The Pig RBT Rework Idea
The Pig's RBT is lackluster. Plain and simple. Not great, but not bad, just kind of...in the middle. Boring. It should have a sense of choice and stress just like in the movies. I have an idea that might spice things up a little, keep the pressure on, make it interesting. Feel welcome to speak your mind on it.
The Reverse Bear Trap
Start the trial with 4 Reverse Bear Traps
- Traps may be put on survivors in the Dying state.
- If the Trap triggers, the Survivor will be instantly sacrificed.
- The Trap will trigger once their timers expire, or if a survivor attempts to escape the trial.
- Trapped Survivors suffer a 10% action speed penalty.
- Trapped Survivors are linked to one other Survivor while a Trap is on them.
- The Trap timer is 180 seconds by default.
- The Trap timer will begin to count down when a Generator is completed.
- The Trap timer will pause if the linked Survivor is in a chase, Dying, or Hooked.
The trapped Survivor and linked Survivor's auras are revealed to eachother.
The linked Survivor must work to find the key for the trapped Survivor by searching Jigsaw Boxes.
Once the linked Survivor finds the key, they can interact with the trapped Survivor and take off the Reverse Bear Trap.
If the linked Survivor dies, the Trap is deactivated and automatically removed from the trapped Survivor.
If the linked Survivor lets the trapped Survivor die to the Trap, they will suffer the exposed status effect for the rest of the trial.
NOTE: Trapped Survivors will be indicated on their portrait to all players, linked Survivors will be indicated on their portrait to only the other Survivors, not to the killer.
The Jigsaw Boxes
- 4 Jigsaw Boxes will spawn in the trial by default.
- The Jigsaw Boxes take 15 seconds to complete.
- Only linked Survivors can interact with Jigsaw Boxes.
The Jigsaw Box Algorithm
Jigsaw Boxes have a new algorithm for finding the key:
- A = amount of survivors sacrificed or killed.
- B = amount of boxes previously searched.
- C = chance of finding the key (in percent).
C% = 20 + ((A * 10)+(B * 20))
NOTE: No matter what, the final Jigsaw Box will have a 100% chance of finding the key, trumping the algorithm.
For example, if you have a RBT on your head with all survivors alive and it's the first box your searching, you have a 20% chance of finding the key. Then, someone gets killed, and you're searching your second box as well. There is now a 50% chance, so on and so forth.
Comments
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1) What happens if the linked Survivor dies?
2) Still not on board with the percentage thing for Jigsaw Boxes, and especially not with those numbers. Almost 70% chance of the key being in the last box is ridiculous. Also, consider what would happen with Amanda's Letter if there were only two boxes, and no matter which one you chose, you only had a 5% chance of getting the trap off.0 -
I like the 10% penalty, I came up with something similar. Your idea seems too easy to kill people with the traps, you force people without traps to search boxes therefore tunneling someone searching a box means the Srv with a trap dies when the next Gen pops because they can't search for the key themselves. And if they can search for the key themselves then you have 2 people searching for the key at all times and that makes the trap almost worthless since they aren't wasting enough time.
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What is it with people wanting RBT buffs? They are fine just the way they are. They are meant to slow down the game by giving survivors another objective. They are NOT meant to kill.
Bad killers asking for handouts. Learn 2 play. Come at me.
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@thesuicidefox said:
What is it with people wanting RBT buffs? They are fine just the way they are. They are meant to slow down the game by giving survivors another objective. They are NOT meant to kill.Bad killers asking for handouts. Learn 2 play. Come at me.
Nah, she could definitely use a few buffs. Not these buffs, but some buffs.
Still haven't explained what makes RSN2 + Timer + Crate/Sketch a worse situation for a Survivor than just the latter two with the gen popping while on the hook.
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@HatCreature said:
I like the 10% penalty, I came up with something similar. Your idea seems too easy to kill people with the traps, you force people without traps to search boxes therefore tunneling someone searching a box means the Srv with a trap dies when the next Gen pops because they can't search for the key themselves. And if they can search for the key themselves then you have 2 people searching for the key at all times and that makes the trap almost worthless since they aren't wasting enough time.- If you would care to read, when the linked Survivor is being chased, the timer is paused.
- Only the linked Survivor can search boxes.
