Myers Update does not address T3Bombing well enough
T3Bombing is one of the most preferred strategies of Myers players, its effective because you drain stalk of others and get up close and then drain the last needed to T3. When this happens Survivors are usually out of position and additionally this is made more unfair due to the fact Myers can use various perks to be undetectable.
Its incredibly easy to pull off and takes 2 healthstates where as other Killers are forced to charge up and be incredibly loud before they can do this. You HAVE to make this more fair for survivors to keep continued gameplay enjoyable.
I ask that you figure out if people really truely think that being T3Bomb'ed is a good gameplay loop.
What bHVR did this patch was
- Decreased the Evil Within gain multiplier when stalking from up close to 0.4 (was 1)
After testing this many times this just isn't enough, because at that time Myers needs like nothing to complete the T3Bomb.
My suggestions to solve this is to allow Myers drain until full and then require an X amount of seconds of stalking to activate T3. You could even use that Myers sound effect you removed a while back to be the sound the survivors hear in a 32m radius as T3 activates.
Will this leave Myers weaker? yes, he would need additional changes to rebalance but I think he would be far more enjoyable if we would focus on making him fair first and then strong.
Comments
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By "T3 bomb" I assume you mean putting T3 at 99% from one survivor and then activating it on another?
Listen bro. Dead by Daylight (as survivor) is a team game. If your teammate feeds the Myers stalk, too bad. That's the game. If you don't wanna worry about bad teammates, join a SWF. Or play killer.
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That's just how you play the killer. You do the same thing with ghostface.
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You mean that is how you play the Killer most efficiently, but I am more interested in creating a fair experience.
Other killers gives you a fair warning for the Insta-down attacks, Ghostface does not. Perhaps he should, though this isn't such a big problem for him due to his reveal mechanics.Post edited by Emeal on1 -
Pretty much this.
Myers who can't do 2.99c move is nothing but an M1 killer with no power whatsoever. Even trapper would have his traps, what would Myers have to offer? Not to mention the counter to Tier 3 Myers is having distance from him, so this suggestion will drop killer instantly to F tier.
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I already mentioned this in the main post, he would have to be balanced in other ways.
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Dude, why is that unfair? Its literally his power and there is nothing wrong with this tactic. Its not like he can do so ad infinitum, just a couple of times. Not everything needs "counterplay" counterplay.
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Are we really putting Myers and unfair in the same sentence when talking about his basekit? lmao
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Ghostface gives you a fair warning on your HUD, you know you have been stalked and you can see the stalk.
You know that, when you got exposed, but you don't know when you are 99, no?
Ghostface can do exactly same thing as Myers, difference is Myers can do it to other survivors, not just the one who get stalked.7 -
The T3 Bombing strategy with Michael Myers feels incredibly unfair to Survivors because it can strip them of any meaningful chance to respond or strategize. When Myers holds his Tier 3 activation until the perfect moment, Survivors are often left with no opportunity to see it coming, much less to escape or counter it. This approach can make the game feel less like a tense back-and-forth and more like a trap that's been sprung without any warning, all other Killers have way more warning.
For Survivors, T3 Bombing removes much of their gameplay agency. They rely on cues—like the killer's terror radius and visual indicators—to understand when danger is approaching, but Myers’ ability to build up Evil Within silently especially with perks that give undetectable and unleash it suddenly creates an environment where these cues are misleading or entirely absent. Without any warning, Survivors can go from repairing a generator or helping a teammate to being downed instantly. This lack of counterplay can feel punishing, as players lose any chance to make tactical decisions, kite, or use perks effectively except a few.
The result is often frustration. Survivors may feel that they’re simply sitting ducks, with no way to anticipate the deadly surge in power that Myers can unleash. This dynamic can feel not only unfair but also disempowering, as it robs them of the opportunity to outplay the killer. Instead of skill and strategy, it feels like Survivors are simply at the mercy of Myers’ timing, leading to an experience that can feel unbalanced and unsatisfying.
