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Infinite Vaults with COL
Comments
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It can already happen before the perk came out people do it all the time to make the killer lose blood lust literally only works against bad killers he even admitted the killers were new he was using yellow bamboozle did you even watch the whole video or did you just watch the intro. ... Nurse is not hard to play lol all it takers is like 10 hours of playing her. you cant do it at the places you named you will run out of flashlight to quickly.
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Everyone was using MfT because it was a busted perk that rewarded getting hit (failing in a chase).
The point is good perk ≠ busted perk/popular perk. It’s fine for some perks to require a modicum of skill to use.
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You cant do this against a killer that can actually play all these killers were babies.
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This will only work against new killers all these killers were new. The huntress didn't even know how to break a pallet. The blight didn't know how to use his power and the demo had yellow bam.
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great so a better reason to remove it because it can easily be abused against new killers
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Just to remind people Hens did an indepth guide on the Shift Tech before COL was a thing Now with COL its definitely alot easier to pull off thanks to the fixated + CoL speeds with hinder. Obviously good blights and other Movement killers wont have a problem with this but i can say with M1 Killers is a miserable experience to face against the distance you gain is gamechanging
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Do you think this perk is good against good and high tier killers, or only killers that are low level?
Because then Boil Over is S tier since it works so well against newbie killers.
The idea of a perk being good for survivors is that it is self-reliant and scales with skill against a skilled killer too. I think that's what a lot of people want especially if they're playing solo.
Because in a team setting other perks become a lot more reliable and strong due to co-ordination (like Deliverance, sabo strategies, Power Struggle). It's also why a perk like WoO is so popular for a lot of survivors (and I would assume a lot of solo survivors). Cause you don't have to rely on your teammates to get value out of it. And it's as useful as you are good at looping.
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It may not be game changing or fantastic against the “high tier” killers like Nurse, but it can still be useful to waste their time with a well executed flashlight save.
Boil Over was never S-tier, it was just a frustrating perk due to poor hook spawns on certain maps. It is also countered by Iron Grasp or Agitation (except if the killer fell from a high place while carrying, I don’t remember if those perks helped in that situation). It’s also countered by slugging. Some people just wanted to complain because they didn’t want to change up their build with something to counter it.
This is a team based game with the option to play selfishly or you can consider it a solo game with the option to play in coordination with your team. Everyone is going to look at it differently. Not all perks need to scale for solo and teamwork. I do agree that there should be some more “selfish” perks for solo oriented players, but devs don’t have unlimited time to come up with them.
I do think they should at least come out with 2 perks a year that helps solo, but I understand it’s difficult to do when you have to worry about Swf abusing them. It’s the nature of the game it won’t change in the near future.
I also hope that they’ll be a bit more adventurous and come out with more one time use powerful perks for survivor that disable after using them, such as Deliverance and DS. Something like marking two lockers and being able to teleport between them once throughout the match, even if in chase.
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I think it's a silly argument to claim this game is team based with how little communication and co-ordination is allowed in DBD for non-SWF survivors. They only added the icons next to the survivors face like last year. BHVR is very resistant on giving solo survivors any kind of tools to co-ordinate etc. Otherwise you would have all sorts of features around it. You don't even have to add mandatory voicechat to it. I just think they're scared of it, so they keep solo survivors handicapped.
I don't even think the killrates would be affected all that much either if they implemented certain co-ordination features.
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You can’t unhook yourself if you don’t bring in the proper perk.
You can’t heal yourself if you don’t bring in the proper perk.
You can’t do gens if another Survivor doesn’t take chase.
You can’t cleanse a hex if another Survivor doesn’t take the chase.
You can’t solve the Lament Configuration without the killer being distracted by your teammate.
It is not silly to claim this is a team game. Even with no information, before the active HUD, I’ve experienced plenty of matches with little to no direct communication to where we all did great in a trial due to our teamwork. All it took was a little game awareness.
SoloQ doesn’t need anything more than a “I’m going for the hook rescue” preset chat option. Even without it, using game sense, you can see when someone lets go of a gen and make the assumption that they’re going for the save.
