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So l played 6 matches with SM ( perkless) tunneling/ camping forbidden
So I decided to give SM a chance to see if my opinion about her changes and it ended up being worse than I thought.
I wanted to check if the rumors were true that the survivors would give up when facing her so I set myself the challenge of playing her without perks (basically) and I couldn't tunnel or camp. If a survivor was hooked I couldn't go after him until I had hooked another survivor and these were the results. I don't care about winning or losing.
1 MATCH: CHAPEL
In this match I faced a SABO SQUAD and they failed miserably, Dwight an Feng just wasted time behind me which resulted in the defeat.
2 MATCH: RPD
vittorio gave up on the 2nd hook
3 MATCH: MOTHER'S DWEET
this was a good match. competent survivors.
4 MATCH: BORGO
good survivors but it was a very easy game for me
5 MATCH: SUFFOCATION PIT
Sable gave up 1st Hook
6 MATCH: DAWG DEAD
This match was complicated because of the boons and competent survivors but nothing I couldn't handle lol
What I was able to learn from these matches is that SM needs changes, the fact that I was able to go head to head with some decent survivor groups without using anything basically is insane.
If I achieved victories without any kind of help and without tunneling and camping, imagine what an SM full meta build does to a SoloQ.
SM is still very strong at holding generators. I managed to hold generators without any regression perks and with the existence of anti-3gen.
SM punish a survivor undeservedly just because another survivor activated a drone. This happens several times in the game.
SM is an abomination to SoloQ and needs a rework. Survivors need extreme coordination to face her, which can make it even a little difficult for SWF.
I tried to find reasons to speak in her favor but unfortunately there are none.
Comments
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How do you verify these were good survivors?
Do you feel 6 games is a good pool to draw your conclusion from?
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Apart from the matches where the survivors committed suicide the rest were good survivors, I don't need to lie about that.
You are also free to try matches with her if you want and see the results.
" Do you feel 6 games is a good pool to draw your conclusion from?"
I've been playing this game for 5 years now so I believe I have some idea of what I'm talking about and I'm sure with conviction that SM is a terrible killer design.
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There are some matches that are exceptions of course here and there but in general I’d say if SM is winning consistently without perks or tunneling/camping at all then the survivors are not very good. Also her counter play has nothing to do with swf or not at all. She isn’t excessively punishing to solo queue more than swf, she’s just punishing to people playing bad. You don’t need coordination for her, just to individually be good.
I actually have been doing a lot of matches with her and I don’t come to your conclusions at all. Her design isn’t as bad as I used to think.
3 genning isn’t realistically a thing anymore after the gen kick nerf. If survivors are losing to a 3 gen at this point, especially if it’s a no perk SM, it’s a skill issue.
Getting punished because another survivor did a drone is the same as getting punished by Michael because someone else let him stalk, nothing new.
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I hate to break it to you but half the killer roster could do this so not sure this proves much of anything especially with such a low sample size.
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I’ve seen you state before that experienced players can tell a good survivor apart from an average to bad one, and considering they have 80k shards I’d say they have quite a bit of experience in this game.
I do agree that the sample size is rather small but I don’t think it discredits the overall point of the post. Skull Merchant (IMO) is the easiest killer to play in the game and benefits from a plethora of different reasons of questionable design choices.
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you just outplayed them, skull merchant is not strong at all, the only thing she needs is some QoL changes
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We have a conflict of visions and that's okay. the only difference is that I see more negative points and you see more positive points in relation to her.
3 genning is still a Thing because survivors can't remove stacks of Lock on. If you want to defend the last generators and they are in a dead zone, there isn't much that the survivor with the claw trap can do, he has to wait 45s until the time runs out and not activate another drone otherwise the time will reset and we all know that the last 3 generators will become an area full of drones and if you deactivate, SM can simply reactivate them again.
There should be a way to remove the lock on.
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It's complicated because if I had played those matches with killers even stronger than SM like Oni, hag, wesker and pyramid head without any perks, I'm sure I would have lost.
The only reason I won some matches is because SM gets stronger as the game progresses because she can protect generators much easier than these killers.
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It's not hard for SM to outplay any survivor - she basically gets free injures but at least Legion tends to run off after.
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So could Singularity or Pinhead some killers have built in slowdown and gen control but many call them both B tier like SM. Some killers just have better built in slowdown and gen control but have other weaknesses that hold them back usually mobility.
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I played SM a lot and I think the biggest problem is being undetectable. There's no cd on drones so it feels insane that I can just run around the map constantly undetectable and walk right up to survivors on gens.
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To be fair, my friend, this doesn't really prove anything. What you did here certainly can be done with other characters.
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skull merchant players wants to force you to get scanned, they´ll always double back 8293 times to double tap you (for some reason) so you can just stand still, i hope it helps :)
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All this proves is Distressing, Beast of Prey and Thrill are OP!!
I mean come on, look at all those Bloodpoints! SMH!
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If BHVR change my Distressing I'll hook them since it's on the perk list with changes.
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Allow me for the first time to disagree with you my beloved. If I had played these same matches with other killers I'm sure I would have lost a few.
I really can't see myself winning these matches with my main, leatherface, Pinhead, xeno, chucky etc perkless. the only way this happened is because of some pretty questionable SM design that I and a few others believe.
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Frequency rate seems to skyrocket with the SM though.
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I'm sorry, but as some people have pointed out, these screenshots prove nothing. We cannot see how you played or how efficiently your opponents played. If you had VODs of these games we could get a better picture.
