I can't be the only who just can't play against someone using dms,grim,pain res and corrupt
I know this might come off as weird, but I just find the perk combo so boring to play up against because you are not only blocking off one gen for an amount of time, but every gen is blocked and the fact that dms and grim stack with each other i find pretty unfair because at this point i had 5 games in a row end a 5 gens because of this perk build. And before people come after me and say I only play survivor, I play both sides and used the perk myself. I don't see how this perk build is "fair". In any way at all, I might need some outside perspective on this, but for me, this current killer meta is just really bad.
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The only problem is Grim embrace that make this combo a miserable experiencie.
PR and DMS are easy to counter and corrupt is not a problem on my view.
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4 slowdown perks aren't exactly fun to play against. So you're not the only one. It doesn't feel good when any progress you've made is just instantly removed or your only objective is blocked and you can do nothing other than sitting around and waiting.
Although I think, when it comes to strength, the current slowdown meta isn't all that bad. Also, you should be able to get at least 1-2 gen done despite Corrupt. This implies, that the killer played pretty well. Otherwise they couldn't have activated all their slowdown perks frequently enough to stop your progress. So that might be part of the reason you lost at 5 gens.
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Just let go of the gen before the hook or before GE activates and you won't have to deal with DMS. Plus Pain Res and GE can only be triggered 4 times by hooking 4 different survivors. It's really not that hard to deal with.
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I don't use that build but it's not like most survivors would do much different things at least on my side.
It's mostly just second-chance perks and adrenalin with a strong map-offering, if it's not that kind than it's backgroundplayer with flashlight or sabo.
I feel like it's pretty boring in general when people only use the perks/offerings that are meta at the moment.
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OK, I understand what you are saying, but that means i can say adrenaline can only be used 1 time a match and I have to make it to endgame so it's not that hard to deal with see how that just doesn't make sense.
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I want to know from you what is the problem with adrenalin because that is something i don't understand it is a perk that can only be used once and you have to do all 5 gens and you get rewarded for doing your task like how killer perks get rewarded for doing their task
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Could literally say the same for the half of second of endurance dead hard gave but it still had to be nerfed at least you’re not waiting out 12 seconds like you do with current grim 🤷♂️
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It wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't all 4 people just doing gens injured and completely ignoring the entire preassure of healing you'd give them on a map chosen by them. They like to bring garden of joy, eyries of crow, badham, the game and every other map that's way to big, has to much palettes or insanely strong loops.
My problem is the combo of it, not the perk on itself.
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I mean whether liked or not there are times where survivors will have to play the game injured so most people would only heal when it’s necessary not to mention that some people will quite literally run anti heal builds or just sloppy and interrupt heals if this is gonna happen survivors would find it pointless to try and heal
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Yes, that's right. And as a by-product of DMS, many survivors should know the loss of having the killer know which gen consider important by survivors and positioning of survivors.
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I don't even run anything to interrupt or delay the heal. But that's not the point anyways, the point is that they don't have to because of the combination with a map allowing to play all game injured without issue.
Like I said, both sides running meta-stuff are boring. That's why the shake-up we had sometime before or just smaller changes are a nice change of pace.
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I think you are missing my point no matter what i will do wither it is get off or stay on my gen will get blocked no matter what
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Even if it’s not you running perks not to interrupt heals that doesn’t change the fact that survivors will not be able to heal or be healed at certain times and will have to get used to this once they are they’ll only heal at times that are needed
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I see the fact that they don't even need to because of the combination of perks and map is not interessting to you?
I won't discuse this further with you, fact is that we need to change some things from time to time so you don't have situations like that were it gets boring of because of the meta
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I don’t like map offerings either I think it should lower chances to be sent to a map instead of increasing but all that can be done about it is sac wards and most killer builds as of now are getting carried by pain res and pop which could make up for survivors not healing and doing gens like you claim
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I mean, pop was always meta and one of the only perks worth running for regression since I play and pain-res is meta since it exists and is already nerfed (at least in my opinion, I liked it more where you could use it more often and it regressed less per use). So it's not like this would be anything new and should change very much.
Well besides that I had an Idea to fix your problem with the blocking: just make blocking not stackable, it rarely happens anyways outside of this combo, so i don't think to many people care.
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That’s the issue you said it yourself pop has always been meta imo pain res instead of pop is what’s always been meta but they’re changing meta perks but killer meta is remaining the same after all this time or getting stronger and the current meta is just not enjoyable to go up against
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If so, there are things survivors can do during that time, such as treatment, moving to another gen, or rescue. If the survivor doesn't do anything and the killer doesn't do anything, it's as if nothing happened during that time. If you don't make any mistakes in how you do the rescue, there won't be that much loss.
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You don't understand.
He said if you leave your lovely gen right before the guy got hooked, then DMS do NOTHING to you.
