Can Survivor mains say this is perfectly fine?

powerbats · January 2019

@ScottJund said:

im starting to think you havent even watched the game. I didn't have stridor, I didn't have extra hatchets, and I AFK'd the last 2 minutes of the match to just stop their streak instead of 4king. Are you confusing me with someone else? You seem to have some weird dislike for me

You''ll find that person you're responding to is like quite a few of the biased killers on here, they spout nonsense and then when called change their story and still spout nonsense.

The newest thing they do is use the killers are human and make mistakes excuse/deflection yet if the killer demolishes like you did then it's different.

It becomes well the survivors were potatoes not that the killer played better ignoring that they just claimed killers playing badly were human and made mistakes. So if the survivors make mistakes it's not because they're human but because they're potatoes.

powerbats · January 2019

Oh and in case anyone missed it this is someones smurf posting this again to start up drama which is probably why the last one got closed.

weirdkid5 · January 2019

@ScottJund said:

@weirdkid5 said:

@ScottJund said:

@weirdkid5 said:

@ScottJund said:

@weirdkid5 said:

@Vietfox said:
ZeroGaiden said:

In that case, Look up Marth88's (I think its just Marth now) The dereanking squad had 0 perks and 0 items and went against Killers with the best perks rank 3 with some of the best in slot add-ons and still destroyed the killers. That alone shows the game control 100% being in survivor hands unless said survivor makes mistakes.

Gonna copy/paste what i said in the other thread:
Don't forget that the depip squad played when the game was different than it is right now AND most of the killers they faced were bad and/or made several mistakes.
Tru3 DID make important mistakes and was running one of the worst killers you can run without perks and addons in a big map. If game was balanced towards that kind of situation don't you think it would be broken if he was running perks and addons? Besides, i think he got 4K with other weak killers like Freddy. Probably because survivors made mistakes too, and that's fine, because mistakes should be punished.

So are you saying ScottJund is bad? Cause they demolished him.

Mistakes should be punished, but when you have to win entirely on your opponents mistakes, you cannot win if they play perfectly, which isn't very difficult to pull off in this game unless you face a godlike Nurse.

What? They didn't demolish me? I won.

You went 2-2 against a team of Survivors that weren't using any perks, while you were using a sweat build with Huntress on Grim Pantry.

I wouldn't call it getting demolished, that's a little facetious on my part, but you did earn the pip. I'm not sure if you rematched them when they used perks, but the fact they still 2-2'd you with no perks is evident the game is still unbalanced, especially since 2 of them pipped and one safety pipped, given what you were running and they weren't running anything.

I can guarantee if you didn't run any perks or add-ons you likely would have lost. The fact Survivors can do what they did and still come out as balance intends shows that Survivors are way too powerful. Add perks to them, and they become nearly unstoppable.

This is the match if anyone has any interest in seeing it. Marth's performance aside (who admits he was "boosted" this match), this is what SWF is capable of, and how skewed the balance truly is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cssz6aQ9Dq8

Just saying, I was the first one to pip against them and then you say "they demolished me" when I pipped on Huntress with no instathrow, Iridescent, Ruin, on Swamp of all maps. You're just basically lying at that point. Stop that.

I said "that's a little facetious on my part." Or, I guess you missed the statement where I renounced what I said before? You still ran other meta perks on top of meta Add-ons, all to 2-2 a pack of survivors with no perks.

You had BBQ, whispers, and Stridor, and Nurses, on top of running 2 extra hatchets, AND Babushka for faster charge up time.

I might go back to saying they demolished you just cause it drives home the point you still couldn't 4k a pack of no perk survivors, and you had to use a top-level build just to pull that off.

im starting to think you havent even watched the game. I didn't have stridor, I didn't have extra hatchets, and I AFK'd the last 2 minutes of the match to just stop their streak instead of 4king. Are you confusing me with someone else? You seem to have some weird dislike for me

Oops you're right you didn't have Stridor, that's my bad, and I thought the Begrimed hatchet was the Infantry Belt from the quality of the video (I'm on my phone at the moment). False info is not what I wanna spread, I legit mistook those perks and addons.

And so you stopped playing the last (minute, you hooked the last guy right when the gates were powered) just cause you wanted to stop the streak? If that was your only goal in the match, the you barely achieved it given when you Killed the last guy. You afk'd cause the gates were powered and regardless there is nothing you could have done to get them anyway, as both Clauds would have been out by the time you got to the other side and started running the loop again. That actually further drives home my point, as the Killer it still took you all match just to get 2 players. Imagine if they actually had Self-Care or DS, which is another one of my points. Did you rematch the Squad when they used perks? That's what I'm curious to see.

The point of you pipping is irrelevant to the point I am making anyway considering a Killer can still pip without even Killing anyone (at the time, I believe this even before Emblems, so yeah, it was really easy for a Killer to pip still). That is also one of my main issues with the game, but that is a different point entirely that has to do with the Ranking system itself.

As far as liking you as a person, I don't know enough about you or anything you say to have a dislike for you, nor am I saying these things out of spite. I'm using your match against the squad as a basis for how unbalanced the game is, and you being a Killer that is actually competent helps to reveal the balance flaws.

Because if it takes a top level Killer using 3/4 meta perks and 1/2 meta add-ons just to get a 2k on a group Survivors using nothing at all, the game is busted in terms of balance

weirdkid5 · January 2019

@ScottJund I question whether or not you would have been able to pip if the Emblems were in place at the time, as this was still during the Bloodpoint (derp meant Victory Cube kek) ranking system. You likely would have only saftey'd under current Emblem rules.

ScottJund · January 2019

weirdkid5 said:

@ScottJund I question whether or not you would have been able to pip if the Emblems were in place at the time, as this was still during the Bloodpoint ranking system. You likely would have only saftey'd under current Emblem rules.

Jesus how are you this misinformed on EVERYTHING. It was even harder for killer to pip during the patch those games took place

Master · January 2019

Mochan said:

First: doesn't happen every game. Every killer pretending this is common is delusional.
Second: doctor let Laurie take him for a loop. That's his mistake.
Third: Just because some popular streamer (I don't know who this is) gets wrecked it doesn't mean the other side is OP. Streamers are so annoying because they poison the minds of the community, but they are also good because at least they help grow the game. Still, stop letting streamers brainwash you.
Fourth: There is no best player in the world. Everyone makes mistakes. There's a killer or a group of survivors out there who will outplay you. And it happens. There is also a good element of luck and randomness in this game as well, it's not 100% skill. When the perfect storm happens, a super genrush can occur. That is both the killer's fault for making mistakes, a pat on the back for the survivors for doing exactly what needed to be done, and luck in how things turned out.
Fifth: If survivors are really OP at the highest levels, who the hell cares. Survivors at the lower ranks aren't playing as good as that. This is just how the game is right now. Deal with it.

Lastly, if these threads are getting closed then there's some censorship going on, boo on that to the moderators.

I love this argument.
It's balanced because it doesn't happen every game lul

Unknown · January 2019

This content has been removed.

Bravo0413 · January 2019

Laakeri said:

How can somebody with like 5k hours not know how to play shack as killer?

Also ignores people on nearly completed gen to tunnel?

This video would be great for oh_tofus "improving your gameplay" serie, but I dont think he wants to burn any bridges.

You state "nearly completed gen" I can argue if he were to push the survivor off that it wouldnt have even mattered.... like how many seconds would he have gotten? If we're talking about the same moment it's where the pallet save happens, so yeah he would've pushed the person off then the other one would have just jumped back on to the gen and finished it anyways.... like what did "pushing the survivor off" do? Okay 2 people wouldn't be doing gens because 1 would be on the floor and the other 1 true would be chasing but that was the 3rd gen finished... there was nothing that could have been done in this match that would have changed the outcome...

weirdkid5 · January 2019

@ScottJund said:
weirdkid5 said:

@ScottJund I question whether or not you would have been able to pip if the Emblems were in place at the time, as this was still during the Bloodpoint ranking system. You likely would have only saftey'd under current Emblem rules.

Jesus how are you this misinformed on EVERYTHING. It was even harder for killer to pip during the patch those games took place

Holy ######### I forgot the terrible Victory Cube even existed smh. I removed that ######### from my brain is was so terrible lmao (I think I need to put down this green stuff I got besides me right now).

Judging on your performance that match you still probably wouldn't have gotten more than a Safety with the current ruleset. With all gens completed, that's a no emblem in Gatekeeper, you would've gotten a Gold in Devout for 2 Sacs and hooking all Survivors, possibly a Bronze but likely a Silver in Malicious (you didn't get many hits overall, there were healed off a few times) and you would've gotten around a Silver or a Gold in Chaser. It would have required you to get Iridescent in at least one of the possible categories you scored in, or all 3 Gold Emblems. I would actually like to go and analyze that.

So actually, although I was incorrect about what system was in place, you were actually still saved by the Victory Cube in terms of your pip. So in actuality, it is harder to pip NOW than back then, at least in certain circumstances based on what happens in the match.

weirdkid5 · January 2019

@powerbats said:

@ScottJund said:

im starting to think you havent even watched the game. I didn't have stridor, I didn't have extra hatchets, and I AFK'd the last 2 minutes of the match to just stop their streak instead of 4king. Are you confusing me with someone else? You seem to have some weird dislike for me

You''ll find that person you're responding to is like quite a few of the biased killers on here, they spout nonsense and then when called change their story and still spout nonsense.

The newest thing they do is use the killers are human and make mistakes excuse/deflection yet if the killer demolishes like you did then it's different.