The main problem with SoloQ isn’t communication, it’s matchmaking and Selfishness. SWFs main strength is being able to select your teammates and bypass matchmaking. Comms is an added benefit.
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I really don't understand the resistance to giving more features to survivor, so that decent survivors can actually use them.
Playing against regression/slowdown/3-gen requires more than the co-ordination you do with your solo teammates, at least last time I checked. Delaying someone being tunneled out also requires a lot more co-ordination than you can get from being solo. Knowing how to counter certain killer perks and letting your team know what they have as well, is also beyond the power of solo.
Like what is the argument here? League has a ping system and an ingame chat. Chinese DBD actually shows you what sort of teammates you're getting and the perks they're running (not 1 for 1 perks as in DBD). You can even try and co-ordinate because you can ping your team your location, ask for help etc. And despite all that killers are still stronger in general imo, because it's easy to ######### up. What is DBD's excuse for not including those features really? And what is your excuse for being against it?
They either don't know how to implement them or are scared to do so, cause killers do inflate their killrate over survivor's lacking info, which is stupid and there's no skill involved there. The survivors are already at a disadvantage over not knowing the killer. So much information denial that the game refuses to let survivors on the SAME team share amongst each other sounds conspiratorial.
You don't even have to care for it yourself and them implementing it won't affect you since you're ok with the state of solo survivor as it is currently.
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I’m not resistant to it, I just don’t think it’s vital. If the devs decided to add it, great for SoloQ, if they don’t, meh, it’s not that important.
Nothing you mentioned needs more communication, it just requires experience and game sense.
Again, never said I was against it, just that more information isn’t necessary for a good match. If it was, then the game would have died a long time ago.
My point is, it’s not the lack of communication for SoloQs misery. It’s the fact that people:
- Suicide on first hook because they’re either impatient, angry the chase didn’t go as planned or are facing a killer/map that they don’t like.
- Hide and do nothing throughout the match because they’re afraid of gens.
- Throw the game because they tried to imitate their favorite streamer, thinking they’re just as good as said streamer.
No amount of information will fix the above and the complaints will continue until the day BHVR decides it’s no longer worth it to support the game.
League is not Dbd and mobile Dbd has its own issues with lack of precise controls with the fact that it’s mainly run on touchscreens.
The devs don’t have an agenda against SoloQ. They’ve been notoriously slow to do anything. How long did it take them to nerf DH and DS? How long after nerfing Moris did it take them to nerf Keys? It’s just how they are.
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it is intended. the way bloodlust works in this game is that the more survivor runs, the bloodlust meter builds-up but walking to flashlight counts as walking. As a result, you lose bloodlust. Fixated+Champion of light is 70% faster walking speed. Regular walking speed in the game is 2.62 m/s or 56% m/s.
Assuming I did not make any math errors, a survivor that walks with flashlight with fixated+champion of light moves at 4.068 m/s. 4.068 m/s is ~101%. So you get 1% MFT when using a flashlight and you do not build bloodlust but you move the speed of a running survivor.
bloodlust does not build up when walking.
It works as long as your flashlight battery life exists. You will eventually run out of battery charge so it will never create infinities unless you invent a infinity battery flashlight. it is funny how they managed to make flashlights into anti-blood lust item.
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Then call them pseudo infinites. You can't loop the killer forever. Only for 20 minutes (or however long you can keep the battery up). The point is, that you can loop a killer for the entire game around the same structure without it getting blocked. It's definitely an issue and it cannot stay.
Post edited by Xernoton on4 -
It cant though if mmr works lol i promise you i can do this to any killer with less then 100 hours without the perk.
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why would they change the perk when they could just make the chase requirements different
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because the chase requirements are based around bloodlust any competent survivor knows on certain loops you don't hold shift you just walk that's why fixated is so underrated. When walking you get out of chase and the killer cant build bloodlust and will actualy make the timer go down and they will have to build it up again.
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Na, its only a tech when its a survivor thing. But killer techs are definitely exploits.
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20 minutes is misleading. a flashlight lasts somewhere between 20-26 second at most with streetwise with 2 batteries depending on if you use green or purple flashlight. I would not consider this as problematic but more of a build that can bully baby/bad killers that rely on bloodlust to win chases.
