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Why Continue Playing Killer?
I am struggling, really struggling, to find a reason to want to keep playing as a killer. One thing this game holds high over Friday the 13th is that if I want to play as the killer then I absolutely will get to play as the killer, every single time. As far as I can tell this game is also dependant on players wanting to subject themselves to absurdity of survivors. If we don't them there's no game.
But I am pretty quickly burning out on what I see as absolute nonsense. This game is not a horror game and the only power killers hold is what survivors allow them.
The killers are not a threat.
When wounded survivors routinely hang out at the exit, tea-bagging, knowing that if you show up and strike them down they'll still escape, it's a sign of severe imbalance. Why on earth can a survivor escape crawling through the exit when 3/4 of their body hasn't crossed the magic line? Have we never seen, in a horror movie, a character believe they've escaped the clutches of a psychopath only to be grabbed by the ankle and dragged back in to the darkness?
There's more, everyone knows the irritations. Multiple generators being repaired just a minute in to the trial. Groups of body-blockers. Easily negated and ineffectual killer perks. Looping, excessive pallets, constantly being slowed, survivors running at Mach 5.
It's pretty much madness as far as I'm concerned.
Is this ever going to be addressed? Has this conversation been going on ad nauseam since the release? Is there any reason to think eventually a killer main, any killer, can even get to the point where trials are not so stressful?
Comments
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That’s why I stay on the low ranks. There is no reward for being on high ranks so why should I care
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Same here. I stay between rank 20 and 10, and it keeps being fun.
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I face that every day. What has kept me going is learning to play nurse, and wanting to prestige my killers so they can be covered in blood. Nurse is a good counter, and the only counter, to pallet looping and if played right, the only nonsense survivors can give you is their hate comments after the match, which 9.999/10 times is hilarious. As for grinding for levels, it keeps me occupied, and as long as I keep my ultimate objective just gaining bloodpoints, I don't get as frustrated if I don't get many kills, or any at all. As long as I got a good chunk of bloodpoints, I'm good. But wanting to just stop playing due to not having a good time is a feeling you'll get in this game no matter who you're playing, whether it's survivor due to it being easy, just running in a circle over and over, or as killer.
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The lack of balance has been an issue for years, to the point steam groups like "the killer alliance" and attempts to strike as a killer repeatedly happened on steam. Eventually people were banned for that behaviour, but it should demonstrate how passionate some people got with the issues.
Nothings really changed to be honest. The pallet vacuum removal was a good first step, but it was honestly just them reverting an issue they originally caused when they put it in the game in the first place to prevent killers from getting stuck in pallets as a band-aid solution. Even still, I find it hard to motivate myself to play killer and have been sticking to a suicidal survivor build. Let's hope two years of inaction was enough, and they'll improve things sooner or later. Otherwise, when I do play, it's largely just going to be survivor which is a shame.
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Because you can't expect them to be scared when they're decked out in crutches, have pallets and flashlights.You also can't expect people to have fear when the devs obviously want this game to be less horror and more competitive (even though rank means absolutely nothing).
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I stopped playing for awhile as I had played for the chase but got sick of the chase devolving into a game of "ring around the rosy".
With pallet vacuum gone now, I've gotten some of my joy in the game back. I only play to stream it now though. If I'm not streaming, I'm not playing this thing... not till more things get changed.
I find what helps me is if I approach it the experiencing KNOWING I'm at a disadvantage and embrace that. That makes those moments where I come out on top seem absurd which amuses me to no end.
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Several good points, good insight, some good advice.
I honestly have zero desire to play as a survivor and was really ecstatic when I saw that it wouldn't be required. I don't care to be on the side of the experience and absolutely hate the way they're either enabled, or encouraged, to play.
What a slap in the face to horror.
I'll stick around, try and improve my game, but if the next big step the game makes isn't reasonably focused on making the killers actual killers I'll walk away.
I backed Hide or Die and the beta will be available to me in August, hopefully they will have done a better job nailing the experience.
I wonder if the movies that inspired games like this played out like these trials, if the developers Would have even been fans of the genre.3 -
Also, I am struggling to understand why killers perks and addons seem to come at the cost of something else. Why are killers constantly penalized when they use any of these. Especially with addons and Hex perks.
Gain X but tremendously increase time to Y.
