People are overreacting about Sadako nerfs
After playing several games with her, l can say that sadako is not as bad as people are saying.
she’s definitely a lot more fun to play and my matches with her haven’t been bad despite the nerfs. Of course we can agree that some changes were unnecessary and some don’t even make sense in relation to tunneling.
People are saying that the condemned mechanic is useless which is something that l have to disagree and my games with her was already showing this since at least l was able to kill 2 survivors fully condemned on each match.
l’m realizing that even though the survivors are on death hook, they’re still wasting time with the tapes, which doesn’t make much sense since they’re going to die anyway, no matter if it’s by the hook or condemned.
something that isn’t impacting me much is the condemned cooldown. Being able to teleport at any time across the map is so great, even though you can’t spread condemned, you can still get a little pressure if you’re an experienced Sadako.
anyway this is my opinion on Sadako according to my matches and l feel some people are exaggerating a bit about the changes and l’m sure people are complaining without even testing the changes, that always happens anyway….
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The Sadakos I'm running into aren't buzzing around the map like a coked up housefly until people are condemned anymore, so I'm happy
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I mean even og sadako which was one of the easiest killers to beat had a high killrate, the fact that people are so bad they can make such a killer look good is honestly hilarious.
Also how on earth do you get codemned against new sadako? Tapes have no downside whatsoever, you should always have a tape in your hand to get rid of condemn if needed. Only way I see a survivor getting condemned is if they either did it on purpose or they have not faced more than 4 sadakos in their playtime.
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One Pump Willie made a whole video about this. Basically survivors can't be bothered to pick up tapes.
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condemn is noob-stomp mechanic now. it only works vs weaker survivors/new players. you win faster by being an m1 killer then using the ability. i am winning with sadako by just hooking people 3 times. Sadako's ability is unsatisfying to use.
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If anything, people are under-reacting to it, given what it says about the truly dreadful state of BHVR's design process and philosophy, or their ability to simply read feedback.
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She feels weak. Condemn is very easy to cleanse and she's still a basic M1 Killer. Her stealth is not good, especially since survivors can see TV auras. She's a step up from the original version of Sadako, but no longer can reset TVs with Iri Tape. Those nerfs from the PTB may not be gamechanging, but they really throttle her ability to spread Condemn. They were unnecessary and while it's not the end of the world, I think the backlash is fine because how else will the Devs know she feels bad to play? But it was odd that they saw all the positive feedback from the PTB and decided to nerf her.
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Whenever I see this type of post about current Sadoko I can't help to think "What kinda survivors are you going against to get those results?" Like I don't understand how any halfway decent survivor would get fully condemned with how much hand holding this version of Sadoko has. Like tapes have no downsides, TV auras are shown to you all the time, and taking a tape and putting a tape in only takes a second to do. Being down with a tape isn't that bad unless the Sadoko is running Ring Drawing. On top of that you going against a m1 killer with no chase power who stealth is so weak. All she has is a teleport and honestly there killers who have better map transversal like Xeno. New players sure may get condemned once in a while but any halfway decent gamer I feel would learn how easy to counter this version of Sadoko and never get condemned again.
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I agree with everything you said, except for she’s a step up from the original version of herself.
That would be true if the original version of iridescent videotape still existed, and the original version of ring drawing, but because both of those were gutted, she is definitely weaker than her original state. Respectfully
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I gotta tag you in this @radiantHero23
if you were able to kill two people via condemn, then those survivors completely ignored her counter play it takes her 10 seconds every teleport to condemn someone if they’re even near a TV of 16 m.
(which by the way, her counter play to condemn, is the easiest thing to do if you have slightly a brain left. There are multiple counters to her condemn, and there’s nothing she can do about it.)
The people that main this character are in mid to high MMR. I might as well play trapper…
Not to mention survivors can counter her more than ever now, especially with TVs being shut off by survivors of 70 seconds plus you have to add the 10 second cool down to even get the condemn.
She’s in the worst state and she’s ever been. I’ve been playing this character since the beginning..it’s not an exaggeration. She’s just awful.
She has no anti-loop and no chase, no problem fine, but that means her power needs to be strong. Hence her condemn. It’s extremely weak.
Nobody wanted a cool down on her and it wasn’t even needed. nobody asked for the cool down to be brought back, in fact, the developers took it away, because it ruined her synergy, and everybody hated it, then, for some reason they decided to return it.
