Where are you putting The Unknown on the Tier List?
Where are you putting The Unknown on the Tier List? 34 votes
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Comments
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Low A - High B Tier
It may be too early to evaluate him, but since the placement of warp points is not optional, if a theory is established to control this to some extent, he may be able to surpass B tier.
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B Tier
Didn't they recently do a show match of comp players and he did somewhat Allright? Especially the teleport was really good.
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
D. Don't Even Bother Tier
It was as you said - a show match. All chill no sweat experience.
In reality this killer has a very small window before the weaken effect can be re-applied on the target and most of the time survivors can dodge the projectile because the charging, aiming and projectile speed give ample amount of time to react. In other words if there is a good line of sight and enough corners to cut, then odds are you won't be able to land the second projectile successfully before the weaken effect is cleared. Decent survivors have no trouble getting rid of the effect and if the plan is to ''spread'' the weaken then you won't be getting downs because you need to commit the chase and during chase survivors can look at you and get rid of the weaken. It's extremely counter-productive power. The effective way is to shoot projectile from afar but there are already range killers who perform better and feel more reliable than this one.
Teleportation is a hit or miss. Your hallucinations will likely be dispelled asap the moment you decide to commit to chase by any nearest survivor and new hallucinations won't often spawn where you want them to. While you can ''influence'' their spawn point, most of the time it is quite meaningless because they don't provide you with any information and the moment you use one, others go into ''cooldown'' during which survivors can safely dispel them all. On large maps they are pretty much free BP pods for survivors.
He is very weak M1 killer who has to ''spread'' his power around but the moment he decides to commit the chase there's plenty of counterplays that survivors can use against him. If we had a hit and run meta, he could perform much better. With nerf of Sloppy Butcher, Mange and Hemorrhage effects, this killer simply has no place to stay and may only perform against unorganized random bunch of super chill or clueless survivors. Against any other he is weak M1 killer who has to go slug / tunnel build because everything else is not effective enough.
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B Tier
What do you even base this statement on? It was a showmatch to present strengths and weaknesses of the killer against a full on comp team... What makes you think 5 comp players playing against each other would go for a chill match in that scenario? That would completely defy its purpose... Therefore why do you think that?
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D. Don't Even Bother Tier
It's a show match. In matches like these people don't play at their best so you won't see the true pressure neither from survivors ( full meta loadout, good coordination and time efficiency ) as well as the similar pressure from killer ( full / proxy camping, tunneling out of position survivor, doing lots of bait moves and so on ). You can watch some tourney matches for reference and compare them with the show match, you will see what I mean.
The show match ended with standard 2 for 2 which is the expected outcome. Consider it as a promo-video for the product ( killer / survivor ) where some good parts are showcased and ''not-so-good'' ones are concealed. True values come when it's tested personally.
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B Tier
So you are just measuring it by its name and outcome? As far as I know the loadouts they always use on survivors for this kind of stuff just go by comp rules and the killer loadouts usually are a bit more experimental, but also by comp rules... By what we saw in other show matches I don't think this falls short, and there they did in fact proxy camp and what not.
Also I don't know where you got the idea from that in a show match people don't play seriously? When you look at show matches in Starcraft there is usually still some prize money on the line and they sure as well play to the best of their ability, so I don't really see your point here?
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B Tier
Also if the killer is truly as weak as you think, how did Otz manage to get his 50 wins in a row that quickly? Sure matchmaking is obviously not optimal but still... It shouldn't have gone that easily if he was as bad as you make him out to be.
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B Tier
What do you mean by "the match" btw? They played several? At least 8 to my knowledge.
With different results. And at least on the killer side I don't really see non meta perks tbh? I mean sure the addons were all over the place depending on the rules for the current match, but still.
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D. Don't Even Bother Tier
It's very difficult to shoot someone. It doesn't give you any great features when you hit it. It's easy to dodge. It's extremely difficult to bounce. The number of fields required to use the feature is small. If the weakness survivor constantly looks at you, you do not have the luxury of missing the bullet you shoot because if you miss, the weakness effect disappears. Getting out of Weakness is very easy. It's disgusting that if we hit someone directly they don't take damage. MZX's cooldown is too high. Suggestions: They can remove the MZX cooldown and put the teleport cooldown on the feature icon at the bottom left. It can take damage if we hit it directly. The bounce could be stronger. It may be necessary to destroy a clone to get rid of Weakness, or its duration may be extended further. MZX can be fired more powerfully.
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Low A - High B Tier
When played to his potential, I think he easily is a high B low A tier killer. Great map control, great chase power if you can consistently hit shots, great potential for super cool shots to catch people off guard. He's got a lot going for him that when used by the right person.