Do survivors perks and addons come with risk, or at an expense? I've looked at addons and I don't see it.1 -
@DasMurich said:
Also, I am struggling to understand why killers perks and addons seem to come at the cost of something else. Why are killers constantly penalized when they use any of these. Especially with addons and Hex perks.Gain X but tremendously increase time to Y.
Do survivors perks and addons come with risk, or at an expense? I've looked at addons and I don't see it.
Look up No Mither actually. That perk gives 3 perks at the expense of always being a 1 hit down.
And all insta-heal addins drastically reduce the number of charges medkits give you.
And I seem to remember there's a bulb that increases energy consumption
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Killers fun and I tend to get 30k bloodpoints per match. Never get near that with survivors. Even if I just played them to level up survivors faster, it would work.maybe killer just comes naturally to me and I don't have too many frustrating matches or 0 kill matches. Might just be because I've never played high ranks. 6 or 7 being my best.1
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My drive? Making as much of their effort as worthless as possible. Doesn't matter if it's a failed flashlight save or a failed body block, those kinds of things are what I play this game for. Nothing feels better than seeing a cocky survivor and knowing that they're not making it out of here, and you're the reason why. I want it to be frustrating for them.
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@DasMurich said:
Also, I am struggling to understand why killers perks and addons seem to come at the cost of something else. Why are killers constantly penalized when they use any of these. Especially with addons and Hex perks.Gain X but tremendously increase time to Y.
Do survivors perks and addons come with risk, or at an expense? I've looked at addons and I don't see it.
they do but they're so minor that it doesn't really matter
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Masochism is the best
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It’s funny how you figured all this out in only 40 hours lol. To your question though. It’s been like this for 2 years. We’ve hounded them over and over and over, spammed forums, showed evidence, and they just refuse to balance the game. They even said in a stream that they were afraid of survivor backlash. The keep the game in an indefinite survivor sided balance. They will talk about things they are working on or quality changes for the killers that are coming but don’t hold your breath, they’ve been saying that for 2 years. They take a millennia to to do something and when they do it’s such a baby tap that it doesn’t change anything, sometimes even making it worse. It also gets exponentially worse as you get higher rank. Take this all from someone that plays both sides at rank 1 and with almost 1700 hours in the game which is more than most.2
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I'll hang in there.
I've abandoned all hope in Friday. Fingers crossed that Hide or Die and Last Year do the horror genre justice.
Thing about Dead by Daylight is it works. It functions. It's pretty well polished and they've got a roster of interesting, original killers. Behaviour does deserve credit, especially considering the competition, it just needs that terror and tension in the game. It needs survivors thinking, "I should be doubly sure there's no monsters around when I attempt to unhook my friend or I will surely die!"
Time will tell I guess.3 -
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Im a console player so these new games everyone is waiting for is out of my reach but I still want them to succeed so Bhvr will actually start balancing the game or at least just finish optimising it for console too many random dc's. I dont even get lag stabbed in Dark Souls yet I can still randomly disconnect 4 feet from the exit gate.0
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It was only a matter of time. The Dead By Daylight team seemed to want to focus on the fear of the game. Mathieu Cote mentioned in a Dev stream that he was interested in “...seeing people at their best, and seeing people at their worst.”
Players are now always giving their best (Survivors AND Killers) which involves playing the right way each and every trial; Most likely, using the same perks, same jukes, same decisions. At the end of the day, it’s up to the majority of our players to decide if “victory”, is worth the “repetition” and possible stress.0 -
This game can be very frustrating for new killers, so to tip the scales in your favor you will need multiple teachables perks from different killer and try to get a solid build.
Anti gen rush perks are the priority:
Hex: Ruin (Hag perk), Overcharge (Doc perk), Pop Goes the weasel (Clown perk), Huntress Lullaby (Huntress perk)Spotter perks, to help you find them faster:
BBQ (Leatherface perk), Nurse calling ( Nurse perk)As a last resource you can equip Noed which is a non teachable perk and easy to get and Make your choice (Piggy) can be helpful with fast killers like Billy or Nurse.
The sad part:
There's one part of the game you can't counter and it's multiple DS (Decisive strikes). It's the most op perk survivors have and there's nothing you can do about multiple people using it other than equip Enduring (Billy) and still see how they go away. Many of us are waiting for a heavy nerf to this perk.1 -
Personally I just enjoy killer, even if I lose as long as I don't get continuously abused I usually dont tilt.