It becomes well the survivors were potatoes not that the killer played better ignoring that they just claimed killers playing badly were human and made mistakes. So if the survivors make mistakes it's not because they're human but because they're potatoes.

Except I'm not a Killer fam, I've already provided enough evidence to you, whether you acknowledge it or not, that I am a Survivor. And actually, when he called me out on what I said, I admitted to my incorrect statements and rectified it. 3/4 meta perks and 1/2 meta add-ons is still a meta build fammo. You'll have to excuse if I haven't played this game in over a year, aside from a few matches about a week ago, and my lack of a good memory.

And what are you talking about? I have also already acknowledged that Scott can win 20 games in a row if you read my other comments, but Scott hardly "demolished" the Depip Squad. He just barely got the pip when the last gen was activated. That isn't a demolishing game, especially against no-perked Survivors.

And this match proves exactly that, Killers can capitalize on Survivor mistakes, but even when doing so you still need to sweat in order to get your pip off. I actually never said Scott played bad during this match, he actually played well to the best of his abilities.

And that is further one of my points, that he sweated and still barely got the pip. I think you guys seem to be missing the point entirely here.

As far as the incorrect statements about @ScottJund 's loadout, I do rescind the Stridor and Belt claim (again, on my phone atm) well as my forgetting of the Victory Cube. But this game is still prime example of the issues at hand, and I will still be relaying this information (along with the fact that if this match was in current Emblem System, there would have been no pip earned by Scott )

Yamaoka · January 2019

Tru3 chased and tunneled one single survivor for 2.5 minutes without perks/addons. It takes 1 minute and 20 seconds for one survivor to finish one gen. He knows that and even told people to not chase a survivor for too long if you have no ruin. Is this thread some kind of a joke? This isn't gen rush. It's just him ignoring his own advice. 3 people basically didn't notice the killer so of course they're going to work on gens. Now take 3 people and 2.5 minutes. Of course they'll finish 4 gens. That's the result of not letting the survivor go. I never chase for too long if I notice the chased survivor wastes too much of my time. That's how I usually surprise people on gens resulting in quick hooks.

weirdkid5 · January 2019

@Yamaoka said:
Tru3 chased and tunneled one single survivor for 2.5 minutes without perks/addons. It takes 1 minute and 20 seconds for one survivor to finish one gen. He knows that and even told people to not chase a survivor for too long if you have no ruin. Is this thread some kind of a joke? This isn't gen rush. It's just him ignoring his own advice. 3 people basically didn't notice the killer so of course they're going to work on gens. Now take 3 people and 2.5 minutes. Of course they'll finish 4 gens. That's the result of not letting the survivor go. I never chase for too long if I notice the chased survivor wastes too much of my time. That's how I usually surprise people on gens resulting in quick hooks.

Except letting a Survivor go just results in them either Self-Caring, and forces you to track down another Survivor. Tru3 didn't know at the time the guy didn't have perks, so why would he risk the self-heal?

I mean it it only takes around 20 seconds to Self-Care. If you keep dropping chases, you'll never get anyone. And if you aren't playing a high level Killer like Nurse or Billy, you really can't afford to drop chases at all, especially Doctor. He excels in long chases. So what this comes down to is Doc is just trash.

This is just further proof of certain Killers being absolute trash. Balance of the genrush aside, there is legitimately no effective way for any Killer not Nurse or Billy to be able to patrol and make the Survivor lose ground.

Yamaoka · January 2019

If you drop chases after like 1 minute many pallets will be gone causing other survivors to go down where you couldn't catch the survivor you have chased before. That's how I win most of the time. I never chase for more than a minute. If I catch the survivor within that time, fine. If I don't - I check gens. I will ALWAYS find another survivor after a 1 minute chase because they will obviously be working on gens if you chase for a minute (which is a rather long chase even). What he did was just utter bull. Wasting 2.5 minutes on one survivor while playing without ruin just doesn't work. Also you seem to forget:

- if you drop the chase the survivor will heal himself so there are only 3 survivors that are working on gens
- if you go for another survivor there will be only 2 survivors working on gens
- if you catch that second survivor at places where the first survivor wasted pallets one of the remaining 3 survivors will have to come to unhook him so there's only 2 survivors potentially working on gens (again).

That's what causes pressure on survivors. Going for that one single survivor is just stupid. You can't expect 3 people to just wait and do nothing.

powerbats · January 2019

@weirdkid5 said:

Except I'm not a Killer fam, I've already provided enough evidence to you, whether you acknowledge it or not, that I am a Survivor. And actually, when he called me out on what I said, I admitted to my incorrect statements and rectified it. 3/4 meta perks and 1/2 meta add-ons is still a meta build fammo. You'll have to excuse if I haven't played this game in over a year, aside from a few matches about a week ago, and my lack of a good memory.

I should've been more specific on that so apologies but if you look at certain killer mains on here my point stands.

And what are you talking about? I have also already acknowledged that Scott can win 20 games in a row if you read my other comments, but Scott hardly "demolished" the Depip Squad. He just barely got the pip when the last gen was activated. That isn't a demolishing game, especially against no-perked Survivors.

Ok so he didn't destroy a pro team but the video is stupid as an example.

And this match proves exactly that, Killers can capitalize on Survivor mistakes, but even when doing so you still need to sweat in order to get your pip off. I actually never said Scott played bad during this match, he actually played well to the best of his abilities.

So a pro caliber player having to work their ass off against other pro caliber players is a problem why again? If he was playing against bad survivors or even average and struggled then it'd be different.

And that is further one of my points, that he sweated and still barely got the pip. I think you guys seem to be missing the point entirely here.

No we're not missing the point ehre, it's just irrelevant considering the talent level he was facing, you're trying to justify that video by using him playing against equal talent and having to work hard.

As far as the incorrect statements about @ScottJund 's loadout, I was incorrect as well as my forgetting of the Victory Cube. But this game is still prime example of the issues at hand, and I will still be relaying this information (along with the fact that if this match was in current Emblem System, there would have been no pip earned by Scott )

There's no denying there's issues at hand what's the issue is that you and others are blowing them out of proportion to justify a false narrative.

mcNuggets · January 2019

@ZeroGaiden said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfRH5VzNOhI

1 hook, 4 gens

Genrush is perfectly bAlAnCeD

weirdkid5 · January 2019

@powerbats said:

@weirdkid5 said:

Except I'm not a Killer fam, I've already provided enough evidence to you, whether you acknowledge it or not, that I am a Survivor. And actually, when he called me out on what I said, I admitted to my incorrect statements and rectified it. 3/4 meta perks and 1/2 meta add-ons is still a meta build fammo. You'll have to excuse if I haven't played this game in over a year, aside from a few matches about a week ago, and my lack of a good memory.

I should've been more specific on that so apologies but if you look at certain killer mains on here my point stands.

No worries, we all human.

And what are you talking about? I have also already acknowledged that Scott can win 20 games in a row if you read my other comments, but Scott hardly "demolished" the Depip Squad. He just barely got the pip when the last gen was activated. That isn't a demolishing game, especially against no-perked Survivors.

Ok so he didn't destroy a pro team but the video is stupid as an example.

Not really, I'll explain why.

And this match proves exactly that, Killers can capitalize on Survivor mistakes, but even when doing so you still need to sweat in order to get your pip off. I actually never said Scott played bad during this match, he actually played well to the best of his abilities.

So a pro caliber player having to work their ass off against other pro caliber players is a problem why again? If he was playing against bad survivors or even average and struggled then it'd be different.

You have to take into consideration that again, they were running perkless. This is without DS, SC, Dead Hard, or other various perks that make playing Survivor much easier.

And that is further one of my points, that he sweated and still barely got the pip. I think you guys seem to be missing the point entirely here.

No we're not missing the point ehre, it's just irrelevant considering the talent level he was facing, you're trying to justify that video by using him playing against equal talent and having to work hard.

Equal talent that was intentionally handicapping itself to prove that perks are unneeded for Survivors to be successful in this game.

As far as the incorrect statements about @ScottJund 's loadout, I was incorrect as well as my forgetting of the Victory Cube. But this game is still prime example of the issues at hand, and I will still be relaying this information (along with the fact that if this match was in current Emblem System, there would have been no pip earned by Scott )

There's no denying there's issues at hand what's the issue is that you and others are blowing them out of proportion to justify a false narrative.

It isn't out of proportion though, as I've said previously, the game needs to be balanced around the top level Survivors and Killers. As it stands, there is massive disparity in the amount of effort each side has to put out to be victorious.

Hoodied · January 2019

Before this one gets closed I have a statement, genrush is doing the objective deal with it

weirdkid5 · January 2019

@ToxicFengM1n said:
Before this one gets closed I have a question, genrush is doing the objective deal with it

Camping is doing the objective, deal with it.

Hoodied · January 2019

@weirdkid5 said:

@ToxicFengM1n said:
Before this one gets closed I have a question, genrush is doing the objective deal with it

Camping is doing the objective, deal with it.

@weirdkid5 said:

@ToxicFengM1n said:
Before this one gets closed I have a question, genrush is doing the objective deal with it

Camping is doing the objective, deal with it.

Camping damages one of your emblems so it is not objective and if survivors know your camping you will lose

PiiFree · January 2019

@Yamaoka said:
Tru3 chased and tunneled one single survivor for 2.5 minutes without perks/addons. It takes 1 minute and 20 seconds for one survivor to finish one gen. He knows that and even told people to not chase a survivor for too long if you have no ruin. Is this thread some kind of a joke? This isn't gen rush. It's just him ignoring his own advice. 3 people basically didn't notice the killer so of course they're going to work on gens. Now take 3 people and 2.5 minutes. Of course they'll finish 4 gens. That's the result of not letting the survivor go. I never chase for too long if I notice the chased survivor wastes too much of my time. That's how I usually surprise people on gens resulting in quick hooks.