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Grim Embrace is without a doubt the strongest Killer perk at the moment. I run it on almost every killer at this point. Combine it with DMS, PR, Corrupt, Pop, UW or any Aura reading perks, and its close to impossible to loose.
It is pretty interesting that it is only used by like 10%. I wonder why.
Here is a nice example on how easy it is to destroy survivors with perks like these.
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They can only trigger 4 times? Only? I wish i had your lobbies where apparently loosing minutes of progress is not hard to deal with.
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I find full slowdown builds to be incredibly tedious to verse, since doing gens is the most boring part of playing survivor.
It is even worse on the S tier killers where it is entirely unnecessary too but people can run what they want I suppose but it does make for drawn out bore-fest matches
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A Mika was down, then I was able to sabo hook, tanking a hit to save Mika. 2 other random teammates just stop doing Gens for those 10sec.
So technically, DMS saved 20sec of Gen.
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I mean it has fair counter play by just letting go before GE activates and its activation is completely predictable as others have already said. I don’t see the issue.
I’d also say a meta of gen blocking is much healthier than the stacked regression we’ve had in the past that keeps making you hold m1 even longer.
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I'll admit, it's not actually as bad as I thought it would be. I can think of other builds I hate more.
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They take years in general, but they don't give many reasons to not use pop and pain res to be fair, new maps are pretty big and have often pretty good loops so you can't preassure through fast chases. So slowdown it is and you're back to pop and pain res.
I'd like it if dbd gets more chase-based but at moment the maps are too unbalanced, so they need to change that first and then see what they can do to make chase-perks more apealing.
Besides that I think killers that are strong in chase are generally not really liked, so I can imagine that many people would hate that
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Yes, this is the essence of the problem. chase is fun for survivors, but if killer go along with it, surbivors will complete gen, so Killer is fighting against it in a gen meta perk.
In other words, survivors have to accept either gen meta perks or chases that end quickly due to game balance and tactical elements. every can't refuse either, because it's a case that needs to be solved with skill.
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Imagine complaining about a combo that makes it so Killers actually feel rewarded for getting hooks on fresh Survivors. I swear all Survivor players secretly love getting tunneled and camped out from the get go. Coz that's all these posts say. I'll say it again: You're complaining Killers want to feel like they can be rewarded for getting fresh hooks.
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Yeah thats sadly a thing bhvr can't control, they could try to make the matchmaking better but I doubt that this will be very pleasend to be honest.
Well I think we won't see to many changes in the next time.
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I think survivor gameplay has become extremely tedious outside of chase. Everything takes so long. I know it doesn't necessarily feel that way on killer, but counting blades of grass gets pretty boring after a 90 second gen gets hit with Pain Res, then Grim Embrace. There's no pace or momentum to the survivor role anymore. Every game feels like you're spinning your wheels on generators, especially if you have Archive throwers on your team (please delete Archive challenges or make them part of natural gameplay).
The game should be speeding up, but it's slowing down instead. It's infecting every developer in recent years. Everything is a tedious slog. Games shouldn't be going longer than 10 minutes. 7-10 minutes should be a viable win length for both roles. Get away from these 15 minute slogs. The risk is incrementally slowing the game down until you reach VHS pacing, and nobody really liked that game.
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You can still make the same argument for adren if survivors don’t make it to endgame adren does nothing to you
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Thats why i think they need to add more resources for survivor and in exchange a second object.
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I mean hope made for this was a combo that was used endgame after the survivors objective was completed so in a sense you could say it’s a reward for them surviving til the end but it was still complained about and problematic whether you like it or not there are combos and things that shouldn’t be a thing
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Ok so i am complaining about a perk build which i feel I should be allowed to do and you are allowed to have your own opinion but this brings up my point from earlier killers are complaining about a perk you can only use once if you complete all 5 gens like how killers should be rewarded for doing their task survivors should be treated the same
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Ok but You don’t understand.
Even if i get off my gen or stay on it will still get blocked.And if they have 4 stacks they block for 40 seconds
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Ok but You don’t understand.
Even if i get off my gen or stay on it will still get blocked.And if they have 4 stacks they block for 40 seconds
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The Killer meta is just as boring as the Survivor meta. Adrenaline, Windows Of Opp, ect. are simply too good at the moment
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You're comparing a combo of 30 seconds of actively repaired gens blocked after every hook, and 12/40 seconds of gen block after a fresh hook. While a gen can be done in 90. Which btw can equate to 3 generators in that same time frame. With a perk combo that let's a survivor run at the same speed as the slower Killers and 5% slower than the rest of the roster? Meaning those Killers would never gain ground on them and the others would take even longer to catch up than usual. Bear in mind a Survivor can literally take a hit at the middle of the map, hold forward to the exit gate and they would escape for free when the killer has a 15% speed advantage. That's your argument here.