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Irisora said:
This game can be very frustrating for new killers, so to tip the scales in your favor you will need multiple teachables perks from different killer and try to get a solid build.
Anti gen rush perks are the priority:
Hex: Ruin (Hag perk), Overcharge (Doc perk), Pop Goes the weasel (Clown perk), Huntress Lullaby (Huntress perk)Spotter perks, to help you find them faster:
BBQ (Leatherface perk), Nurse calling ( Nurse perk)As a last resource you can equip Noed which is a non teachable perk and easy to get and Make your choice (Piggy) can be helpful with fast killers like Billy or Nurse.
The sad part:
There's one part of the game you can't counter and it's multiple DS (Decisive strikes). It's the most op perk survivors have and there's nothing you can do about multiple people using it other than equip Enduring (Billy) and still see how they go away. Many of us are waiting for a heavy nerf to this perk.
This is another issue IMO (and I don't know how relative it is for survivors), the perk options. You have a killer you want to play and other you're not really interested in. We're forced to invest in killers we might not be interested in developing just to get their perks and then hope they show up in the blood web of who we do want to use. We have to grind through a desperately unenjoyable experience to try and eventually reach a point where it's enjoyable. I fear it won't be enjoyable even then, only less frustrating.
Still holding out but if I don't see some significant buffing to killers before Hide or Die and Last Year roll out I just won't bother with DbD. Every 0/4 match I have juggling gen suppression with the 1 survivor I mange to hang on hook for 10 seconds is just getting too frustrating too quick.
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@DasMurich said:
We have to grind through a desperately unenjoyable experience to try and eventually reach a point where it's enjoyable. I fear it won't be enjoyable even then, only less frustrating.Yes i totally agree. Good killer perks are a must if you don't want to get abused by survivors, even with the top tier killers. Most "Powers" that killer have aren't very powerful in comparison to the advantages survivors have, and because of that we need the best perks we can get. And still you can get frustrated.
When it happens to me I get back to my nurse and when you realize that the only viable killers is the nurse and a few others you can tell that there is something wrong in the game. I can imagine how of a nightmare can be for new players wanting to play killer, not having a single needed perk, when us who have hundreds and thousand of hours get frustrated with the perks.
I can recall some main survivors saying "killers have powers and perks they don't need buffs" but we only have that, when survivors have perks, pallets, windows, second chances perks, the advantage of a 4v1 game and the blessed SWF... They need to think about that twice when saying things like that.
Most killers Need buffs, and there is still room for many changes that can be done to balance things a bit more and make the game more killer friendly. Like nerfing DS for example which is insanely op and it's needed asap.
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@DasMurich said:
So this is my solid 40 hours in perspective and I suppose this question is for the more seasoned killers -I am struggling, really struggling, to find a reason to want to keep playing as a killer. One thing this game holds high over Friday the 13th is that if I want to play as the killer then I absolutely will get to play as the killer, every single time. As far as I can tell this game is also dependant on players wanting to subject themselves to absurdity of survivors. If we don't them there's no game.
But I am pretty quickly burning out on what I see as absolute nonsense. This game is not a horror game and the only power killers hold is what survivors allow them.
The killers are not a threat.
When wounded survivors routinely hang out at the exit, tea-bagging, knowing that if you show up and strike them down they'll still escape, it's a sign of severe imbalance. Why on earth can a survivor escape crawling through the exit when 3/4 of their body hasn't crossed the magic line? Have we never seen, in a horror movie, a character believe they've escaped the clutches of a psychopath only to be grabbed by the ankle and dragged back in to the darkness?
There's more, everyone knows the irritations. Multiple generators being repaired just a minute in to the trial. Groups of body-blockers. Easily negated and ineffectual killer perks. Looping, excessive pallets, constantly being slowed, survivors running at Mach 5.
It's pretty much madness as far as I'm concerned.
Is this ever going to be addressed? Has this conversation been going on ad nauseam since the release? Is there any reason to think eventually a killer main, any killer, can even get to the point where trials are not so stressful?
The problem is that survivors have been telling you how to play the game. Just forget about the crybabies and employ the "unfair" tactics. Tunneling for example should ALWAYS be done if it is possible, there is no reason not to. Camping is a very strong tool too if survivors are altruistic, just dont do it when they sit at gens most of the time.