Remember that Dead by Daylight thrives on the tension and the thrill of the chase, both for Killers and Survivors. Sure, T3 Bombing is an effective strategy and undeniably powerful. But consider this: the best matches are the ones where both sides feel like they had a real chance to play skillfully. Survivors aren't necessarily looking for an easy game—they want an intense, back-and-forth experience where they feel like they had the opportunity to fight back, make clever plays, and maybe even surprise the Killer.
This is why I hope this reaches bHVR because I know they really care about creating a better cohesive, fair and more memorable matches, where both sides can leave the game feeling satisfied, knowing they were part of a dynamic, skill-based gameplay encounter.
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If you want to make it "fair", just make him as Oni. He can trigger it whenever he wants with some short animation.
Survivors will know about it by some audio cue, when he stalked enough to activate tier III.7 -
Yup, that would make it loads more fair. I would bet you 100 dollars had Myers come up this year, this would be part of his basekit.
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It's nuts that you expect Myers to run around with his limited duration expose on prominent display and eat every pallet in the map. It's simply not happening.
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This has nothing to be with my mental faculties. You forgot to read the last part of my first post like so many others here.
- Yes I understand these changes would put Myers in a difficult place.
- He would have to be balanced in other ways.
Once Myers has a good fair basekit he can be improved.
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Given the right perks and decent awareness (some maps making it very easy), a half-decent Myers doesn't need people to purposefully feed him stalk as he can stalk from spitting distance away with 0 Terror Radius and half-hidden behind a corner (Dead Rabbit + M&A, no need for full stealth). With the upcoming update, faraway stalking will be even faster which will make such combos even stronger as the "99%" part will be faster/easier to achieve (faster stalk while better hidden/less proximity needed = quicker 99%). T3 bombing is arguably the optimal way to play Myers and leaves little counterplay, especially when Tombstone/Tombstone Piece is involved (which is very often). More often than not, the Survivor that gets Tombstoned or insta-downed isn't even the one who gave Myers his stalk.
Strength or weakness doesn't mean much if the Killer is so unbearable to play against that Survivors give up/start meming/DC when they go against them (cough Skull Merchant cough). A Killer can be mid but it never feels good to die/get downed because someone else made a mistake.
As it is now, most Survivors already assume (since it's the easiest, simplest and most common strat) that any Myers they come across is either packing double Iri or Memorial + Tombstone piece and proceed to either give up or start to play locker simulator to deny Mori out of spite even if they get sacrificed, often leading to various slurs/jeers in the post-game chat.
Although non-Tombstone Myers often leads to some of the most tense but not obnoxious games no matter the result (assuming no BM was done).
Most people want Tombstone/T3 bombing weakened/gone due to half it's counterplay being reliant on other people but also want Myers strengthened in other areas and expand on his other, more unique gameplay styles. It's still a PTB so there's still time to see if the end-result will give Myers more variety while making him viable or if we're gonna end up in a Twins rework situation (nothing of notes gets changed/almost everything gets reverted).
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Myers still has to obtain stalk to get to the 99%.
It might not be "fair" to the survivor whom Mikey whips out his T3 on, but someone was letting Myers oogle them for too long.
Now, I do think it's unfair if he uses Tombstone piece to remove a survivor he has barely seen or interacted with from the match entirely, but at least with the standard 99% pop, you've still got a few more hook states to go through. At the very least with this update he needs to take more time to get to that T3 stage (with Tombstone piece).
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Yeah, I dont think the current solution is good enough and I much rather see some changes and then buffs to compensate new playstyles.
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Does your suggestion require myers to stalk survivors for a few seconds before he can enter T3, or just stalking in general?
If the former, how easy would it be for Myers to get that stalk performed in a tight loop area like shack, where you might not have full visual on the Survivor consistently, which would interrupt such a stalk requirement, exacerbated by his reduced movement.
Can he only pop T3 if he has unfettered sightlines on a survivor for a few seconds? How would this feel to play in the Cornfield maps?
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Instead all of this blah blah blah
You could’ve just said “bring back tier-up imminent warning music”
so it gives survivors some counterplay 😁7 -
I don't see why it should be the case for going into T2, T2Bombing isnt a thing and is not critiqued here.
