Fog Whisperers and the public announcement of Consultant program

lachenstars

So I just wanted to make a post in support of the Fog Whisperers after hearing how SpookyLoopz has explained his perspective on publicly announcing a 'new' group of game testers with more influence on game balance changes. As a member of several Fog Whisperer communities, I was under the impression that they could voice their honest opinions about the game to the Devs and would be taken seriously. Obviously, they have their own internal testing team (Spooky and some others have mentioned that this consultation group has been around for years) and the Devs seem to place a great weight on statistics (most of which we don't have access to) when making balance changes. We have seen many good ideas from the community discussed by the Fog Whisperers, and occasionally it appears that these ideas are listened to, but frequently many changes have baffled the community as well as the Fog Whisperers, some of whom appear frustrated. They have been put in an unenviable position to appear partly responsible for terribly thought-out changes like the Twins rework and trying to be a good public face for BHVR.

I do not know all the details, and I think it's possible 2 separate groups could work fine. OhTofu is the only Fog Whisperer I know that I believe is part of this 'new' Consultation Crew, but there could be others. But it should be made clear why there are 2 groups and what their roles are. Why publicly announce that there is a group of community members that the Devs will listen to, when the Fog Whisperer program already exists? The Fog Whisperers are mainly good PR for BHVR. Their focus has always been to make good content for the game, and the Devs give them things like in game money to show off new skins and codes that they can share with their community. Maybe I've been mistaken thinking that the Fog Whisperer program carried significant weight as representatives of the community's opinions. But I think that I'm not alone in thinking that the Devs would consider Fog Whisperer feedback more seriously than the average forum poster like me.

I don't believe that Fog Whisperers have been given any insight into changes coming to any PTB ahead of time, as they are just as surprised as the rest of the community when something like nerfing Billy or "nerfing" Blight add-ons is announced. I don't recall ANYONE saying they thought Huntress needed all the buffs she got on the PTB, and if they had to come the Fog Whisperers before that PTB went live, I'm certain Spooky and others would have told them exactly what they said when they tested the buffs on the PTB. Spooky stated during comments on his quitting the Fog Whisperer program that he came to terms long ago with the fact that the Fog Whisperers aren't really looked to for input on game changes. The Fog Whisperer program is essentially just marketing. And that's okay.

However, by announcing a "new" Consultant Crew program, BHVR is publicly undermining the Fog Whisperer's credibility. This says to the community, "hey, HERE'S a group that we'll ACTUALLY listen to for input! You, the community are being represented by THESE people." And in a vacuum, that's a great move. There needs to be a group the Devs can reliably listen to that has their finger on the pulse of community opinions. And this program has supposedly been around for years. But why not include the Fog Whisperers? BHVR is implicitly underlining the fact that they haven't been taking the Fog Whisperers very seriously, when many make very valid points and helpful suggestions. Hopefully more Fog Whisperers can be part of this "new" consultation program if they want to be. Perhaps some would rather simply focus on creating the best content they can for their viewers. But I understand why Spooky decided to resign from the Fog Whisperer program in light of how this public announcement of a Consultant Crew looks.

When you stop and think about it, this announcement is BHVR shooting themselves in the foot.

1. This program has already existed for years. Did BHVR think that fact wouldn't come to light? Saying this is a new program is disingenuous.
2. Knowing now that they had a group giving feedback, how effective do we think this group was, given the plethora of very poor reworks that made it through testing to the PTB stage, where the community including Fog Whisperers pointed out things that anyone that actively plays DBD would notice as problematic?
3. So this group was either ignored or didn't have the good feedback that many Fog Whisperers had.

The Fog Whisperers worked hard to be good brand ambassadors, putting out the fires that the Devs created which might have been avoidable had they consulted the Fog Whisperers. The private group of consultants they had didn't prevent some egregious changes making it to the PTB. I believe Otz has stated his disappointment with the Devs not taking his suggestions seriously and has stopped making many videos about balance changes. I'm sure the Devs did listen to some of what was suggested, and of course not everything the Fog Whisperers want is necessarily good or feasible to implement, but when someone like Otz is dissuaded, it speaks volumes. Everyone is passionate about this game we love, and not everyone agrees with the direction that is best for the health and growth of the game and its community. At the end of the day, the Devs have the final say; it is their game.

