The Game (Gideon Meat Plant)
We'd like to know what you think about The Game map, part of the Gideon Meat Plant realm. Please leave any feedback you have concerning this map as a comment on this thread. Your feedback can be as brief or detailed as you'd like!
The Game (Gideon Meat Plant) 215 votes
Comments
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Definitely a Pallet town of all time.
Though windows can be added more and gens can spawn too close
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Too many safe pallets, to the point where too much of the gameplay on this map looks like this:
While not every pallet is safe, most of them are and it makes the map quite uninteresting to play.
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This map is extremely lopsided. Super killer sided for some killers, practically impossible for others. The map has far too many extremely safe pallets where no counterplay is possible for m1 killers. The gameplay is extremely stale because survivors just run from pallet to pallet and there are over 20 of them. This map is also awful to navigate because there are no clear landmarks and it's not immediately apparent where the stairs are when you're on the bottom floor or which direction you're facing.
That said, gideon has surprisingly good collision on the loops. Playing killers like nemesis or xeno is really fun because everything that looks like you can hit over, you actually can.
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This map has so many pallets you don't even need to be good at looping you go autopilot droping every pallet and you win the chase pretty much there is no skill involved and you still have some pallets left to drop after, gens spawn close to each other as killer you pretty much break pallets it's a bad gameplay
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it depends on the killer honestly. if you play someone like pig, yeah you might aswell surrender. if you play any killer who doesnt care much about pallets (demo or blight id highlight here) then noone really cares.
the map having just 1 window is a bit sad.
yeah it technically has the vault thats upstairs going down, but i dont count that one
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just this, no need to say more
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Depends on killer, but it's impossible to lose here against m1 killer if your team is semi good. Some killers who can bypass/ignore pallets are feeling alright here, but for other 70% of roaster it's just braking pallet animation simulator.
Decrease amount of pallets, add mindgame potential to them (it's a joke that 80% of pallets are just god pallets), add windows on the map.
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My biggest gripe is that there are barely any windows and way too many pallets like just yesterday I was playing deathslinger and I got rocked despite me playing near perfectly but there was way too many pallets and all survivors pre-dropped them.
I also hate that the map is inaccurate to the lore of the movies. The bathroom game never took place in Gideon's but in the nerve gas house. If you do plan to change it I would love to see it as John’s operating room in Saw 3 with also the water cube trap if possible.
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This map is a paradise for certain killers, so I'll take that into account and vote it as a balanced map. If the usage rate of nurse was low, I would have declared survivor to be advantageous.
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Too many pallets and only 2 windows, the gameplay is boring for both sides.
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Tons of safe pallets which is great for survivors, but becomes killer-sided once those pallets are gone. Killers who's powers aren't strong suffer greatly since they just have to concede and break every pallet. I think the map could benefit from more windows and less safe pallets.
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The Game is a licensed indoors map that stands out for its overwhelming amount of connected safe pallets, it counts with 25 pallets and over 20 of them are either safe or they can be under the right circumstances. Unlike Treatment Theatre and The Underground Complex, the killer powers are not so crippled or conditioned by the excess in line of sight blockers (which are still relevant to an extend) but instead the absurd amount of safe pallets which defines a line between the killers that can contest hits at them and those who can't, as well as those who have tools to break the pallets faster. Some killer powers oriented for out of chase interactions can use powerful strategies in this map to play around the high density of safe pallets.
The area around the bathroom and the control room above it is specially powerful, since the tile generation is quite specific and the bottom floor of the columns (what is on the upper floor is connected to what is on the lower floor) adjacent to bathroom / control room are composed by purely safe pallets of which 2 are guaranteed (the one at the jungle gym and the one below the tile connected to the exit gate) and are very likely to connect with the 2 guaranteed safe pallets next to the bathroom (which could potentially be linked from the control room which counts with 2 more safe pallets that can be looped safely for some time before dropping them). The fixed basement in that area can turn the tables against the survivors given how potentially easy it is to defend.