It doesn't matter who you chase as good Survivors will easily be able to loop you for 1-2 minutes.

You chase Survivor A for 1 minute. Result is Survivor B, C and D were working on gens for a minute. You don't commit to the chase and instead look for the other Survivors. What will happen? You spend time looking for someone else and the story repeats; you chase them for a minute and in the meantime Survivor A, C and D are working on gens.

You're just switching the player but you can't stop Survivors from looping you by switching players. You can find the weak spot this way, but if all 4 Survivors are skilled you're just switching targets without getting anything done.

That's something most survivors fail to understand. You can chase a looper for 1 minute only to find out the other Survivors are going to loop you for 3 minutes.

It's a huge risky gamble, can I find a Survivor that is not competent enough to loop me? If yes, well played! If no? FML, game is over.

weirdkid5 · January 2019

@ToxicFengM1n said:

@weirdkid5 said:

@ToxicFengM1n said:
Before this one gets closed I have a question, genrush is doing the objective deal with it

Camping is doing the objective, deal with it.

@weirdkid5 said:

@ToxicFengM1n said:
Before this one gets closed I have a question, genrush is doing the objective deal with it

Camping is doing the objective, deal with it.

Camping damages one of your emblems so it is not objective and if survivors know your camping you will lose

Pips are irrelevant for someone that just wants to Kill or has already hit Rank 1. This goes for both Survivors and Killers.

If you wanna go that route, genrushing is damaging to your emblems too, because if you finish the game too fast you won't have time to earn Benevolence or Evader.

Hoodied · January 2019

@weirdkid5 said:

@ToxicFengM1n said:

@weirdkid5 said:

@ToxicFengM1n said:
Before this one gets closed I have a question, genrush is doing the objective deal with it

Camping is doing the objective, deal with it.

@weirdkid5 said:

@ToxicFengM1n said:
Before this one gets closed I have a question, genrush is doing the objective deal with it

Camping is doing the objective, deal with it.

Camping damages one of your emblems so it is not objective and if survivors know your camping you will lose

Pips are irrelevant for someone that just wants to Kill or has already hit Rank 1. This goes for both Survivors and Killers.

If you wanna go that route, genrushing is damaging to your emblems too, because if you finish the game too fast you won't have time to earn Benevolence or Evader.

Players enter in and out of the chase when doing generators unless the killers afk or is boosted, really, this is a fact too, I have never entered a match where I don't get into a chase, it just shows that either you are doing gens and playing hide and seek with the killer, and like I said, they are afk or boosted, also wanting to stay rank 1 requires pips I believe

PiiFree · January 2019

@ToxicFengM1n said:
Players enter in and out of the chase when doing generators unless the killers afk or is boosted, really, this is a fact too, I have never entered a match where I don't get into a chase, it just shows that either you are doing gens and playing hide and seek with the killer, and like I said, they are afk or boosted, also wanting to stay rank 1 requires pips I believe

Do you know what gen rush means? You're not pointlessly looking for chases, you're doing the gens and gtfo. Any sort of interaction that's not totally required is a waste of time and hurts the gen rush.

One person at a time keeps the Killer busy while the rest rushes the gens. You don't have time to fill up the Chaser points for everyone and don't even get me started with Benevolent. When there's only 1 hook done you won't get ######### in that emblem either.

Gen rush won't make you pip as Survivor and according to your logic, that means it's NOT doing the objective.

Deal with it.

weirdkid5 · January 2019

@ToxicFengM1n said:

@weirdkid5 said:

@ToxicFengM1n said:

@weirdkid5 said:

@ToxicFengM1n said:
Before this one gets closed I have a question, genrush is doing the objective deal with it

Camping is doing the objective, deal with it.

@weirdkid5 said:

@ToxicFengM1n said:
Before this one gets closed I have a question, genrush is doing the objective deal with it

Camping is doing the objective, deal with it.

Camping damages one of your emblems so it is not objective and if survivors know your camping you will lose

Pips are irrelevant for someone that just wants to Kill or has already hit Rank 1. This goes for both Survivors and Killers.

If you wanna go that route, genrushing is damaging to your emblems too, because if you finish the game too fast you won't have time to earn Benevolence or Evader.

Players enter in and out of the chase when doing generators unless the killers afk or is boosted, really, this is a fact too, I have never entered a match where I don't get into a chase, it just shows that either you are doing gens and playing hide and seek with the killer, and like I said, they are afk or boosted, also wanting to stay rank 1 requires pips I believe

Yeah and I have also gone through and Survived a match without pipping despite doing 2 gens and never getting into a single chase. I shouldn't have to go out of my way to find the Killer to get into a chase to make up the Emblems I'm not earning because the game goes too fast, I don't even need to be sneaky if someone is just looping the Killer. If no one ever gets hooked, then you never get Benevolence either.

Uh, genrush is exactly that, doing gens and ignoring the Killer. Doing this gets you no Chaser, as chasing wastes time and thus you aren't genrushing if you are doing a chase. And no, you can still safety pip and maintain a Rank 1 status homie.

My earning of an Emblem should not be dependent on if the Killer is good or not.

Hoodied · January 2019

@PiiFree said:

@ToxicFengM1n said:
Players enter in and out of the chase when doing generators unless the killers afk or is boosted, really, this is a fact too, I have never entered a match where I don't get into a chase, it just shows that either you are doing gens and playing hide and seek with the killer, and like I said, they are afk or boosted, also wanting to stay rank 1 requires pips I believe

Do you know what gen rush means? You're not pointlessly looking for chases, you're doing the gens and gtfo. Any sort of interaction that's not totally required is a waste of time and hurts the gen rush.

One person at a time keeps the Killer busy while the rest rushes the gens. You don't have time to fill up the Chaser points for everyone and don't even get me started with Benevolent. When there's only 1 hook done you won't get ######### in that emblem either.

Gen rush won't make you pip as Survivor and according to your logic, that means it's NOT doing the objective.

Deal with it.

yeah, but not always will you be on a gen due to a killer, ######### is this logic you think I follow I said that because the objective is to kill all survivors, not a singular survivor, the survivors objective is do gens and gtfo

weirdkid5 · January 2019

@ToxicFengM1n said:

@PiiFree said:

@ToxicFengM1n said:
Players enter in and out of the chase when doing generators unless the killers afk or is boosted, really, this is a fact too, I have never entered a match where I don't get into a chase, it just shows that either you are doing gens and playing hide and seek with the killer, and like I said, they are afk or boosted, also wanting to stay rank 1 requires pips I believe

Do you know what gen rush means? You're not pointlessly looking for chases, you're doing the gens and gtfo. Any sort of interaction that's not totally required is a waste of time and hurts the gen rush.

One person at a time keeps the Killer busy while the rest rushes the gens. You don't have time to fill up the Chaser points for everyone and don't even get me started with Benevolent. When there's only 1 hook done you won't get ######### in that emblem either.

Gen rush won't make you pip as Survivor and according to your logic, that means it's NOT doing the objective.

Deal with it.

yeah, but not always will you be on a gen due to a killer, ######### is this logic you think I follow I said that because the objective is to kill all survivors, not a singular survivor, the survivors objective is do gens and gtfo

Ok, and if a Killer is always on you then you cannot complete gens in order to get the pip.

Genrush strategy is the worst strategy for Survivors to pip, just like Camping is the worst for Killers to pip.

And no, a Killer's goal is to Kill at least 2 Survivors as intended by the devs.

Doing all the gens asap and getting out doesn't get you a pip if you were never chased or no one ever got hooked because you finished the game before the Killer could down anyone.

PiiFree · January 2019

@ToxicFengM1n said:
yeah, but not always will you be on a gen due to a killer, ######### is this logic you think I follow I said that because the objective is to kill all survivors, not a singular survivor, the survivors objective is do gens and gtfo

That's your logic:

@ToxicFengM1n said:
Camping damages one of your emblems so it is not objective and if survivors know your camping you will lose

And now I apply the same logic to gen rush:

Gen rushing damages two of your emblems (Evader and Benevolent) so it is not objective and (best part) even if Killers know you're gen rushing there's nothing they can do about it.

EVERYONE is going to lose if Survivors rush the gens.

Vietfox · January 2019

@weirdkid5 said:

@ScottJund said:
weirdkid5 said:

@ScottJund I question whether or not you would have been able to pip if the Emblems were in place at the time, as this was still during the Bloodpoint ranking system. You likely would have only saftey'd under current Emblem rules.

Jesus how are you this misinformed on EVERYTHING. It was even harder for killer to pip during the patch those games took place

Holy ######### I forgot the terrible Victory Cube even existed smh. I removed that ######### from my brain is was so terrible lmao (I think I need to put down this green stuff I got besides me right now).

Lol looks like @ScottJund demolished you. I honestly didn't say anything because i never watched that match so i assumed you were telling the truth.

weirdkid5 · January 2019

@Vietfox said:
@weirdkid5 said:

@ScottJund said:

weirdkid5 said:
@ScottJund I question whether or not you would have been able to pip if the Emblems were in place at the time, as this was still during the Bloodpoint ranking system. You likely would have only saftey'd under current Emblem rules.
Jesus how are you this misinformed on EVERYTHING. It was even harder for killer to pip during the patch those games took place

Holy ######### I forgot the terrible Victory Cube even existed smh. I removed that ######### from my brain is was so terrible lmao (I think I need to put down this green stuff I got besides me right now).

