https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/472588/future-of-dead-by-daylight-forums
SWFS are only 3% more likely to win than SoloQ (OFFICIAL STATS)
Comments
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3% overall, but in High MMR it's almost a 10% gap. Basically showing that the more experience, the more advantage that coordinating gives.
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Either way, a 9% difference isn't that significant, and less than it used to be (15%). This just goes to show that SWF aren't as huge of a problem as some like to make out they are.
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Also this shows that there is basically no difference between SoloQ, Duo and Trio.
The overall survivor rate is the same, and in High MMR there is only a 3% gap.
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Who could've seen this coming.....
ALSO, LMAO, 39% ER is still accurate.
SWF only matters at high MMR, even Solo in high MMR is bad and the ER for 4-mans is still sub-50. The horrible awful so OP high mmr swf's aren't even escaping HALF the time
Also shows that SWF really doesn't matter unless it's all four.
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I mean anyone not horrendously drenched in bias could've seen this coming.
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The duo one I'm not surprised by. The trio one I thought would be a bit higher. The 4 swf I'm not surprised by.
So if the killrate is supposed to be aimed for 60%, then that means 4 mans are overperforming a lot while 3 means are barely going over.
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Doubling down on the 60% kill rate to keep the horror theme of the game is concerning when no one even plays this like a horror game in Lights Out mode.
You can’t have an MMR system if it’s forced and not an even chance of winning every game.
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Overall KR Average is 58.50%, a bit under the target of 60% KR, a slight overall buff to killers in general is needed
High MMR 4 man SWF is 48 % not a surprise, that's why SWF should be nerfed
High MMR soloQ 39% a bit under 40% they can perfom well but need to be slightly buffed
Those number mean SWF and SoloQ need two separate mode and a separate balancing, BHVR can't keep working as survivors thinking they are just a single group becuase they aren't
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I mean from memory, 50% killrates wasn't good. If 60% is too much then they should probably aim for 55%.
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58% is likely fine. This is an average against all killers, so some individual killers might be underperforming and need some buffs.
On the reverse some killers also might be overperforming and need some nerfs.
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I’m simply saying that you can’t have an unnatural MMR system that tries to force outcomes to hit a benchmark number instead of actually matching people close in skill and giving them a 50/50 shot of winning any given match. A little swing is fine, but 10% is forced and flawed for a system like this.
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Skull Merchant with a 70% KR
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No, you see, at high, high, high MMR in my region on my server in my geographical area with my ISP in my IP address range on my subnet, 4 man SWF is unbeatable. My two games against 4 man SWF this week are more meaningful than the aggregate data from millions of matches. SWF OP
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Indeed, some tweek and and there, some need to be buffed while other nerfed, overall they are bit under the 60%, just a bit, they are in a pretty good spot, just few QoL could help to reach the 60% without ruining the statistics
What really need to be looked at is the 48% in the High MMR 4 men SWF
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I mean Skull Merchant is people giving up and some not knowing how to play against her. I'm not saying she is fun to vs just stating that she clearly has a high killrate from other means then just the killer being good.
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It’s problematic either way though
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How and why would you nerf SWF without destroying survivors in general and only because that 5% of the total (High MMR) is 'problematic'?
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Apply that same logic to the 4-man SWF then.
Maybe Killers just give up and don't know how to play against them.
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I agree. I'm just saying that people shouldn't view skull merchant as a killer that is too strong.
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How are killers supposed to know survivors playing 4-men SWF or not?
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...Not that I think a 4-man SWF is a huge balance problem or anything, but it's observable that people do give up and go next against Skull Merchant, and anecdotally, people on the forums here also seem to have some misconceptions about how her power works.
The same isn't observably true about killers giving up against a 4-man. Not knowing how to play against them, sure, that's probably reasonable, that part I don't disagree with.
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Now I feel bad when I'm the solo to a 3-man swf. Us solo players are probably dragging their team down and that's why they don't perform much better 🤣 sorry guys
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'Why' is called cherry picking the data to fit what they've already decided should be the result. Everything else except one number is being ignored completely here.
'How' is absolutely going to be killer buffs. Likely 'give back old Eruption' or some crap.
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BHVR should decide if this game is designed for SoloQ or SWF and then balance the game around this decision ( for example, a ranked mode only for SoloQ and a casual mode for swf )
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I mean if there was a consistent means to know when it actually is a 4 man sure. But if there was I'm pretty sure most killers would just dodge them. There are definitely killers that say they go against 4 man's when it's actually just 4 soloq survivors that are good.
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Seems I was right, that solo queue is not quite so bad after all.
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Honestly kind of impressed BHVR has managed to get the gap between solo and SWF to less than 10%. I remember when they showed the difference a few years ago it was like 15% or something which was awful.
And honestly the gap is probably a bit less since solo players are much more likely to just give up and throw.
Still much more they should do to help solo queue and SWF will always be better, but it’s nice to see that the improvements they are making are actually working.