If getting rid of weakened wasn't so easy / short window, he'd easily be an A tier killer in my opinion.
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D. Don't Even Bother Tier
I'm talking about the match during official livestream. The one where twichers played together.
The one you listed is played by comp players and commented by Hens and Otz. These were made when killer was released recently. Back then people didn't have much experience playing against killer and counter play wasn't so widely known.
Today many know how to play against this killer. They know the projectile can be easily dodged and they know this killer's mobility can be massively crippled if his illusions are dispelled in time. He has quite little to offer on many maps and relies massively on expensive addons and very specific playstyle to be somewhat effective. Game already has killers who can either teleport around or do range attacks and each can excel better than him in most cases.
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It actually is controlled. By holding his ranged power the Unknown cannot spawn an illusion until the power is let go.
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D. Don't Even Bother Tier
Specific playstyle and MM did the job. Otz has many 50 winstreaks done by many killers, does that mean all of those killers are S or A tier?
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B Tier
He hasn't done many since the new mmr system. And there is a difference between A or S tier and beyond garbage as you seem to view the killer.
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D. Don't Even Bother Tier
When killer is so map and addon dependent, as well as relies on very specific playstyle to do it's job and even then may be outplayed by a competent team that does not fool around, then yes, the killer is a garbage. A good garbage dispenser that can only handle equal type of garbage opponents.
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B Tier
So the killer was new and neither killer nor survivor got a full grasp or what? I think several matches tell more than just one. Besides that the killer didn't really get changed much since PTB and I would assume the comp players had him already figured out by the, besides that killer has not even been out for 2 weeks... What makes you assume everybody has already figured him out?
I guess those players already tested him out on the PTB or at least after got an idea of what to do about him.
The issue with the argument is by saying they hadn't figured out what to do about him at that point is that the argument backfires as then you must as well admit that the killer player has also. It figured the killer out completely? Besides that I would value show cases by comp players always higher than by regular players for the obvious difference in skill.
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Low A - High B Tier
I have to admit that he's slightly better than I thought at first. However, against good survivors, he is hardly above B tier. Unfortunately, he's not very good at anything. Okish chase, but far from being strong. Okish map pressure and mobility, but too inconsistent and long to be any good. And half of addons are pure trash.
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B Tier
As for the playstyle I find that quite funny, because otz recently made a video saying he basically did not have to go out of his way at all considering the playstyle, because the killer worked just fine that way. So you cannot really blame on playstyle.
And also I would say there are many other maybe even better killers that Otz did not get the streak on despite being more experienced with those... It is quite a flat argument to blame it on playstyle and matchmaking only because that does not really support the rest of the picture.
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S Tier
S Tier. That being sexy tier.
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B Tier
How is he map and playstyle dependant when at least Otz stated that he didn't require a specific playstyle after doing his 50 winstreak?
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D. Don't Even Bother Tier
Take a better look at how he and his opponents played.
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D. Don't Even Bother Tier
Rewatch videos Otz and Hens commented. The performance of killer and survivor variers massively because in some cases killer was more experienced and some other - survivors.
Give this killer a try yourself. Preferably against survivors who do try to get rid of weaken status and don't waste time doing senseless stuff and come back again.
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B Tier
Sure let me quickly watch 20 h+ of dbd matches...
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B Tier
Considering weakened gets removed when you look at the killer, and good players almost constantly look at the killer I doubt they didn't already go for that most of the time.
But sure time will tell.
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D. Don't Even Bother Tier
Well, you used those videos as argument, not me.
I can do you a favor and sum them up - red and green addons, killer tunneling the guy of the hook asap. The rest is obvious.
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D. Don't Even Bother Tier
Green addon reapplies weaken every time a gen is done. However, if survivors don't try to interact with killer and instead concentrate on gens, they can have that weaken effect on them as it won't do anything at all and can be removed in convenient time.
What I'm saying here is the weaken status is pretty much harmless to survivors because it does nothing unless it's re-applied. There are two ways that can happen - a long range trick shot or in narrow spots where space doesn't allow survivor to maneuver much. This makes killer extremely map dependent as on open spots people will simply dodge the projectile and get rid of weaken status at the same time.
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B Tier
You are taking 4 of the roughest games of the entire 50 win streak to tell me how Otz supposedly played the entire streak, despite him in the intro explaining why his streak attempt worked out so well... (The killer does not require a specific playstyle and he can just hook people use his regression and chase others and so on and so forth).
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B Tier
Did otz even use red addons fir his streak or are you talking about the showcase by the comp players?
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D. Don't Even Bother Tier
I'm not talking about Otz streak. I'm talking about videos which Otz and Hens commented.