- The killer cannot see who is the linked Survivor, only the Survivors can.
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@TAG said:
1) What happens if the linked Survivor dies?
2) Still not on board with the percentage thing for Jigsaw Boxes, and especially not with those numbers. Almost 70% chance of the key being in the last box is ridiculous. Also, consider what would happen with Amanda's Letter if there were only two boxes, and no matter which one you chose, you only had a 5% chance of getting the trap off.- Forgot about that. I'd just say the trap is deactivated.
- If you would care to read,
@AntiJelly said:
No matter what, the final Jigsaw Box will have a 100% chance of finding the key, trumping the algorithm.
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@thesuicidefox said:
What is it with people wanting RBT buffs? They are fine just the way they are. They are meant to slow down the game by giving survivors another objective. They are NOT meant to kill.Bad killers asking for handouts. Learn 2 play. Come at me.
Right. Bad killers asking for handouts. The "objective" that the Pig provides with the RBTs is so miniscule, it has hardly any effect on the game at all. I'm not making this to KILL more people, I'm making it so it wastes more people's time. Something about the way you responded makes me think you didn't read the entire post.
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@AntiJelly said:
@thesuicidefox said:
What is it with people wanting RBT buffs? They are fine just the way they are. They are meant to slow down the game by giving survivors another objective. They are NOT meant to kill.Bad killers asking for handouts. Learn 2 play. Come at me.
Right. Bad killers asking for handouts. The "objective" that the Pig provides with the RBTs is so miniscule, it has hardly any effect on the game at all. I'm not making this to KILL more people, I'm making it so it wastes more people's time. Something about the way you responded makes me think you didn't read the entire post.
It wastes time, and is based on RNG. Sometimes that can mean 30 seconds, sometimes that can mean a full 2 minutes. If you want more time wasted then use add-ons. Or pressure the guy the with trap and at least push them away from boxes. I can't tell you how many times I see a Pig just spam traps then hook you right next to a box and NEVER come back to pressure you. Know what I do? I space out my traps. I don't use the first one until either a gen or my Ruin pops, unless it's an obsession. Then I wait for the next gen to pop before using another trap. I save one for end game so I can proc my Blood Warden. If you space them out and use them at the right time they can help you waste time. Again, it's RNG, so the benefit you get varies. But for every time someone gets their trap off at the first box I guarantee there is someone that has to search at least 3 boxes to get their trap off. But you never realize this because you are too focused on the guy that got it off immediately.
Plus Pig's ambush already got a buff on PTB. RBT doesn't need a buff. RBT is just fine the way it is. Stop asking for buffs. It's sad.
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@thesuicidefox said:
@AntiJelly said:
@thesuicidefox said:
What is it with people wanting RBT buffs? They are fine just the way they are. They are meant to slow down the game by giving survivors another objective. They are NOT meant to kill.Bad killers asking for handouts. Learn 2 play. Come at me.
Right. Bad killers asking for handouts. The "objective" that the Pig provides with the RBTs is so miniscule, it has hardly any effect on the game at all. I'm not making this to KILL more people, I'm making it so it wastes more people's time. Something about the way you responded makes me think you didn't read the entire post.
It wastes time, and is based on RNG. Sometimes that can mean 30 seconds, sometimes that can mean a full 2 minutes. If you want more time wasted then use add-ons. Or pressure the guy the with trap and at least push them away from boxes. I can't tell you how many times I see a Pig just spam traps then hook you right next to a box and NEVER come back to pressure you. Know what I do? I space out my traps. I don't use the first one until either a gen or my Ruin pops, unless it's an obsession. Then I wait for the next gen to pop before using another trap. I save one for end game so I can proc my Blood Warden. If you space them out and use them at the right time they can help you waste time. Again, it's RNG, so the benefit you get varies. But for every time someone gets their trap off at the first box I guarantee there is someone that has to search at least 3 boxes to get their trap off. But you never realize this because you are too focused on the guy that got it off immediately.
Plus Pig's ambush already got a buff on PTB. RBT doesn't need a buff. RBT is just fine the way it is. Stop asking for buffs. It's sad.
Just saying Pig is niche and boring, and in desperate need of something new.
i.e. something actually interesting.Post edited by AntiJelly on0 -
I think the traps are weak for the limited amount of traps you have.
