Did base kit removal of Hag traps made her weaker?
I think SWF groups will have even better edge and they allready had if they just play aggresively againts her to destroy and mess with her traps that she can't even set up well.
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can agree. Because before the changes, you would equip franklins against a flashlight squat and they have nothing to counter your traps that easily now everyone has the chance
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Overall, I'm honestly not sure. It reduced the variance in her power level quite a bit though. Even just one flashlight against her felt devestating to the point where Franklin's was a must-run.
Like, Survivors have a reliable way to dismantle her web now, but it's slower than it was with a flashlight and can't be done mid-chase. I just wish there was a noise on the Hag's PoV when a trap is wiped away, because currently there's no indicator.
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The removal of flashlight was helpful for Hag but now not-so-good survivors can removal her traps without taking any risk. However, these types of survivors will always do a blunder against Hag and making one tiny blunder against her can cost you the match. So, I would say it is not that big of a deal but still a nerf. Otherwise this change hasn't affect Hag that much. Good survivors won't do the new removal against her traps, they will still do a spin to trigger them without beeing in danger while still harassing her active.
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It was a big nerf.
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I dont think it changed her very much in terms of viablity, rather it just made her much more consistent.
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I don't really think it was a nerf but it wasn't a buff either, the reason I say it's not a nerf because I could literally disarm a whole section of traps around a hook, gen, totem etc.. in like 1 sec with no repercussions, if I followed hag in chase with another survivor back then I could disarm every trap she set and if multiple flashlights were in play you were an m1 killer even with Franklin's because survivors could burn traps for eachother to get their items back fast so even trapping them didn't work, now anyone can disarm a trap but there's a animation and you have to individually take out traps so more time is wasted in exchange , so it's kinda a offset effect in my personal opinion
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It was definetly a nerf, so you had option to remove it without triggering, like next to a hooked survivors.
But most traps you can just abuse holding S and she won't get a hit on you from triggering the trap unless she has specific addons.
Hag has only two modes, either you stomp the survivors, because they don't know what to do, or you going to have really bad experience.1 -
I mean, it's not even a question. Hag gets ruined, far harder than any other killer, from 1 survivor interrupting her game plan. 1 survivor knows when/where/how to trip her traps, she loses the whole game. And I got tired of feeling that way, feeling that the killer was only good against bad survivors, so I quit maining her about 2 years ago. Usually people expect paragraphs of examples and proof of things like this, but there's honestly not much to talk about. You can see it. Her teleport isn't even instant except on scroll wheel which not everybody can do or wants to do. So bar scroll wheel, even in the best possible scenario you have to keep running a few seconds after in order to hit the survivor, in which case they usually get to a pallet or window.
Small tangent but worth the perspective: I disagree with Tru3 on very few things, but this killer is one I vehemently disagree with him on. "You just place traps down, get a hook, and then win! Hag is so simple/easy!" Says the guy who knows a majority of killer wins are from facing bad survivors, who knows getting a single hook can be hard vs good survivors, and who almost always faces bad survivors on Hag WITH Rusty Shackles. Rusty Shackles is the least skillful way to play Hag, because you don't have to play with camera swings in mind, and the survivors physically can't tell when a trap has been tripped. For every match that has been a smashing success with this killer, there's 10 others where the player was basically unable to play it.
When weighing the pros and cons of losing flashlight disabling but gaining rubbing the traps away, I don't know which is worse. The most skillful and riskiest way to counter Hag is through tripping her traps on purpose, because although it's very easy to avoid that hit, at least there's risk there of getting hit, a snowball's chance in Hell of snowballing. With flashlights which highlighted her traps as well as disarmed them, I don't know how Hags ever won against that. I'd have lobby dodged. But with running away her traps, it's still a no-skill non-interaction with the killer, with the only downside being it takes a few seconds. Guess what? With tripping which is usually more skillful, you can just trip 5-7 of her traps in about the same amount of time, assuming she set them all up on hook. How then is that strategy "skilless" for her and helps her win when she just loses all her traps in seconds and the person still gets unhooked? Because that's the complaint I always hear. Hags who know what they're doing don't do that. So you can tell most criticism levied against her is from low skill survivors.
Maybe I'll try using her trap range reduction add-ons, or her 117.5% add-ons, and see if that changes my perspective at all. But otherwise I don't know what to do with this killer. I don't know why she's considered A/S tier when, again, 1 survivor who knows her counter: lose the whole game!
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They still have the spin exploit? That's sad. That singlehandedly kills her.
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And it's the strangest thing. So many survivors in this game are straight-up bad. But every time I've hopped on Hag, every single team knows her counterplay. They call her S tier because of those 1% of matches where she got really lucky and got a 4-man slug or something. From my experience, she's like bottom 3 killers, easily. How're you gonna get anything rolling with the killer if someone's just tripping your traps the whole time? Just hope that their brain turns off?
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I believe the ever shifting landscape of beauty standards is primarily responsible for her low pick rate. Gone are the days that a rotten corpse would be considered the apex of beauty.
#HagStandards
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I don' t think the flashlight change is what hurt hag.