Lol looks like @ScottJund demolished you. I honestly didn't say anything because i never watched that match so i assumed you were telling the truth.

Nah I just legit forgot about Victory Cube being a thing, I just kinda assumed it was still Bloodpoint based. I'll hold that L tho.

Regardless, this doesn't change the fact he likely only would have safety pipped in the current form of the Emblems.

Either way, as I stated before, him pipping isn't a part of my point, as the games Ranking system fluctuates greatly with time. The point overall is how much he has to sweat just to achieve what he did.

If you have to be one of the best Killers using a pretty high level loadout just to go 2-2 against Survivors that are intentionally handicapping themselves, then there is a problem with the balance.

TAG · January 2019

weirdkid5 said:
Not every Survivor plays this way, but any game that takes its balance seriously always balances the game around the top-level players, because they are the ones that can abuse the systems the most.

I think this an important thing that needs to me emphasized. Just for clarification, I'm a bad player and am not gonna be able to offer much (if any) input on whether the super optimized SWF team is too unbeatable or w/e. Just a majority of players is not capable of taking advantage of something potentially unbalanced to its fullest extent does not mean that the potentially unbalanced thing should not be looked at. If it is a strategy is genuinely unbalanced, I don't think the difficulty of said strategy or the frequency of said strategy should be able to singlehandedly prevent balancing things to keep things in better check.

Good example from outside of DBD: Krark-Clan Ironworks from Magic: The Gathering. A centerpiece to a deck in the Modern format that was apparently VERY difficult to pilot well and as a result wasn't exactly everywhere in the metagame. But in the hands of people who were able to pilot it properly, the KCI deck put up extremely good results and as a result was over time dominating the competitive field despite apparently being relatively tame as far as actual presence in numbers.

Rather than just deciding that things were fine because its difficulty resulted in limited numbers of people playing it, the people behind the card game looked at its viability over a lengthy period of time to see just how balanced it was and how potentially detrimental it was to the game. The end result was them determining that despite being not too big in presence, the success rate it had at the higher levels of play far eclipsed the competition with no sign of that stopping anytime soon. And as such, they made the announcement yesterday that the card in question was banned from the format.

Maybe super optimized SWF teams are OP, maybe not. Again, not good enough to really offer much on that debate. The main thing I can say is that while it can certainly be a factor, I don't think the small presence of something potentially overpowered should alone be enough reason to dismiss it as a non-issue, and I think taking care of a problem (assuming it is deemed a problem) while it is not widespread is a valid way to go about things.

twistedmonkey · January 2019

The problem with a lot of people in this thread is they seem to deem what they want is how the game should be.

The emblem system is a clear example of what the devs envisage, not competative play, not easy kills or easy escapes but an engaging chase, hide, evade and objective game where players have fun.

Fun of course being subjective but the fun should be in the journey not the end result or you miss out on the majority of the whole experience.

This video shows one extreme which is not what the devs want but on the flip side they also don't want survivors to be downed and all killed in 4 mins which can also happen, anyone can post a video showing an extreme but the average normal game is not this and these types of players don't get much BP in the end and the game is about BP more than anything else with the huge grind that it is.

There is no point debating what you personally want the game to be, if you are not happy why do you play and why not put all the energy you use to complain to make you own game?

DBD is very successful and has been growing so that says the vast majority enjoy it, it is also common knowledge the majority of players dont visit the forums often as they are happy enough and don't need to complain.

So ask yourself why the devs should listen to what you say and not keep going in the direction they are if it is working from a business standpoint.

Raccoon · January 2019

Jack11803 said:

@Mister_xD said:

@Vietfox said:
We already got a thread like this, can you @Peanits close this one please?

and this is why i dodge 2 or more toolboxes ^^

just thought you might be interested.

I bet you’ll love dedicated servers.

They'll have just as much fun leaving lobbies on these dedicated servers.

I'm not really sure what your message is, unless you're implying that killers will not be able to leave lobbies on said servers.

If so, I'm gonna have to ask for a source.

weirdkid5 · January 2019

@TAG said:
I think this an important thing that needs to me emphasized. Just for clarification, I'm a bad player and am not gonna be able to offer much (if any) input on whether the super optimized SWF team is too unbeatable or w/e. Just a majority of players is not capable of taking advantage of something potentially unbalanced to its fullest extent does not mean that the potentially unbalanced thing should not be looked at. If it is a strategy is genuinely unbalanced, I don't think the difficulty of said strategy or the frequency of said strategy should be able to singlehandedly prevent balancing things to keep things in better check.

Good example from outside of DBD: Krark-Clan Ironworks from Magic: The Gathering. A centerpiece to a deck in the Modern format that was apparently VERY difficult to pilot well and as a result wasn't exactly everywhere in the metagame. But in the hands of people who were able to pilot it properly, the KCI deck put up extremely good results and as a result was over time dominating the competitive field despite apparently being relatively tame as far as actual presence in numbers.

Rather than just deciding that things were fine because its difficulty resulted in limited numbers of people playing it, the people behind the card game looked at its viability over a lengthy period of time to see just how balanced it was and how potentially detrimental it was to the game. The end result was them determining that despite being not too big in presence, the success rate it had at the higher levels of play far eclipsed the competition with no sign of that stopping anytime soon. And as such, they made the announcement yesterday that the card in question was banned from the format.

Maybe super optimized SWF teams are OP, maybe not. Again, not good enough to really offer much on that debate. The main thing I can say is that while it can certainly be a factor, I don't think the small presence of something potentially overpowered should alone be enough reason to dismiss it as a non-issue, and I think taking care of a problem (assuming it is deemed a problem) while it is not widespread is a valid way to go about things.

This was very concisely put. I agree 100%

@twistedmonkey said:
The problem with a lot of people in this thread is they seem to deem what they want is how the game should be.

That's the point of forums, for feedback and ideas.

The emblem system is a clear example of what the devs envisage, not competative play, not easy kills or easy escapes but an engaging chase, hide, evade and objective game where players have fun.

I don't have fun with the current system though. If you wanna talk about vision, this game originally had the vision of only solo-players, which is one of the many reasons I bought the game Day 1. It has drastically changed from what I initially paid for.

Fun of course being subjective but the fun should be in the journey not the end result or you miss out on the majority of the whole experience.

The journey is boring though. Running around in circles and holding M1 is not engaging gameplay in the slightest for anyone with 600+ hours. This is why people end up resorting to troll tactics.

This video shows one extreme which is not what the devs want but on the flip side they also don't want survivors to be downed and all killed in 4 mins which can also happen, anyone can post a video showing an extreme but the average normal game is not this and these types of players don't get much BP in the end and the game is about BP more than anything else with the huge grind that it is.

Survivors only go down and all die in 4 mins if they are terrible at the game. I can show you videos of me doing this myself, my fastest game ended in 2:30 as Billy. But, that was because the Survivors made stupid decisions.

The game shouldn't be about BP, this is one of the major issues of the game. Many players simply farm.

There is no point debating what you personally want the game to be, if you are not happy why do you play and why not put all the energy you use to complain to make you own game?

Because I paid for the game and the forums exist, therefore I have the right to say what I dislike about the game and what I would prefer to be in the game. Oh, and I am planning to get involved in the industry already once I get my degree, so no worries there mate.

DBD is very successful and has been growing so that says the vast majority enjoy it, it is also common knowledge the majority of players dont visit the forums often as they are happy enough and don't need to complain.

The vast majority? You do realize the game has probably over 100,000 unique players on Steam alone, but unless an event is currently present, only about 10k people play the game? A new event is rising soon, so more players are returning. "Vast majority," the vast majority of players are Survivors, not Killers. So obviously, as long as the game is good for Survivors, the game is good for business.

So ask yourself why the devs should listen to what you say and not keep going in the direction they are if it is working from a business standpoint.

Because integrity is more important than business when it comes to video games, just look at EA, Activision, Blizzard, and Bethesda, all of whom are burning ever so quickly because the prioritize making cash over actually making decent video games. It works for a while, but people eventually catch on to your bullshit.

This game has just enough troll value to attract people that aren't even old enough to play the game based on ratings. I imagine this is the game kids flock to when they see they suck at building in Fortnite.

twistedmonkey · January 2019

@weirdkid5

Balancing a game such as this over the top 1% even 5% does not work, it only works when you permanently seperate different skill lvls which this game does not and seems to not be anywhere in the devs future plans.

If you balanced it on those players then killers would be op for the rest making the game less fun and more try hard competative and like I said that doesn't seem to be what the devs want.

If you are not enjoying the journey why do you still play? I don't enjoy many games so I don't play, I also don't go to their forums and think I know better, constantly complain when they are successful with what they have, its a simple concept to grasp that it's not my game designed for myself.

You can say what you like about the big players but they still make a ######### ton of money, it's a business nothing more and the goal is to make a game the majority like not what the small percentage of complainers want.

I think you like the concept of DBD and are just upset your not enjoying it as much anymore, you may possibly be burned out or as it happens frequently have just done your time and maybe need to think about moving onto another game.

Yes the vast majority, if only 10k players played it there wouldn't be a daily peak of over 30k average and 21k playing now without an event, that's also peak number so gou have to think how many have played as some play an hour and others 10 so your figures are far from how many players have actually logged in that day and played.

If some players think they know better, prove the devs wrong, group together and make a game to compete but please don't try to tell a successful company with a successful product because from a personal standpoint you think they are doing it wrong as that's highly laughable.

It's a game play if you enjoy it or don't, it's a choice and not everyone likes everything hence how saturated the market is.

weirdkid5 · January 2019

@twistedmonkey said:
@weirdkid5

Balancing a game such as this over the top 1% even 5% does not work, it only works when you permanently seperate different skill lvls which this game does not and seems to not be anywhere in the devs future plans.

