Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on this and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
Get all the details on our forums: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/436478/sign-up-now-to-receive-a-recap-of-your-2024-dead-by-daylight-stats/p1?new=1
What specific issues with MMR bug you?
We talk a lot about MMR and its problems, and I'd like to hear from everyone what particular problems MMR has that make you want it out of the game or reminisce about pre-MMR days.
I, personally have only ever played with MMR in the game. At base level, it kind of ruins the feeling of victory as killer. If I completely wipe a team or have a good streak, there's always that shadow of "this is probably going to make my next few games miserable." It's kind of a mood killer (no pun intended). It feels like being punished for winning.
I win so inconsistently as solo-que survivor that MMR seems like a non-issue when I play survivor.
Another one of my big issues with it is actually the way back-filling works, especially as killer. It seems like, as soon as a killer leaves, the game just grabs the next available person, regardless of any skill level, defeating the point of having MMR at all. My worst games are often ones where I've gone into a lobby of 4 people ready to go, and they end up being either a bully squad or some pro-level SWF that I don't really know how to counter. Every time I come back after a break, I need to relearn that back-filling into a full lobby as killer is a red flag. I understand that those people need killers to play against too, but I feel like the system could find someone else more qualified.
As solo survivor, back-filling is a complete lottery. You could get a team mate who's a god that's been playing since day 1. You could also get a potato.
What about MMR bugs you the most?
Comments
-
As a mid level player it never pits me with other mid level players
its either noobs or people wayy above my pay grade
13 -
Definitely. While I'm not the best in chase, I can lead the killer around for a little bit. The HUD makes it obvious though that my team mates aren't doing anything with this time, though. As killer, it's a toss up. One game I'll have survivors with no understanding of self-preservation, and the next, I'll face a team who thinks this is a tournament.
3 -
Same I either get left on the hook until second phase or die on first hook. Or I end up doing most of the work. When I check out their perks they are either all newbie perks or they only have one. It's like why do I even play. And the killer is like Zues.
3 -
I'd love to be able to see their level vs. mine. If this would hamper matchmaking then at least show me after the match.
1 -
Survivors when I play solo que:
Survivors when I play killer:
Both pulled from Youtube
2 -
There are 3 issue I have with this system.
- Kills/escapes is not a sufficient indicator for skill. We have an emblem system that tracks a variety of indicators and would be much more reliant as mmr system. Back as it was used as matchmaking base at some point it was a decent matchmaking with balanced out games. But devs overthrow this good base system instead of honing it. One of the worst developments this game had to endure.
- Matchmaking is flawed beyond control. Backfill lobbies screw the most games. Killers are free to do lobby shopping with no penalties, resulting in the utmost stupid match-ups. the range of matching mmr values is obviously by far too big. also at some point youre in low-mmr hell. You get matched with bad players and due to that ridicoulous backfilling you probably play more often against killers that take out the small fry super easy, just holding you back from raising your mmr at anymore.
- Also nobody knows their own mmr, the mmr of their teammates nor their opponents and so they cant even calculate at which level they are or how hard they have to sweat to get to a certain point to evade bad games. also much toxicity arises from not knowing their own mmr as 90% of the playerbase claim to be high mmr, though theyre not. I often have killers in my games that 4k cause of low-mmr hell and think theyre the greatest of all times.
Summary: the whole system is a mess. but as always devs cling to their new toys no matter how unsuitable they are.
8 -
All of your points are great.
- I feel like this is made worse by the fact that DBD feels like it snowballs a lot. Either the survivors get to the endgame with everyone alive and only lose one person, or the killer starts getting momentum earlier and gets a 3K or 4K. Nightlight shows that 2K's make up the smallest percentage of match results for every killer except Twins.
- Backfilling is a huge pain point for me. Given, as you said, that a lot of killers lobby shop, the lack of any protection hurts those who don't lobby shop the most. This only results in killers who don't lobby shop getting demoralized because they're being put in games they can't hope to win.
