Removing the hooks outside the basement sucks. (didn't they just add these 6mos ago?)
With the new procedural generation parameters that lovely hook that spawns on the corner of the shack will no longer be there.
I try not to tunnel as a killer so I don't ever hook in the basement since carrying someone down there wastes valuable seconds that I could be pressuring the map.
This step backwards encourages basement tunnelling. Please allow a hook to remain at the top of the basement for killers who want to pressure the map and not hooks.
Comments
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I personally like the hook going.
Because the basement is such a plus for the killer (despite the shack loop) it's almost no risk to try the basement hooks anymore, if a killer didn't feel like they'd make it they'd just hook them on the outside and it makes the basement a no brainer to at least try if you're kind of close.
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I mean did anyone use that hook?
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@Milo said:
I mean did anyone use that hook?Good killers who pressure the map. Basement is a waste of time if you dont tunnel. But I'm probly the only killer here who uses map pressure and doesn't cry about gen rush..
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Some would if they were too lazy to go down to the basement or just weren't good/confident in their gameplay. The change is good however since it was pointless to have a hook when there was 4 more permanent ones 10 meters away.
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@Might_Oakk said:
With the new procedural generation parameters that lovely hook that spawns on the corner of the shack will no longer be there.I try not to tunnel as a killer so I don't ever hook in the basement since carrying someone down there wastes valuable seconds that I could be pressuring the map.
This step backwards encourages basement tunnelling. Please allow a hook to remain at the top of the basement for killers who want to pressure the map and not hooks.
I agree, knowing that there is a survivor on a gen that is almost done, I alwasy brought my victim to the upper hook instead of wasting time geting into the basement.
But I assume they want to reduce hook numbers in general to please survivors which is sth I dont understand. Survivors were the ones complaining about slugging.......
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It went both ways in my opinion.
I agree on hooking people there to maintain pressure instead of wasting precious time going downstairs. What's the point of hooking in the basement if you're not going to hard patrol or camp, anyway?
However, most of the times that stupid hook got in the way when trying to hug walls, creating an even more frustrating loop to chase around in the shack, as a killer.
A sweet spot would be a couple of meters away, but that's my killer bias...3 -
It's funny how they try to prevent killer from doing his main objective. Good luck hooking an swf team with breakdown...
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I mean i do both things, hook them in the basement or outside, depending on the situation.@powerbats said:Some would if they were too lazy to go down to the basement or just weren't good/confident in their gameplay. The change is good however since it was pointless to have a hook when there was 4 more permanent ones 10 meters away.
Btw, so funny to hook people in the basement when playing as Leatherface. Survivors freak out and sometimes don't even go for the save because they think i'll be camping, meanwhile i'm on the other side of the map.2 -
@Milo said:
I mean did anyone use that hook?If I'm near basement but there's a hook at the top of the staircase I occasionally use it to save time. Usually in the case that I have momentum and I saw a survivor very recently. The time I save not going to the basement is usually enough for me to snowball by catching up to another survivor quickly. I'll usually do this if I've already sacrificed at least one survivor. Although it's pretty situational and there are plenty of maps where the basement is the worse option.
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Slug them if they have breakdown. The benefit of having them waste 35 seconds there (at least) outweighs the benefits of hooking them again. Because they'll break that hook, too.HellDescent said:It's funny how they try to prevent killer from doing his main objective. Good luck hooking an swf team with breakdown...
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@Condorloco_26 said:
It went both ways in my opinion.I agree on hooking people there to maintain pressure instead of wasting precious time going downstairs. What's the point of hooking in the basement if you're not going to hard patrol or camp, anyway?
However, most of the times that stupid hook got in the way when trying to hug walls, creating an even more frustrating loop to chase around in the shack, as a killer.
A sweet spot would be a couple of meters away, but that's my killer bias...
I always get stuck on it when I'm playing survivor since I'm looking back to watch the killer. Annoying.
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Exactly, I see so many people wasting important seconds to bring someone into the basement for nothing. It's nearly always better to get to the closest hook and keep the momentum and pressure high asap on the next survivorMight_Oakk said:@Milo said:
I mean did anyone use that hook?Good killers who pressure the map. Basement is a waste of time if you dont tunnel. But I'm probly the only killer here who uses map pressure and doesn't cry about gen rush..