Part of my main issue, thanks for connecting the dots.

If you balanced it on those players then killers would be op for the rest making the game less fun and more try hard competative and like I said that doesn't seem to be what the devs want.

Killers being OP isn't what I want at all, don't conflate that. It isn't the balance's fault that, even with top level Killers, top level Survivors can still roflstomp them. Making the Killers better wouldn't make them OP, it would make the game more fair.

If you are not enjoying the journey why do you still play? I don't enjoy many games so I don't play, I also don't go to their forums and think I know better, constantly complain when they are successful with what they have, its a simple concept to grasp that it's not my game designed for myself.

You are using some ass backwards logic right here man, I'm just gonna say it. The reason forums exist is to give feedback and opinions, if you don't like that then you probably need to stop going to forums. You telling me this is being a corporate apologist and I don't deal with those kinds of people. You are exerting your own opinion right now on the forums, making yourself a hypocrite. You are complaining about people complaining, man that's pretty low.

You can say what you like about the big players but they still make a ######### ton of money, it's a business nothing more and the goal is to make a game the majority like not what the small percentage of complainers want.

Small percentage of complainers? That's why their stocks are taking a nosedive right? It goes beyond them "just making money" when people's livlihoods are being ruined, employees being let go because they are trying to cut costs, due to not catering to players opinions anymore. The fact you make this just about money makes me believe I'm talking to a BHVR secondary account right now.

I think you like the concept of DBD and are just upset your not enjoying it as much anymore, you may possibly be burned out or as it happens frequently have just done your time and maybe need to think about moving onto another game.

No, I'm not enjoying as much because the game is too easy. This is one of my favorite games of all time, and I'll play it as much as I want. The game has clearly become something different overtime, with the devs catering to the lowest common denominator in order to cash in.

Ultimately, whether this game dies or not isn't my point. My point is that I will continue to speak on this junk regardless if it will ever be changed, so I'd advise just ignoring me if you don't like my posts.

Yes the vast majority, if only 10k players played it there wouldn't be a daily peak of over 20k and that's a peak number not how many players have actually logged in that day.

It's pretty irrelevant how many long in that day, because at any given time there is a stagnant number of players that is way lower than their "5 million purchased" copies. A brand new update just came out and a new event is on the horizon, so numbers are reasonably going to rise.

If some players think they know better, prove the devs wrong, group together and make a game to compete but please don't try to tell a successful company with a successful product because from a personal standpoint you think they are doing it wrong as that's highly laughable.

This is the most dismissive and pointless thing you can say. I guess you don't understand the concept of consumerism, because as a consumer of the product, I have the right to give my feedback and it's up to the devs if they wish to listen to it or not. And guess what? That is literally why the forums exist mate. If your mentality was the prevalent one, then Killers wouldn't be slowly getting buffed as this new update does and forums wouldn't exist at all. But unfortunately, since the forums DO exist, that means BHVR at least wants some kind of feedback.

Overall, they can keep gaining new players if they wish, but retaining players would allow them to make even more money. See, if you knew anything about business, you'd know that if you make compromises among your consumer base, you retain customers, bring back old ones, and still attract new ones. But BHVR would rather just maintain the status quo.

It's a game play if you enjoy it or don't, it's a choice and not everyone likes everything hence how saturated the market is.

You just won the award for the most obvious and pointless comment anyone has ever said. Hope you're proud of yourself.

RepliCant · January 2019

thank u, next

twistedmonkey · January 2019

weirdkid5 said:

Killers being OP isn't what I want at all, don't conflate that. It isn't the balance's fault that, even with top level Killers, top level Survivors can still roflstomp them. Making the Killers better wouldn't make them OP, it would make the game more fair.

It would only make the game fair for the 1-5% can't you see that? So for the vast majority it would make them OP.

weirdkid5 said:

You are using some ass backwards logic right here man, I'm just gonna say it. The reason forums exist is to give feedback and opinions, if you don't like that then you probably need to stop going to forums. You telling me this is being a corporate apologist and I don't deal with those kinds of people. You are exerting your own opinion right now on the forums, making yourself a hypocrite. You are complaining about people complaining, man that's pretty low.

Yes to give feedback but once you go over a certain point you are pushing an agenda, constructive critisism is fine but to keep saying the same thing over and over goes way past that, maybe you should chill and think about why you post the same things over and over, survivor OP killers need buffs!, now thats some far flung rubbish, sorry but a corporate apologist lol, sorry I am simply stating facts which you dont seem to want to hear, I am not stating an opinion by saying its the devs game that is a simple fact, they can chose to listen or not but by posting the same thing over and over about how you personally think the game should be does not change the devs vision, you obvisouly have major issues with the game while saying you love it so who is the hypocrite? I am not staing an opion I am asking why you feel the need to push an agenda? so I ask again why do you think that you know better than the devs of a highly succesful game?

weirdkid5 said:

Small percentage of complainers? That's why their stocks are taking a nosedive right? It goes beyond them "just making money" when people's livlihoods are being ruined, employees being let go because they are trying to cut costs, due to not catering to players opinions anymore. The fact you make this just about money makes me believe I'm talking to a BHVR secondary account right now.

Yes a small percentage, any forum has a small percentage of complainers compared to those who play its common knowlegde, you yourself have to realise you are in the minority,do you know they lost a lawsuit a week or so ago and closed a game down? Deathgarden which is in a really bad state, who is to say any of that is due to DBD? it is their saving grace and a huge revenue of cashflow hence buying it for 16million last year, they are doing well enough to have a chinese company invest in them in October, so do you personally know they cut staff on the DBD team? I'd wager they did not it was for the other less successful games which is what companies do as one product cant sustain everything else indefinately its economics 101.

weirdkid5 said:

No, I'm not enjoying as much because the game is too easy. This is one of my favorite games of all time, and I'll play it as much as I want. The game has clearly become something different overtime, with the devs catering to the lowest common denominator in order to cash in.

Ultimately, whether this game dies or not isn't my point. My point is that I will continue to speak on this junk regardless if it will ever be changed, so I'd advise just ignoring me if you don't like my posts.

Well thats on you, its a choice you make to play as it is for everyone but you obviously are burned out and maybe you are in the 1-5% of players, games do become easier over time but that not down to just balance, its down to the individuals you are playing and how easy it is to get into your rank bracket, is it easy or are you simply better than most? catering to your personal needs would then break the game for the majority, do you thin kthat is right? yes they could seperate the skill levels but what if like the 20-16 zone people then complain they cant find games? or they play the same people over and over is that fun? they concentrate on the MAJORITY of players, you may not like it but any game such as this will do the same where all the players are lumped into one place.

weirdkid5 said:

It's pretty irrelevant how many long in that day, because at any given time there is a stagnant number of players that is way lower than their "5 million purchased" copies. A brand new update just came out and a new event is on the horizon, so numbers are reasonably going to rise.

Why is irrelevant? because it debunks your 10k a day false stat? look at every game out there and see how many players they sustain, even the biggest games lose most of thier players as many dont stick around for hundreds of hours, they just had the largest aount of peak players ever at 63k a couple of months back, the game has been growing steadily and like any new content always does this, take Fortnite they release events all the time to keep things fresh do you think DBD should be any differrent? CS:GO peaked at 620k but has 20-50million buyers I think thats all that needs to be said on that.

weirdkid5 said:

This is the most dismissive and pointless thing you can say. I guess you don't understand the concept of consumerism, because as a consumer of the product, I have the right to give my feedback and it's up to the devs if they wish to listen to it or not. And guess what? That is literally why the forums exist mate. If your mentality was the prevalent one, then Killers wouldn't be slowly getting buffed as this new update does and forums wouldn't exist at all. But unfortunately, since the forums DO exist, that means BHVR at least wants some kind of feedback.

Overall, they can keep gaining new players if they wish, but retaining players would allow them to make even more money. See, if you knew anything about business, you'd know that if you make compromises among your consumer base, you retain customers, bring back old ones, and still attract new ones. But BHVR would rather just maintain the status quo.

Actually it is not when an agenda is being pushed, you are by no means trying to make the game better for the majority but for yourself which is wrong, while I have pushed for killer buffs myself I do it to make certain ones have a fairer chance to balance them agaisnt the majoirty of the playerbase, if you cant handle how it is thats on you but dont think you have the moral high ground in any debate when your personal agenda is more important than the majority of players.

Again most games will go for new and exisiting players, exisiting ones do not bring in the revenue of the puschases so balance is between them all in a game such as DBD, they will never get it perfect but to be so agry at them, calling the game junk goes beyond and shows more personal issues maybe underlying, its a game get over it, in the grand scheme of things there are thousands of others the only way to show a company they are wrong is to not play or purchase anything which seems you are failing to do by playing at least and the vast majority also disagree with your points as they play and enjoy keeping the growth the game has had.

weirdkid5 said:

You just won the award for the most obvious and pointless comment anyone has ever said. Hope you're proud of yourself.

Yes it is such a simple and obvious concept but everything you write with seems to say you dont grasp it, what does that say about yourself?

weirdkid5 · January 2019

@twistedmonkey said:
weirdkid5 said:

Killers being OP isn't what I want at all, don't conflate that. It isn't the balance's fault that, even with top level Killers, top level Survivors can still roflstomp them. Making the Killers better wouldn't make them OP, it would make the game more fair.

It would only make the game fair for the 1-5% can't you see that? So for the vast majority it would make them OP.

