Is DBD getting stale?
So, after watching a video from CoconutRTS where he sort of reacts to another DBD content creator's video. It made me question whether or not the game is getting stale, like having all skill expression and fun sucked out of it. Some questions and reflections of my own below.
- Is SBMM to blame for the stagnation? - Like, most negative changes has happened after the transition from traditional DBD matchmaking to SBMM.
- Why would BHVR remove anything that has to do with skill-expression on both sides? - Like flashlight burn, various techs and flicks.
- What's the deal with invisible walls all over? - It was also part of skill-expression to figure out wacky stuff you could do as killer.
- Is the game too focused on the top level of play, where most matches are 4-man SWF vs. top level killers? - Explains all the nerfs and changes, especially for the survivor side.
Answers
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- 1.SBMM itself is not a bad thing, just look at overwatch, the problem i that the game have TWO DIFFERENT ROLES, a survivor can´t be better or good as a killer, because survivors and killers are completely different things
2.Most of the ´´techs´´/ flicks they´re removing are so easy to pull off that they dumb down your gameplay instead of showing that you´re good at using the vanilla character (old chucky turn rate and lightburn are really good examples)
3. i know the reason but i don´t care tbh
4. idk
sometimes, having 8 hours of dbd every day for 8 years is not healthy for you (not you, people in general), YOU are sucking the fun out of yourself, you know what i mean?
10 -
I think the game has been the most fresh its ever been. There's always an event or a chapter or rift or tome or game mode.
Survivor, despite it's current issues (especially on the solo q side) is more varied than ever with all the different killers that show up, even if you see some a bit more than others.
As killer, despite it often feeling like the current meta perks are so much better than the sillier options, I feel like there's more minor and chase and weird perks to try than ever. I personally hope the devs rebalance a lot of perks at once like they did a year or so ago.
4 -
There will never be a fix for "randomitis". Randoms are gonna random and that is generally what makes solo q excruciating. I still mostly play solo though and enjoy it more than with a mic.
Sbmm seems to have lightened up. Certainly not as strict as it once was.
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If the game is getting stale for people after 8 years and thousands of hours, that's not really surprising. It's overall an amazing run.
Skill expression - part of the issue here is the asymmetrical nature. In a symmetrical game both sides can advance on the same progression, on DbD some killers have a much high skill ceiling than survivors can possibly reach. So maybe the killer spent a lot of time to achieve that level of skill, but the survivor doesn't have an equal opportunity to match it.
4 -
Personally for me? No it hasn’t yet. I still start every game feeling really excited about the trial.
2 -
I find it funny how most of the things that were ‘fun’ to her was bullying the killer things the killer had no counter play against (wraith) locker saves, getting rid of crows etc she seems very entitled.
5 -
specially at night i mainlly play spirit because i constantly get swfs who also use a map offering to help themselve even more. If i tey playing any fun build or basic killer like wraith clown etc ill just get destroyed. Sbmm just kills killer options and builds options for me because to compete with those guys i need to be perk perk/killer choise wise .
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Firstly no, DBD has not gotten stale for me, although as a randomizer it will become far less familiar than someone who only uses a small number of perks and only a few builds. Besides that, your points:
- It partially does. The drive to go up in MMR, alongside the simplistic win/loss system in place can encourage less experimentation. The game becomes more predictable and feels more like a slog if that's the aim. Yet I only say "partially" because people played that way before too, and there's much more than a ranking system that determines those changes. I'd argue it's a better system than before - that doesn't mean it's not flawed.
- Some of the techs were not as intended, and hug techs especially were deemed rather unfair. However, some of the other decisions - such as lightburn being removed - did seem rather frustrating and did dumb down the experience and individuality.
- I would like to see these removed. Some of the invisible walls make no sense and take away from the flexibility of the game. It's too restrictive. Too safe.
- I don't think so. If anything, the "dumbing down" feels more focused on newer players, since flashlights were made easier to hit and the game is streamlined. There's still variety, but some of those changes have limited the game a bit.
1 -
HEAVILY disagree on that
SBMM works in a game like OW since when you queue up for a comp game, you and your team are expected to play at their best, as well as their team. Even in OW people are scolded for playing full comps in casual lobbies. DbD is a casual game for the large majority of the playerbase and no one wants to sweat the majority of their games, especially since they dont have control of it.
The techs are absolutely a form of skill expression, even if theyre on the easier side. Seeing Oni or PHead flick with perfect accuracy still shows that there has been time dedicated in that character, especially since theyre most than likely playing very well in addition to doing these flicks. Seeing a Billy or Demo fly through the air or a Wesker do a pixel perfect dash to slide across a surface also shows experience and hours poured into the character while also looking quite impressive.
The game is the most balanced that its ever been. Hell most complaints you heard back in 2017-2018 are basically all resolved, but we were all wrong that balanced = fun.