The generators spawns are very irregular and can have very uneven distribution between the upper and lower floor, which can cause many dead ends downstairs (since there is always a sliding door blocking the path next to gens) where survivors can't identify them from afar. The excess of generators in the same floor can also create favorable perimeters of generators as well as powerful to defend hooks.
While it may seem less apparent, there is still some skill expression for the survivors to show, since the map counts with a very limited amount of window vaults (only 7, and 2 of them don't get used most trials) and wiser killer players will bounce between survivors to drain the resources until there are several deadzones where survivors have no pallets left. The more proficient survivors are able to avoid spending the pallets as quickly and also use the lower floor's line of sight blockers more aggressively against those killers that excel at dealing with the safe pallets; as well as switching floors at the more convenient times to counter other killer powers. This is not a justification for the map's flaws but rather a reminder that even some of those killers that would normally perform well in the map can also struggle.
The upper floor counts with a very poor distribution of lockers. The hook density can sometimes be very awkward and cause a wiggle out with minimal interventions from other survivors.
Other than the lockers upstairs, the weird hook density and the inconsistent distribution of generators between floors, the issues of the map all revolve around the high amount of connectable safe pallets and the lack of interactive chases they produce, weakening some of the pallets and replacing some with windows would be the ideal approach, but that is easier to say than to implement, given that the map is licensed and may not count with the freedom that other maps have.
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Show me where those 2 Killer sided voters are, they need a shake.
A map that can potentially spawn 17 GOD PALLETS at max...yeah, it's Survivor sided.
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Becomes killer sided? When all the pallets are gone all gens have popped lmao
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Balance is pretty much all covered already (pallet town, too few windows, very killer dependent where some are great on this map but others.. better afk for the match or meme..)
Saw details (that u am aware of - only watched the first 3 movies I think) are great!
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I actually voted killer sided and I've been voting survivor sided on most. It's easy to play as a beginner survivor for sure because everything is spelled out for you but as you get better at the game, the map does get more killer sided. Eventually those pallets do run out if they aren't used wisely and then it's all dead zones. If the killer guards the right areas and generators, it can get very nasty very quickly. Doesn't matter if there are 17 god pallets if only 6-10 of them are ever used. Though of course certain builds and killers do much better then others. Plus basement is extremely strong for killer and is guaranteed to be in one spot.
There aren't many god windows here at least which are the most survivor sided thing of survivor sided maps.
Regardless whether its survivor or killer sided though it's a horrible map with minimal skill expression. Basically plays itself. That's what really matters. Map badly needs to be changed.
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There is little reason why Killers should ever win on this map. The only reason would be Survivors are being too brazen and doing foolish things like giving the Killer free hits near gens or while carrying or greeding a pallet they can easily drop without a care in the world.
Against a team that knows how to play safe, and play smart. You will lose.
Even against teams that greed pallets they could freely drop, if they know their distancing then they can waste time on getting a few loops out of it before dropping it. That wastes loads of a Killers time. If the team is on gens while this is happening, then the Killer will lose. A Killer has to break a God pallet if he wants to commit to a chase. And if they keep detaching to find weaker links, yet all Survivors play it smart and safe, there is nothing they can do but have their time wasted at loops that they physically cannot mindgame.
There is no way in hell this is a killer sided map.
I'm curious what maps you said were Survivor sided?
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Most of them are survivor sided a few are balanced, though the word they should use is even, balanced implies fine which some are not. Rancid I believe I voted killer sided and a few others where the numbers agreed with it. I'm 70-30 killer in terms of game time.
I guess I don't groan inwardly when I get this map as killer compared to Lery, Badham, Haddonfield, Garden of Joy and others. The game is an utterly broken map which is what really matters and maybe I should have looked at the vote first because if they check which way the vote is leaning to determine how broken a map is rather then reading comments well... I should just vote with the majority.
