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Bubba being able to double tap survivors through endurance
Does somebody remember how when the anti-camp mechanic was introduced everybody was concerned about Leatherface being able to stil camp and double tap through it, making it even impossible to trade if he knew well where to stand? It was said that Leatherface would not be able to do such thing and yet it's a lie since he is pretty much still able to down the unhooker and the unhooked survivor, let alone the solo survivor if they self-unhook. It's been a year since this mechanic was implemented and it's been not looked into ever since despite it being mentioned that this would not be possible to do for Leatherface.
Edit note: I have found this even easier to do after the buffs he received to his base-kit this year.
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Yea i recall them saying that he wouldnt be able to specificly and that was only supposed to leave deathslinger that could get past hook endurance. But ive seen bubba just cut right through people off the hook anyway lol and they never applied such measures to his addon that lets him infinitely chainsaw so long as he keeps hitting people either. And im surprised they didnt apply anything to instakill myers being able to just facecamp you to death completely with no counter in the entire game.
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I think I recall this being a thing in the PTB where the feature was released? I remember twitch streamers testing the changes and something like that being a thing, but it doesn't seem to be working now. While playing Leatherface I've downed an unlucky unhooker and the guy getting unhooked in a single saw without using any add-ons. It probably shouldn't work that way
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Whose account is getting "jailed" for criticism? I see people on this forum who have criticized the devs for years without punishment. Your account won't get "jailed" unless you break the forum rules.
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it is still in his kit. the borrow time makes endurence make his chainsaw go through survivors and it persists for 1 second. so in essence, if you just sit near his chainsaw, he can't double hit you. a silly change. survivor just don't know how to abuse it.
i think unhook system is suppose to prevent hook regression if the killer forces hook regression by camping. not necessarily prevent survivor from going down after being unhooked. The anti-tunnel borrow time is very low duration but it is suppose allow you to get to a pallet loop or a window. if duration of borrow time was longer… like 60 seconds than it would make less attractive to tunnel off-hook as killer because chase would be harder. I am sure BVHR will eventually buff anti-tunnel borrow time system and anti-camp system because survivor will likely continue to complain that tunneling is too strong, camping is too strong and that survivor don't want to equip anti-tunnel and anti-camp perks. they'd prefer them base-kit.
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In your opinion, do you believe those anti-camp/tunnel should not be base-kit? If killers can tunnel or camp without needing perks, doesn’t it makes sense that anti-tunnel or anti-camp mechanics would be base-kit for survivors too? Relying on specific perks (some of which are not free) to counter something the other side can do freely feels difficult for me personally to justify.
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that question is like asking whether survivors should be able to efficiently do gens uninterrupted across the map regardless of how well the killer performs in chase. rushing gens in mild term. it would be me asking you whether killer should have any form of generator regression or base-kit game delay for successfully downing survivors.
in my opinion, i think dbd killer games for survivor are best when the game varies from game to game. my thought is that losing to exact same strategy or gameplan is dull. Tunneling should be the right play in some games but current iteration of tunneling is that it is becoming the only play for killer. there is some hints of like slugging here and there being a good play. to some regards, there is some merit to tactical slugging but at the same time, the gameplay of slugging for killer is too drawn out for killer in my opinion. for that reason, slugging as killer is not quite as fun as it should be. To go back to the question, i do not think tunneling overall is a problem but i would prefer if the game for killer had varied ways to win a team competitively speaking. In other words, i would like that spreading hooks in some cases is viable way to win, tunneling is sometimes the viable to win and slugging is sometimes a viable way to win. when one strategy becomes over-dominate, there is some reason to believe that said strategy needs adjustment to be worse. this applies for strategy that are less common/less effective on killer. for example 3 gen used to be dominated strategy before however it is fallen out of favor so perhaps defensive strategies need a bit of buff. Strategies that are too strong should be worse and strategy that become too ineffective should be buffed until all strategies are roughly even.
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And my dog's name is MIni. What does that have to do with something that is permanently in the base game? Stick to the topic of discussion please.
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This is not what we are talking about.
Post edited by Jacknalls_Paw on3 -
It does require a bit of timing on Bubba’s end, but yea it’s entirely possible.
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If that's so it might be very easy to time because when I got a Leatherface daily I tried to do it myself out of curiosity and I did it without any effort honestly. Twice actually. In my opinion it needs to be looked into and should work like Plague's red vomit that once you're hit you can't get hit with the same cast.
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You could record it and report it as a bug. Since the devs were adamant Leatherface would not be able to do this they should go ahead and fix the issue.
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I completely agree that tunneling shouldn’t be as viable as it is, and it’s primarily on the devs for making tunneling the most efficient way to play killer. That said, individuals who tunnel still have a choice in how they play. Im unsure what you mean when comparing gens to tunneling, as there is no reliable way to counter tunneling without specific perks, whereas killers can stop gen progress without needing a particular perk. While perks help slow gens down significantly, killers can still kick gens without bringing a gen regression perk or a perk to be able to damage gens. I don’t think there’s anything in the game that survivors can do base-kit that killers can’t counter base-kit. When you mention gens not being affected by a good chase, I actually disagree. Good chases lead to downs which lead to hooks which force people off gens. It’s also why slugging can be so effective at adding pressure because you get enough people down or hooked then that stops gen progression because people have to unhook, heal, etc.