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From your main post:
"My suggestions to solve this is to allow Myers drain until full and then require an X amount of seconds of stalking to activate T3. You could even use that Myers sound effect you removed a while back to be the sound the survivors hear in a 32m radius as T3 activates."
What exactly do you mean by "require an X amount of seconds of stalking to activate T3"
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I'm not sure Myers has been buffed enough that nerfing his best strategy (outside of tombstone piece) is a good idea. Because Myers is unquestionably too weak on live, and you do have to consider that Myers does poorly when he activates his power not on top of a survivor. He's not like Oni who can race across the map or Plague who can shoot over obstacles - powered up power burst killers make survivors who are not currently in chase play super timid and safe, and with Myers, predropping and W'ing is very effective for stalling out his timer.
His buffs are both good and needed, but they didn't address his weakness in chase, so I worry that trying to make it harder for him to activate his power mid-chase would just be nerfing him back to where he was before.
Besides, it's a team game. Myers popping T3 on me after stalking the Meg is no different than if Meg cleansed at a fountain, hung around injured and let Oni farm blood orbs, ran towards me with Legion in tow, ran Myers to my gen, kept following me around on gens when it's obvious the killer has Discordance, or already wasted the pallet I'm running towards. You get screwed over by your teammates' misplays all the time. I don't really mind until it's tombstone piece, where a teammate misplay straight-up deletes you from the game.
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a fair experience would be giving survivors a machete to chase after killer and giving killer 3 more friends.
this game is inherently unfair.
being popped by random t3 myers is part of the experience. play around it.
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His ability to get T3 mid chaise is exactly the point of his power. If he does progress to T3 while survivor is near the pallet chain with loops then his power essentially does nothing to him.
It's the situation where you can't really balance but would have to replace with something else that has it's use. I still find his insta-kill addons BS in their current state but at the same time I understand why most Myers players tend to play with at least one of them equipped. He is an example of a killer who is on both sides of extreme - either useless or deadly. If anything he requires a complete rework, no half-measure treatment.
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If I call it a rework, are you then open to bHVR taking a look at some of the most unpleasant gameplay like me?
I would consider these changes part of a rework, its obvious to me he needs major changes to be both more fair and balanced.
So we agree?
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Objection, objection!!
Or just make activating Tier 3 based on pressing a button, and make it so it slows you down when pressing it.
Voila, problem solved.
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As long as killer rework is decent and makes sense, sure. I understand frustration when playing against him but I also try to look from the other side's point of view. I support killers that have more effective means of playing and don't have to rely on the sole cheap mechanic, especially if that has little or no counter-play for survivors or is the only meaningful way to play as killer.
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Me when I use my eyes and ears to pay attention to the very tall man with loud breathing.
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So we want the same thing, I just dont think we need to see if from the Killer's side too much when there are unhealthy strategies.
Just as we should not see things too much for the Survivors side when they have unhealthy strategies.I cant promise bHVR will perfect Myers, but I am pretty certain his future would be better if we fixed these age old issues, than if bHVR didnt.
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The alternative to Myers "t3bombing" is Myers eating pallets for 60seconds.
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Most people in this game don't want fun matches. This is the reality I still have to accept every time I start the game.
What do they want? To win.
As fast and with the least amount of effort possible.
I personally might not like that, but it's the hard truth.
People, however, like to complain, when the same simple tricks they use to gain wins are used by the opponent, giving them the win.
Myers is a relic from the past. For some a better past, where the game was less competetive and more focused on experience.
This is why he has the tombstone addons. It's propably also why he's kept as simple as he is.
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And we have a winner folks.
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I'm afraid these forums are not intended as a high school backyard, its a professional work environment for the developers and that means you talk to people with respect for them and their ideas. That means rude implications is a no go especially when you should be talking about the idea and not the person who came up with it or their brain state.
This is sorta implied in their rules, Be respectful to other Members.
Though I personally would prefer bHVR referring to this rule in another way:
Just a reminder that this is a professional environment where respectful and constructive communication is essential. Disagreements should focus on ideas, not individuals—please avoid any language that could be seen as a personal slight, even subtly. Let’s keep discussions polite and centered on feedback that moves the game forward for the developer team.
But I'm 99% certain this is their position, as clear as could be.
