If you think reshade doesn't give you an advantage....
Watch this:
Comments
-
And do you really think to play with this filter on ReShade can help to loop ?
0 -
Man I watched about 30s of that and instant headache. Good luck to anyone who wants to play like that.
10 -
Not so sure I agree there is a big advantage on display here.
I don't have an opinion on the matter—just don't see this as convincing evidence one way or another.
8 -
And what would that change if it gave you an advantage? It is white listed to use just like Nvidia or AMD filters or using the options the monitor gives you...
1 -
This was in question?
Of course it gives an adavntage. No need of a Tru3talent video. Common sense is enough.
10 -
Sidenote, but I really do not like Tru3's experiment.
If Tru3 was really trying to test the difference it makes, ideally they would need a Control Group. The same Killer/Survivors, on the same map, with the same perks and everything, since it reduces variables that could affect the result. The issue is that Tru3 wants to do experiments that I do think are interesting to watch but ultimately fail to apply any form of scientific process or method to reduce outside influences from affecting the results.
He only went back on this… like a week or so after starting this whole thing? After being called out for his experiment not really removing outside influences and not using a Control Group, and only after going on an entire rant on Twitter about how they were being unfairly cancelled when nobody was cancelling them. I think Tru3 DOES have some good points but he does not do a good job to really support them or put people in a position where they feel inclined to support him.
And dont get me wrong, I do think filters provide an advantage, I use them to help with my colorblindness so they gotta be doing something, but overall it relies on if BHVR thinks they should/shouldnt be used, and we have basically heard little to nothing from their end.
(AS POINTED OUT BY OTHERS: BHVR has to opt into Nvidia Filters being provided for their game so BHVR currently supports filters to some capacity. Im editing this to help prevent misinformation from being spread.)
Post edited by Iron_Cutlass on4 -
Okay now do it with filters that normal people use to colour correct, sharpen, etc instead of this monstrosity that gave me a migraine less than an hour after waking up
3 -
Meh doesn’t really matter
0 -
I think the devs said they won't ban people for using filters...
1 -
FWIW on that last point Nvidia Freestyle (filters) is a whitelist only, opt-in program. It doesn't work in games that a developer doesn't want it to work in. The fact that it works in DBD is implicitly saying it's okay.
2 -
It'd help killers I suppose
0 -
The comparison he gives is comparing apples to oranges. - Does nightvision give you an advantage when you can see something but the other can't? Yes. Does even the reddest of red filters he uses there compare to that? No. You can actually see very nicely that there's a hard fall off where it's being more red, so you don't actually see more - or better. (Vanilla has a more gradient falloff so you can actually see more of the red stain - but it's fainter.)
Though, the most important thing that makes me think that filters are more about personal preference and countering some personal isssues, be that colourblindness or cognitive stuff*(see below) or something else, is that some of the best surv players don't use filters. Are they just that much better, that despite not having filters, i.e. even at a disadvantage, they're still better? Or is it that seeing that kind of information more clearly is, at the end of the day, not the deciding factor? I'm more inclined toward the latter.
*(For a while I ran a pretty much Black and white filter with only red and that certain kind of yellow the WoO auras have because I literally couldn't see stuff; people told me "take that window" and I was "WHAT WINDOW?!!" because with all the visual clutter I just couldn't see it. By now I kinda know the tiles, so I know where a window should be without seeing it, so I'm good but back then that filter was a life saver. - Ugly af, but kinda necessary.)
0 -
And survivors, makes it easier to see the red stain through walls and such...
2 -
Thank you for pointing this out, I was not aware, my apologies for any misinformation, I have edited the reply to correct this. 👍️
0 -
Stains aren't as "hard to see" as scratch marks imo
0 -
Sure, but both should be visible if the game was working properly xD But sometimes they appear on some random wall and go way too far into a room despite the survivor going there in what not... People using filters is only a result of DBD s poor optimization and lacking of I game options for brightness and what not.
1 -
Most people don't play with ridiculous filters like this. We just make the game look better and prettier than it looks normally. No color changing or enhancements.
Why is it PC players fault anyways that console folks can't use filters. Its not our fault that many people prefer playing on their couch 10 meters away from tv that can't use filters. Life is about choices.
3 -
It is kind of silly to blame the players of a certain Plattform for being able to customize settings outside of the game instead of blaming the game and it's creators for not offering those setting in the game to begin with.
3 -
do you think no one uses these?