To be fair, his streaks should not be used as the measurement of killer's quality. He is undeniably a talented DBD player but what he does can't be applied to every scenario possible out there. He has 50 killstreak on trapper but does that make Trapper overpowered because of that? On average, even now trapper is considered rather weak killer.
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D. Don't Even Bother Tier
Showcase matches with Otz and Hens commenting. People there were more organized on average.
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B Tier
Sure, but when he did the streak we did not have didn't have current matchmaking... He even gave up on streaks for a while because his games have gotten harder...
In that case I don't really see why tunneling of the hook is odd for comp players?
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B Tier
By far I would say considering they are comp players...
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D. Don't Even Bother Tier
Probably because it's considered to be a dirty move to go for recently unhooked survivor by some people yet it's commonly done by competitive players because they understand the importance of getting a survivor out of the match asap. For average pub player it may mean they don't get to play at all, especially if they don't know how to loop and don't have anti-tunnel loadout equipped.
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B Tier
I mean sure, but when we look at showcase matches done by comp players it is not really an odd thing, is it?
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D. Don't Even Bother Tier
It just shows that quite often killers have to tunnel someone asap or else they simply lose the match. There is a line between tunneling someone at 5 gens or 2 gens but it isn't currently regulated by any means. It's just killer courtesy to switch the aim at rescuer, but in doing so killer only makes the game harder for self.
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B Tier
I don't think the killer makes the game harder for himself by tunneling at 5 gens... The issue is more how he does it, because there is a difference between how a comp player tunnels someone off of hook and how a random player in a pub match does it... One is more effective than the other one.
And I Don think you have to necessarily tunnel, if you are good enough, as matchmaking does not keep up with it in giving you equal opponents.
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D. Don't Even Bother Tier
Tunneling when done early and efficiently is still the best way if not to win, but at least ease the game afterwards. Even devs admit that once one survivor is out, the remaining three start to suffer massively because killer can pressure with less effort. Comp players try to spread pressure at start because there are more confident and willing to take the challenge of dealing with 4 survivors than pub players. For pub player, there's no real reason to challenge self to a match where 4 survivors can be doing gens efficiently if there's a clear opportunity to eliminate someone out asap and then toy with the remaining 3 survivors for fun and extra BP reward.
Thing is, generally the tunneling is not required, but it's there and it does make game easier for a killer. It is also commonly used as a counter-tool against SWFs who in turn may be using voice chat for communication and coordination which killer may not even be aware of in the first place. In other words if pub killer wants to increase odds of winning a match, then tunneling someone out remains the most effective way of recovering from a bad start, along with having a gen slowdown combo.
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B Tier
I don't know about that spreading pressure for comp players... In the comp matches I have seen they just tend to go for one person from the start... Sure when they play pub matches but in tournaments or scrims they really only go after one guy in the beginning to get them out as fast as possible.
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B Tier
Put this together very quickly but it is generally how I think he stacks up.
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B Tier
I think you are severely overestimating Billy xD And Myers below Freddy is also a bit questionable ^^
Same for Ghostface below Legion or Bubba this low in general.
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B Tier
My thoughts behind them
Legion is better than ghostface because you will always be able to consistently injure for free and if they heal then you should win anyway it just give them the map easier when the start a chase while ghost faces expose is not guaranteed the only thing he has over him imo is saving stalk for plays later in the game.
I'm kinda of assuming no very strong add-ons that make Myers way better than he realistically is because it would just be odd to move him up because of tombstone.
I'm not a very good Billy but I'm alright i can curve consistently and know when to not and Billy is cracked the only thing holding him back is map dependency.
Bubba is probably about as good a doctor tbh.
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B Tier
I don't think Legion is even close to Ghostface, Ghostface can sneak up on you without a warning and completely catch you off guard, legion will always give you an ample warning when he is approaching so you can just run him like a normal m1 killer without any issue, you don't need to heal because of the terror radius signaling you he is coming.
I dont think Myers needs his strong addons to be better than Freddy, just because of how bad Freddy actually is. Even with the addons that just give him longer duration you can effectively make it so an unhook will at least be a 1 for 1 more often than not even a 2 for 1. He has similar advantages to Ghostface where you won't hear him approaching. Whereas Freddy has his snares which are terrible and his teleport which is okayish, his addons do absolutely nothing for him. This is why I think Freddy is by far the worst killer in the game.
Bubba is pretty decent in B tier I think, there are some cracked bubbas out there.
I think Billy is between top 5 and top 10 or so. You can still loop him just fine, similar to his first version, due to overcharge (or whatever it is called, I always confuse his and singularity power) you even get another layer of looping against him because his overcharge effects his curving making him usually go wider which you must take into account. Also crouch teaching is affecting him as well. I think he is not even close to spirit in power.
Post edited by Archol123 on0