Before assuming that some of us haven’t even tested the changes, Some of us spent several hours testing the changes.
you don’t have to run over a nail with your car to know it’s bad for your car 👍
Post edited by MechWarrior3 on5 -
I have video evidence of how bad she can be and how useless condemned is against decent people.
With all my experience, I have to disagree. She's in a really rough spot right now.
To use projection is not worth it without condemned. Her chase is too bad.
She's goodish against unaware people, which are a lot right now. SHE GOT REWORKED TWO TIMES. I can't blame anyone for not knowing how she plays now.
The worst feeling is, when the strong swf realizes how useless her power cna be and starts to rub it in. It's really awful.
I had games where her power worked alright, but then, it was only because the survivors did not play effective by any means. Having a killers power and effectiveness being based on survivors being completely oblivious is horrible balancing.
Well said.
As I said, I have collected video evidence now. If someone wants to watch me suffer, I can turn on the vcr. Maybe she'll greet us and release us from this nightmare.
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I am not playing her until she is giga buffed. There is no reason to play her. Wraith is much better and Wraith isn't top tier killer mind you.
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Im still pushing condemn. I lose 3 - 4 gens before it starts to do something. That's worse than back then and I'm using ring drawing.
That's really bad.
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Balancing about the most unaware survivors is not good.
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It was crazy too, cause I've only ever seen him being a pretty cheerful and upbeat guy. He was making it entertaining and funny, but you could tell he was genuinely annoyed about it.
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by design, it will never do anything because you need hook survivors two times to lock-in 4 stacks but when your on death hook, condemn is irrelevant. you can just use ebony mori offering. It is better than her power.
The only way lock-in was ever going to do anything is if you hook someone with like 4-5 stacks of condemn, then tunnel someone off-hook(5-6 stack of condemn), slug the survivor under a tv then tp to skip 1 hook-state when survivor is picked up. This was designed failure from very start of the ptb.
I'll push condemn when the mechanic does something.
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It does do something. It's the cooldown that prohibits it being built up effectively and the lock on that doesn't want you to hook because it's too weak. You DID not have to tunnel on Ptb. The mechanic was strong enough to spread condemn and hooks across all survivors.
If you want to watch some gameplay of it working great and it working awful, I have examples for both.
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all the mechanic is doing right now is making survivor spread out and do gens. they can walk to a tv, take out a tape, walk to other side of the map near gen, do 20% of a gen, then put a tape to close tv for 70 seconds. Even if there was no cooldown, I'm unable to teleport. survivors countering you is like worse then freddy.
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People have gotten into the details, but here's my tl;dr on why I'm peeved:
Sadako started out as a low-mid tier killer, an absolute noob stomper, but fell off hard against good competition unless you play like a dbag.
Then they buff her, but into a killer that almost fostered a really braindead and unhealthy play style.
Then we get teased with a rework back toward her original state but better. Then the rework implements some exciting new mechanics, but has some shortcomings that the community give feedback on.
But then they seemingly ignore the feedback, didn't fix what needed to be fixed and essentially gutted the positive changes for totally nonsense reasons, leaving her in her weakest state yet.
She's not the weakest killer in the game, but if you're a Sadako enjoyer, it's been a demoralizing ride.
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No. They aren't. She was somewhat fine before, though she could have used some small buffs still. Now she got nerfed. She is not fine in any sense of the word.
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But where are you when they walk across the map? Your leting them do it.
Im not saying that you can interrupt them, but you can put up a fight and at least not let them do 20% of the gen.
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Agree!
Ive been playing a lot yesterday. In one word: shes weak. The power feels undertuned. The nerfs need to be reverted and the insertion animation increased to 2seconds asap.
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I played only Sadako yesterday. Against new/clueless players she can destroy a group in seconds. Against players that have a clue there is little that you can do. The PTB version was fine. Let's just revert to that, shall we?
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Thx! I'm glad more people understand now. Balancing around people that are completely oblivious to her mechanic is not balancing.
And for the people that want to tell me something about kill rates right now : I'm relatively certain, that she doesn't even drop that hard right now. Why would she? She got 2 reworks in 8 months. I can't blame people for not keeping up with any update on a complex killer design. It's 100% understandable that people are clueless right now.
But if they start to understand and show basic level awareness, her power just crumbles to ash.
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There is a reason to play her.
Dedication. I genuinely want this character to succeed. The best I can do right now is play her, record my gameplay and look at the problems she has.
(something that should maybe not come down to some dedicated people)
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I played her a bit more and her condemned is nearly not existing and all the relevant TVs are always turned off.