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On second thought it's not worth it. Have a great day.
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Myers is fair. "T3bombing" is not something that needs to be addressed. Myers being able to catch and down survivors is not some kind of disaster that needs to be solved.
I also despise these arguments of "nerf now and buff later" because it's always really asking "gut the killer now and maybe fix them in three years".
If you want to complain about insta-down killers, Hillbilly, Leatherface, and Oni are right there.
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If everyone thought that way maybe, but I'm pretty sure its rare to find a Survivor who find it engaging, skillful or earned.
I think people just accept Myers cause hes always been that way, and thats a mistake cause his gameplay is awful in ways that would get modern Killers changed and I see no reason to keep Myers on a special pedestal,so I want bHVR to check it thoroughly if T3Bombing is a loved strategy than a sizeable majority find good for the game.
I also despise these arguments of "nerf now and buff later" because it's always really asking "gut the killer now and maybe fix them in three years".
Killer balance is a process and it takes time and stats being gathered. its just a part of game design we deal with.
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If we balanced the game around what survivors thought was fair, killers wouldn't have powers. Myers has one of the weakest powers in the game. He has one of the weakest insta-down powers on top of that. The counterplay to Myers is to run away from him like every other killer in the game because he can't do anything about it. He doesn't have mobility, he doesn't have anti-loop, he doesn't have range.
Again, go complain about Hillbilly, Leatherface, and Oni, who all do what Myers does but a lot better.
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I didnt say balance the game around what any survivor thinks is fair, but there is a middleground and I think that middleground would be more healthy for Myers longterm if the would have measures against such cheap strategies and was buffed in other ways.
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As a Ghostface main, no. You can't see the stalk progress as Surv, only the Mark.
99ing is a valid strategy, surely we're not complaining that the stalkers, already not the strongest, are stalking too well are we? That would just be ridiculous.
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I was wrong, I thought it gave a stalk meter. Yeah I also find that unfair even tho Ghostface has other counters and Myers dont.
You can call it ridiculous, but a smear isnt an argument.0 -
I'd argue the fact you didnt even notice proves this is not as pressing an issue as you think
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Well that would be arguing a fallacy, not knowing every detailed mechanic of Killer A in the game has no bearing on the severity of the issuewith Killer B. Unless you disagree ofc. Ghostface has a built in counter mechanic thats why it rarely comes up. I never said anything about urgency, that is up to bHVR to determine.
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theres a difference when you used said detail as a reason that a different, similar killer should not be changed despite both killers having the same mechanic.
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They dont have identical mechanics. I was not using Ghostface as an example because they have similar mechanics, It was in response to someone mentioning Ghostface and I responded I wrongly remembering how his power does not warn people. that was wrong, but I could have used other killers as examples, there are plenty that give fair warning.
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I don't understand. Is it really that hard to use your eyes and not feed the stalkers? That prevents 99ing. Ghostface even has a Reveal mechanic.
I'm not saying this to be mean or anything, do you really have that much trouble swivelling your camera to look or hiding behind a line of sight blocker, looping the M1 Killers, etc.? You can fix that by becoming better at looping and looking around, my guy, or by running chase perks. The best Myers and Ghostface in the world can't do much if you're better at mindgames than them, and I say this as a halfway decent player of both.
There really is no excuse to be upset that the stalkers have a power whose entire purpose is to stalk, and you're crazy if you think BHVR is ever going to remove 99ing. One of the only actual skillful plays these two Killers can do outside of mindgames, and you want it removed because you think it's "unfair"? These two Killers HAVE nothing else, they need buffs not nerfs like what you want here.I just think you believe that ANY one hit down is unfair, friend. I'm sorry, but if that's the case, that really reads like whining. Please, learn to play against these Killers (it's not hard), or maybe look at ACTUALLY problematic instances of instant downing like say… doubletapping as Artist or Billy in his current state? Because there's nothing about the stalkers that is unfair, and if you think there is, I'm sorry but you simply just don't know how to counter them and that is a skill issue.