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39% solo escape rate.. This is fine :")
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You can't nerf SWFs without nerfing SoloQ in general that's what I was referring to.
For the same reason killer perks shouldn't be nerfed just cause Nurse/Blight exist.
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I think a lot of Killers do give up and write matches off at the slightest hint of them having to really struggle.
Seems pretty obvious that Solo Q is just getting rolled and Duo and Trio isn't much better; so it wouldn't be unreasonable for a Killer to assume (and we know they do) that anything that causes them difficulty is due to 4-man SWF
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On the other hand, you can't buff SoloQ without buffing even more SWF and, according to numbers, SoloQ need to be slightly buffed
As said, that's a problem bhvr have to solve one day, they can't work on survivors whitout noticing the huge difference between SoloQ and SWF
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From their benchmark of a 60% kill rate, yes. From the standpoint of actual player experience, it sucks.
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Sure, but that doesn't really translate to talking about Skull Merchant. Killers writing matches off as soon as they become difficult will 100% apply to solo/duo/trio matches too, and there's no ambiguity as to what killer you're facing.
It's just a false equivalence.
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Doesn't this basically mean that at the highest levels of play, a survivors chance of is pretty close to 50/50?
Also is this an individual survivors chance of survival? If so, this doesn't show how many other people died in that same match... Thus this can't be interpreted as a 48% chance at high MMR for 1 survivor to die... I'm not sure what value I would actually expect here.
I feel like I'd like to have way more data to really understand these values.
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Am I the only one who actually thinks these numbers are better than we assumed before? I thought SoloQ would be more in the 20%'s and 4 man SWFs would be at 50%.
If the developers want things to be a 60/40 in favor of killer, it's going well by the numbers. We all know nuance though, and with all the different killer powers/addons/builds and survivor stuff you definitely feel a difference in-game. Makes me want to see individual killer killrates based on MMR brackets as well, especially seeing Doctor at the bottom.
As a side note, I still think clearer information in-game for survivor via a compendium on killers/powers/items/addons/perks easily accessible to research why they lose to a killer would be nice, with notices on killer updates/changes. Could help raise the lower %'s a tad, if survivors bother to read it anyway. We'd also need to address the need for killers to tunnel someone out and a reasonable fix.
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My sentiments exactly. The devs set the bar, and they achieved it. I have no idea how solo survivor is 40% escape rate, but I guess it proves that solo que issue is a mindset issue.
This doesn't prove any one side is better than the other, and its a shame that delusional people try to twist it to say "SEEEEE X IS TOO GOOD OR BAD, MUH STATS SHOWS IT" whenever we get these stats
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Well time to delete Nurse and Blight since they are no longer needed, oh wait I meant Skull Merchant and Onryo, too op.
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The official stats also show that skull merchant is the best killer in the game, and nurse is one of the worst.
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Given how much people complain about tunneling and proxy camping, it doesn't seem to be skewering the kill rates towards Killers significantly. If anything, if more Killers didn't proxy camp or tunnel, the kill rates will probably be even lower
I was expecting the overall kill rate to be well over 60%
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39% is just average for Solo.
Im not a good survivor, plus not using meta so probably Im below the average.
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This was the goal wasn't it.
Narrow the gap between SWF and Solo and balance around a 60/40 Kill/escape rate.
Looks like behavior hit the nail on the head (for the most part) and got game outcome to where they were planning it to be.
Guess all the naysayers will have to pack up their bags and just go play the game and stop whining about it now... bummer eh.
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I think it is worth noting that 2 swf has a lower survival rate than solo q and has identical survival rates at average and high mmr. Also noteworthy is that 2 player swf is the most commonly played version of swf. It is only at high mmr 4 player swf that the survival rate is substantially higher (and even then below 50%). The only logical conclusion is that SWF is not the problem that the forums would have you believe.
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Depends on your criteria. I can live with an organic 40% even though I think a PVP game should be closer 50/50. But it feels like a contrived 40%. Like 50% of the time I lose the game the second I loaded into the lobby with those teammates, 30% I won the second I loaded into the lobby with those teammates, and 20% of my games actually feel like an organic toss-up.
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The kill rate is higher than this in reality. Note the part where they left DC matches out even though they have bots now. They must significantly change the kill rates if they felt the need to remove it from the data entirely. Edit : I stand by what I said awhile back. True escape rate is probably 30-35%.
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Yeah I would imagine games where a survivor DCs is very likely a 3k for most
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It's not that deep. Some people claim that solo queue is nearly unplayable and they die all the time. This clearly shows that the escape rates are pretty much exactly where BHVR want them.
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Deleting SM? My dreams are a reality
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I think it really depends on when you play. If I play solo during normal hours then my escape rate is consistently well above the average. If I play late at night or in the early morning then I get destroyed in most matches. I get paired with nothing but sweatlords during off hours. Playing solo during off hours is one of the worst experiences I have ever had in gaming.
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This is called moving the goal posts. Killers can DC too.
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We really going to pretend like killers DC anywhere near as much as survivors?
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