As I said I wanted her old version, I wanted everything how it was with buffs and not that I can‘t use her TVs. Also her teleport is in his weakest state ever.
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At least the good news is that BHVR have saod they listened to the reaction about Sadako's changes from PTB to release, and have said they'll be doing alterations in the upcoming hotfixes, so hopefully this will mean good things.
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i am not struggling vs onryo
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Yeah nah, I did a ton of testing between the PTB and Live, Live Sadako is way worse because of those changes.
And heck, I've gotten lots of 4ks as current Sadako. The thing is, I haven't gotten more than maybe 2-3 condemned stacks if they don't ignore the tapes. Against good teams, I've had to consider tunneling and proxy because I had no condemned pressure due to the ease of tapes and no tactical TV movements since you need to pump out that condemned and not waste a teleport to get any value.
I think the only reason I stand a fair chance is I use the Photograph addon and manifest at specific times for information on movement and I have a lot of hours on Sadako's M1 game due to 1.0 Sadako. Anyone else who used Sadako for condemned or stealth is suffering very hard. And heck, my VCR/Deadman's Switch combo is hanging by a thread due to the TVs being highlighted.
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you can't stop entire team from doing that. Your 1 killer against 4 survivors. I can only be in 1 place at once but survivor can be in 4 places at once. The best way to get condemn kills right now is to burn Gideon's offering or Hawkin Offering and TP spam televisions. you don't hook anyone. You only spam TV's until someone is condemned.
On those two maps, you can use videotape copy add-on which increases projection radius by +2 meters. those two maps are small enough that condemn is almost global and unavoidable. I burned 10 map offering and got condemn kills in every game on those maps. In terms trying to this on like Badham preschool, it is not worth it.
Post edited by Devil_hit11 on0 -
I still get condemn moris without what you describe. I must be a magician then.
I'm think I'm gonna upload my matches to YouTube. I think you havr to see to understand.
Edit: here i go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9OhBytP46Y
This was a really good match , showcasing why she can still work.
Post edited by radiantHero23 on0 -
I have two things to say about that game.
The first is that survivor your playing against haven't done a gen in 5 minutes. At 10:00, they are still at 3 gens.... after 5 more minutes has passed and everyone is still alive. the first gen they pop is at 5:12 minutes. I wish my games were this slow. A strong team would be at like 1 gen.
Secondly, Nea got condemned at around 4:27. Why didn't you mori her? Nea's play makes no sense but your play makes less sense.
Your not a magician. The team your playing against is not good. The condemn works for player that play like Nea. New player that do not know what they're doing.
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I knew that you would say that. I waited for it.
This was a match where she actually felt powerful. Why did she feel that way? Because, as you said it yourself : they played bad.
I didn't want to stomp, so I gave them more chances.
Wanna see matches against VERY decent survivors next? You can choose : Rpd, Azarovs, Gas heaven, Erie of crows and treatment theater. The last one is 20min.
She's good against unaware survivors. Not good against decent survivors.
Shes undertuned. I'm winning because I'm literally super sweating against even decent survivors.
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The thing with the recent nerfs is that they're clearly trying to make condemned the same as moris. With how hard it is to apply, but it gets locked on hook, they only want people getting a condemn kill if the survivor is dead on hook.
The failure comes from the fact that the stall condemn is MEANT to bring is the bulk of the value of her power. With how unthreatening it is, and how the only real risk is you might not be able to trigger a perk like DS when you're dead on hook anyway, who REALLY cares if you get morid on death hook? So all the parts of her power meant to keep survivors busy to balance how weak she is in chases just don't work, so she's just a weak killer with a gimmick.
They need to find the balance point where condemned is threatening enough to force you to interact with it, but not so passively threatening that players who haven't even seen the killer are able to be condemn killed on first down.
And therein lies the problem. BHVR doesn't tweak and adjust and see if things move in the right direction. They buff and nerf 50 things at once, it wildly changes the killer, and then they still haven't fixed the problem because it just becomes broken in the other direction.
Like in all honesty, from last patches Sadako, they should have just made condemned go from global on teleport to something like 32m around the tv. See how that goes. Don't screw around with all the tape mechanics, and cooldowns, and add ons, and manifest mechanics at the same time. Make one, significant change, see how it goes, and see if more is needed after that.
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I hope they go back to the mechanics off her first version and buff most parts. In my opinion it was the best version. It allowed good teleport gameplay and ok condmened.