You have 4, for the complete trial, only useable on survs who might die on a hook 10-90 seconds later, only having noticeable weak effects when used with addons, with most addons focusing on those very limited traps.
They should be stronger, they should be dangerous to survivors.
Most survivor ignore them and rush their gens until the beeping starts.
They should habe some basic debuffs that stack with whatever the addons add.0 -
@AntiJelly said:
@TAG said:
1) What happens if the linked Survivor dies?
2) Still not on board with the percentage thing for Jigsaw Boxes, and especially not with those numbers. Almost 70% chance of the key being in the last box is ridiculous. Also, consider what would happen with Amanda's Letter if there were only two boxes, and no matter which one you chose, you only had a 5% chance of getting the trap off.- Forgot about that. I'd just say the trap is deactivated.
- If you would care to read,
@AntiJelly said:
No matter what, the final Jigsaw Box will have a 100% chance of finding the key, trumping the algorithm.
You misunderstand what I say. I'm saying that between the 4 boxes, with the numbers that you have posted, there is almost a 70% chance that you have to search all four boxes to find the key. That is ridiculously in favor of the Killer and would make it too easy to force the trap snaps way too consistently.
@thesuicidefox said:
@AntiJelly said:
@thesuicidefox said:
What is it with people wanting RBT buffs? They are fine just the way they are. They are meant to slow down the game by giving survivors another objective. They are NOT meant to kill.Bad killers asking for handouts. Learn 2 play. Come at me.
Right. Bad killers asking for handouts. The "objective" that the Pig provides with the RBTs is so miniscule, it has hardly any effect on the game at all. I'm not making this to KILL more people, I'm making it so it wastes more people's time. Something about the way you responded makes me think you didn't read the entire post.
It wastes time, and is based on RNG. Sometimes that can mean 30 seconds, sometimes that can mean a full 2 minutes. If you want more time wasted then use add-ons. Or pressure the guy the with trap and at least push them away from boxes. I can't tell you how many times I see a Pig just spam traps then hook you right next to a box and NEVER come back to pressure you. Know what I do? I space out my traps. I don't use the first one until either a gen or my Ruin pops, unless it's an obsession. Then I wait for the next gen to pop before using another trap. I save one for end game so I can proc my Blood Warden. If you space them out and use them at the right time they can help you waste time. Again, it's RNG, so the benefit you get varies. But for every time someone gets their trap off at the first box I guarantee there is someone that has to search at least 3 boxes to get their trap off. But you never realize this because you are too focused on the guy that got it off immediately.
Plus Pig's ambush already got a buff on PTB. RBT doesn't need a buff. RBT is just fine the way it is. Stop asking for buffs. It's sad.
The low end of the RNG is really low and super feel-bad for the Killer. The range in RNG results is simply too wide. That needs to be adjusted in some manner. Not to the extent that OP is saying, but it does.
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@AntiJelly said:
@HatCreature said:
I like the 10% penalty, I came up with something similar. Your idea seems too easy to kill people with the traps, you force people without traps to search boxes therefore tunneling someone searching a box means the Srv with a trap dies when the next Gen pops because they can't search for the key themselves. And if they can search for the key themselves then you have 2 people searching for the key at all times and that makes the trap almost worthless since they aren't wasting enough time.- If you would care to read, when the linked Survivor is being chased, the timer is paused.
- Only the linked Survivor can search boxes.
- The killer cannot see who is the linked Survivor, only the Survivors can.
I did read it and I'm still right. If someone has a RBT on their head and you somehow accidentally kill the person they are linked to they're screwed and automatically dead because they can't boxes themselves.
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The whole exposed thing sounds good on paper but in actuality won't be that strong. With this change there is still only one person looking through the boxes at a time. The other changes sound solid maybe borderline op.0
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@thesuicidefox said:
What is it with people wanting RBT buffs? They are fine just the way they are. They are meant to slow down the game by giving survivors another objective. They are NOT meant to kill.Bad killers asking for handouts. Learn 2 play. Come at me.
There seems to be an ironic philosophy in DbD that the killer is not meant to kill, only prolong the game to farm score and then have everyone escape.
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@Tucking_Friggered said:
@thesuicidefox said:
What is it with people wanting RBT buffs? They are fine just the way they are. They are meant to slow down the game by giving survivors another objective. They are NOT meant to kill.Bad killers asking for handouts. Learn 2 play. Come at me.