Killers make up about 20% of the population, so your percentages are way off. Given the game is a 4v1, that means 80% are Survivors and 20% are Killers. People need to realize that not each Survivor should be equal to the Killer.

weirdkid5 said:

You are using some ass backwards logic right here man, I'm just gonna say it. The reason forums exist is to give feedback and opinions, if you don't like that then you probably need to stop going to forums. You telling me this is being a corporate apologist and I don't deal with those kinds of people. You are exerting your own opinion right now on the forums, making yourself a hypocrite. You are complaining about people complaining, man that's pretty low.

Yes to give feedback but once you go over a certain point you are pushing an agenda, constructive critisism is fine but to keep saying the same thing over and over goes way past that, maybe you should chill and think about why you post the same things over and over, survivor OP killers need buffs!, now thats some far flung rubbish, sorry but a corporate apologist lol, sorry I am simply stating facts which you dont seem to want to hear, I am not stating an opinion by saying its the devs game that is a simple fact, they can chose to listen or not but by posting the same thing over and over about how you personally think the game should be does not change the devs vision, you obvisouly have major issues with the game while saying you love it so who is the hypocrite? I am not staing an opion I am asking why you feel the need to push an agenda? so I ask again why do you think that you know better than the devs of a highly succesful game?

Pushing an agenda? You mean like the corporate agenda you keep pushing? The "it makes the cash so keep doing it" agenda? Please. I can have issues with something and still love it. The two are not mutually exclusive and the fact you can't grasp this concept baffles me. Push an agenda? I'm just giving feedback bro. You're taking what I'm saying super out of proportion. It doesn't matter to me what the rest of the community wants, this is why we have opinions and forums, for everyone to give their opinion. And in my opinion, the game is extremely unfun for most Killer players. Funny you mention saying the same thing over and over again.

weirdkid5 said:

Small percentage of complainers? That's why their stocks are taking a nosedive right? It goes beyond them "just making money" when people's livlihoods are being ruined, employees being let go because they are trying to cut costs, due to not catering to players opinions anymore. The fact you make this just about money makes me believe I'm talking to a BHVR secondary account right now.

Yes a small percentage, any forum has a small percentage of complainers compared to those who play its common knowlegde, you yourself have to realise you are in the minority,do you know they lost a lawsuit a week or so ago and closed a game down? Deathgarden which is in a really bad state, who is to say any of that is due to DBD? it is their saving grace and a huge revenue of cashflow hence buying it for 16million last year, they are doing well enough to have a chinese company invest in them in October, so do you personally know they cut staff on the DBD team? I'd wager they did not it was for the other less successful games which is what companies do as one product cant sustain everything else indefinately its economics 101.

Doing well enough to have a Chinese company invest in them? If a company has to get bought by a Chinese company, usually they are tanking, not because they are successful. These companies buy out low costs studios and churn them out for maximum profit. They need to be bought by a Chinese company because they are likely broke from breaking from Starbreeze and are unable to make up the loss with the in-game purchases.

And one product can sustain indefinitely, or at least an extremely long time. Look at TF2, a game that came out over a decade ago and still has over 100k active players, and still gains more every day. This is because the game eventually went community based, they listened to feedback, put in community weapons, requests, and maps, and it made the game flourish.

weirdkid5 said:

No, I'm not enjoying as much because the game is too easy. This is one of my favorite games of all time, and I'll play it as much as I want. The game has clearly become something different overtime, with the devs catering to the lowest common denominator in order to cash in.

Ultimately, whether this game dies or not isn't my point. My point is that I will continue to speak on this junk regardless if it will ever be changed, so I'd advise just ignoring me if you don't like my posts.

Well thats on you, its a choice you make to play as it is for everyone but you obviously are burned out and maybe you are in the 1-5% of players, games do become easier over time but that not down to just balance, its down to the individuals you are playing and how easy it is to get into your rank bracket, is it easy or are you simply better than most? catering to your personal needs would then break the game for the majority, do you thin kthat is right? yes they could seperate the skill levels but what if like the 20-16 zone people then complain they cant find games? or they play the same people over and over is that fun? they concentrate on the MAJORITY of players, you may not like it but any game such as this will do the same where all the players are lumped into one place.

Again, Killers make up 20% of the population and there are still a good number of Survivor players that agree with me. I can direct you to a few Discord groups for a couple hundred of them. I have no issues facing the same people over and over as long as my matches don't take 20 minutes to find. I play Overwatch and face the same people plenty of times, this is an irrelevant "issue" for me. The ranking system and balance are two completely separate issues. The ranking system will always be flawed if the balance is flawed. You can't just neglect 20% of your playerbase. The only reason Killers are still in this game is because most Survivors are incapable of playing without perks like DS and SC (this is a fact based on BHVR stats, 80% of Survivors use SC). If the game was properly balanced, SC would get nerfed from pickrate alone.

weirdkid5 said:

It's pretty irrelevant how many long in
that day, because at any given time there is a stagnant number of
players that is way lower than their "5 million purchased" copies. A
brand new update just came out and a new event is on the horizon, so
numbers are reasonably going to rise.

Why is irrelevant? because it debunks your 10k a day false stat? look at every game out there and see how many players they sustain, even the biggest games lose most of thier players as many dont stick around for hundreds of hours, they just had the largest aount of peak players ever at 63k a couple of months back, the game has been growing steadily and like any new content always does this, take Fortnite they release events all the time to keep things fresh do you think DBD should be any differrent? CS:GO peaked at 620k but has 20-50million buyers I think thats all that needs to be said on that.

Except it doesn't debunk anything, because many of these numbers are already conflated. The 63k peak was during a month that had a FREE WEEKEND, so obviously many players are going to log in. Also copies that were sold for free on either PS4 or Xbox One count towards the 5 million figure. Fortnite releases new content, but also continuously gains new players, and is a free game. DbD, outside of free events or seasonal events, has a hard time maintaining a playerbase beyond 10-15k. This is why they churn out so many events now, to artificially pad playtime and incentives players to not miss out on exclusive content.

weirdkid5 said:

This is the most dismissive and pointless thing you can say. I guess you don't understand the concept of consumerism, because as a consumer of the product, I have the right to give my feedback and it's up to the devs if they wish to listen to it or not. And guess what? That is literally why the forums exist mate. If your mentality was the prevalent one, then Killers wouldn't be slowly getting buffed as this new update does and forums wouldn't exist at all. But unfortunately, since the forums DO exist, that means BHVR at least wants some kind of feedback.

Overall, they can keep gaining new players if they wish, but retaining players would allow them to make even more money. See, if you knew anything about business, you'd know that if you make compromises among your consumer base, you retain customers, bring back old ones, and still attract new ones. But BHVR would rather just maintain the status quo.

Actually it is not when an agenda is being pushed, you are by no means trying to make the game better for the majority but for yourself which is wrong, while I have pushed for killer buffs myself I do it to make certain ones have a fairer chance to balance them agaisnt the majoirty of the playerbase, if you cant handle how it is thats on you but dont think you have the moral high ground in any debate when your personal agenda is more important than the majority of players.

This is the point of forums, to give your personal opinion. And in my personal opinion, the game is terrible for Killers. Making the Killers better WOULD be better for the game overall because it would bring the challenge back to the Survivor side. When Survivors have to resort to trolling to get their fun, it's because they are too powerful for the Killer to reasonably do anything against.

Again most games will go for new and exisiting players, exisiting ones do not bring in the revenue of the puschases so balance is between them all in a game such as DBD, they will never get it perfect but to be so agry at them, calling the game junk goes beyond and shows more personal issues maybe underlying, its a game get over it, in the grand scheme of things there are thousands of others the only way to show a company they are wrong is to not play or purchase anything which seems you are failing to do by playing at least and the vast majority also disagree with your points as they play and enjoy keeping the growth the game has had.

Except games like Overwatch, Siege and Warframe, which greatly reward returning players with cosmetics, proper ranking systems, and new skins that warrant loot box purchases, daily login bonuses etc.. This is how Overwatch makes most of its money, not through new purchases. Playing doesn't give them money, I stopped giving money to BHVR back when Clown was released. Warframe ONLY makes money through Platinum purchases, and you can earn Platinum in-game without buying it. This is because Digital Extremes prioritizes player feedback over making money, and because of this, they are HUGELY successful, the most successful free-to-play ever made.

The vast majority disagree with me because the vast majority can't be bothered to actually use some damn skill in this game, and BHVR enables that behavior with their constant negligence of SWF and genrush.

weirdkid5 said:

You just won the award for the most obvious and pointless comment anyone has ever said. Hope you're proud of yourself.

Yes it is such a simple and obvious concept but everything you write with seems to say you dont grasp it, what does that say about yourself?

I think it says that you have to visually reaffirm the things you believe in because you are delusional.

twistedmonkey · January 2019

@weirdkid5 said:

Killers make up about 20% of the population, so your percentages are way off. Given the game is a 4v1, that means 80% are Survivors and 20% are Killers. People need to realize that not each Survivor should be equal to the Killer.

Do you understaand percentages? its not about the 80%/20% ratio, I dont know what to say when you wite such things, let me spell it out the 1-5% are top players, say there were 10k survivors in total playing so that is 100 to 500 players they balance on leaving the other 9500 at a disadvantage.

weirdkid5 said:

Pushing an agenda? You mean like the corporate agenda you keep pushing? The "it makes the cash so keep doing it" agenda? Please. I can have issues with something and still love it. The two are not mutually exclusive and the fact you can't grasp this concept baffles me. Push an agenda? I'm just giving feedback bro. You're taking what I'm saying super out of proportion. It doesn't matter to me what the rest of the community wants, this is why we have opinions and forums, for everyone to give their opinion. And in my opinion, the game is extremely unfun for most Killer players. Funny you mention saying the same thing over and over again.

