Playing fair as a killer feels pointless since the extra 10 seconds on hooks
To clarify, I am a killer main who loves to play the game for fun and try my best to keep the game fun for my opponents. When the change first came out I was happy about it since I thought it would discourage killers from camping and tunneling and I never thought it would have an impact on me since I play fair.
I still play fair even after that change but I have noticed my games have gotten so miserable. After a lot of thinking and analyzing, I realized the issue..
These extra 10 seconds might seem so little at first and won’t make an impact specifically for the killers who play fair but in reality it’s quite the opposite. These 10 seconds are in 2 hook stages, for 4 different survivors.. it’s not just 10 seconds, it’s actually 80 seconds in total. The killers who tunnel and camp and still do it anyway regardless of these 10 seconds, but for the killers who play fair it’s 80 seconds of less pressure and free time to do gens..
I noticed an increase of the situation where the survivors will greed finishing the gen before going for the hook rescue.. but now it can be done without much of a risk thanks for this change.. i admit i’m not the best killer. I used to win a lot and lose sometimes.. but now I feel like I lose most of matches. It could be a skill issue or it’s because this change is giving the survivors too much free time to do gens.
I just hope they can revert it maybe find a better solution to eliminate the boring play-styles but without hurting the fair killers..
what are your thoughts of this?
Comments
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I disagree, I don't think the extra ten seconds has a negative effect on killers who play fair. If anything, if survivors leave their teammates on hook for those extra ten seconds, it's giving fair killers more opportunity to snowball their pressure.
I've said this before in other threads, but the best pressure a killer can get short of a dead survivor is to occupy three survivors at once. One on hook, one in chase, one peeling off for the save. For as long as that rundown is true, generator repair plummets down in efficiency.
If survivors are keeping two on gens while one's on the hook and one's in chase, that means you're still bringing the repair efficiency down to half of what it could be, and you're being given a little more time to get that down and snowball your pressure. If you finish your chase sooner than the survivors on generators expect, and get two hooks at the same time, the team has to scramble to undo that situation and reset— during which time, you're still entering chases and keeping the pressure up, keeping them in a cycle of constantly having to unhook and heal.
It's also still very possible to proxy camp and punish survivors prioritising gens so much, as long as you're aiming to get into a chase with the would-be rescuer or force a trade, instead of forcing the hook stage on the hooked survivor.
I'm not saying you're not struggling at the moment, but if you are, I would strongly suggest it's for other reasons.
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For real, I had so many games were the survivors just hugged gens and still got the save in what feels like the last 5s. It really feals bad when you get nothing to show for it and the survivors get away with both and even get rewarded for their greed.
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I get your point about occupying the 3 survivors and it used to work well.. but the thing is now when they greed gens instead of hooking it kinda feels like trading objectives.. yes their greed might cost them to skip a hook stage but that’s only 1/12 of your objective but in the other end they finish 2/5 of their objective.. it just doesn’t feel fair..
does it make sense? English is not my first language so sorry it my explanation is not very clear..
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The way I see it its more often that extra time would make camping killers time worse than a survivor would hold on a gen right up until the timer is about to go to the next stage, hence actually taking advantage of the extra 10 seconds per stage. Survivors usually rescue way earlier than right at the end of a stage if they can.
Post edited by Aceislife on2 -
It's not about skipping a hook stage, it's about getting other survivors hooked.
The first survivor you hooked might still get saved in time before they progress stages, but if you already have someone else hooked before that happens, you're in a really advantageous position. Even if a generator is completed, the survivors are still worse off than the killer, because the killer has the ability to snowball their advantage really heavily.
Let me put it this way: Killing all four survivors with five gens left is not more of a win than killing all four survivors with no gens left. It doesn't matter how many generators they get done if they still die by the end.
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The 1/5 and 1/12 comparison isn't really accurate though. The first gens are always the easiest and the last gens are the hardest. At the beginning of the game survivors have the most resources and the resources get whittled down over time making it harder to complete gens. As well, some gens are way off in the distance and completing those gens makes it easier for the Killer to patrol the gens that are closer to each other.