2 -
I think how stale it gets depends on the player.
I myself could play endless hours of Piggy. Others can play hours upon hours of blight. Survivor, especially soloq is always a mixed bag, so every match feels different.
It all comes down to what your expectations are on the game and each match.
Are your bringing the same stuff every game?
Are you playing the same character every game?
Do you value the fun of a match over winning?
All these are very subjective and how stale Dbd becomes for you, heavily depends on the answers.
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My stints of playtime between breaks is dwindling. I took a month off, came back for maybe 2 weeks, now I’m off again and doing another run on Elden Ring. Them dumbing down blight is probably gonna do it for me. I don’t see myself playing DbD all too much in the future. It was a good run though. Logged many a hours. Maybe they’ll release a sweet chapter and it’ll bring me back.
1 -
and i agree almost 100% with you
but:
Overwatch have a hidden MMR for casual and arcade matches, you can´t see it but they´re there, you queue with people from your level, a bit lower or a bit higher, and this is literally the same thing we have on dbd currently, but in DBD it just doesn´t work very well (but better than the old rank tbh)
About the techs, doing them indeed shows experience, but hitting a normal tentacle strike as nemesis (for example) is so much harder and need so much more skill than hitting a survivor by dragging your hitbox, the drag ´´dumb down´´ your aim skills most of the time, and this is not a bad thing, but they´re removing (at least for now, besides the hug tech) only the bad ones, like locker saves, lightburn (cmon, looping wraith needs so much more skill than holding m2 while you look at his body, like, cmon) chucky flicks (exploding your mouse with 9284 DPI is not showing skill, i´m sorry, like, you don´t even need to aim or think you just throwit and that´s it) etc etc etc
1 -
It does have MMR yes, but you can tell it is WAY more lenient and also people are generally a lot less tense and casual most of the time.
I also agree that some techs need/needed to be removed, but something like Sky Billy/Space Billy should of never left
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SBMM was the worst thing to happen to this game. Ranking up should be based on how well you played, not escapes and kills.
1 -
SBMM is doing what it did to cod for me. Making it more stressful than my actual job.
I quit cod because of it. DBD is becoming the same. I am so over sweating every match for no reward.
2 -
I finally picked up Identity V today and goodness am loving it, it feels so impactful survivors/hunters having unique things. They have cool things like making your room. They have story mode which feels like an mmo.
They have a event where they are giving new players like me nice things atm. There is so much for me to do I do not even know where to begin.
The game just feel so chill even if your being tunneled lol. I only did two match of dbd today before going on identity and both was a proxy camping/tunneling billy and huntress , and funny thing both was using devour hope which explains why they kept going back to ever unhook honestly am about to just hit uninstall on dbd at this rate.
2 -
Streamlined - There is the word.
Many modern games are over-streamlined, which makes them dull to play. Allowing more flexibility is way better than streamlining everything.1 -
I will heavily agree on the Overwatch statement.
I do play OW myself, and it is much more relaxed, especially in the unranked and arcade playlists. People who sweat a lot goes to ranked to hopefully get their spots on the leaderboards, but other than that, it has been a good experience for me (and my girlfriend, who got me into the game in the first place).
Granted, Overwatch does have its own problem, being a F2P game, it has issues such as smurfs and cheaters to a greater extent than DBD does.
1 -
This is how ranking should work in a game like this. Not the "lazy" way of being based just on kills/escapes.
If I had a word or two to say about the ranking, it should definitely be weighted based on how you did in the match.
For survivors, I would have gone with the following metrics:- Teamwork - How well you co-operate with the other survivors, teamworking on generators, healing and taking hits for others / trading hook stages, providing beneficial buffs for the team (like boons or perks that benefit the team), cleansing hexes and so on.
- Individual skill - This can be done through skill checks actually rating your skill (percentage of great vs. good vs. missed skill checks), how well you can loop the killer (time lasted in chases), time staying alive (has to be capped at a certain time) and so on.
- Survival - Did you manage to escape or not.
For killers, the metrics would look like this:
- Hook stages - How well you perform in terms of hooking the survivors. Bonus points for not hooking the same survivor twice in a row, and less points for doing so (to prevent tunneling, and promote more fair play).
- Chases - How fast you are able to down a survivor that you are chasing. More points awarded for shorter chases, and vice versa.
- Kills/Sacrifices - None would lose you some points, 1 = No gain/ or minor loss, 2 = Gain some points, 3 = Less gain over 2, but some bonus points should be given for doing very well. Since 3 kills is determined as a win, there shouldn't be too much of an incentive to go for the 4th. 4 = No additional points awarded over the 3rd kill. Only bragging rights
- Power usage - How well you can use your power to get downs with, instead of just basic attacking (M1). - Granted, this metric would need to be adjusted on a per-killer basis, to make weaker killers (like Trapper or Freddy) gain more from using their powers as an aid to get survivors downed.