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I do think Devs need to look at increasing the distance to initiate a chase like a 5 meter increase also to make it a chase if a survivor is walking
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Don't forget built to last may not be an infinite flashlight but you sure can waste a whole match worth of time against the killer
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They could also just make the window blocker not be tied to chases, which is the only really problematic part with this.
Why not make it so fast vaulting the same window 3 times within a minute or so causes the window to be blocked, regardless of if you are in a chase or proximity to the killer.
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Honestly a good idea don't know why its tied to chases only
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Because I would assume if you fast vault it while not in chase and the chase starts 3 seconds later at shack you only get 2 window vaults now. So effectively you lost chase it trying to be at a certain place fast while not in chase (say you have quick and quiet and gioing for some sort of save. That also feels unfair and it removes a lot of skill expression from survivors who can delay killer's Bloodlust build up.
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True that is something I didn't consider and that would be affected, even though I think that is already pretty rare. They could still fix that issue by having the 60 second (or whatever amount) window only trigger after a chase first begins. So for example - chase begins and now for as long as the chase continues and 60 or so seconds after the chase is broken then the window gets blocked after 3 fast vaults.
Bloodlust wouldn't be affected in anyway. This only would affect the window blocking. Nothing I've said would have any effect on Bloodlust. You can still walk to break chase and stop Bloodlust, it just wouldn't stop the window from blocking. No skill expression would be lost except for the ones built around exploits like the one this thread is about.
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Same thing can be said for this perk/exploit. It's probably as rare if not more than my scenario AND it requires that the survivors is good. It's also the same argument for why hug tech Blights should remain in the game.
Also no one has proved at any point whether this exploit is a dependable strategy against good killers, or if it's just a cheesy thing.
And this is also a paid perk on top of it.
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You don't use the flashlight for more than 2 seconds at a time and you get an easy 20 seconds of extra time out of it, if you use it at the right loops. Sometimes even more.
The fact of the matter is, that the killer absolutely cannot chase that survivor around that structure under any circumstances. This is the same effect that infinites had. And because all 4 survivors can do this, it is indeed a problem. Yes, you can immediately stop chasing when someone reaches one of these structures but at some point you will need a down and the first hit is enough to give them the distance to get to that structure.
This has nothing to do with "baby killers". There is no mind game to beat this and you cannot give up every chase just because they run towards a good structure.
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your still moving 14% faster. it is time sink like every infinity type window in the game. these windows are time sink regardless of the build. flashlight build simply extends the time sink further by some 20 seconds. It further disincentives the killer to not chase survivors near such places.
Shack window is not an infinity loop. you can win the mindgame at the window but it is survivor favoured. If you were relying on shack window or every generic window to block to win loops then you are likely playing poorly in the chase as killer.
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so if a survivor who is in chase pretends they are not in chase they get to make the killer lose bloodlust for free, sounds like a gap in design that should be fixed
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Yep, another thing I sometimes do is use it in a build with fixated, vigil, sprint burst. If you use it you run at sprint speed but the game thinks you are walking, which enables the infinite vaults/no blood lust, but also allows you to recharge exhaustion.
The duration is limited even with the best Add-Ons, but it still can come in clutch when sometimes your exhaustion is almost gone but the killer is too close to walk.
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The lack of willingness to learn. The same goes for killers. If you want me to provide a list for killers, just ask.
We have a lot of people in this game that want their hand held in every situation. There are people that think the shack isn't a good loop, pre dropping is the only way to play, killers using their powers to guarantee hits leaves them with no counterplay (when they should have avoided that situation in the first place), aura reading to find survivors is overpowered because it's a hide and seek (which has not been the case for as long as I have played), killers are too fast... You name it.
In other games they'd just be told to "git gud" (not very helpful but it does have some truth to it) but in DBD we have 2 hive minds that will just jump on whatever one sided argument is in their favor and try to defend it.
I get that DBD is a hard game and it doesn't help that the tutorials don't teach you about proper looping and even playing safe but it's not like you can expect to play without putting any effort into it and still win all your games (at least it shouldn't). You see how popular WoO is and you can tell as a killer who uses it. The worst part is that Blindness makes these survivors run around like headless chicken.