On a personal level I do okay here. I play various killers. I guess because I don't commit to chase that much, I'll break the god pallet and redefend. I don't run slowdowns and tend to use silly perks like mad grit+agi. I use surveillance a lot though, so I 'know' when to drop a chase because a generator is being repaired. I know I'm not good in prolonged chases so I avoid them and play to my strengths. I guess I don't play to win as much as some do but I guess I always thought that better killers would often defend well here and just break all the good pallets and ignore the rest, they would still win. Perhaps I'm wrong. In this case though its irrelevant. Map is broken either way.
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There are actually 4 guaranteed windows. One at the top of the meat tube, one in the freezer, one in the room above the bathroom, and an often unused one by one of the exit gates. There’s also a TL wall that can spawn downstairs for 2 more windows, and sometimes pallet gyms that have 1.
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My comment asploded when I tried to edit it, but there are 7 window vaults. One at the top of the meat tube, one in the freeze, one in the room above the bathroom, one by an exit gate (pretty rarely used), a TL wall has 2 in one of the corners that swaps positions with a staircase, and another one in a pallet gym that can spawn on one of the edges
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I dislike this map there is like 50+ pallets and over half of them are safe and there's only like 5 windows and that's it plz give this map a rework
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I like this map.
Don´t understand all the hate for the indoor maps. I think they are sometimes more interesting than the usual outdoor maps.
I also don´t get this map super often to play on.
And - this is a great map for a lot of tome challenges.
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The map is a macro test for both sides. If you blindly run pallet to pallet as Survivor, you can win too easily because there are too many pallets and too few windows (above bathroom and exit gate windows are a joke if you count them). If you force chases into deadzones as Killer, and camp/patrol chokepoints, you can win too easily also. The side that has the greater macro understanding wins, and micro in chase is largely meaningless. I do think more windows should be implemented, and fewer pallets. Even then though, the majority of pallets are bloodlustable, and it feels as though they are designed to bloodlusted. When sweatlord Survivors juice every milisecond out of every pallet, Killer loses. At the same time, newbie Survivors can't navigate the map to find gens, even with the previous update. Also if you get 1 soloq weak link, you can chase them into god pallets and get free deadzone hits on the skilled Survivors as there are no pallets left in that area. While I voted balanced, I find this map easier as Killer than Survivor, because you can't carry soloq weak links unlike other maps.
One facet I think is criminally underrated on this map is the closed doors opening on gen completion. I wish more maps had this type of mechanic. For those who don't know, the top floor always has a gen on the clockwise side of the doors, and the bottom always has a gen on the counter-clockwise side of the doors. If you know this as Killer, it is much easier to approach from odd-angles or find Survivors. If you know this as Survivor it is much easier to find a path to unhook or a pump a gen.
Also as someone who prefers to play Stealth Killers, I always love an indoor map that actually can block line-of-sight for approaches. Autohaven is unplayably bad in comparison (for stealth).
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You physically can't afford to waste time in a chase that takes multiple rotations with no mindgame to just break a safe pallet when there's loads more to go. And all of them link into one another so they have the option to ignore one tile and run to the next, then when you catch up, waste more time at that one then drop it safely.
It's just not feasible to expect any Killer (that isn't Nurse) to play around that map and win. You only win teams that make mistake after mistake or just aren't gen efficient.
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Please consider adding this map to rework. Its really awful gameplay wise and very boring, its just prodrop central with most pallets being god pallets. Gideon is one of the few maps left that is truly one sided.
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This map is monstrously killer-dependent. On killers with strong pallet counterplay or those who excel in small maps (either through their power, or benefitting largely from aoe-centric perks like Surge), it's incredibly killer sided. But on killers who lack those truths, it's so incredibly survivor sided that it might as well auto-0k.
Add to that the issue where going down downstairs lategame makes an escape impossible, a fairly confusing and samey layout and issues with gen discoverability (sure, there's the gates that have connected gens but it'd be nice to add the more traditional lights-based marker for incomplete gens on here too), and the map could really do with a lot of changes.
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Waaaay too many safe pallets. Basement is also really strong once the two god pallets near the entrance of basement is gone.
