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if slugging is bad
why are there so many mechanics and perks to actively penalise picking survivors up?
Comments
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How often are those mechanics even used? 9 times out of 10 I see killers slugging for no reasons other than to try and secure 4 kills the second the match starts, or simply to make the game as unfun for survivors as they can
10 -
So many mechanics?
You mean like DS, which only activates if you're actively tunneling.
Or I guess you could count flip flop/power struggle, but are we seriously complaining about this combo now?
And...
Wait, that's it. That's literally all that even activates on killer pickup. The horror. Such a massive, exhaustive list that would keep anyone up at night.
9 -
Its not bad
Please keep doing it
0 -
flashlights/sabotage/pallet stuns/a dozen of survivors perks that activates by hooking or unhooking/it’s time consuming
0 -
He said pickup, not hooking. So like 3 things total, and we're having a tantrum. Got it.
2 -
"Fun" and "engaging" gameplay for both sides, of course.
11 -
Enlight us of those many mechanics and perks!
1 -
Hooking a survivor can be countered by these things:
- Pallet Saves
- Flashlights
- Sparklers/Flashbang items
- Sabotaging hooks
And the following perks:
- Boil Over
- Breakout
- Decisive Strike
- Flashbang
- Flip-Flop
- Power Struggle
- Saboteur
Survivors gain benefits directly related to being hooked, or unhooking others with these perks:
- Aftercare
- Babysitter
- Background Player
- Blood Rush
- Borrowed Time
- Breakdown
- Camaraderie
- Dead Hard
- Deliverance
- Kindred
- Off the Record
- Reassurance
- Resurgence
- Second Wind
- Should the Burden (coming soon)
- Slippery Meat
- We'll Make it
On top of that, survivors have things like:
- Basekit BT
- Anti-Face Camp Mechanic
- 70 second hook stages
Lastly, the time it takes to hook a survivor, that is HOOK a survivor, not chase them, not find them, not down them. I'm saying, you have hit the survivor, and they are now on the ground, it takes:
2.7 second wipe animation + 3 second pickup animation + ~10 seconds to find a nearby hook (based on average hook distances) + 1.5 second hooking animation = 17.2 seconds (during which 3 other survivors are getting 51.6 seconds of gen progress on a required 450 seconds of progress (I.E. 11.4% of their objective done again NOT factoring in chase time, finding the survivor, breaking pallets, etc. That is just literally picking up the downed survivor and hooking them which is 8% of the killer's objective, the survivors are able to complete 11.4% of theirs)
Now, how many things counter slugging?
Well there is nothing basekit that does. What about perks?
- Adrenaline (arguable, but i'll include it)
- Boon: Exponential
- No mither (arguable again, but i'll include it)
- Tenacity
- Unbreakable
- We're Gonna Live Forever
Now lets look at perk usages from nightlight:
Hook perks:
- Boil Over - 3.04%
- Breakout - 1.82%
- Decisive Strike - 9.43%
- Flashbang - 3.38%
- Flip-Flop - 1.70%
- Power Struggle - 1.07%
- Saboteur - 2.16%
- Aftercare - 0.54%
- Babysitter - 1.11%
- Background Player - 4.10%
- Blood Rush - 0.48%
- Borrowed Time - 1.61%
- Breakdown - 0.53%
- Camaraderie - 0.14%
- Dead Hard - 10.80%
- Deliverance - 2.86%
- Kindred - 7.99%
- Off the Record - 7.09%
- Reassurance - 1.54%
- Resurgence - 5.43%
- Second Wind - 0.74%
- Should the Burden (coming soon) - 0% (not out yet)
- Slippery Meat - 0.86%
- We'll Make it - 8.20%
Slug Perks:
- Adrenaline - 13.94%
- Boon: Exponential - 1.59%
- No mither - 0.51%
- Tenacity - 1.54%
- Unbreakable - 9.96%
- We're Gonna Live Forever - 3.13%
Totaling all that up, in a given game with 4 survivors, you will see on average, out of 16 possible perks:
- 3 perks related to hooking
- 1 perk related to slugging
That again, doesn't factor in things like items, flashlights, toolboxes, or the basekit bt, or AFC mechanic or any other things.
On top of that, looking at the strength of the perks. If you hook survivors you might have to deal with perks like:
- Decisive Strike
- Dead Hard
- We'll Make It
- Deliverance
- Off the Record
For context, these perks are used in basically every single comp game ever for a reason.