0 -
Yeah, you can see the red stain better with filters but don’t forget you still need game sense 😃
1 -
Like that? Seriously? No lol
0 -
I laughed out loud as soon as I saw it.
1 -
Have you never watched a tournament? People do use these types of filters.
5 -
Yeahhh… I just don't care tbh
5 -
I really did too.
I don't use reshade out of principle. You are using a 3rd party program to gain an advantage, in my mind, that is hacking plain and simple. It is no different than me using "hacks" to increase my movement speed. It is using something that is not in the game, to give me an advantage over other players.
I never really saw it as that big of a deal though, giving that much of an advantage, and it wasn't really a big deal to me. Then when i saw this experiment my jaw dropped. This thing gives SO much advantage that it may as well be a requirement to play the game at a high level.
1 -
We're still arguing about this? All these filters do is cause headaches, and strain eyes.
0 -
as far as I know filters are whitelist by bhvr just like communication apps (which give a far bigger advantage)
3 -
Honestly, the difference between Low and Ultra Graphics is probably more of an advantage than this, and it doesn't make your game look like complete ass.
1 -
as a console player, I don’t either
1 -
While a control group would normally and for many things make sense, it does not for this. There's no reason to. The test is for visuals, perks or survivors specifically is on the verge of entirely irrelevant. This isn't testing skill or power level, it's literally just how the screen looks. The closest you're gonna get to any difference would be map and even then the result is very similar. If you still disagree, please provide examples of perks or how different survivors could in any way affect this result. I feel like this is all reaching very hard to find an issue with it. He also has all his vods as well as our own visual experience of those same maps already to compare them to.
0 -
Someone could also tweak the hue settings on their TV/Monitor. You can also turn the brightness up. Nothing you can do about it. I don't see it as an advantage. Maybe it makes it 1 percent easier to see the red stain. Like you can see the stain just fine without any settings being tweaked. Why are people acting like this is some huge problem and this giant advantage.
1 -
I mean does it really matter THAT much? Most if not all people don't use filters like these except comp players which already are very scarce. End of story: Reshade is white listed because you cannot physically block out all filters and removing reshae from the white list will just cause people to find other ways that aren't detectable by EAC. Better yet my monitor itself has different filter settings that allows me to change saturation, contrast, brightness and color temp. It might not be the full customization but its still something.
Post edited by Brimp on1 -
Quantifying how much of an advantage it brings to the table is important, so you need a Control Group and limited Variables to compare between, otherwise it creates room for misinformation, bias, or results that are altered by Variables not accounted for.
The entire foundation of experiments is reducing outside influences and trying to pull the most accurate results. Saying "we dont need to reduce other variables because there is no reason to" is fundamentally stupid and ignores potential nuance that could exist.
Who are we to say that filters provided a player a given advantage in a scenario when the Killers in Group A was worse than the Killer in Group B. Likewise, what if the Survivor was worse than the Killer in Group A, the Survivor in Group B would suddenly look better regardless if filters are being used. Tru3 did most of his testing in public matches against random players on random maps where no such Control Groups existed, meaning a LOT of variables could have affects the results.
Likewise, it creates great probability for error to exist. In science, things are not determined by if they are right or wrong, but moreso for the margin of error. To put it bluntly, science and experiments do not deal with "absolutes" but moreso "the least amount of error possible." If experiments in DBD are not held to such scrutiny, it can easily lead to misinformation being spread around, which is something we, as a community, should not stand for.
You can hold your own opinion about filters and such, as I have my own as well, but at the same time our own bias should not act as an excuse for misinformation and flawed experiments to be spread around.
0 -
"Quantifying how much of an advantage it brings to the table is
important, so you need a Control Group and limited Variables to compare
between, otherwise it creates room for misinformation, bias, or results
that are altered by Variables not accounted for. "No one's disagreeing with this as a concept. It just doesn't apply to this scenario.
"Who are we to say that filters provided a player a given advantage in a
scenario when the Killers in Group A was worse than the Killer in Group
B. Likewise, what if the Survivor was worse than the Killer in Group A,
the Survivor in Group B would suddenly look better regardless if filters
are being used."Because their skill is irrelevent for what is being tested. What is being tested is not how well you can use the advantage based on your skill, it's for measuring "does the red stain reach 2 meters further".
"Likewise, it creates great probability for error to exist. In science,
things are not determined by if they are right or wrong, but moreso for
the margin of error. To put it bluntly, science and experiments do not
deal with "absolutes" but moreso "the least amount of error possible."