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Seconding that I love when activated generators DO something. Opening the large sliding doors on Gideon, opening the trapdoors on the gallows on Dead Dawg, opening the gate beneath the main building in Temple of Purgation, and opening the sliding portcullises on Grim Pantry are all top tier map design. I’d be very interested in more of that.
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Easily one of the most frustrating maps to play on. Just 200 pallets and 90% of them are God Pallets. Playing it as an M1 killer may as well just afk.
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It‘s my favorite map. It‘s easy for killers and for survivors, so I think it‘s fair. Killers can just burn through pallets and then create huge deadzones and survivors have good pallets but not many windows.
Overall this map is unique and it should stay like it is.
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It goes without saying the number of pallets on this map, the majority of them being safe too, is ridiculous.
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If you go against m1 killers you can pretty much pre drop to victory on this map as long as your team mates do the objective go in a group an you can pretty much guarantee a a win against weaker killers. As survivor it's a bit mind numbing we need more interesting 50/50 loops.
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this is a map that tests your understanding of split pressure. If you 3 gen effectively on this map, hit & run effectively on the map and slowly break through survivors pallet resources, this is generally balanced map.
If you commit to chases and attempt to break 20 god pallets to win the map. This map is one of the most notorious survivor sided looping maps.
Another one of those lopsided maps. Either way, killers do not enjoy chasing on this map because the pallet loops are uninteresting. even when you win the map, the chases are not fun. Unfun map for killer to play and tricky map for survivor to escape on.
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This map is ridiculous not only does it spawn upwards of like 25 pallets, also 17+ of them are safe or God pallets... Sure the map does not really have windows, but the game is basically over when you have to kick that many pallets. Most loops on the map are not playable for the majority of killers, some can do just fine, and for once I would say that not stealth killers have that much of an advantage on this map, just because there is a safe pallet every 5 m. This leads to ridiculous outcomes like having safe pallets like 5 m apart of each other, making it so easy to switch two loops back and forth.
There is just no skill expression for either side. The survivor just runs to the closest pallet, maybe runs around it once or twice and then drops it, and most of the time as killer you should not try to outplay it, but just kick it, as the pallet is so safe the survivor would need to majorly mess up.
I will never understand why people enjoy this map... It is probably the worst map in the game just because of this major design flaw.
Now to the few positive things, it's upstairs is fairly wide open for an indoor map, which is a good thing as you can spot people and use crows and scratch marks from afar. There are fairly many stairs and other ways to go down, leading to much less frustration than on other maps, as you don't have to walk too much to get down or up, at least most of the time, it's not perfect but better than other maps.
As for how to fix it:
- add more windows
- change all loops (there so no reason to have so many super strong pallets that are only meant to be kicked)
- remove some pallets, 25 is just way too many...
And on a side note this map has a great opportunity to add dynamic map design, like give the survivor a side thing to and let them pull a lever for 20 seconds to open or close the big doors, same for killer but quicker, could be super fun if you were able to influence that as both sides, making loops stronger (by not leading into a dead end) or even locking the killer out.
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Short critique: Too many very safe pallets
Long critique:
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Are you playing a good pallet shredder by any chance? Or do you play killers who benefit from hit and run? Are you only 3-genning? Are you playing Nurse? If the answer is yes to any of those, then you are lucky. But all other M1 killers struggle on this map. Have you ever played as Clown, Pig or Myers on this map? Good luck getting anyone.
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Break pallets and walls? Yes. I also like to go there for challenges but then I am prepared and don't expect to win.
The normal gameplay is immensely survivor sided.
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I think we don't have to talk about this one. WAY too many (god) pallets, too little windows. Horrible Locker placement. Semi-fixed gates that are always too far apart.
That's pretty much it. Good size, good navigation between the floors.
If the problems I stated are fixed, it could be good.
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I play Onryo the most (I know she is a bad example for this map). Also Enduring, Spirit fury is fun on this map. I don‘t do the others things.