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I mean to be fair bloodlust is a hand holding mechanic for killers who are new to the game and have low skill. Also the trade off is the survivor is walking which if the killer is good then he can mind game and catch them easily.
Post edited by Hexling on0 -
I don't think the people who play one a week or a month when their friends play are in this forum to complain. I would assume most people who are here care somewhat about the game, but it is the nature of games that woth every meta shift the players might have to re-learn the game etc. And that doesn't always mean they can adjust just as well. It's true in every game and it's also why some pros might become "washed out". It's a darwinian principle in practice evolve or begone. So to claim people don't wanna learn etc. is short sighted. I think the game just changes too fast for the people to manage to learn, especially when now they might actually go to work and not able to play Dbd for 3+ hours at the time.
So people who learned how to play back in 2019 might have trouble adjusting for various practocal as well as personal reasons (maybe they are bad at adjusting etc.). I think this conversation could do with a lot more nuance as I don't think it's just DBD players who might have trouble. I think in any game people will think their opponent is hacking or scripting, heck once even I was accused and I am average at best.
BHVR's stance also doesn't help. They say one thing but do another. They say it's a party game but balance mostly for high level.
I also think that BHVR is not always transparent but which company is? I do think they are more concerned with retaining killers than vice versa, because I would assume a large percentage of survivors play more rarely, since they might only play when their whole squad is available, which can be hard to co-ordinate, and not play solo. So yeah those two populations are playing with very different mindsets. But I do think survivors who play solo are probably a lot closer to killer players in mindset imo.
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Huntress can snipe easy now using certain fov settings and using gen as a marker.
Why hasn't this been discussed?
It's the same thing.
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It's not just those that play every so often but even regular players. Sometimes players with hundreds or thousands of hours. If you play so little, then of course you won't learn the game. But you can't expect to have an easy time getting into the game and get your few wins out of it, when it's so obvious that you are hopelessly outmatched (something that MMR will correct eventually but not immediately).
For the last 5 years, looping has been agreed upon to be the most efficient way of delaying a killer. Yet, how many people with thousands of hours have you seen that could not play beyond pre drop and Shift + W? I played against a supposed comp player (that's what they wrote on their steam profile) a while ago and I was honestly very disappointed. The first mind game around shack gave me a hit because they couldn't use check spots. That's something even I, a pretty bad survivor player, can do. The same happens around jungle gyms and sometimes even main buildings like on GoJ. When you have so much time to wait and react. It baffles me.
I have also observed what I call WoO syndrome. If it doesn't glow yellow, then it doesn't exist. Survivor players that are affected by blindness sometimes run straight past strong pallets and go down. Because the entire map is a dead zone. The GoJ main building is a dead zone and the entire The Game map is one large dead zone. At least to players who absolutely cannot play without their favorite crutch. This again, affects players with more play time than me.
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That's exactly what this is, a cheater. Cheating doesn't require hack use. Cheating can also be using exploits.
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Hm..yeah but for the MMR to correct itself you have to assume it works. And it also probably/normally doesn't require 100+ games to do so.
I agree that a lot of hours played doesn't mean the player is good. People here use it the same way they use "high MMR". It doesn't prove anything, in league there was a notorious case of a player who had many hours (like they played daily over 2 hours) and they were still stuck in bronze (lowest rank), so playing a game a lot won't necessarily make you better.
I can't contribute on the WoO, I don't notice how my teammates play with or without it. I personally use it very sparingly after I have a match where I keep running into deadzones where I expect the pallets to be but they have been used up already.
I don't know about the comp player, I guess anyone who takes part into competitive matches could count as "comp" despite belonging to the worst team etc. They could also be having an off days, who knows. Or maybe their little brother was playing on their account🤣
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Hm..yeah but for the MMR to correct itself you have to assume it works. And it also probably/normally doesn't require 100+ games to do so.
This would assume that MMR even works that well. Which to some degree it does but seeing as how far skill disparities on survivor teams can go, I'm not sure that the system works well enough to balance it as fast as it should. I can go into more detail, if my point is unclear but I think you get the idea.