And then there is slugging, it can be really effective but it is really hard to pull offAnd btw if several survivors join the lobby at the same time, then they are SWF and you bette rmake sure to dodge that lobby
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@DasMurich said:
So this is my solid 40 hours in perspective and I suppose this question is for the more seasoned killers -I am struggling, really struggling, to find a reason to want to keep playing as a killer. One thing this game holds high over Friday the 13th is that if I want to play as the killer then I absolutely will get to play as the killer, every single time. As far as I can tell this game is also dependant on players wanting to subject themselves to absurdity of survivors. If we don't them there's no game.
But I am pretty quickly burning out on what I see as absolute nonsense. This game is not a horror game and the only power killers hold is what survivors allow them.
The killers are not a threat.
When wounded survivors routinely hang out at the exit, tea-bagging, knowing that if you show up and strike them down they'll still escape, it's a sign of severe imbalance. Why on earth can a survivor escape crawling through the exit when 3/4 of their body hasn't crossed the magic line? Have we never seen, in a horror movie, a character believe they've escaped the clutches of a psychopath only to be grabbed by the ankle and dragged back in to the darkness?
There's more, everyone knows the irritations. Multiple generators being repaired just a minute in to the trial. Groups of body-blockers. Easily negated and ineffectual killer perks. Looping, excessive pallets, constantly being slowed, survivors running at Mach 5.
It's pretty much madness as far as I'm concerned.
Is this ever going to be addressed? Has this conversation been going on ad nauseam since the release? Is there any reason to think eventually a killer main, any killer, can even get to the point where trials are not so stressful?
Playing killer high rank is cancer and as you may not want to hear it or keep playing killer you should know that unless you want to take on the hardest thing in this game regularly and subject yourself to the frustrations that come with the imbalance's of the game you shouldn't play killer. Every single killer game i go in at rank 1 I know i could have a very hard time. B/c of the map, b/c of flashlights, BNP's, Decisive strike, too many pallets generating near good loops, Your ruin breaking 15 seconds into the game. Then comes to straight up toxicity on the survivors part. Nobody likes being teabagged or have flashlights clicked at them. The reason why you play killer high rank is the reward from it.
When you get dstriked 4 times in the game and still get 4 kills.
When you outplay some survivor and they walk right into you to get face planted into the ground.
When you get that cross map chainsaw b/c you knew where they were going.
When survivors juke right back into your thrown hatchet from 20 meters away.
LUL, When you tombstone that last ######### sitting and teabagging at the gate, or that kid that's been trying for flashlight saves all game.
The challenge is well rewarded when you do well by how you feel.OR you could just play nurse and win. Once you learn how to use her you don't need to be good, she takes very little skill and you'll get kills no matter what as long as your at least a little competent in learning basic survivor juking techniques.
People will argue this and say Nurse takes skill to play, They are wrong, Nurse has a high skill-cap to learn, once you have that muscle memory then you don't need anything else and games become easy.I play Billy, Huntress, Micheal and Pig high rank. Yes it's cancer and "madness" like you said but the reward feels good when you do well with the odds stacked against you.
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I might have to take you up on that advice even though Nurse isn't exactly who I want to use.
As far as using Hex: Ruin, being newer, I'm torn between everyone saying it's A. Essential, and B. It frequently gets destroyed immediately.
So lame.
First game this morning the 4th generator was repaired as I hooked my first survivor. It's beyond absurd.
The one survivor I had a shot at taking out was limping, and right before I struck him, he sprint burst through the exit.
So maybe Nurse would have come in handy there.
The unhooking though, FFS, this game - in regard to "killers" - it's a f*ing joke. Hit a survivor attempting an unhook, they get the one down before you finishing wiping off your stupid weapon because that's important to killers I guess. You can't take them down, Borrowed Time? The one just freed insta-heals, they both Sprint Burst off. Then you get to listen to their "camper" bullshit at the end of the match.
*I just did a lot of deleting. I'll spare everyone from the mega rant about what horror is supposed to be. These devs are clueless.Post edited by DasMurich on3 -
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I was in the same boat as you just a few weeks ago. Getting absolutely raped by survivors in nearly every game I was playing. I was hovering at rank 10-11. I had such anxiety about playing Killer. I'm just gonna get teabagged and looped. They're just gonna unhook the SECOND I turn my back to kick that generator. Oh, I finally caught my obsession after chasing them around for a good three minutes! Ooops, Decisive Strike. Hahaha, try again, loser. It was maddening. Ridiculous. How is this a balanced game?