But thank you for explaining your perspective, and why you don’t agree with base-kit anti-tunnel. Even if we disagree I appreciate your opinion and time.
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That's a cute dog name!
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The point of my post actually was the critcism of having to bring perks to counter something the other "side" doesn't need perks for. That there is nothing survivors can do base-kit, without a perk that killers can't counter base-kit without a perk.
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Back then bubba could multi hit an unhooked survivor within a .5 sec vulnerability window but the devs made changes that bubba chainsaw can't hit a survivor again within 2 seconds with the speedboost also survivors get its much better then before.
Currently Bubba is just an instant down killer with no map pressure nor slowdown he's a chase and camper pro however Devs confirmed they don't wanna disable chainsaw or slowdown bubba near a hooked since that's all hes got going from him hes not a priority for the next 2 years.
Maybe they could nerf his token regeneration?
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While perks help slow gens down significantly, killers can still kick gens without bringing a gen regression perk or a perk to be able to damage gens.
what, 4 times slower regression? that's going to do exactly nothing vs efficient teams. i think i kick gens like 2 times a game on average. the only time i kick gens is if i bring pop goes weasel+eruption, than i kick gens around 6 times per game.
Im unsure what you mean when comparing gens to tunneling, as there is no reliable way to counter tunneling without specific perks,
Yes there is. it is called being good at the chase. You know…. learning to loop, actually understanding the map and resources available on the map, how to use them. i won't deny that chase perks make the game easier for survivor but i don't think they're required to counter-tunneling. i'll have killer as survivor where they chase me first, hook me, lose 3 gens from first chase. come back tunnel me and than lose last 2 gens. I get left on hook because the soloq team doesn't know to do a proper bodyblock save vs m1 and the entire team escapes. Individually speaking, tunneling is not possible to counter but from team-wide escape perceptive, tunneling is counterable. in some cases… like leatherface tunneling, you won't get saved in the end game because leatherface is too good at tunneling off-hook and no anti-tunnel perks work vs end game.
trickster with main event also double taps pretty hard. sometimes i see trickster's run that cut through knife add-on and just camp all game.
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Hm, I think we may just agree to disagree here. While looping is an effective skill, when a player is being tunneled, the chances of going down quickly are significantly higher, which is why tunneling remains such a prevalent and strong strategy. If countering tunneling was as simple as ‘just loop better,’ there likely wouldn’t be a need for anti-tunneling perks or mechanics in the game, and would indicate that in high MMR where survivors know how to loop consistently that tunneling wouldn’t exist at all.
I also disagree simply due to the difference in effort and skill required between tunneling and surviving tunneling is not comparable. A killer with minimal experience can successfully tunnel, while reaching a point where looping effectively enough to prolong tunneling (not survive because as you stated individually you can’t survivor tunneling) takes a much greater time investment for survivors. If tunneling were difficult to do, it would not be as prevalent or powerful as it is (nurse is a great example of this. Nobody questions her strengths but she has a skill ceiling so many do not play her) Tunneling happens because it is easy and effective, and it’s only effective because it is much more difficult to counter it than it is to apply it. ‘Just loop better’ can be seen as dismissive, much like telling a killer to ‘just kill better.’ It doesn’t address the core of a problem and isn’t a reliable or realistic solution. It’s a bit of an umbrella statement that can be used to justify almost anything.
In any case, I think we may just fundamentally disagree so I think it may be best to end the discussion here. I appreciate you taking the time to give your thoughts, and I wish you well in your future games.
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It indeed was a PTB feature that they silently decided to not go forward with, for whatever reason.
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If countering tunneling was as simple as ‘just loop better,’ there likely wouldn’t be a need for anti-tunneling perks or mechanics in the game, and would indicate that in high MMR where survivors know how to loop consistently that tunneling wouldn’t exist at all.
there is not a need for anti-tunnel perks or chase perks. it is that chase perk make survivors more resilient at tunneling even when they make a mistake/poor play in the chase. To what effectiveness? Varies on the perk to how much of an advantage you get in said chase.
there are player that have like 1vs1'd blight or any killer that you could think for like a 1:30 if not 2 minutes for some of these killers in 1vs1 contests. it is matter of doing these chases in-game. If your able to do these chases in 1vs1's, you are able to do said chase in real games in the 4vs1. at that point, it is rush gens and loop away from teammates. very simple.
I also disagree simply due to the difference in effort and skill required between tunneling and surviving tunneling is not comparable. A killer with minimal experience can successfully tunnel, while reaching a point where looping effectively enough to prolong tunneling (not survive because as you stated individually you can’t survivor tunneling) takes a much greater time investment for survivors
absolutely not. the effort to survive tunneling is same as killer successfully tunneling. it is direct raw display of skill between survivor's ability to outplay ability in question with resources and killer ability to use said ability to get hits. the killer will eventually win a 1vs1 from 4vs1 nature of the game but overall objective for survivor is to delay 4vs1 to finish all 5 gens.
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