Seriously what are you on about? do you beleive what you write? an agenda is something someone keeps pushing regardless if it will ever change just because they that is all they want, saying I am a corporate aplogist again is really laughable I am just saying how it is in the business world and I accept it, I am not one who goes around ignoring simple facts, hating yet loving a game calling it junk, thats just sad, really sad.

To say the game is unfun for MOST killer players, please, send me the actual figures of how many think that way otherwise its a fictional number you want to beleive as it suits what you think, think about it if that were the case you would see thousands more stating their opinion, the fact that the MAJORITY dont tells you they are fine or accept how it is.

weirdkid5 said:

And one product can sustain indefinitely, or at least an extremely long time. Look at TF2, a game that came out over a decade ago and still has over 100k active players, and still gains more every day. This is because the game eventually went community based, they listened to feedback, put in community weapons, requests, and maps, and it made the game flourish.

Yes like CS:GO, DOTA etc all valve games they pushed, you miss the actual reasons these games do well, one they are free or cheap, two they are one of the best at what they do, three they keep adding content, now look at DBD and tell me they are not similar in terms of those games in what they do? it is just that DBD is more of a niche product.

weirdkid5 said:

Again, Killers make up 20% of the population and there are still a good number of Survivor players that agree with me. I can direct you to a few Discord groups for a couple hundred of them. I have no issues facing the same people over and over as long as my matches don't take 20 minutes to find. I play Overwatch and face the same people plenty of times, this is an irrelevant "issue" for me. The ranking system and balance are two completely separate issues. The ranking system will always be flawed if the balance is flawed. You can't just neglect 20% of your playerbase. The only reason Killers are still in this game is because most Survivors are incapable of playing without perks like DS and SC (this is a fact based on BHVR stats, 80% of Survivors use SC). If the game was properly balanced, SC would get nerfed from pickrate alone.

Yes killers make up 20% of the population but the whole issue is in this thread, I may agree with some of the things you say but I dont agree to them all, some will also have the same views with myself, so take you figures a couple of hundred of them, no think about the owners of the game and how many play daily/weekly, DBD when it was around 18k average has over 250k players log in each month so it will be more now, so lets go off 500k, 20% of that is 100k so your couple of hundred is the minority statistically speaking.

Perks are irrelevant and some do need balanced and I beleive DS should be removed but thats not what this thread is about, its about how people play the game and hwo it affects the majority of players not just the ones who gen rush, if you take stats killer average more kills than escapes, the last figures the devs shown were each killer had between 55-60% kill rate sodoes that mean killers are OP? not in the slightest but it means the game is almost at the 50/50 mark or close enough.

weirdkid5 said:

Except it doesn't debunk anything, because many of these numbers are already conflated. The 63k peak was during a month that had a FREE WEEKEND, so obviously many players are going to log in. Also copies that were sold for free on either PS4 or Xbox One count towards the 5 million figure. Fortnite releases new content, but also continuously gains new players, and is a free game. DbD, outside of free events or seasonal events, has a hard time maintaining a playerbase beyond 10-15k. This is why they churn out so many events now, to artificially pad playtime and incentives players to not miss out on exclusive content.

Of course it does, the 5 million figure is for Steam only not console, the stats I say are for Steam only not console so there are many more to add if you want to bring them into it, DBD releases new free content you can earn through playing, new DLC to purchase where as fortnite sells skins and faster XP rates etc, both have a business model but they differ that is all, DBD has peaked below 20k ave per month since may 2017, come back when you research figures a little better.

weirdkid5 said:

This is the point of forums, to give your personal opinion. And in my personal opinion, the game is terrible for Killers. Making the Killers better WOULD be better for the game overall because it would bring the challenge back to the Survivor side. When Survivors have to resort to trolling to get their fun, it's because they are too powerful for the Killer to reasonably do anything against.

That may be so but in many people's opinion the game is terrible for survivors, making the killer batter WOULD be better for how you want to play that is all, it does not mean it is better for the overall game and the vast majority of players, this is what I mean about an agenda, you think your way is infallable by how you write, its fine to have an opinion but that shouldn't be pushed to an extent where the game is junk if they do not do it.

I think some killers need buffs, I think some maps need reworked, I think some perks need reworked and some removed but I dont go hating on the forums and calling a game I like junk if they dont do it, thats just childish, I give my feedback and if they see it and like it then so be it.

weirdkid5 said:

Except games like Overwatch, Siege and Warframe, which greatly reward returning players with cosmetics, proper ranking systems, and new skins that warrant loot box purchases, daily login bonuses etc.. This is how Overwatch makes most of its money, not through new purchases. Playing doesn't give them money, I stopped giving money to BHVR back when Clown was released. Warframe ONLY makes money through Platinum purchases, and you can earn Platinum in-game without buying it. This is because Digital Extremes prioritizes player feedback over making money, and because of this, they are HUGELY successful, the most successful free-to-play ever made.

The vast majority disagree with me because the vast majority can't be bothered to actually use some damn skill in this game, and BHVR enables that behavior with their constant negligence of SWF and genrush.

You cannot compare those games to DBD, those games have set powers roles and are equal pair ups, they also have matchmaking to seperate the skill levels, warframe is F2P, they sell items and you gain them in game again much like DBD just a different bussiness model, apart from licensed killers you can earn every other one via play time, you also have the shirne which for the most part has rubbish on it but it still allows players to get things for free by playing.

weirdkid5 said:

I think it says that you have to visually reaffirm the things you believe in because you are delusional.

I think you may be talking about yourself with that statement, dellussional to the degree where you think your opinion is THE only one that counts, the devs have made a game which blew away every expectation they had, people like the game, people play the game, they are making goodmoney off the game and guess what, they make it how they want too and so far their decision have been correct as it has worked, so the highly vocal minorities such as yourself mean very little in the grand scheme of things, ponder that the next time you write the same things over and over as its akin to a child not getting their way and thinking crying till they do will work.

weirdkid5 · January 2019

@twistedmonkey said:

@weirdkid5 said:

Killers make up about 20% of the population, so your percentages are way off. Given the game is a 4v1, that means 80% are Survivors and 20% are Killers. People need to realize that not each Survivor should be equal to the Killer.

Do you understaand percentages? its not about the 80%/20% ratio, I dont know what to say when you wite such things, let me spell it out the 1-5% are top players, say there were 10k survivors in total playing so that is 100 to 500 players they balance on leaving the other 9500 at a disadvantage.

That's how a game's balanced works. Siege top players make up less than 1% but still decide the balance for the rest of the players.

weirdkid5 said:

Pushing an agenda? You mean like the corporate agenda you keep pushing? The "it makes the cash so keep doing it" agenda? Please. I can have issues with something and still love it. The two are not mutually exclusive and the fact you can't grasp this concept baffles me. Push an agenda? I'm just giving feedback bro. You're taking what I'm saying super out of proportion. It doesn't matter to me what the rest of the community wants, this is why we have opinions and forums, for everyone to give their opinion. And in my opinion, the game is extremely unfun for most Killer players. Funny you mention saying the same thing over and over again.

Seriously what are you on about? do you beleive what you write? an agenda is something someone keeps pushing regardless if it will ever change just because they that is all they want, saying I am a corporate aplogist again is really laughable I am just saying how it is in the business world and I accept it, I am not one who goes around ignoring simple facts, hating yet loving a game calling it junk, thats just sad, really sad.

To say the game is unfun for MOST killer players, please, send me the actual figures of how many think that way otherwise its a fictional number you want to beleive as it suits what you think, think about it if that were the case you would see thousands more stating their opinion, the fact that the MAJORITY dont tells you they are fine or accept how it is.

The business world and mentality is a detriment to gaming overall, the slow fall of the big 3 titans is evidence enough of that, where as companies like CD Projekt Red gain many new fans for their transparency and willingness to extend aspects of the game players want.

weirdkid5 said:

And one product can sustain indefinitely, or at least an extremely long time. Look at TF2, a game that came out over a decade ago and still has over 100k active players, and still gains more every day. This is because the game eventually went community based, they listened to feedback, put in community weapons, requests, and maps, and it made the game flourish.

Yes like CS:GO, DOTA etc all valve games they pushed, you miss the actual reasons these games do well, one they are free or cheap, two they are one of the best at what they do, three they keep adding content, now look at DBD and tell me they are not similar in terms of those games in what they do? it is just that DBD is more of a niche product.

They also are reasonably balanced, whereas DbD is not.

weirdkid5 said:

Again, Killers make up 20% of the population and there are still a good number of Survivor players that agree with me. I can direct you to a few Discord groups for a couple hundred of them. I have no issues facing the same people over and over as long as my matches don't take 20 minutes to find. I play Overwatch and face the same people plenty of times, this is an irrelevant "issue" for me. The ranking system and balance are two completely separate issues. The ranking system will always be flawed if the balance is flawed. You can't just neglect 20% of your playerbase. The only reason Killers are still in this game is because most Survivors are incapable of playing without perks like DS and SC (this is a fact based on BHVR stats, 80% of Survivors use SC). If the game was properly balanced, SC would get nerfed from pickrate alone.

Yes killers make up 20% of the population but the whole issue is in this thread, I may agree with some of the things you say but I dont agree to them all, some will also have the same views with myself, so take you figures a couple of hundred of them, no think about the owners of the game and how many play daily/weekly, DBD when it was around 18k average has over 250k players log in each month so it will be more now, so lets go off 500k, 20% of that is 100k so your couple of hundred is the minority statistically speaking.