- Game slowdown - How well can you make the game harder for the survivors? - Points lost for 3-genning.
1 -
Issue is SBMM use basically only worst things it can bring.
It simply makes game "sweatier", but you have nothing to get from it as a player. You can't see it, you don't get anything for it.
It's more like a punishment than reward…I am not saying ranks were perfect, but they separated regularly playing from new / after break players. That seemed good enough for me.
1 -
I fully agree. It did separate the players more than SBMM does.
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first week after rank reset would be literal hell for every newer player
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That depends, since rank 1's would be taken back to rank 9, and anyone around there would be put back at rank 15 or so
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I don’t think so. I can understand why content creators who have to play this game for multiple hours a day are tired of it though. Personally though I’m still having fun and think this is one of the best states the game has been in.
I don’t think having SBMM is necessarily a problem, but it is pretty bad in its current state. The issue is though, how do you fix it when it’s a combination of casual and comp players together?
Skill expression - some has been removed I’ll agree. Flashlight timings and Billy curves being made easier kind of sucks. Light burn against Nurse should have stayed as well and was a great example of skill expression. Other killers though, I have no issues with the removal and didn’t find it skilful in the first place. It didn’t take skill to burn Wraith or Hag. As for techs, it depends on the tech honestly. Ones that are problematic like stagger tech and Blight old Z tech should definitely go. Things like Oni flick, urobending, and CJ though should stay simply because they don’t become uncounterable or often problematic. Hug tech I will give a pass for removing because the community begged for that to be removed for years and that’s just a case of BHVR listening to feedback
Invisible walls - screw them. I need my flying Demo back :(
Only catering to high skill players - heavily disagree. If that were the case then DS wouldn’t be considered for changes since top skill survivors can already use it very well. Same with making flashlights easier. Seems more like they are catering to both ends but leaning slightly towards the bottom. Not sure what survivor changes you are talking about here.
1 -
- That depends really.
A: If you are someone who play mostly killer, then the game is probably the best and most fun in the current state.
B: If you play mostly survivor (as anything but a 4-man SWF group), then the experience is horrible, due to the stale killer meta and bad survivor items/perks.
C: If you play both sides equally, then you see the reason why some might quit the game for the time being.
2. SBMM in this game is fundamentally flawed, as it currently is. The old rank based system did for the most part separate out players by their general skill level. Granted, matches took longer to find, but imo, it is better getting matched up with players of similar skill, and have a clear goal to go for (meaningful rank-ups is one thing). Better quality matches, some might say.
Current matchmaking is really hit or miss, whether or not you get nice close games, or a full-on stompfest from the killer side. This is due to the matchmaking being way too lenient in the high-skill bracket.
I have experienced this way too many times on both sides, and it kills every bit of fun you might have had with the game. This was rarely the case with the old rank-based matchmaking, since you got matched with equal players for most of the time.
Two possible solutions would be
A: Divide the higher skill bracket into more tiers - This gives a longer matchmaking time, but leads to better quality matches overall.
B: Separate modes. A ranked mode (with the old-school style tight matchmaking) and actual ranks again, and an unranked "quickplay" mode, with the current matchmaking, but looser, to allow for very short queue times.3. Yes, I do agree that some of the "skill expression" was kinda meh, but in all honesty, it should have been kept in the game, as a means to counterplay. I mean, what can you really do against a bamboozle wraith these days, other than holding W, and force pallet drops. At least the lightburn mechanic bought you some time, in exchange for flashlight battery life. And for Hag, it was a very niche way of getting rid of her traps. She got an overall nerf from that change, since any survivor can wipe away traps now. No idea what the mindset was behind those changes anyways.
4. Invisible walls kills the fun, enough said.
5. Well, I was somewhat wrong, but from the perspective of someone playing 70/30 survivor/killer, and mostly solo/duo as survivor, the game is certainly not balanced around this. 4-man tryhard SWF groups will for the most part be on equal terms with the killer. But yes, the current balance has been too centered around co-ordinated teams who knows exactly what to do in any given situation, and killers have been way overtuned to better counter 4-man SWF's.
All in all, as the game currently stands, seeing the same killers with the same perk builds, and 4-man SWF groups with the same perk builds gets stale really fast. That is my honest opinion.
My wish is that BHVR finds a way to strike a perfect balance between killer and survivor (if they want a 60% kill-rate, then so be it), and that they look deeply into the matchmaking system. Also as a bonus, they should really do funny game modes more often. I would love to see a randomizer mode, where you get random perks, items and add-ons, and maybe for the killer, a randomly picked killer. I think that would be a really fun mode. Oh, and random cosmetics too. That would be hilarious1 - That depends really.