There seems to be an ironic philosophy in DbD that the killer is not meant to kill, only prolong the game to farm score and then have everyone escape.
That was a serious post? I thought that was sarcasm, wow that's screwed up.
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@AntiJelly said:
Jigsaw Boxes have an exponential algorithm for the chance of finding the key. The chance starts at 5%, then 10%, then 20%, 40%, and so on.
NOTE: No matter what, the final Jigsaw Box will have a 100% chance of finding the key, trumping the algorithm.So there is vaguely a chance of 65% that the surv has to search 4 or more boxes? Did you think about these numbers and consider them balanced?
What happens if the linked survivor isn't in a chase but downed or hooked?
Do you consider a hatch escape also as "escaping the trial" or do you only refer to exit gates?
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The only change I would make to RBTs is the timer starting when you put the trap, not when a generator is done.
If you use Ruin is a bit pointless to put the RBTs until the totem is cleansed...0 -
Trapped Survivors suffer a 10% action speed penalty. Trapped Survivors are linked to one other Survivor while a Trap is on them. The Trap timer is 180 seconds by default. The Trap timer will pause if the linked Survivor is in a chase. The trapped Survivor and linked Survivor's auras are revealed to eachother. The linked Survivor must work to find the key for the trapped Survivor by searching Jigsaw Boxes. Once the linked Survivor finds the key, they can interact with the trapped Survivor and take off the Reverse Bear Trap. If the linked Survivor dies, the Trap is deactivated and automatically removed from the trapped Survivor. If the linked Survivor lets the trapped Survivor die to the Trap, they will suffer the exposed status effect for the rest of the trial. NOTE: Trapped Survivors will be indicated on their portrait to all players, linked Survivors will be indicated on their portrait to only the other Survivors, not to the killer.
This is a rly interesting idea.
The survivors must work together or they die.
But i think many survivors dont like this and SWF will broke this instant.
But i like the idea.THE JIGSAW BOXES 4 Jigsaw Boxes will spawn in the trial by default. The Jigsaw Boxes take 15 seconds to complete. Only linked Survivors can interact with Jigsaw Boxes. Jigsaw Boxes have an exponential algorithm for the chance of finding the key. The chance starts at 5%, then 10%, then 20%, 40%, and so on. NOTE: No matter what, the final Jigsaw Box will have a 100% chance of finding the key, trumping the algorithm.
180 second trap time and a new algorithm.
I think a PTB test phase would be great to test this numbers.
Numbers are rly important for balance.PS: This is my rework:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/41229/my-complete-pig-buff-rework-devs-you-can-use-this-if-you-want0 -
@TAG @HatCreature @NoShinyPony
I've created a new algorithm and written in some more specifics. Tell me what you think!0 -
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@thesuicidefox said:
What is it with people wanting RBT buffs? They are fine just the way they are. They are meant to slow down the game by giving survivors another objective. They are NOT meant to kill.Bad killers asking for handouts. Learn 2 play. Come at me.
There seems to be an ironic philosophy in DbD that the killer is not meant to kill, only prolong the game to farm score and then have everyone escape.
Just like there seems to be the idea that killers should get free kills for doing essentially nothing. You chase a dude and put a trap on his head. Yep you surely deserve the kill there.
Like I said, learn 2 play.
@Myerinodudd said:
But hillbily can end the game with in 2 minutes.Nurse can end the game in 3 minutes.Huntress can end the game in 2 minutes with one shot addons.So these ones are allright but pig doesn't need buff you guys are joke.Her ambush attack is joke for survivors.They teabag when you do it.RBT isn't scary factor for survivors.They are just like Hmmm okay i should go this highlighted box, oh yes i escaped first try ez gg now i can rush gens.Also pig gonna get TR nerf.They killed whispers for her.Any killer could end the game quickly if they slug everyone. Also for every survivor that gets the trap off on the first box I guarantee there is one that has to search all 4 boxes. Killers never pay attention to this though, they only notice when someone gets the trap off. When you play survivor you'd notice the times where someone has a trap on for almost the entire time a lot more.