This move to publicly name a new group, that is basically not new, as representatives of the community for feedback regarding balance changes appears to be an attempt to placate the community that sometimes wonders if the Devs play their own game. Will this now public group be any more effective at showing the Devs that certain ideas are bad - saving time and manpower on changes that are instantly rejected by the community - before they reach the PTB stage? Though I believe that the Fog Whisperers I interact with are smart, passionate, and have integrity, I feel sorry for them because this move undermines all of that.

GentlemanFridge

The Fog Whisperers, to my knowledge, have always been ambassadors for the game, and not so much consultants as the program that got revealed now. Fog Whisperers are essentially just the faces of the community at large, whereas consultants are (or were) more in the background.

lachenstars

Maybe the relevant question is whether a Fog Whisperer wanted to be considered as a consultant or not. I'm not trying to be offended on anyone's behalf. It just rubs me the wrong way, and I question the efficacy of this newly public group, when a similar group of consultants let things like Skull Merchant and the Twins rework go to PTB. I say "let things go through" when in reality maybe they were just ignored.

Nazzzak

I guess they haven't included the FWs for the reason that you said:

"They have been put in an unenviable position to appear partly responsible for terribly thought-out changes like the Twins rework and trying to be a good public face for BHVR"

The devs clearing the air around these consults is good for FWs because it takes public pressure away from them. At the same time, this consultation program appears to be a paid position and, like with any job, lots of people simply aren't qualified for the position. I'll clarify that i do understand their grievances - having devs reach out to you and invite you to be part of a small group of people they trust to represent the company would feel amazing. To find out there's an even more exclusive group that are more than just a pretty face for the company would be disheartening. So I get it. But I can see why they kept the FWs separate.

Quizzy

I dont know about other ppl, but Ive always been under the impression that consultants playtest whatever ideas presented by the devs which makes it into the ptb. Then we as a community including the fog whisperers give our feedback when we play it.

So i fail to understand how certain Fog whisperers believe they are being ignored when it comes to giving feedback. When we all collectively come together and see something that is too much or not fun, we come here together on the forum and let our voices be heard; whether it aligns with the consultants feedback or not. End of the day, the devs are the ones who make the final decision and sometimes they listen, sometimes they dont. And this recent next patch, its been positive at the start from what ive seen with some room for improvement.

crogers271

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/415456/fog-whisperers-and-the-public-announcement-of-consultant-program

So I just wanted to make a post in support of the Fog Whisperers after hearing how SpookyLoopz has explained his perspective on publicly announcing a 'new' group of game testers with more influence on game balance changes

Was this on a live stream or something? Because I went looking for the video and couldn't find one.

BlackRose89

Personally I don't blame Spookyloopz and other fog whisperers for being upset over this announcement. Like most of us know they are a ambassador program but so many of them wants to see the game be better from a balance aspect and they deserve to be heard. After this announcement all it really done is shown the community and even fog whisperer how useless thier program really is. There no reason honestly to even have the FW program imo, it just free PR for the game and imo DBD doesn't deserve free PR. The devs should pay ppl to promote thier game and do more than just hand out small amount of dlc codes (which I know from watching Otz he has to beg for more codes since he always given so little to begin with) and few aura cells every month.

I honestly believe the devs themselves have mostly forgotten about the FW program as well. Here a question, when was the last time they added new fog whisperers to the program? I saw on Twitter weeks ago that they haven't added anyone new for over a year now. On top of that I can't remember the last time FW had some event either. I'm all honesty I think the program is undervalued and underoptimize. I for one think FWs could be treated alot better by the devs and givens more perks than what there is now.

The worst thing devs did was making this consultant group public knowledge because it really shows how useless and meanless the fog whisperer program really is. If they did away with the fog whisperer program tomorrow nothing would change, that how much impact this program has imo on the game and the community.

Hunkulese

Just another case of the general public having no clue about what goes into making games and just assuming that everyone is involved in everything. In no way does having a consultant program make the Fog Whisperers useless or meaningless. Fog Whisperers promote the game. That's it. There are plenty of Fog Whisperers who aren't great at the game and have awful takes about how to improve it. But that's fine.

Having a deep understanding of the game and being able to look at it from all angles is essential to being good consultant and not really important at all to being a good Fog Whisperer. They're two completely different things.