Besides of the weak killers that map isn‘t bad for killers, you break the right pallets and the map is so easy to win on. Shure the weaker killers suffer from maps, that are fair to play on not like borgo (where is nothing good), but that you can say about all maps. The stronger killers will have it always easier, but instead of reworking this map they should finally buff the weak killers (not huntress).
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Playing an M1 killer on this map is literally impossible to catch people unless they run to the few pallets that aren't a god pallet.
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The largest issue with this map is that there are pretty much only "safe" pallets with no counterplay, however this doesn't only favor survivors. The gameplay loop is pretty much just to run to a pallet, drop it, and go to the next one and if you don't have a pallet you're pretty much screwed. So if a killer stalls the game long enough till there are no more pallets left to run to the survivors win and if the survivors do the gens faster than they drop pallets (which is easy cause there's like 20+ pallets on that map) then they win. Pretty much the most mindnuming and boring gameplay on both sides.
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Do something with thoose GOD pallets, always the same. Surv sees pallet, survs drops it, (unless you're a top tier killer) killer breaks it, repeat the process, still where ther're no more pallets or the match has already ended.
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This map, albeit very dense in pallet spawns, is very sparse with window or vault locations. I will say though, this map is the only version of its kind with that kind of setup and don't think it should drastically change from that. It's easy for survivors to loop and drop pallets sparingly, however, it's also easy for them to throw all the pallets early on. I would like if one or two more window vaults got added to the map instead of a few pallets.
You know those, or that one step ladder you can climb up and vault on the Hawkins map? Maybe add one or two of those on the maps to add to vault locations.
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For what it's worth, I think the fact that Gideon is only comprised of Pallets makes it the most distinct map in the game! (Aside from RPD, which also has only pallets but only has fixed tiles and is incredibly predictable.)
At face value, the amount of pallets can be perceived as a bad thing. (Because normally, from Killer perspective, Pallet = Bad)
However, this feature of the map turns the map incredibly in favor for Killers when they play the map well!
Early game, the map heavily favors Survivors. However, in perfect theming with the Saw franchise, the game begs you to make important choices as Survivor: Every pallet you throw widdles away at your own survival.
Once most of the pallets are chewed up, The Game becomes an absolute death trap because there are almost no window resources to play around as Survivor, and suddenly you're in the most Killer-sided map in the game!
I think it's very awesome that there are two floors to the map that each offer incredibly different styles of gameplay. The top floor is open but risky to play on, and the bottom floor offers line of sight blockers and resources but leaves Survivors incredibly vulnerable to being cut off and mindgames.
Plus, the generators opening doors can be used tactically by Survivors to shape the map how they want it to be shaped!
Gideon Meat Plant is one of the most dynamic maps in the whole game, and it is also the one most rewarding of game knowledge and map awareness: For killers, understanding which strong pallets they need to zone Survivors into early to have a very easy late-game. For Survivors, vice versa: understanding which pallets they can afford to drop when, and making those tactical decisions will make or break not just their own survival, but their teammates' later on.
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I think this map is pretty balanced. I don't love going to it but I like how its easy to find gens despite being an indoor map. There may be a good amount of pallets but they are necessary because there are hardly any windows. Plus there are too many zoning killers and killers that ignore loops/pallets anyway.
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As a killer I hate this map with a passion. It has way too much junk for survivors to use against the killer.
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I'm honestly amazed so many think this map is survivor sided. Sure it has a lot of pallets but if you know how to play around the map its not really a big issue. I'd say the map is balanced or maybe even a little killer sided.
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Okay, I'm confused. How in the world do you think that? Only some killers can play good there, but a high majority of them can't do anything as at least fairly good survivors go to pallet after pallet after pallet, on and on.
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Sailor, don't consider the map balanced just because of those things. A high majority of killers suck there, and a high majority of the pallets are safe or are god pallets, making the map horribly balanced for, again, a high majority of killers.
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Used to be killer sided and they just sprinkled god pallets all over. It's just running to safe pallet simulator, no gameplay. Maybe give it a Hawkins treatment, more pallets but all unsafe. Having to string loops together
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