These percentages you made are nothing more than speculation.

Perks are irrelevant and some do need balanced and I beleive DS should be removed but thats not what this thread is about, its about how people play the game and hwo it affects the majority of players not just the ones who gen rush, if you take stats killer average more kills than escapes, the last figures the devs shown were each killer had between 55-60% kill rate sodoes that mean killers are OP? not in the slightest but it means the game is almost at the 50/50 mark or close enough.

These kill stats also account for disconnects, rage quits, and stupid survivors that throw themselves at camping Killers instead of just leaving. That stat would be much lower if these aspects were not taken into consideration.

weirdkid5 said:

Except it doesn't debunk anything, because many of these numbers are already conflated. The 63k peak was during a month that had a FREE WEEKEND, so obviously many players are going to log in. Also copies that were sold for free on either PS4 or Xbox One count towards the 5 million figure. Fortnite releases new content, but also continuously gains new players, and is a free game. DbD, outside of free events or seasonal events, has a hard time maintaining a playerbase beyond 10-15k. This is why they churn out so many events now, to artificially pad playtime and incentives players to not miss out on exclusive content.

Of course it does, the 5 million figure is for Steam only not console, the stats I say are for Steam only not console so there are many more to add if you want to bring them into it, DBD releases new free content you can earn through playing, new DLC to purchase where as fortnite sells skins and faster XP rates etc, both have a business model but they differ that is all, DBD has peaked below 20k ave per month since may 2017, come back when you research figures a little better.

The 5 million goald DOES account for consoles sales if I'm not mistaken. The game has sold 5 million Wordlwide, this includes all platforms. Fortnite you can also earn through playing, you can earn VBucks in Save the World as well as from the Battle Pass, making it so you never need to spend a dime on Fortnite outside of buying Save the World, which is cheaper than Dead by Daylight. Also not all cosmetics can be bought with Shards, some are auric cells only.

weirdkid5 said:

This is the point of forums, to give your personal opinion. And in my personal opinion, the game is terrible for Killers. Making the Killers better WOULD be better for the game overall because it would bring the challenge back to the Survivor side. When Survivors have to resort to trolling to get their fun, it's because they are too powerful for the Killer to reasonably do anything against.

That may be so but in many people's opinion the game is terrible for survivors, making the killer batter WOULD be better for how you want to play that is all, it does not mean it is better for the overall game and the vast majority of players, this is what I mean about an agenda, you think your way is infallable by how you write, its fine to have an opinion but that shouldn't be pushed to an extent where the game is junk if they do not do it.

More challenge is always better for any video game. If a game has no challenge then players have no incentive to keep playing.

I think some killers need buffs, I think some maps need reworked, I think some perks need reworked and some removed but I dont go hating on the forums and calling a game I like junk if they dont do it, thats just childish, I give my feedback and if they see it and like it then so be it.

I never called the game junk. I said the balance is crap, the game itself is still an enjoyable experience for the most part. It is possible to want both for a video game.

weirdkid5 said:

Except games like Overwatch, Siege and Warframe, which greatly reward returning players with cosmetics, proper ranking systems, and new skins that warrant loot box purchases, daily login bonuses etc.. This is how Overwatch makes most of its money, not through new purchases. Playing doesn't give them money, I stopped giving money to BHVR back when Clown was released. Warframe ONLY makes money through Platinum purchases, and you can earn Platinum in-game without buying it. This is because Digital Extremes prioritizes player feedback over making money, and because of this, they are HUGELY successful, the most successful free-to-play ever made.

The vast majority disagree with me because the vast majority can't be bothered to actually use some damn skill in this game, and BHVR enables that behavior with their constant negligence of SWF and genrush.

You cannot compare those games to DBD, those games have set powers roles and are equal pair ups, they also have matchmaking to seperate the skill levels, warframe is F2P, they sell items and you gain them in game again much like DBD just a different bussiness model, apart from licensed killers you can earn every other one via play time, you also have the shirne which for the most part has rubbish on it but it still allows players to get things for free by playing.

All of these aspects can be added into DbD as well. Killers already have set powers, the game just needs better matchmaking and to make the 4 Survivors equal to the 1 Killer rather than having each Survivor be equal to him.

weirdkid5 said:

I think it says that you have to visually reaffirm the things you believe in because you are delusional.

I think you may be talking about yourself with that statement, dellussional to the degree where you think your opinion is THE only one that counts, the devs have made a game which blew away every expectation they had, people like the game, people play the game, they are making goodmoney off the game and guess what, they make it how they want too and so far their decision have been correct as it has worked, so the highly vocal minorities such as yourself mean very little in the grand scheme of things, ponder that the next time you write the same things over and over as its akin to a child not getting their way and thinking crying till they do will work.

I never said mine was the only one that counts, but it's the only one that counts for ME, because these are the things I want in the game. This has nothing to do with an "agenda," you are just laying down a typically negative term in order to downplay my arguments. If they are making good money off the game, they wouldn't need to sell themselves to a Chinese monetization company. Players are actually beginning to rise because of all the balancing that has been done in favor of Killers, bringing back old Killer players as well as old Survivor players. This is why the game's population has been increasing slowly since June of 2018, because the devs are (for the most part) are nerfing Survivors and buffing Killers.

So, it's already begun. I'm not sure why you act like it'll kill the game when it's making the game grow.

twistedmonkey · January 2019

weirdkid5 said:

That's how a game's balanced works. Siege top players make up less than 1% but still decide the balance for the rest of the players.

The business world and mentality is a detriment to gaming overall, the slow fall of the big 3 titans is evidence enough of that, where as companies like CD Projekt Red gain many new fans for their transparency and willingness to extend aspects of the game players want.

They also are reasonably balanced, whereas DbD is not.

These percentages you made are nothing more than speculation.

These kill stats also account for disconnects, rage quits, and stupid survivors that throw themselves at camping Killers instead of just leaving. That stat would be much lower if these aspects were not taken into consideration.

The 5 million goald DOES account for consoles sales if I'm not mistaken. The game has sold 5 million Wordlwide, this includes all platforms. Fortnite you can also earn through playing, you can earn VBucks in Save the World as well as from the Battle Pass, making it so you never need to spend a dime on Fortnite outside of buying Save the World, which is cheaper than Dead by Daylight. Also not all cosmetics can be bought with Shards, some are auric cells only.

More challenge is always better for any video game. If a game has no challenge then players have no incentive to keep playing.

I never called the game junk. I said the balance is crap, the game itself is still an enjoyable experience for the most part. It is possible to want both for a video game.

All of these aspects can be added into DbD as well. Killers already have set powers, the game just needs better matchmaking and to make the 4 Survivors equal to the 1 Killer rather than having each Survivor be equal to him.

I never said mine was the only one that counts, but it's the only one that counts for ME, because these are the things I want in the game. This has nothing to do with an "agenda," you are just laying down a typically negative term in order to downplay my arguments. If they are making good money off the game, they wouldn't need to sell themselves to a Chinese monetization company. Players are actually beginning to rise because of all the balancing that has been done in favor of Killers, bringing back old Killer players as well as old Survivor players. This is why the game's population has been increasing slowly since June of 2018, because the devs are (for the most part) are nerfing Survivors and buffing Killers.

So, it's already begun. I'm not sure why you act like it'll kill the game when it's making the game grow.

You keep bringing the likes of siege balancing into this game, it has a proper matchmaking system where the top players never meet the rest, it is also more dependant on skill than dbd where your aim and tactics determine how well you do just like in any fps game, they are not comparable the comparable ones for example would be f13th, last year, anything that is isometrical.

The detriment of the big three are spouting out the same rubbish year after year, if they made better games no one would actually care and throw money at them, there games seem to lose players stupidly quick hence they rehash and throw a new one out, dbd has been growing which tends to say the opposite they are doing it right.

Yes they are reasonably balanced but it is easier when each side has equal players, each time dbd adds a new killer and power and 6 perks it gets harder thats the problem with this games balance is always on a knife edge one change can make something weak or OP, huntress hatchets change a few months back which was reverted and the legion ptb idea which got scrapped are two examples.

The 250k that's was off steamdb but the 500k is myself being conservative with the figure but its not hard to beleive after all the devs just celebrated a couple of months back at the halloween event when the had 1million players online within that period.

Yes and they also account for killers dcing, throwing games to derank etc both sides are just as bad but one killer dcing means 4 escape so you would need a dc each game to compensate that.

No that sales figure comes from the steam stat page, those only show the sales on steam, so yes you are mistaken. Why do you keep going on about fortnite? So what they have different business models! Fortnite is a cashcow it is the biggest game in the world atm of course they can afford more carrots to lure in the players to spend more as that's all it is.

More challenge yes but it also has to be winnable, each player not only the 1% has to feel like they have a chance each game.

They have a problem with this scenario as like it or not this is not a team game like others unless you play SWF, it's a 1v1v1v1v1 in reality hence it is sold as help others or don't the choice is yours, yes killers need to always be stronger than the survivors but not equal to all 4.

Yes screaming what YOU want over and over regardless if its not what is best for the game is an agenda, it's about you personal and basically saying screw the rest, the ones who give real feedback and gain more respect are civil and look at ways to improve the game balance for both sides, they didn't sell to a Chinese company it's a floating company with shares lol the Chinese company bought some as an investment, do you know how businesses work?

The game has been growing since June not due to killer buffs as survivors have had just as many, it is to so with the devs taking ober the game, adding content frequently, more events, overall people enjoying the game to say it's about killer buffs only well that's seeing things through jaded glasses and seeing what you want to see as it fits what you are trying to achieve.

Can Survivor mains say this is perfectly fine?

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