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So it really goes both ways for survivors too.Might_Oakk said:I always get stuck on it when I'm playing survivor since I'm looking back to watch the killer. Annoying
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I need to play a few more matches to get a good feel for it, but I almost always preferred the upper hook to the basement one. There isn't much point to going down there for me, it wastes a lot of time and I don't run perks like Monstrous Shrine.1
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I'm okay with it going, honestly. I didn't really feel like it added anything, it just gave people a safety net when they misjudged their distance to the basement. With the way it measures distance to the basement now (top of stairs, rather than center of the basement) you should have a deadzone around the basement anyway.
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@Peanits said:
I'm okay with it going, honestly. I didn't really feel like it added anything, it just gave people a safety net when they misjudged their distance to the basement. With the way it measures distance to the basement now (top of stairs, rather than center of the basement) you should have a deadzone around the basement anyway.I frequently agree with the opinions you post, but I find this one a little biased. What happens to all the other safety nets in the game? i.e. the ones working against killers? Shouldn't they also go?
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@Condorloco_26 said:
@Peanits said:
I'm okay with it going, honestly. I didn't really feel like it added anything, it just gave people a safety net when they misjudged their distance to the basement. With the way it measures distance to the basement now (top of stairs, rather than center of the basement) you should have a deadzone around the basement anyway.I frequently agree with the opinions you post, but I find this one a little biased. What happens to all the other safety nets in the game? i.e. the ones working against killers? Shouldn't they also go?
I didn't bring those up because that's not what this thread is about. Though I'm typically against anything that rewards failure.
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@Peanits said:
I didn't bring those up because that's not what this thread is about. Though I'm typically against anything that rewards failure.
You're right, this thread is about a particular hook that may or may not help killers. I'm sorry but something just jumped when I read your post. Peace
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That hook kind of drives me a bit crazy as killer because I would rather hook in the basement, and when I see that hook I tend to think to myself basement is not here, only to see later that it is. Yea you spend more time getting the hook, but basement is a very unsafe place to be as survivor, especially if it's killers like Hag, LF, Huntress, or Trapper as they all have very strong basement play.
I'm indifferent really if it stays or goes.
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@Might_Oakk said:
@Condorloco_26 said:
It went both ways in my opinion.I agree on hooking people there to maintain pressure instead of wasting precious time going downstairs. What's the point of hooking in the basement if you're not going to hard patrol or camp, anyway?
However, most of the times that stupid hook got in the way when trying to hug walls, creating an even more frustrating loop to chase around in the shack, as a killer.
A sweet spot would be a couple of meters away, but that's my killer bias...
I always get stuck on it when I'm playing survivor since I'm looking back to watch the killer. Annoying.
Yup. Pretty much makes that loop easier for survivors now. It was a hook I rarely (if ever) used but Sometimes it helped block a survivor looking back at me.
Another over all survivor buff.
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Wasnt that hook there to prevent a deadzone without hooks but out of actual reach of basement?0
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@Raptorrotas said:
Wasnt that hook there to prevent a deadzone without hooks but out of actual reach of basement?Partially, but that is due in part to the way the distance to the basement hooks was previous measured, and also in part to the fact that hook previously did not have strict distribution rules. It used to be measured from the hook's actual position, which is sorta' irrelevant when you have to go down a staircase, make a u-turn and go back towards the hooks. Now it measures from the top of the stairs, giving a more consistent range, and hook spawning as a whole should be more consistently spaced out with less deadzones. You're still going to have a hook near the basement, just not directly up against it like you currently have on the live build.
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Honestly I never really acknowledged it playing as killer and survivor. It hasn't changed the game for me or turned the tides in any drastic way, so I really don't mind what happens to it. The hook I'm more concerned about is the one on the balcony at the Thompson House. Like, what?
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Honestly it doesn't really make much of a difference. It's just a quicker way to hook someone but in my preference I prefer hooking people in the basement. There's more time being wasted while people have to go downstairs to unhook and can possibly be downed in the basement if I do decide to return back.
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@Attackfrog said:
@Might_Oakk said:
@Condorloco_26 said:
It went both ways in my opinion.I agree on hooking people there to maintain pressure instead of wasting precious time going downstairs. What's the point of hooking in the basement if you're not going to hard patrol or camp, anyway?
However, most of the times that stupid hook got in the way when trying to hug walls, creating an even more frustrating loop to chase around in the shack, as a killer.
