blink itself. I would remove the 4-5 blink nurse though, make the max amount of blinks 3. Not sure how I would change her though, I'm not an active nurse player soooo0 -
Make stealth a really viable option against her. There have been multiple killers now that actually get countered harder by stealth than the nurse.
Huntress has a large, directional humming -> Nurse could get global, directional gasping
Spirit can't see blood and survivors while phasing -> Nurse cant see blood during fatigue cooldown
Legion can't see scratchmarks during frenzy -> Nurse can't see scratchmarks during fatigue cooldownShe and Billy could both need a higher cooldown on their abilities, since they were created during a different time, where balance was heavily survivorfavored. Apart from stealth and cooldown changes, i'd only like to keep her controls as is. People spent a lot of time getting the muscle memory down and changing that would likely cause riots. Just a guess, but if nurse gets balanced in other areas while staying the same in terms of blinking, nurse players could probably accept that. Probably better than changing blink distances etc
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Take away any add-ons that give extra blinks (in fact redesign most of her add-ons). Prevent aura reading during the blink phase. Block blinks through downed pallets.
These are fair IMO but really anything you do to nerf the Nurse will hurt the game.
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@Attackfrog said:
Nerf nurse by buffing every other killer.This guy has the truth.
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No cooldown please, she already makes you look at the floor with her nausea-inducing fatigue...
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How would I, the worst nurse player in human history, nerf the nurse?
i wouldn’t. Like, at all.
shes the only skill based killer in the game. Why would you even touch her?0 -
Here we go again with the lag switcher myth...fluffybunny said:
Killer nerf if you use lag switches to get your kills.Master said:@Nickenzie said:
Master said:SO that competent SWF can bully every killer then? Sounds like utopian "balance" indeed
Nope, utopian means ideal so the generator rework is already in effect, all killer's are balanced, perks are balanced, and... basically there's nothing wrong with the game. How would bring Nurse down to a reasonable level? I'm curious because the community wants to nerf her when the time comes.
You need to be a bit more precise when you are talking about a "generator rework".
Dedicated servers shouldnt affect the balance at all if executed properly, but in reality they will be a killer nerf
Yes, they exist. No, not every bit of lag is a lag switcher.1 -
I think part of the problem is the cart is put in front of the horse.
We don't know what the plan is. We don't know what the devs will do. We basically have no idea what we will be working with.
Too many variables.
For all we know, nurse could be baseline performance since:
there is no nerf SWF would take. They would tantrum, if not lobby dodge until they were together to avoid the penalties.
Solos are going to be buffed to SWF levels somehow.
Killers will need to be buffed to compensate for the vast amounts of data solos will be getting.
Heck if it's only top of the line skilled killers that really do well with the nurse, or console keeps hampering nurse, she might get buffed!
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Honestly, Sally is the only thing that keeps me from uninstalling this game. I like her the way she is now.
And for the love of whoever you believe in, stop with these cooldowns. Spirit is okay, but Legion are kind of annoying with their CD.
Even the Devs said they don't want to make CD abilities, because it is too restricting.1 -
@xXNurseXx said:
nope no nurse nerfswhen i come home from work i deserve my 4k every round for playing the hardest killer
i would even say we should give her 110% movement speed that not so good nurse players can also catch up
survivor just need to play different against nurses. my bbq, nurse calling, whispers and shadowborn build doesnt make it easy for them but nurse is imo fine the way she is
Username checks out! (jk jk).
In all seriousness, I don't think nurse needs a buff. I would say nerf her a bit, but then make her a little easier to play.0 -
This is what I'd suggest:
Either completly remove all her current +1/+2 blink add-ons and only leave Fragile Wheeze as Ultra Rare (+1 blink without penalty) and rework the other add-ons.
...or greatly increase the fatique duration when she uses additional blink add-ons - and don't just increase it when she actually uses all her blinks, it should be general. When the Nurse uses 3-4 blink add-ons, she will suffer from the increased fatique even if she just uses 1-2 blinks.
And generally make the fatique duration based on total distance traveled multiplied by the total amount of blinks. Accurate long range blinks will get rewarded this way while multiple inaccurate blinks would get punished.
As I see it right now, a basic 2 blink Nurse of high skill IS beatable. One blink to catch up, one blink to land the hit. It's a miss or hit at that point, depending on the juke skill of the survivor and your blink accuracy and prediction. Any additional blink is just there to make up for mistakes, making it a lot harder for Survivors to juke her. If a Survivor actually manages to juke 3-4 blinks, they should get rewarded for that.
E: That's been said, I find your suggestion interesting and I'm saying that as a (re)tired Nurse main.
Post edited by PiiFree on0 -
I do feel like if she needs to be more beginner friendly such as having a marker at the position where she will end up at. However, if you read my version of the Nurse, I made more changes to make her feel more beginner friendly!Tsulan said:I would take that ultra rare addon that let's her see where she lands and make it base line.
End of changes.
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