Discussion: What do we want if a Twins rework is still on the cards?
Obviously BHVR had to walk back on the Twins changes, and with the changes made they are still basically themselves as they were, but just better. However Peanits left us a note that a Twins rework my still be on the horizon.
We may revisit The Twins in a future update, if necessary, but these smaller tweaks will make The Twins feel better to play for the time
So if a Twins rework is still potentially in the future, what issues/points do we reckon should be taken into consideration?
Comments
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For myself, this is kinda where I lean:
(1) The Twins should allow for really smooth transitions between them, make them feel as if they are one.
The Twins were once conjoined beings, and their whole shtick should be about complimenting each other; bringing unique skills the other does not possess. This is realised well enough with Charlotte being the large and powerful M1 killer who can break pallets and pickup survivors, while Victor is the fast chase pouncing menace, but this does feel like Charlotte got the raw end of that deal. Lexi's idea is one I like:
Allow Twins to press and hold the swap button to channel for 2s and switch places between Charlotte and Victor on a cooldown.
This sounds like a good extension of the Twins idea. It would help with hooking, and thus reducing the push towards having to slug constantly, and interchanging with each other depending on the situation (with an appropriate cooldown of course) could see some interesting mind games, and make Charlotte feel more like shes part of the party. It also plays nicely on the trope of twins being of 1 mind, especially as conjoined Twins.
(2) Victor should be encouraged to Pounce from afar, instead of always crawling under people's feet.
One thing that always bothered me is Victor is punished hard for missing... which is fine in of itself, but it creates this issue where Victor basically always crawls up under the survivors feet and pounces at point blank to ensure he can hit survivors. He COULD go for a long pounce, but if he misses, he eats a kick, so if he wants to help himself, he attacks point blank. A change I would propose is:
Make it so Victor is stunned the same for both wall and survivor hits, and scale down based on how far he leaps.
Hitting a wall/survivor at point blank stuns him for 5 seconds. Air balling or hitting a wall/survivor with a long range leap scales all the way down to a 1s recovery, as if he caught himself and sprung off running instead of rammed into things with his face. Combined with the swap idea above, I feel like this would reward Victor for trying for longer leaps, which becomes more fun for survivors as well trying to juke it, and also makes slugging less appealing without trying for big leaps.
(3) Further discourage Slugging.
Just male it less effective. Feeding off my second suggestion, I'd be tempted to:
Increase Victor's stuns for both hits and wall hits by 1s for each hit he scores on a injured survivor, without switching back to Charlotte or grabbing a healthy survivor.
Make it as if he's suffering with fatigue. This may not be necessary, but it'd be a way to nerf him if the other changes are too much.
Tackling these issues would be what I would consider, and how I would consider doing it... but how its done doesn't really matter, these are things I'd like to change about Twins gameplay in any kind of rework.
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After the PTB changes that took two years to test I don't want any kind of rework, thanks.
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Most of BHVR's "reworks" are flops I'm sorry.
They end up having to rework the "reworks".
Skull Merchant is still atrocious . Onryo is awful you either stomp or get stomped. Blight was about to be disastrous but they finally decided to listen to feedback on that one after the PTB. Twins PTB was so bad that they didn't even end up going through with it which I appreciate.
But at some point it's like how do they mess up everytime? Like didn't they have the vision to see that Twins PTB would be disliked so much and that it has the most obvious design flaws?
So at this point idek what I want because I know BHVR would screw it up to make sure it's the most unfun thing ever.😭
The only thing is it would be nice to find a way to not make slugging the only viable strategy for them.
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Id like to see more of a tag team between the 2, and make Charlotte a little more threatning and interesting to play.
Maybe instead of only being able to seperate like they do currently, make it so Victor can be commanded to block a window or pallet (during which he can be crushed), pouncing on an injured Survivor instead makes Victor scratch at that Survivor, pinning them similarly to a Bear Trap but not downing them. If they get him off in time then they stand back up.
And another idea that Ive always loved simply because of how funny itd be, is seeing Charlotte just throwing Victor.
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Keep them how they are now but add more counter play to Victor. Victor not being able to be taken hostage needs to stay. Remove the Victor speed addons. They are too good. She needs a full addon rework for that matter, so many bad addons.
Next I think making it while you’re using Victor blood is gone and survivors are silent. I think between Victor being slower, no scratch marks, no blood, and silent survivors he will have a lot more counter play for losing him.
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sad but true. If every rework was as good as Billy’s that would be a dream
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It's really sad that they first announced the Twins rework years ago, kept pushing it back, and then ended up making them so absurdly OP that it was clear they were gonna have to revert most of it.
Twins players waited years for some number changes that could have added ages ago.
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It's pretty much this why I want to raise this thread.
BHVR are listening more than they have in the past, they obviously don't blindly go along with whatever we say, but they are at least listening... the walk back on the Pig in conjunctions with her buff, the Clown rework was good (would you believe I actually like Clown now! I was wrong when I said he was weak), and Huntress changes to leave them overall in a better place was something I have to applaud them for (though Huntress was questionable). Doctors QoL improvement was also undeniably good.
Hillbilly was an absolute triumph... and what all of these reworks had in common was a guiding purpose, a particular idea fundamental to the killer playerbase that was realised. Pig had her macro game in tact, Clown had his anti loop power kept in tact, Doctor is no longer add-on dependent, Huntress is also freed up alot on her add-ons, Hillbilly is throwing out his chainsaw like the madman he always was without a care in the world.
So even if our suggestions weren't put in place, having a guiding idea made these reworks all a triumpth... and Sadako isn't quite there, but she isn't far away, a couple of stones thrown for her, and she's got it.
So if we can at least define some goals for a rework, even if what we suggest might not come to fruition, something with the right principles in mind should hopefully make Twins a Billy, not a Trickster.
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Yes. I'm really grateful that they usually listen to feedback if there's an obvious backlash. I still wish they had a clearer vision and well-thought designs before stepping into their reworks.
I don't have any idea on how to improve Twins either but I hope that players like you in our community that take time out of their day to share their opinions on how Twins can be improved are heard by the devs.
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I agree 💯 ☺️☺️
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I'm starting to think that every time the Twins are touched, the game implodes.
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