If experiments in DBD are not held to such scrutiny, it can easily lead
to misinformation being spread around, which is something we, as a
community, should not stand for."Yes, we all know this, but this has nothing to do with my point. I think you are conflating two things as similar when they're not. Those two things being the objective value it provides and the subjective value it provides based on skill.
We can see this illustrated by the fact that when I asked for examples you gave none. You just listed off why control groups are important, which is obvious. The question is not why control groups are important and matter, the question is for you to provide an example of why in this specific scenario a control group is needed. Provide me a perk, a survivors skill, or a map that would hypothetically mess up his experiment with them being different.
As I already mentioned, when he's measuring how far the red stain shows between filter and no filter, the map, skill, or perks being ran provide zero difference on the objective advantage provided. This is my example as to why this is an exception to where your control group is not needed. Please provide a hypothetical example as to why I'm wrong.
I think that you are wanting a control group to control for factors that don't actually need to be controlled because those factors actually have zero influence over what is being measured.
0 -
If i were the developers i would not whitelist it. Simple. I would remove the filters that make it so these are possible, and i would take reports of people using this type of thing very seriously, and use easy anti-cheat to detect and ban people for using it.
1 -
Yes it will give an advantage even if it is slight, however they got rid of the bigger problem on PC which was always stretched res
0 -
With the exception of those hacks being approved by BHVR ^^ The same as comma right?
0 -
Gladly you are not a Dev because that is a horrible idea... Not only is it questionable to try to ban people for using filters provided by the graphics cards it also puts such things on the same level as cheats which is bonkers... That's something not even remotely comparable...
4 -
The filters are enabled by BHVR themselves, people have already stated so in the thread. If they removed those hooks in the game, then the filters would not work.
0 -
You realize what I am talking about is not just what is displayed in the video. I am talking about the entirety of Tru3's "experiment" stream, which has far more than what this video is showing. Im sure you can find the VOD if you want, since it is on his Twitch.
The entire stream was not just about "rather they provide an advantage or not", the stream was about "how much of an advantage it provides," which is WHY my points are important and should not be ignored; this one video was just a small part of the entire stream, since Tru3 uploads small clips or matches instead of his entire stream onto YouTube, thus they are not entirely representative of all the points Tru3 is trying to make since not all of it is actually there.
0 -
This is shown from a survivor's perspective and, yes, there is a clear advantage.
However, tracking red feels more important as killer so I'd say this stuff will help killers more.
I mean, finding a speck of red that I wouldn't otherwise see from far away is bound to help me track survivors.
0 -
He has been playing both sides on the experiment. And this isn't an "us vs them" thing, this is cheating.
0 -
I never said anything in the form of "us vs them". Read more carefully.
I've clearly stated it was giving an advantage to the survivor side.
My statement was more that this is "nothing" next to what I imagine it would be for killer. I've not watched another video. I'm only speaking from my Nurse main experience.
Cheating, both sides.
We had this conversation a few days ago with the equalizer crap: cheating, plain and simple.
P.S.: In summary I would love for this to be banned.
0 -
No because comp dbd is a joke and anyone who thinks it's an accurate representation of the average player is having a giggle
8 -
I'm sorry then… you do not get how some competitive people go about these things. if they perceive it as advantageous, they'll use it.
0 -
Reshade yes, but filters provided by the graphics card company is something different I guess... I would not think it to be too far fetched to assume that if you block those programs then this might give problems to the game running on that graphics card so I would not be too sure about that... Besides that it is also something that can be reached by the hardware settings on your monitor... So we going to ban specific monitors as well? ^^
0 -
Just a technical thing, it's the other way round - reshade is the program they can't really intercept without something very invasive a la Riot's anti-cheat, the ones that come on the graphics card (Nvidia Freestyle and whatever the Radeon equivalent is) are the ones that BHVR have actively accepted and whitelisted.
1 -
Interesting... I would have assumed that those programs are basically a given... Because for example my AMD drivers have the whole pack installed basekit so if I want to update the drivers the "filter" package is already a given I cannot have the drivers without the options of filters... I can just decide to not use them. So not allowing to have them installed in my case would be equal to not allowing me to have drivers for my graphics card.
0 -
I believe us on console are locked in at High graphics settings, and cannot change it. For a while I was wondering if we would regain anything performance-wise if we could change that setting like our PC cousins can, but like a year back or so they said no it wouldn't'.
0 -
They said lowering the graphics wouldn't do anything or something. The game is throttled by the CPU on consoles but more than enough opimised for the GPU.
1