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@thesuicidefox said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@thesuicidefox said:
What is it with people wanting RBT buffs? They are fine just the way they are. They are meant to slow down the game by giving survivors another objective. They are NOT meant to kill.Bad killers asking for handouts. Learn 2 play. Come at me.
There seems to be an ironic philosophy in DbD that the killer is not meant to kill, only prolong the game to farm score and then have everyone escape.
Just like there seems to be the idea that killers should get free kills for doing essentially nothing. You chase a dude and put a trap on his head. Yep you surely deserve the kill there.
Like I said, learn 2 play.
Pig is one of the handful of killers that isn't that fun to play as or against. I've only made this post to suggest alternatives to a bland power. Just writing down my ideas. Nothing here has anything to do with "I CAN'T GET KILLS WITH PIG SHE SUCKS", it's because her power is boring. That's it. It's boring. I like killers that you can have fun and get creative with, i.e. Wraith, Myers, Spirit, Freddy, and a little bit of Trapper. I just want another killer that has neato mechanics instead of just a silly, boring, unfun killer. I do like to hear feedback, but saying that I'm wrong and "git gud" isn't very constructive.
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@AntiJelly said:
@TAG @HatCreature @NoShinyPony
I've created a new algorithm and written in some more specifics. Tell me what you think!Ok, I don't know if it was edited or if I did not, in fact, read it the first time lol but I just saw the part about the linked Survivor dying and the trap being taken off. Anyway, the new algorithm looks interesting, so for the more Survivors who are dead the more chance they have at finding the key before the last box. So if you use all 4 traps before anyone dies then they all have a 20% for each box unless they search the last one which is 100% I think it should just be this way all the time and not rely on dead people, just 20% each box.
I personally still don't like this idea though. The timer stops when the linked person is Dying, hooked, or in a chase, like normal but it's not with the person wearing the RBT. So you could stop someone's timer without knowing it making your trap useless without any knowledge. Also the person with the RBT now has more opportunity to do Gens, yeah they have to rely on someone else to save them but if that person dies or is being chased, they're safe, no harm no foul, happy day, so thankful that other guy died I can continue with my life.
If this was an add-on and if the linked person died, that RBT activates and kills them, that would work. Pig won't know who is linked, who can save the people wearing traps, and would never have to tunnel someone wearing a trap. This changes her playstyle to find who is the person who can save this other guy, give her only 1 or 2 traps instead of 4. If the linked person finds the key then awesome, if they don't well that other person dies, if the linked person dies they both die. This is simpler and it's an add-on instead of base allowing more choices in how to play her.
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@AntiJelly said:
Pig is one of the handful of killers that isn't that fun to play as or against. I've only made this post to suggest alternatives to a bland power.
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@thesuicidefox said:
@AntiJelly said:
Pig is one of the handful of killers that isn't that fun to play as or against. I've only made this post to suggest alternatives to a bland power.As for you. Thank you so much for contributing to this thread.
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I think I'm the wrong person to ask about the numbers for a percentage-based system because I'm not a fan of that system in general.AntiJelly said:@TAG @HatCreature @NoShinyPony
I've created a new algorithm and written in some more specifics. Tell me what you think!
Any one of the ideas among the following I'd be on board with:
1) Rules Set No. 2 base kit
2) First box is auto-fail; upon searching the first box, the key is randomly placed into one of the three remaining boxes
3) Timer auto-starts as soon as the the trap is placed instead of as soon as a gen is finished (with the timer pausing while being chased, downed, or hooked, ofc).0 -
I think I'm the wrong person to ask about the numbers for a percentage-based system because I'm not a fan of that system in general.AntiJelly said:@TAG @HatCreature @NoShinyPony
I've created a new algorithm and written in some more specifics. Tell me what you think!
I'd be on board with any one of the following ideas:
1) Rules Set No. 2 base kit
2) First box is auto-fail; upon searching the first box, the key is randomly placed into one of the three remaining boxes
3) Timer auto-starts as soon as the the trap is placed instead of as soon as a gen is finished (with the timer pausing while being chased, downed, or hooked, ofc).0 -
@thesuicidefox said:
What is it with people wanting RBT buffs? They are fine just the way they are. They are meant to slow down the game by giving survivors another objective. They are NOT meant to kill.Bad killers asking for handouts. Learn 2 play. Come at me.
not when survivor can get away of it on the first try kappa
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