I can't contribute on the WoO, I don't notice how my teammates play with or without it. I personally use it very sparingly after I have a match where I keep running into deadzones where I expect the pallets to be but they have been used up already.
Do you typically use Bond by any chance? I do (mostly combined with Open Handed because I find this information to be quite strong) and I can usually tell when someone has it even as a survivor. There is like a short moment where they will pause around a loop or slightly adjust and then run in straight line to the next pallet. It's even more obvious, when they never look behind themself.
As a killer it's easier to tell because you're closer to the action though.
I don't know about the comp player, I guess anyone who takes part into competitive matches could count as "comp" despite belonging to the worst team etc. They could also be having an off days, who knows. Or maybe their little brother was playing on their account🤣
Definitely possible. But from what I've seen most comp survivors at least aren't actually that great in the 1v1 aspect of the game (killers often are pretty good with their powers, which are often anti loop). In most comp games survivors pre drop (no matter the killer) and keep distance as much as possible. It's pretty rare to see them partaking in normal looping. At least that is how it looks to me.
On both sides it often feels like skillful plays are not rewarded.
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less of a hand hold more of a bandaid for bad design and unfair rng, ive gotten long wall into shack window a couple times, at no point in that loop would I have been able to mindgame successfully since there are no wrong moves on the survivors part.
at best it lets the killer waste a bunch of time not realizing they are making a mistake or doing so which is usually an easy win for survivors at that point
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Exactly so hand holding them
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nope I take it back now its not hand holding and you have no evidence it is
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It means.... there's an answer for tunneling until one or the other is patched? I agree!
Im kidding ofc. Mostly.
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Only good killers can win without it and the evidence is when they turned it off as a test only good killers had no problem still winning and killers who suck at chase and rely on perks lost.
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only the bad killers in the tier list even get bloodlust so yeah sure nerf the low tier killers im sure there are no problems with that
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I get what you mean about MMR and I witness it too in the mornings I play or when I change servers (I play a lot on Geforce and although I'm in Europe I sometimes change my server to US so I can skip the queue due to the timezone). In the mornings the MMR is all over the place.
I do use chance, but I still don't pay attention, I'm more pre-occupied with checking where the killer is or healing teammates who are injured, so I can't say I can guess when someone has WoO unfortunately.
Hm..yeah maybe. But I feel like this goes back to the state of the game. You don't have to be an exceptional looper to win, you just need to have good teamplay, which is very difficult for solo. That's why I personally wish survivors individually were stronger so the best looper had more impact etc. It feels like looping keeps getting nerfed and you have to win through other means that are beyond solo's control. At least my looping I can control and I can work on it instead of the random chance of what teammates I get etc. That's what I'd like more about the game, I feel it doesn't reward individual skill enough, like even when it comes to pips, you could loop for 3 gens and maybe die or get hooked and you don't get enough BP or even a guaranteed pip despite having a lot of impact in the game and ofc it still doesn't guarantee you a win for obvious reasons. It feels like you have to be significantly better than the killer to outplay them and not just a tad better to make a difference, which makes no sense cause you're supposedly playing against a killer of about the same skill.
Running 4 slowdowns/regressions also feels the same way. It's just buying enough time to make the game a guarantee win for the killer, because you can make it last 20+ mins. It would be nice if the survivors also had a come back so killers couldn't rely on drawing the game out and instead would have to close a game around 15 mins and at most 20 mins and then risk having the game turned around. Just my opinion.
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Every killer gets blood lust their is no official tier list lol. You can get bloodlust with blight and spirit or are those low tier killers lol.
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Yes every killer gets bloodlust but all killers with powers besides dredge lose it extremely easily, only killers who go long periods of time without any power use get bloodlust and usually they are bottom of the barrel because they just spent 15s chasing after a survivor as a 4.6 killer more likely than not in a straight line.
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Thats because those powers either hinder the survivor or are ranged attacks.
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Yep that what it do yugi, and killers who don't have powers who normal chase get bloodlust
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But every killer has a power lol. Name one that doesn't have a unique power ill wait.
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