- On top of not knowing MMR, we have prestige, which, to be honest, isn't a great indicator of skill. It's just a measure of time played, given that bloodpoints are what make the prestige number go up. However, it's the only measure we have, which leads to killers lobby dodging and creating a worse game for the next killer in line.
0 -
My issue is i play killer and get at least 1 p100 survivor and they loop and do gens, I play survivor I get survivors who are all under p10 and they do very little and die. This makes my games playing both sides very unenjoyable for the most part.
2 -
Mostly just makes me indirectly despise that backfill logic exists when people dodge in any capacity at all.
2 -
My problem with it is that it doesn't really work, which is whole point if MMR.
Why? Because quantifying skill (to the degree that it is even necessary) in this game is nearly impossible. W/L doesn't really mean much, what else do you measure?
You can't tighten up the parameters to an effective level without sending queue times through the roof, and as it is you're almost as likely to be matched with or against people with a fraction of or multiples of your own experience as you are someone on your level.
We aren't shown the MMR rating of other players because it would just exasperate people, and there's nothing to be done for it anyway. Prestige doesn't mean much. Grade meant a little bit more, but still not much. But we'll not see anything with any meaning anymore because it just makes people mad, and turns players on each other.
Frankly I'd just be satisfied if the system did its best, but started hard disallowing extreme mismatches (your 5 hour vs. 5K hour horror shows), which are far too common. No new player should ever end up in a match with a multi-year veteran; there's no excuse for it. I have come to accept it'll never be accurate, but there has to be some limit to how inaccurate it can be, backfill or no.
I think that's the best we can hope for.
1 -
You get PAID? Why did no one tell me about this? Lol
0 -
It's mainly solo queue. At least half of my games feel completely and utterly pointless, and it's due to one or two teammates being significantly less skilled than the killer or other teammates. The outcomes of those trials would be the same if I loaded in, took my hands off the keyboard, and did absolutely nothing. They're 4k's with 2 or 3 gens remaining and I barely see the killer because teammates drop like flies. And then the killer chases me last and I run out the entire EGC against that same killer.
And I know Mandy mentioned that no changes were made aside from the announced ones, but that just doesn't add up with what I'm experiencing for the last month since Chucky released. I was escaping 5+ games in a row for every loss for weeks after the soft cap was raised. Teammates had 2k+ plus hours for the most part. Killers were getting less than 5 total hooks in many games. And then suddenly teammates regularly went back to 500ish-1000 hrs and throwing games. There is no quantifiable reason that I would have dropped MMR brackets or anything over night.
I went to bed, woke up, and suddenly was lucky if my team repaired all the gens. And it has been that way ever since. I understand what they've said, but it just doesn't add up with what I've experienced. Not that anyone has claimed this, but I'm not stupid. If nothing has changed with the system, and nothing changed with my win rate in a 12 hour span, why the did the experience change so drastically, and why has it persisted?
2 -
Point 3 gets me the most. The playerbase can't meaningfully give feedback or report issues with a system they have no insight on. You can have alerts set up on a system, you can check on it periodically, but there are also many times when you find out a system is malfunctioning because users alert you to it. If I said "Trust me, it's working", I'd have to produce server logs or prove it in some fashion.
0 -
This. Literally this.
It perfectly describes my first two games as Freddy tonight.
1 -
My biggest complaint is I wish I didn't know it existed. It's kind of in the back of the mind with wins and losses over what it will mean for future games.
I'm pretty happy with my survivor matches lately. My teammates seem skilled and I still see a decent variety of killers. I don't want to go back to a lower MMR were the teammates were awful, or a higher MMR were its purportedly just a few killer types.
As killer, it definitely encourages me to avoid meta builds.