There was another change where they increase the trigger range of her traps and her trigger range addons got changed. I believe unless you run double trigger range addons, any survivor who runs away from the trap upon triggering it is safe from Hag lunge out of teleport.
And the biggest threat to Hag traps was always survivors triggering them when she couldn't respond and it became even safer to do so.
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Year, it's so sad. I like Hag because you have a complete different gameplay with her but once you have this one survivor in your lobby Hag becomes so useless :/ Iirc you need the green and yellow smaller trigger range Addons so survivors can no longer spin the trap but then your traps become useless on a different level. I really wish the developers would give her a bigger lunge attack after she teleports, so survivors can no longer do it but I guess this will never happen. According to the Stats she is a strong killer but only because many survivors don't know how to play against her, you have this one survivor that does a tiny mistake that cost the team the match, or you're a 10.000h Hagmain who uses magic to play around it.
Her biggest issue is so akward. Many players know about it but it's not a hot topic because only a handful of players play her. If Wesker had a similar issue everyone would write topics about it and they would compel the developers to fix it but Hag ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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It was probably a nerf overall but imo it was something that needed to be done. Flashlights vs Hag used to be very strong and in some cases were too good at removing traps quickly, but at the same time if there were no flashlights in a group then traps were too difficult to counter since there was no other way to remove a trap in a key location without setting it off.
In general, I do not really feel that killer counterplay should be tied to items, the degree to which a killer's power can be countered should not be dependent upon the items survivors bring into a match when there's no guarantee anyone will bring that item. (Killer-specific items like turrets and EMPs are fine because they are always available in matches vs. that killer.)
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i agree with tru3ta1ent. Hag is one of lowest skill-floor killers in the game. i don't think she is as low skill-floored as say something like Michael that stares at you and deletes you with a mori at the press of button but hag's gameplay is pretty cut in dry.
as for flashlights change, it allowed counter to be more accessible. good teams don't really disable hag traps. instead, they spread out and loop very safely to avoid being downed early preventing hag from executing her camping strategy. This forces hag to 3 gen because hag has no map presence or chase potencial leaving entire game into 3 gen territory.
traps that are put in poor places are avoided because it is like -1 trap. traps that are in high traffic area like at loops are baited using the S tech. When traps are triggered, they are triggered at the same time. So at most, hag only gets 1 hit. this type of gameplay requires a lot coordinate by SWF. Bottomline SWF never had trouble with hag. It was soloq that had trouble with hag. the flashlight removal change gives soloq survivors with poor coordination the ability to solo disable traps. As a result, hag is weaker vs soloq which is like 80% of games where as previously, she was noob-stomper vs soloq.
i'd say her power-level is unchanged vs swf and weaker vs soloq.
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I play her quite a lot and it's a lot on trap placement and of course try to give someone trip to basement whenever possible.
Unless trap is literally in middle of the the nowhere, I try to put trap when survivor is going to hold S they run into wall, basically don't put it in middle but more side so they trigger the edge of your trap (door frames etc). Issue is that's map dependant.
What you need is bind teleport to scroll wheel if you are on PC, so I start scrolling whenever I think someone is about to step into the trap.
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I think that binding to the scroll wheel is part of the reason why she has a low pick rate, since it can't be done on a controller.
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For sure, if you can't instantly teleport with binding, you just need to spam teleport like crazy, which is annoying, Otherwise you are just going to either miss a lot or have to walk after the survivor, which sucks as 110%.
It's not just console tho, most people simply can't be bothered to go so far as changing bindings for a single killer...
I believe she should be 115% so situation where you are not able to get hit from triggered trap is not so punishing for Hag.
Another issue is 3-gen feature... She used to be quite good at and creating "web" around 3-gen is still main gameplan for her, when her teleport distance is limited.
Nerf of sloppy is also kinda annoying, because she focuses mostly on spreading hits, she is terrible at focusing on single survivor.
Her gameplay is completely different to standard killer in my opinion.
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It was a massive nerf. Before you needed a flashlight. Now anyone can remove them with no risk.
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How about a Haste effect for like 7 seconds or so whenever one of her traps is cleared? Not an add-on but in her kit?
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imo not really honestly. being able to erase traps with flashlights is stronger than having to crouch up to them, and the best way of removing traps in 90% of scenarios is setting them off anyway.
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It's really only a problem if you're predictable with trap placement or out in the open easy to see. Around corners and in grass or anywhere there's a lot of clutter most of the time they'll still trigger before the survivor realizes it's there.
Hag's real problem imo is a paradox because it has to do with trigger range. If it's too big survivors can literally run right through them and come out unscathed pretty consistently but if the range is too small they never trigger in the first place. I would imagine the fix to this I would imagine is keep it the way it is and maybe add a brief hinder to a survivor that triggers a trap, something modest like 5% for 3 seconds I think would do wonders to fix Hag's problems.
Although I'd be cautious with buffing her too much because Hag is still very feast or famine where if the survivors know how to play against her it can be a very rough game but if even one survivor screws up once it can irreparably screw the entire team.