I would have made that the amount of condemned you get from teleports depends on your proximity to TVs. 0,5stack (20-16m); 1stack 16-10m and 2stacks 10-0m.
I would also keep the buffs from the other versions and maybe make that TVs don‘t turn of through teleports.
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Oh no it was completely broken as a play style.
Its legit in the notes what they were doing. The people saying "just take a tape" as if survivors were blatantly ignoring the mechanic are just straight lying.
Glad they made this change as it was a silly strategy to just teleport around, deny TV's, and not interact with the hook mechanic at all.
Globally by the way. Total cope to defend this, you have to really just enjoy basic cheating to think it was fun.
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People are overreacting to everything
Different day, same ‘Killer is underwhelming’ gripes and moans soundtrack on repeat
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First: something that is put in the game by the devs is not cheating by any means.
Second: we are talking about the changes from Ptb to live. Not from pre 7.5.0 to post 7.5.0. On the Ptb was a hook mechanic that encouraged hooking rather than slugging. Now that it's nerfed, slugging is again more effective. If you can't see how backwards this is, I don't know what to say.
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Have you played her?
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A few matches. Trying not to DBD too much, anymore😌
I play her basically the same way I did when I bought her. Sadako went from just fine, to easy mode, and back to fine again, imo. nbd, really
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I mained her back then. She was not in a good spot. The ptb version was great but for some reason, they saw fit to ignore the feedback and nerf her.
Shes by no means the worst killer in the game. Shes very much playable. Shes just not what we envisioned her to be, which is very dissapointing.
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Good news everyone! There's a screenshot of a response from Peanits on Reddit.
I can't post the link here apparently but I can summarize. I don't use Reddit so idk if you can search for the post for verification, but it was posted yesterday by a user Electronic-Ad9758.
What's changing in the next patch:
- Removed the Condemned cooldown
- Increased the number of Condemned stacks that lock in when a Survivor is hooked to 3 (was 2)
- Increased the Projection movement speed boost duration to 2 seconds (was 1.5)
- Increased movement speed while Manifesting to 4 m/s (was 3.68)
If this is true, I am VERY pleased. Basically 1 and 2 are what everyone wanted. Extra boost duration is like basekit Bloody Fingernails (50% of 1.5 is 2.25 seconds) and I'm curious if they adjust Bloody Fingernails or if it would bring the boost duration to 3 seconds.
Also, the wiki hasn't been adjusted since the 2nd rework but it had speed while manifesting as 4 m/s. Maybe it was wrong or they had nerfed it to 3.68 m/s and are setting it back to 4. I'm hoping it'll feel better, regardless.
I don't think I can complain anymore if / when these go live. But there are 3 small things I'd like addressed in the future:
- Make the TV spawn algorithm better. I'm sure this is not an easy fix so I'm not holding my breath, but it'd make some maps much better for Sadako.
- Turn the new Iri Tape like a green and make another Iri Tape add on. There are tons of great suggestions, and I certainly would love to hear that serotonin inducing BONG sound. Making VCR show fake projections to make it more convincing or buffing Telephone numbers would be very welcome, too. Her add ons are kinda weak and I'd love some more variety.
- Maybe survivors can only see the auras of powered TVs from 8-12 meters instead of 16 m. This could also be an add on.
That's basically everything I could want from Sadako. Locking in 3 stacks of Condemn makes hooking more beneficial for late game Condemn pressure. Survivors can be easily punished by multiple teleports if they don't pick up Tapes, as they should be. The counterplay remains simple and easy, but Sadako should have an easier time getting enough Condemn pressure to slow the game down. The movement speed buffs are welcome quality of life changes.
I think our feedback was heard this time, and I will give BHVR a lot of credit when these changes come through. I know the team is too small and there are simply too many killers and perks to balance DBD correctly - slowly and methodically. I'm happy they took another look at Sadako and even when they nerfed her afterwards, they are (hopefully) quickly fixing her again. I wish all the best for their planned Twins and Freddy reworks.
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"Also, the wiki hasn't been adjusted since the 2nd rework"
That is incorrect. If you check out the change log on Sadako's wiki page, it's already updated to the new changes.
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I feel like there's nothing that only she can do. It just has multiple mutually compatible or backward compatible abilities of various killers, and it doesn't feel refreshing to use.
Only groups of survivors who don't know how to deal with it will have a chance to use Simple Memento, but as time passes, the number of such people will decrease. It only works against casual players who don't read patch notes.
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