You're arguing that there are combos that shouldn't exist but do. In a conversation about a perk combo that allows Killers to get a reward for hooking multiple people, in a game, at base, that has no negatives for Survivors to do their objective when a Killer is achieving theirs. They have no debuff to repairs when injured. They have no debuff to repairs when a Killer downs a Survivor. They have no debuff to repairs when a Survivor is hooked. And you're here arguing that a perk combo that gives Killers this reward, a moment of reprieve to pick a new target and get a chase/down going after they have just hooked someone, is a bad thing and shouldn't exist...
I really hope you see how illogical you sounded in your argument
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You're talking about Hope I presume? Making Survivors run almost at the same speed as the slow Killers is okay is it? Just because they did an objective that is usually 60% complete before the match has even been going for 2 minutes. Killers usually have to hook a single Survivor 3 times to get the kill. To get a win they need 9 hooks by that examples logic. How long do you think 9 hooks takes in comparison to 5 gens? Bear in mind the 9 hooks is being done by one person. The 5 gens are being done by 4. This is a sincere question btw.
If your answer can validate a perk that all 4 of those Survivors have access to and will get to use if their objective is done as a good reward for them doing their 5 gens before the Killer can get those 9 hooks (3 kills) then by all means let's hear it.
I know my example was specific, but let's be real, it's not common for Survivors to be left to hit second stage, or left to die on second stage too often. So more often than not, the Killer will need to get 9 hooks at minimum to get the 3 kills. They can and do try to shortcut their objective by camping and tunneling, but a coordinated or determined team can get a free rescue with a trade.
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Buddy people can still tunnel and get pop value while getting an early kill and the perks pain res grim and dead man’s can pause the game for survivors still benefiting killer. Your argument was that killers should be rewarded for a perk combo that will reward them for doing their objective but call me illogical for bringing up a perk combo that rewarded survivors for doing theirs. The only illogical one here is you because you want one side to be rewarded for the same thing another side shouldn’t be rewarded for doing based off your words
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Survivors do their objective way way quicker than Killers. Killers need to have heavily strategic gameplay and builds to have the pressure they need.
Survivors can use no perks and no add-ons and have a cake walk in doing their objective.
So yes, you are illogical in thinking Survivors should be rewarded the same way as Killers in an ASYMMETRICAL game.
Killers should be rewarded for taking down a player in a 4v1. People get so used to "fair" they forget there is nothing fair in how hard it is for Killers to stop Survivors doing their objectives outside of the Meta builds that people figure out allows them to get the rewards for progressing their objective that the base game does not give them.
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No it’s not a cake walk for survivors to just do objectives there are strong killers who could get quick and easy downs there will always be some point in time where someone is getting chased and while that is going on that’s one survivor off a gen when they’re hooked someone else will have to get off a gen to get said unhook and a possibility that someone else will be getting chased leaving only one person to be on a gen at that time you’re under the impression that all survivors are on a gen at all times making rounds end fast and I never said they should be rewarded the same way as killers if I said that I would have said they should be rewarded for completing a single gen but no I’m talking about all gens which is their objective as a whole and if we were to go off of objective logic killer objective is kills a hook state isn’t a kill meaning they’re getting rewarded for getting closer to their objective so why shouldn’t survivors be rewarded for all their work and making it to endgame please let me know
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No I'm not under the assumption 4 Survivors are doing repairs at one time. In what world would that be a stance anyone takes?!
You're aware that a Survivor can just tit around all game and when the exit gates are powered they reap the rewards of their team, right? So why should perks like Hope exist when that's a scenario? Perks like Hope are what you'd expect to see in 2017-2019 DBD. 2024 DBD you'd think would have tweaked this to be a Haste perk that triggers when the user completes a generator repair.
This all a tangent, you know. The argument is about a Killer meta that is completely fine. Your argument was to address an old busted perk combo on Survivors side that offers little comparison to a Killer meta discussion. It's also funny that people talk about Killer meta without acknowledging Survivors meta in the conversation. The Killer meta is far easier to counter than Survivors meta. The Killer meta can be predicted and countered by looking at the HUD and seeing if your gen is gonna be the one hit by Pain Resonance. If it is, get off it and wait the 12 seconds. If the Killer isn't gonna be likely to come you your gen, get back on it and it's a free finish. If they are, maybe don't jump right back on it and let DMS activate.
The Survivor meta can be predicted but it's harder to counter. Second Chance Survivors abuse their safety by actually forcing the Killer to focus on them instead of other fresh Survivors, actively denying them Grim Embrace and Pain Resonance usage. And you think the gen block meta is a problem? It isn't. Not when good Survivor players are being constant thorns in the Killers side, denying them perk usage and wasting their time that they know is so crucial to Killer (Hence the gen block+regression meta in the first place).