0 -
The fact that I have to queue up on killer after 12:00AM to have a 50% chance of getting a valid game while handicapping myself in a few different ways. I'd rather wait for the so called "sweats" to match me while I am playing underwater, than still handi-cap myself and somehow stomp.
As strong as blight is I shouldn't have to: Not run add-ons, only run shadowborn, bbq and lethal, play after 12:00AM, 7-8 hook, NEVER KICK A GEN and only go for someone after they are fully healed. Even when I play nemi with only PR as the good perk I still have to play "super nice". The fact that I wait 30 seconds for people clearly not up to the task of facing me puts me off this game. Let me wait 2 min for the super egotistical "sweats" I don't care. Give me a real challenge, make me feel like I can actually try without feeling like I'm playing against puppies. I'm washed and drunk most of the time I play this game and I still feel this way. mmr is a joke.
Survivor isn't a dead role, it's just there is always one person on the survivor side not up to par or not trying. Even good players aren't playing optimally half the time. I would ask for a ranked queue if I thought it would be any better but I highly doubt it.
I actually had to try my heart our a month ago against two extremely good survivors(in chase vs blight) only for the random nea to go for a flashlight on death hook at 6 hook vs me and the other three had bad macro to compensate. I had no right to win and still got a 4k. I got intentionally pluto'd twice in one game and only one was at shack, that's a yearly occurrence!!!
GIve me a checkmark to wait for more valid players, 99% of killers won't hit that checkmark but I need that to be in the game.
To put it in league terms in the best of circumstance I go against two master or even grand master players while being grand master but also am going against two diamonds. I just don't get it. Putting so many restrictions on myself when I love to try as hard as I can has all but killed killer for me.
0 -
The general inconsistency of the matchmaking. I played earlier this morning and my teammates were literally gods. All of them in the thousands of hours. No weak loopers, efficient on gens, etc. The day before it was literally people urban evading, running into walls during chase, refusing to unhook, etc. This is how my DBD experience typically goes. I have a bad day where I am brought down by awful teammates so my MMR theoretically should give me even worse teammates. Yet the exact opposite happens. Make it make sense. My opinion is the same as it has always been. The MMR is so loose in this game that it might as well not even exist. I'm not sure who it works for other than brand new players.
0 -
My biggest issue with the system is the way that it seems to fail Solo Q survivor players the most. If I play early in the day, I end up in a lobby full of Survivors that don't touch gens and/or are somehow even worse in chase than I am. If I play late in the day, I end up in a high MMR SWF lobby Vs a sweaty Killer that's obviously been matched to their MMR and not to mine. In both situations, there's very little prospect for my escape.
I find a 100% BP incentive to be in place for almost the entire day. While I'm not entirely certain about this, I take this to mean that the system will be less interested in making fair match ups and more interested in making quick ones. So if a 5K hour Blight with a sweaty build has been waiting for nearly 5 minutes to play and I just happen to be queuing at the same time, there's a chance I might end up in their lobby simply because the system needs to find someone for them to play against.
Solo Q Survivors endure the most lopsided match ups of anyone in the player base and I think MMR is to blame for this.
0 -
You said everything I wanted to say. Thank you.
And BHVR should improve all these problems. They always just adjust perks and add-ons without thinking about the quality of the game (matchmaking) at all. They don't understand how important matchmaking is, and if you don't make adjustments to it, no matter how many new features you introduce, it will always fall apart.
1 -
It should be based off bp gain/gens done instead of kills/escapes. If a killer gets 1 kill, they easily snowball into a 4k more often than not (which is why tunneling is so very enticing). But on the flip side, the killer really didn't do well if the survivors pushed 4/5 gens. This'll keep weaker killers out of high mmr hell and keep carried survivors who did nothing in the weaker brackets
1 -
That's actually an interesting idea. I'd like to see what would happen if they did adjust the MMR to work that way. It would at least be a form of evaluating based on in-match performance, rather than final results, given that they don't seem to want to use the medal system anymore.
0