A sweet spot would be a couple of meters away, but that's my killer bias...
I always get stuck on it when I'm playing survivor since I'm looking back to watch the killer. Annoying.
Yup. Pretty much makes that loop easier for survivors now. It was a hook I rarely (if ever) used but Sometimes it helped block a survivor looking back at me.
Another over all survivor buff.
Yep another biased blinders post, I mean it's not like this was done because the hook spacing was being improperly done or anything like that.
Since there's 4 more hooks closer than they should be so if you want that hook to stay there you lose all 4 basement hooks. So go ahead and complain about it being a survivor buff since if you want it to be one you lose your basement hooks.
Now what's more important losing 4 permanent non sabotage able basement hooks that make a nice trap area or 1 measly hook a few meters away?
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@powerbats said:
@Attackfrog said:
@Might_Oakk said:
@Condorloco_26 said:
It went both ways in my opinion.I agree on hooking people there to maintain pressure instead of wasting precious time going downstairs. What's the point of hooking in the basement if you're not going to hard patrol or camp, anyway?
However, most of the times that stupid hook got in the way when trying to hug walls, creating an even more frustrating loop to chase around in the shack, as a killer.
A sweet spot would be a couple of meters away, but that's my killer bias...
I always get stuck on it when I'm playing survivor since I'm looking back to watch the killer. Annoying.
Yup. Pretty much makes that loop easier for survivors now. It was a hook I rarely (if ever) used but Sometimes it helped block a survivor looking back at me.
Another over all survivor buff.
Yep another biased blinders post, I mean it's not like this was done because the hook spacing was being improperly done or anything like that.
Since there's 4 more hooks closer than they should be so if you want that hook to stay there you lose all 4 basement hooks. So go ahead and complain about it being a survivor buff since if you want it to be one you lose your basement hooks.
Now what's more important losing 4 permanent non sabotage able basement hooks that make a nice trap area or 1 measly hook a few meters away?
You may have read my post with your own blinders on, based on that response. It is a minor change, but the only time it has been impartial for me is when a survivor wasn't paying attention and ran into it, buying me a second to close the chase.
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@Attackfrog said:
You may have read my post with your own blinders on, based on that response. It is a minor change, but the only time it has been impartial for me is when a survivor wasn't paying attention and ran into it, buying me a second to close the chase.
You it's a survivor buff, me it's being fixed due to improper distance calculations now see how one of us is using logic and the other nonsense?
You saying it's a survivor buff is nonsense since it's not supposed to be there when the basement is there, me saying it's not a survivor buff is logical due to my reasoning.
Now that I've proven which one of us was using the logical argument and facts to back it up and which was posting nonsense the one with the blinders on would be you.
Also if you needed that hook to close a chase then you didn't deserve to get them down since you either need to chase better or not chase their at all.
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I honestly didn't like the change and I play survivor majority of the time. I don't care about the basement and it wastes like 10 to 20 seconds and if I am not gonna use the basement it is just wasted time for me. I like the fact that both as a killer and survivor that hook is not gonna screw me but they could place it somewhere near the basement.
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@Delfador said:
I honestly didn't like the change and I play survivor majority of the time. I don't care about the basement and it wastes like 10 to 20 seconds and if I am not gonna use the basement it is just wasted time for me. I like the fact that both as a killer and survivor that hook is not gonna screw me but they could place it somewhere near the basement.It'll still be within 16 meters like it's supposed to be or somewhat closer to fulfill the minimum spacing requirements. When I'm playing killer I didn't depend on it being there since if you were screwing around there you were getting basemented.
As a survivor I never screwed around the shack if the basement was there since I knew most killers would basement me.
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@powerbats said:
@Attackfrog said:
You may have read my post with your own blinders on, based on that response. It is a minor change, but the only time it has been impartial for me is when a survivor wasn't paying attention and ran into it, buying me a second to close the chase.
You it's a survivor buff, me it's being fixed due to improper distance calculations now see how one of us is using logic and the other nonsense?
I don't think you read my post. I never said I needed that hook, just that the only time it has ever come in handy has been when a survivor ran into it. By removing it, you remove the chance that a survivor would run into it; that would be considered a (small) survivor buff.
You saying it's a survivor buff is nonsense since it's not supposed to be there when the basement is there, me saying it's not a survivor buff is logical due to my reasoning.