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If one person “tits around” the odds of the team making it to endgame will already be low so I don’t get that logic they won’t reap any rewards. Killer meta is not fine at all I wouldn’t be surprised if you thought the same thing about the old eruption meta where incapacitated was a thing since this is just about the 2.0 of that just slightly weaker. Hope mft was an endgame combo so it would only be seen endgame killers would want their kills before endgame so two perks out of a survivor load out until endgame could only benefit killer. Survivors don’t force killer attention onto them there are quite literally tons of complaints from survivors about tunneling so I don’t know what game you’re playing. Killer meta quite literally almost every build is revolving around pop and pain res and there’s also this stupid grim dms pain res meta going on but only way to around the killer meta is to just not die. What’s so survivor builds could vary but adren not usable until endgame one time use perk they die before endgame there’s no value windows is literally just info to plan for pathing and looping dead hard is so easy to wait out the half a second is so long to wait out no wonder y’all see 12, 30 and 40 seconds fine when it’s survivors who have to wait it out. Prove thyself speeds up progress on one gen but prevents pressure being spread in multiple places at the same time the so called second chance perks (anti tunneling ones since all you guys consider perks to helps survivors not die freely second chance) You argue about good survivors but not every survivor is skilled not every match is against a swf and y’all treat it like it is solo queue also exists and with that being a factor coordinations will be sloppy and not everyone in a solo queue will a good survivor but since all killer mains arguments is against good survivors let’s let them sit there and suffer more. And the denying killers perk usage is such a stupid argument what do you want them to do bend over backwards so killers can have free hooks. And like I said before waiting out grim is like me saying just wait out dead hard killers found that so hard to do but it’s ok for survivors to need to wait out a killers perk? Pain res has been in the killer meta since artists realease if I’m not mistake but it’s ok for that to remain in killer meta but hope needs to remain in 2017-2019 I don’t get how you think killer meta is fine staying the same over years but survivors will constantly need to change. Your arguments just remain that killers should have this but survivors shouldn’t
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What perks are in the “survivor meta”
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Your point about old Hope + MFT is a clever tactic to make yourself look like you're correct. But you won't go over my head with it. The combo was an endgame combo, correct, but old MFT used to apply when injured. Meaning the perk was used all game and then the combo applied after the exit gates powered. So Killers had to deal with the extra speed with gave Survivors that extra rotation that wasted Killers time.
The complaints are from Survivors that play at the lower level. The better Survivors will always, just like they always have done in the past, use defensive perks in an offensive way.
Again, it's an ASYMMETRICAL game. Survivors waiting out Grim+DMS is very different to a Killer waiting out DH. If a killer goes to a gen that is pumping a lot, and the Survivor has moved away because they expected the killer to come pressure it, the Killer being there but not finding anyone is what allows the other team to do other things, other gens, the unhook, a heal etc. Then they just jump back on it when they can. Making the argument of it's comparable is not 1 for 1.
The universal Killer meta is and will always be gen defence because like my argument pointed out, they have zero base mechanics that award objective progression. Pain Res is still meta, yes, but it has been gutted when you consider that at higher levels, you only get benefits from it when you go for fresh chases or get lucky with a convenient trade. Something you cannot do at higher levels of play. DBD is centered around teams of mixed levels and zero comms.
And your argument about perks for killer being "ok" to remain but not for Survivors is dumb. DS has been meta since 2017. Off The Record has been meta since Deathslinger. Unbreakable has been since 2017. I could continue to list meta perks that have been staples of survivors for years and years.
Denying killers hooks is not a dumb argument when you actually listen to the point of it. Survivors will not complain about tunneling when it benefits the survivors if a killer does it. Survivors meta builds counter the best way to play killer, simple as that. Killer meta tries to slow down the best way to play Survivor but doesn't do it nearly as much as the Survivors meta.
People have smartly started to play in a way I have said they should be doing for years, they've started looking at the Killer individually and making meta builds for the character, not just universally for the role. When you start seeing individual meta become common place by the majority, maybe you'll realise the gen block meta isn't that bad. Not when you see how strong individually planned out builds can make monsters of the killer when played well. It will be a great day for DBD when character meta becomes the way people play. Survivors will actually need to gain some game sense, which most lack severely.
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DS, Adrenaline, Unbreakable, Dead Hard, Windows Of Opportunity, Off The Record, Blast Mine, Reassurance, (All Haste-exhaustion perks), Deliverance, Bond.
I may have missed one of two, but it's late here lol
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so that's like 11+ perks
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ok so here is my next question if you were to play survivor what perks would you be using
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Adrenaline has 2 flaws:
1) It counters Freddy. We do not need a perk that counters Freddy of all killers!
2) It kind of incentivises slugging. A slugged survivor will be healed to injured but a hooked survivor will be healed to healthy. That's not great.
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