I've always played for spreading hooks without camping or tunnelling and I haven't noticed any difference with the extra time. If anything, the hooked survivor being left on the hook has made it a tiny bit easier as that's 10 seconds where I don't have to keep another survivor occupied.
There are two things that come to mind that could be affecting you. The first is that you're at the soft cap or close enough to the soft cap to be matched with people above the soft cap. That can lead to a string of losses. As an example, at 2100 MMR in chess you will win against 99% of players but, if facing a 2400 MMR player, you'll lose 99% of the time. If the 2100 player would be matched only against 2400 and up MMR players because their chess federation wanted a lot more matches and they're weren't any 2100 MMR players around they would lose consistently even though if we were to randomly select players the 2100 player would beat 99% of them.
BHVR is, in this example, the chess federation that wants more matches (lower queue times) as they're a video game company and if they were to force equal matches all the time many players would leave because they would have insufferable queue times (eg at MMR implementation Dowsey, when he played DbD, would get 45 minute queue times).
If a person is at the soft cap then until you're a few hundred points past the soft cap you'll experience a bunch of losses. That's an expected result from imposing a soft cap. Expected of course doesn't mean fun or anything else but that's how it works.
The other possibility is that you're not dropping chase often enough to disrupt gens. As noted above by @jesterkind you have to keep survivors occupied enough that gen efficiency plummets. If you're staying a bit too long in chase maybe the survivors are getting a bit too much time on their hands.
Or maybe it's a combination of the both. Anyway, I hope what I posted was helpful.
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Hence don't hook and slug instead.
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I did notice the change. Survivors can just take forever, or my friends and I can be messing around forever, and look there's still time to save. It translates to more time on gens when we're already complaining that gens are too fast, and gen defence has been nerfed major.
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I don't think it's that big of a deal. It does kind of annoy me that it feels like you can't punish survivors for being tardy anymore but it does have a pretty significant effect against camping killers, so I'm willing to take that sacrifice.
I agree with the sentiment that it's not a huge deal, if you're not camping but it does have an impact either way. It sometimes happened that a survivor would just barely hit second stage when you kept everyone else busy for long enough, that's not really the case anymore.
Maybe it will happen again when people have gotten used to the new hook timers (and as a result will start greeding again) but not right now. Admittedly that happened very rarely so the benefits outweigh the sacrifice by far.
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Neither gens nor hooks should've gotten the 10 seconds increase, imo. Things were fine the way they were.
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These affect the game in completely different ways, why are you even comparing them? Because it's the same time increase?
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10 second hook increase didn't change anything of significance in terms of hook pressure value or reason to play fair. It's too niche to matter.
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It's really the fact that each hook state was increased by 10 seconds and hooks have seen other nerfs over the past year as well. If it was just a 10 second increase, it wouldn't be a problem itself. But hooking has slowly been made riskier and less worth it.
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Out of curiosity, what nerfs are you referring to here? I can't think of any changes hooks went through recently at all, save for the 10 second increase and them respawning after a sacrifice now.
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Felt like they were worth mentioning.
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they are not because they affect game in drastically different and incomparable ways.
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That extra 10 seconds on a hook is rare to even hit out of proxy camping killers, and at that point your already shafting yourself proxy camping that hard.
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I can wrap up a chase quick, hook the survivor and start chasing the another one while one goes for the save. But now they just stick gens and pop them and leisurely go grab the save anyways. Timer increase was ridiculous and unnecessary. Combined with reassurance is brutal. Almost 2 minute hook stages.
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If youve trouble with 10 extra seconds on hook, that hardly ever get used up, its a you issue. Stop looking for bad excuses.
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The extra ten seconds on the hook is the best change they have made in a long time. It should have happened when they made the gens longer. I'm not losing any sleep over camping being made weaker.
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If kill rates go down, then I think reverting back to old hook timer would be justified. If kill rates stay around the target 60%, then probably OK to keep as-is.
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Have you tried not camping?
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