Now if this is a skill issue you'd like to address, I am more than willing to swap Steam tags and get you in some customs to help. Some people legitimately do struggle with the Stalkers and how to handle them. If you want that, ask, I'd be more than happy to help you learn better. If not, then I guess you're on your own, because most Survivors genuinely have no issue with these Killers. The real issue with Myers is not 99ing, it's a 99 into Tombstone, which I agree is very unfair and needs addressing. Thankfully, they sort of have as of his recent buffs, and it looks like he'll be getting more in the future too. Either way, your point is simply moot.3 -
Nobody has talked about stalk prevention, this isn't what the 99ing problem is about. and no you cant prevent it.
You are free to think its a skill issues, but its not something you can effectively prevent, I know I play Myers often.This topic also isn't about balance, you like many others talk about the balance implications but I already said he must be buffed in other way, neither is this topic about if survivors have issues dealing with the strategy, its about as I have mentioned before if its an enjoyable experience, one survivors feel is fair. This is what I want bHVR to check if 99ing is.
In online video games, a sense of fairness is crucial for a positive player experience. When players feel the game is fair, they’re more likely to stay engaged, develop their skills, and enjoy competing or cooperating with others. Fairness in games involves many aspects, from balanced matchmaking and reliable network performance to clear, consistent rules.
Fairness in online games is essential for player enjoyment and engagement. When games feel balanced and skill-based, players are more likely to stay motivated, invest time, and feel a sense of control over their progress. If a game feels unfair—due to issues like unbalanced matchmaking, lag, or pay-to-win features—players quickly become frustrated and lose trust in the experience.
A fair game environment also fosters positive communities where players respect each other and feel valued. Ultimately, fair play is key to building a loyal player base, as it creates an experience where players feel rewarded for their efforts and excited to keep coming back.
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But this is an assymetrical game. It's not designed to be fair.
And there's nothing unfair about an instant down you can prevent by a) breaking line of sight, b) staring at the Killer long enough.
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But this is an assymetrical game. It's not designed to be fair.
What do you even mean? this game is absolutely designed to be fair. fairness is absolutely something bHVR want in this game.
I am not even sure which kind of understanding of game design you are coming from, I think this message will go down better with bHVR who understand a lot less people would play this game when it has cheap and easy instadowns.Also this thread is about Meyers who dont have a reveal mechanic.
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It doesnt feel great or anything but that doesnt make it unfair. At the end of the day you can generallypredict when myers has t3 99d or not based on how hes playing pretty accurately; and whether you know or not, the game plan of not getting hit is the same. If its been a while since he popped t3 then hes probably waiting for the right moment so you must play accordingly.
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It doesnt feel great or anything but that doesnt make it unfair.
But the line goes somewhere, You can make the same argument for multiple Killer strategies that has been removed in the past.
you can generallypredict when myers has t3 99d or not based on how hes playing pretty accurately; and whether you know or not, the game plan of not getting hit is the same. If its been a while since he popped t3 then hes probably waiting for the right moment so you must play accordingly.
I don't think this qualify as a proper information and counter play and I want bHVR to revisit and re-evaluate that determination.
Because I am 100% certain, this gameplay loop would not hold up to bHVR's modern design standards for killers, It may be a box they dont want to open right now and that many players are afraid to open because they fear their little fav Killer getting slightly disadvantages. I however think Myers future would be way better if they fixed those internal problems.I have seen no arguments against this. I have no fear of bHVR's design decisions.
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And I think it's "unfair" that Survivors can stack a bunch of gen buff perks and push gens like mad against my Myers, but I have to run two or more generator perks just to handle that - nerfed gen perks at that. Do you see me complaining here, asking for it to be made "more fair" by adding more debuffs or readding 3genning? No.
Because that's part of the game. A game that is asymetrical and inherently, as a result, sorta unfair sometimes for both sides. It happens. That's what happens when you make a game asymmetrical. The 1 has to be stronger than the 4, this is how Myers is stronger than the 4. It's fair, whether or not you agree with it.
All I am seeing is someone complain about one of the weakest Killers in the game having an addon that does deserve nerfs, but which is overall the only way he is strong and is rare enough because most people do not like ending games in five seconds.
There is nothing that needs adjusting about Myers being able to 99 his stalk. That's his only actual tech and it's barely a tech.
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