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That's kinda random and doesn't do anything if survivors go path of triggering safely on purpose, which is the most annoying thing to play against as Hag.
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Hag needed a basekit nerf she's too ridiculous on levels like RPD to have been left alone
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She needs Haste after a teleport, or something, because it's so darn inconsistent teleporting to your traps. Sometimes you immediately swing after tp, and it works because the survivor's already in your armpit, but other times you swing and eat dust because the survivor magically has a 3-5 second lead on you.
What's funny about the trigger range reduction add-ons, which I recently started testing, is that Tru3 one time used both the green and yellow ones together to where his trigger radiuses were like nothing. I'm surprised he got to hits at all that match. But his Hag matches are always fluke successes.
While those add-ons certainly minimize the likelihood that 4 of your traps are gonna trigger in 2 seconds and get wasted, it doesn't stop it altogether and doesn't fill in any of Hag's weaknesses otherwise. I'd say there's still a few of her add-ons that need to be changed completely because they just don't do anything, like the deafening add-on. I like it for its unique effect, but not much else.
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So in her most ideal maps possible, against unprepared teams, then she becomes a threat. Sounds like she's not that strong.
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She does need to be 115%. 110% is reserved for killers who are like really strong, and Hag's only really strong when everything lines up perfectly for her, which is constant teleport hits into follow-up teleport hits. She only has 15 trap tokens, right? So assuming the survivors give that interaction to her 1 after the other from being healthy, she still falls short 1 token. Pretty eye opening. And she can't even get close to that as long as 1 survivor keeps screwing with her traps. If more than 1 survivor are doing that, forget it. Match over.
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*10 Tokens then after that the newest trap erases the oldest trap. Although to be fair it's uncommon to get all 10 down before survivors start triggering them.
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I often stay at my limit, simply because every time trap is triggered I place a new one nearby unless I see survivor is running to another trap to be ready teleport...
I use usually an addon for faster placement tho.
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Mhmm. I had to relearn the max traps the hard way. And I swear the trap limit used to be higher, and it should be. What having so few traps does is makes it way easier for the survivors to completely shut you down, because they're breaking all your traps, and you don't have a few extra placed for backup since you physically couldn't place anymore.
I think that most people, regardless of who you ask, maybe Otz, Hens, but especially the average player, have made Hag out to be this mythological tier killer who, if played correctly basically, can't be beat. But that's not the case at all, and all it takes to break that illusion is playing a few matches with her. She takes the unpredictability of killer match results and cranks it up to 11. First you'll have a 4k, then a 0k, then a 3k but only because they threw at the end, then a draw, then a 3-hook match, then a 1-hook match, then a 4-man slug at the very beginning, then a draw.
That's been my experience, and in not 1 of those matches did I feel confident that I could win. She is so anxiety inducing to play like no other killer, because you're spending minutes just fighting for a small amount of turf, and at any moment it can just disappear. I even had a match where the gens got done in 4 minutes, on a swamp map which is supposed to be her home territory. The only map I have had success on consistently is, of all things, RPD. So of course I see people complaining, "She's too strong on RPD!" No, it's just she's so pathetically weak everywhere else. Several times throughout the matches, I just have to say out loud, "This is pathetic." Between her problems as a killer, the robbed hits, the fearlessness the survivors have, teleporting to the wrong trap, walking so slow when you have to be fast. It's just too much. So I'm done testing Hag. I wanted to validate my thoughts on her, see if they were outdated or if I'd been fooling myself the whole time. Nope. She's exactly as I've described. Literal worst killer in the game if her opponents know her counterplay.
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As a pure Hag Main myself (playing only as her a soon she came out) I can only say that trap destruction via flashlight was very strong and needed to go. Wiping is a huge nerf but its a necessary counter.
Problem is there are so many counters ..
Out of to range, crouching, being seen, wiping, swf, ears (during a chase you hear trap placements), reaction when a Trap is triggered (yes after testing a lot it is extremely easy to dodge a trap after the trigger by reaction alone), exploits.. it just adds up
You cannot set up, the few traps you can set up get countered (most of the time by the exploit), swf just kills you and you cannot even chase after survs.
The changes she got a few months ago did absolutely nothing. I (and others) still run the same addons all the time, we still cannot hit anyone because of the counters and exploits and she still feels powerless most of the time.
I did some more tests (even as video If you dont believe me) and Hag cannot hit a surv out of a tp even if you combine the yellow and green trigger range addons together! It gets even worse: Coup de grace (+80% bigger attack range) still lets you not hit a surv after a trap trigger. Thats how bad it is. And as survivor you basically have to do nothing to avoid hits from trap triggers.
The pure minimum Hag needs is a global tp (so people won't complain that she sticks to one small part of any map), 115% base speed (so she can chase if traps fail) wraith/sadako speed boost after any tp (so she can actually hit survs out of a tp) and an almost Instant trap placing at all times so she can use her power during chase. Also trap wiping needs to be much faster to allow a healthy back and forth between survs and Hag for great interaction and a fix of the exploits.
It is really really an awful time to be a Hag main rn
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