>
It may also have been improperly distanced. Is it possible we could both be right? Me: yes. You: Attackfrog is being "illogical" (which is funny, because if you read my post, you would see that I was actually being quite logical.Now that I've proven which one of us was using the logical argument and facts to back it up and which was posting nonsense the one with the blinders on would be you.
Again, you're just being both "illogical" and argumentative. Your lack of ability to see it from a Killer's side only strengthens that perspective.
Also if you needed that hook to close a chase then you didn't deserve to get them down since you either need to chase better or not chase their at all.
Take a look at my first point. Also, that loop is one of the most challenging to counter as a killer. I do believe most killers would agree. When you take away a feature that has a chance (no matter how small) of tripping up a survivor, you have a survivor benefit.
PS: I always lol when people say "deserve"...as if there is some sort of entitlement or that getting a kill/escape is somehow earned through effort. If I have to work hard for a down, am I more deserving? If I get a down through survivor error, do I "deserve" it? If someone escapes because the killer sucks at Nurse blinks, do they "deserve" it? Should I get more points if I "deserve" a kill/escape more? Who makes that call? You? The developers? Should we take a vote? Lol, surely you can see how THAT is illogical?
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@Attackfrog said:
Ok I can agree that it helps but to say it's a survivor buff would if you want to be semantical about it only accurate part of the time since when the basement isn't there the hook can still spawn there.
But how many people were actually hooked on it from further away ie they got taken to that hook even though it wasn't the closest? How many got downed right there or even inside the shack but the killer still went for the outside one?
Now how many survivors actually got stuck there, I know i've been stuck on it a few times but that's probably only 1% of my matches where I got downed there. Most of the times I got hooked there it was because the basement wasn't there.
Is it a difficult loop yes, but they removed the double windows and if anything it makes you chase the tiles better in the long run not needing a crutch hook there.
Now this will probably get me flamed from some survivors but an interesting idea occurred to me regarding the loop here. Since it's a unique area why not have it be affected by the Entity's window blocking sequence similar to windows?
For instance if you go through the same doorway 3x in quick succession the entity blocks the doorway the same way it'd block the window being used. that way you can still use the shack to loop and break los for a get away but can't use it forever.
Since there's only 2 doorways and 1 window you get a few loops there and if the killers running Bamboozle you'd get 3 loops max before you got locked out.
@Moderator Thoughts?
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@powerbats said:
@Attackfrog said:
Ok I can agree that it helps but to say it's a survivor buff would if you want to be semantical about it only accurate part of the time since when the basement isn't there the hook can still spawn there.
But how many people were actually hooked on it from further away ie they got taken to that hook even though it wasn't the closest? How many got downed right there or even inside the shack but the killer still went for the outside one?
Now how many survivors actually got stuck there, I know i've been stuck on it a few times but that's probably only 1% of my matches where I got downed there. Most of the times I got hooked there it was because the basement wasn't there.
Is it a difficult loop yes, but they removed the double windows and if anything it makes you chase the tiles better in the long run not needing a crutch hook there.
Now this will probably get me flamed from some survivors but an interesting idea occurred to me regarding the loop here. Since it's a unique area why not have it be affected by the Entity's window blocking sequence similar to windows?
For instance if you go through the same doorway 3x in quick succession the entity blocks the doorway the same way it'd block the window being used. that way you can still use the shack to loop and break los for a get away but can't use it forever.
Since there's only 2 doorways and 1 window you get a few loops there and if the killers running Bamboozle you'd get 3 loops max before you got locked out.
@Moderator Thoughts?
Ok, now I think we might be on the same page. I can see the semantic angle, but you have to remember: I almost never play as survivor (a daily here or there...but...yuk..), so anything that helps a survivor in any way, no matter how minor, will be blown out of proportion by my killer-sided brain!
You are right, I am not sure how many people used that hook. I know I used it if I downed one right next to it and there was a nother survivor right there, sort of as a quick hook before I chased the second. Having to go to the basement would have made me lose that second survivor but if I think back to those, the outside hook was far easier to rescue from (obviously) and I probably should have just hooked in the basement.
The entity blocking idea is good. That loop is just terrible, but then again, I don't play often enough to be as good at mind-gaming it like some streamers, so against good survivors, I get owned. Usually, if they are really good, I just break chase and find someone else. It's not a great strategy.
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i agree but i dont
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You don't need to be a tunneler to make basement hooks useful.
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