Then I realized, if you just expect to lose, expect to get bullied, you start to play with a different perspective. Yes, you're Michael Myers. Literally evil incarnate. Capable of crushing a man's head with his bare hands, surely these little survivors will be no match! But this is a very different world than the films, than what slasher movies are. This is an online video game and unfortunately, people are going to be toxic in every game you play. Try to have fun! At the end of the day, if it's not fun then don't play it. I suspect you keep with it because you do love the game and you really just want to be a bad ass serial killer that you know you should be. I feel the exact same way.
I really love this game. I'm only 100 hours in and honestly, I can't get the same satisfaction from any other game than when I mercilessly slaughter all my victims after they teabagged and pallet looped me the entire match. Hands shaking, adrenaline on full power, you won! God, it's so satisfying. Don't give it up. You can always get better. And a better you is a goddamn nightmare for them.
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Nurse.
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Most of my 380 hours have been spent playing Killer. I've made it to Rank 1, and will never go back there unless they add actual rewards for it. There is no fun to be had for me at the high ranks.
Around Rank 10 though is where the fun is really at. You get great games, with a minimum of toxicity. Most Survivors who play the meta will continue to Rank 1 to play against tryhard Killers and the ones so experienced they can play in their sleep. Deranked Survivors tend to cluster around 20-18 so they can have easy matches because they can't compete at the higher Ranks, or else they just feel so inadequate they have to beat up on new Killers.
Rank 10 though, you get a mix of everything, with a lot of Survivors who are also staying at those Ranks because of the fun gameplay. Rank reset time sucks, but I generally wait a couple days before playing Killer which works out nicely.
Once you can get above Rank 16/17, the games actually become a lot more fun. You lose most of the deranked bullies and inexperienced new players, and get good Survivors who want to have fun as well. Makes for quite enjoyable gameplay and a lot of fun all around.
If you don't take the game too seriously, and just play it for fun, it makes it a lot better. Getting bitter about RNG, toxicity and all the balance issues does nothing but turn the game into a chore. Relax, chill and just enjoy yourself instead and you'll find yourself coming back to the game constantly.
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I think I've finally started hitting my stride using the Doctor.
I'm running him with Overwhelming Presence, Overcharge, Distressing, and then switching between Ruin and Pop Goes The Weasel.
Ruin, which I've finally gotten, it's a mixed one. Either it persists all match and it's amazing or it gets destroyed right away.
I use his "Calm" addons to increase the terror radius further which I find really, really helpful since it helps so much in revealing survivors' positions.
Anyways, I'll keep playing I think.0 -
If you wouldn’t mind telling me; What’re the rewards YOU reap at low ranks? (I like to give low rank survivors a thrilling/scary experience WITHOUT “putting out” any one survivor)LRGamer said:That’s why I stay on the low ranks. There is no reward for being on high ranks so why should I care
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Personally I play at rank one every season now. Rank 12-8 are a major pain in the ass but people at rank one are normally chill. Some maps upset me when I load into them like Disturbed ward and Haddonfield but I can generally manage. The only thing that really tilts me is that I run full stall perks and the game still gets done in less than 5 minutes if the survivors know how to play. I just take a break after that for a few minutes, play a few rounds of pig and keep on killing with Clown and Trapper after that.
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@TheTimeMachine said:
LRGamer said:That’s why I stay on the low ranks. There is no reward for being on high ranks so why should I care
If you wouldn’t mind telling me; What’re the rewards YOU reap at low ranks? (I like to give low rank survivors a thrilling/scary experience WITHOUT “putting out” any one survivor)
Oh I actually meant Rank 20-10
I just don’t want all that Purple Flashlight,
Gen Rushing,
4 Decisive Strike,
Self Care,
Sprint Burst/Dead Hard, Ochido like
Experience0 -
I just find it satisfying to whack people. I'm a simple guy.
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Killer is in this weird spot where it's just addictive enough to keep you playing, but also about equally frustrating. What you have in the end is a feeling akin to mild addiction - ie. when you get your fix you're happy initially, but when the effects start to wear off you remember how terrible it truly is.
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Honestly I make it a role-play when I play killer. I pretend I’m the school playground watchman. Which means that if the survivors make a mistake I chase them hit them on the head once (like if the kids are bad on the playground you tell them something) and if they make a 2nd mistake well it’s to the hook we go (that would be the principals office)0