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You immediately jumped to assume malintent behind my post. They were genuine questions and not rhetorical at all.
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Why are you disarming so many to begin with? You don't need to remove nearly as many stacks of Lock On if you aren't getting them in the first place. You can crouch walk as well as not be detected while being still on the gen. This all sounds like playing incorrectly against her.
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You have a point, I can't expect people to believe me just with screenshots since I wouldn't believe it either if it were me on the other side but the point is that this theory of mine can be tested by anyone. If you want, you can do the same things as me, which was literally playing without perks and seeing the result.
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There’s no malintent at all and I never assumed that? Your question just seemed a little loaded and doesn’t have an actual good way to answer it. You put it best that an experienced player can tell who’s good at the game.
You can’t see MMR, you can’t see their rank, prestige doesn’t matter, I guess you could view their hours if you’re so inclined but even then that’s not the best indicator. The only actual way to tell if they’re good or not is by how they actually play and even then that’s still somewhat subjective. There’s never going to be a way that they can prove to you they were good players without recording their games…
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"There’s no malintent at all and I never assumed that?" "Your question just seemed a little loaded"
Saying it seemed loaded is adding malintent.
"There’s never going to be a way that they can prove to you they were good players without recording their games…"
That's why I said assuming things. I never said there was a way to prove it or that that's even what I was wanting. All I was expecting was something like "they had a lot of hours" or "they seemed like good players from my experience". Fine answers. I didn't imply his answers would be bad, just that I was wanting to know what metric he was using. That's it.
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Apologies, my meaning of loaded question more meant that the question didn’t really have a verifiable answer, I should have used a better term.
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It's okay, and yeah there really isn't a verifiable metric until we're shown our mmr's.
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Exactly, that was what I was trying to get across with my initial post, apologies if it came off as backhanded
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I just don't see it, my dear friend. From my experience with Skull Merchant she doesn't have anything that wins the match for her, except for the hook suicides.
She has a power, which already makes her stronger than my main, but that power isn't impossible to fight. And outplaying the survivors can be done by every killer.
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I played 70 matches over the last 2 months and had a lot quitters, sometimes the whole team. They don't even started to play to find out that I was a Noob Merchant. A lot survivor refused doing gens because drones.
I think I started very low because that I don't wan't say much about balance. 6 games don't show much.
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I agree, that her design needs improvements.
Im just sick of all the hate train with no solution.
All I see are people that complain endlessly without actually providint constructive feedback on how she could be imporved.
Maybe we should all go to the feedback section and make a post to collect ideas on how to change her in a healthy way. With all the negativity and almost non - existing ideas for changes, im not suprised that the reworks she had are still flawed. The devs dont know how to fix her because they dont get constructive input on how to do so.
I hope im wrong.
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Sigh another Skull Merchant hate post people will believe without evidence despite several extremely inconsistent things.
Like if you're actually going against good survivors then defending gens isn't going to work like...at all and the only time she 'punishes players for another player activating a drone' is also against bad survivors because no good survivor is activating her drones if they're not being chased by her.
So two large things which should never happen against survivors who actually are good being used to prove shes an OP killer despite both things not applying to actually skilled survivors. This is like me saying Huntress is super OP because when I throw a pallet she always hits me, yeah playing against a killer the wrong way will have the bad results.
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I’ve pointed out before she’s still exceptionally good at 3-genning. I’d argue in many ways she’s improved at it because she can essentially survey the gens and remain undetectable for the entire match. And people who play her know that. Your results don’t surprise me at all.
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The sample size is insignificant to the point of being completely discountable. Even a hundred times that would barely be enough required to give anything close to a conclusive result. You're also neglecting the obvious fact: you probably have several thousand hours of playtime at this point (whether they're on Skull Merchant or not is mostly irrelevant), and with matchmaking being the way it is, it's quite possible no-one on the opposing team had close to that.
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A play style I tried out while doing Skull Merchant challenges yesterday across 5 games or so was to drop drones at generators only, and use Brutal Strength and Bamboozle to play around loops with regular m1 killer mind games (thereby removing the much hated close down loops strategy).
I was experimenting similarly to see how effective Skull Merchant would be if you took away her anti loop potency. You would not believe how many times I still got scans and claw traps out by doing this... Funnily enough I only had 2 players quit while I did this play style, 1 of whom was instant before they even saw what I was doing, the other was after he putzed it completely and fell for the simplest M1 mind game in the book of walking backwards at shack while on death hook.
I don't camp or tunnel, with the exception if noone goes for the save withing 40s, I will start making my way back to hook to cut survivors off, and if I'm body blocked from going after the unhooker after an unhook, I will take another hook stage.
I got a 4k in 1 game, 2 3ks (1 DC), a 2k and 1 4e. I'm not even using my power and I'm still getting middling results.... if I play Trapper, its 10 times harder and I'm basically a worse version of him with this style... Needless to say, it's hard to draw any conclusions from such a small sample size... but it looks to me like survivor effort plays a big factor.
The 4E was the game where you could see the survivors actually tried.
Edit: I also went against a couple of SMs yesterday who after the teammates who quit removed themselves from the game, took mercy on us and let us unhook and keep resetting before letting us go.
Skull Merchant's strut BTW looks hilarious when she moonwalks by in the distance xD
Just a little note to say not all Skull Merchant's are evil, 3-gen holding, camping, tunneling, trolling monsters.
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