Whereas on the slugging side, perks like:
- Adrenaline are a one time use and only really come in play under specific circumstances
- Boon Exponential is super easy to counter, because you probably can hear the totem if you down a survivor and they are in the range of it
- No mither is a joke of a perk
- Tenacity isn't really a hard counter and often just gets paired with unbreakable really
- Unbreakable is annoying but they can only use it once in a match, so once it is gone, it is gone and you don't have to worry about it anymore. On top of that, at the very least you STILL forced them to spend time recovering and waste time, whereas something like DS actually costs you more time than it costs the survivor
- The only true constant "Counter" is WGLF which has already been nerfed a bit, and is pretty manageable when you stack slugging perks to deal with it. On top of that, its only seen 3.13% of the time, so you are gonna see it maybe once every, what, 10 games?
And you wonder why killers are just slugging now? Why on earth is that surprising to you? They constantly nerf every single thing about killers, and all the hooking based gen defense perks, and it takes you 20 seconds to hook a survivor you just downed, meanwhile all the gens are getting slammed, and you wonder why killers just don't bother with the hook anymore?
7 -
"Constantly nerf" … you didnt read much patchnots lately, did you?
1 -
You mean the ones where they nerfed:
- Call of Brine
- Corrupt Intervention
- Dead Man's Switch (arguably a side-grade)
- Deadlock
- Eruption
- Grim Embrace
- Hex: Ruin
- Overcharge
- Pop Goes the Weasel
- Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance
- Thanatophobia
- Tinkerer
While leaving us with amazing perks like…. merciless storm.
Again, what patch notes?
But yes also please ignore the entire point of my post to attack a single sentence i made at the end.
EDIT: Not even a single sentence, you took out a single phrase in a single sentence and ignored everything else.
4 -
If those perks would have been nerfed that hard to play something different, why is everyone running the same perks? Oh wait, cause theyre still the worst meta ever.
1 -
Because they must. Did you miss the part where i said after a survivor has been downed it still takes almost 20 seconds to hook them? If the survivor does nothing but run in a straight line from start of chase to end of chase and shift +w to the furthest corner of the map, do you know how much time is spent? You probably don't, but i'll tell you, it about 60 seconds. That isn't factoring in pallets, looping, windows, anything. A God pallet, AKA Shack, a pallet that MUST be broken, results in extending a chase by about 20 seconds.
This means, that in the first chase, all the survivor has to do is shift + w to killer shack, predrop the pallet, and shift+w to the furthest corner possible, and the survivors will finish 3 gens.
2 -
You must not. Good killer players never do this. Thats just killer hypocrisis. Also youre just assuming that the killer has no power or bloodlust doesnt exist, which is awfully wrong.
2 -
If you are getting Shift+W for 60 seconds it's a skill issue. The last chase stats also say that as there average of 60 seconds of chase across the whole match for all matches. but lets think more of numbers and time. the most killer without getting any BL stacks is 4.6m in chase so starting at max range of chase of 18m it takes 30s roughly (With BL it stacking its 25s.) to get that hit with out lunge, on that hit survivors are 6.6 speed for 1.8s gaining 11.88m in turn is another 19s roughly (With BL is 17s). So in the perfect run time for a Shift+W survivor (at max distances) the chase lasts for 49s (42s with BL procs). Most chases start much closer to 5-10m range from killer taking off a lot of time. And the most a Shift+W will do is predrop a pallet and with maps now 90% of them are skip able unsafe ones that slow them more then the killer. This is also for a M1 killer any M2 killer will me much faster on the down.
Post edited by Autharia on3 -
It's almost like hooking is a primary aspect of the game and therefore the survivors ability to fight back against killers in the game is centred around that..
Regardless, play as you like. Just with the awareness that the devs main priority is the health and longevity of the game. If they feel slugging is having a detrimental affect on that then they'll address it. It's as simple as that.
4 -
cool, nerf slugging
4 -
I'm not saying getting "shift+w" for 60 seconds is a skill issue, its literally the math around it. I'm saying that, mathematically, if the survivor shift+w to a corner of the map, a chase should last a minimum of 60 seconds (which includes the time it takes to pick them up, walk to a hook, and hook them). A chase, at MINIMUM, should last around 40 seconds from start to finish, and if you are going down in less than 40 seconds, you are looping WORSE than if you just held shift+w and ran to a corner of the map. This obviously is not factoring in a killer like nurse, but i personally do not include nurse in any kind of discussion around DBD because nurse does not play dead by daylight, she plays "The nurse game"
2 -
Then at that point what is left? Killers probably find the next thing you hate, or they just give up if it doesn't exist. They need to stop punishing people for doing the "bad thing" and start rewarding killers for doing the "good thing" while making the "bad thing" not possible from a gameplay perspective. But instead they just keep "nerfing" the "bad thing" which doesn't actually make the bad thing go away.
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