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Current State of Survivor
Anybody notice Kill ratio is up and there is practically a permanent Bloodpoint bonus for Survivor? Would be cool to address that.
Comments
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All I'm seeing is how survivor players going down in 10-15sec and it's not because the killer player is good.
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Honestly 90% of survivors are toxic or don't do anything. Nobody wants to play with them. Maybe address player behavior and so something about it. Killers are slugging and tunneling because majority of survivors are being toxic so they go into every match thinking this. I am about to change my killer load out because I'm sick of it.
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Fr - it feels like survivor players playing bad on purpose, or just don't care to try at all. The devs can't fix that.
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They can't fix it but it's going to make all the other players leave. They need to enforce their bad sportsmanship. I barely play killer and I had a game.where a squad refused to leave just torment me. It is happening every game. It also feels as if I'm not matched up correctly. When I play survivor same thing. It's like the potatoes need to be harvested.
The thing is there were never any asymmetrical games out there but now there are. Yes DBD has a solid player base but at this point they don't have the loyal ones like they used to. Now it's just bad spuds.
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What is there to address that hasn't been already?
They aren't going to buff survivor in a meaningful way going forward.
All of their feedback channels are filled with killer mains.
Any survivor concern gets derailed immediately and zero productive conversation is had.
So you either stop caring about winning on survivor or you quit.
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I've had multiple matches with teammates not doing anything, or throwing the game on purpose in the first 2 minutes. When that doesn't happen, it's a smashing success for us. It's a matter of willpower and maturity, things that this community falls short in. I'm hoping more people are waking up to why survivor matches go south. The killer has little, or even nothing, to do with it.
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Why should I play survivor, when:
- Devs do nothing about slugging.
- Devs aren't doing nothing with Nurse, if you go vs 1000+ hour Nurse it's almost guaranteed win.
- Thrill of the Hunt situation - releasing perk that wasn't tested at all, if it lasts until winter event I'm simply not going to play and also my SWF.
- I've waited 6 months in Eruption+CoB+Overcharge meta, literally matches were so miserable back then and BHVR did nothing.
- Killers have perks that give value for nothing - for example Nowhere to Hide (and ofc Distortion nerf) removed all stealth in game.
- There was Nerf for medkits, only because Otz & other killer mains made video about it - and I swear, if devs add yet another medkit nerf - as Otz said in his recent video I'm gonna quit this game for good. Literally balancing the game around top of the top sweatlords.
- All maps are shrunk, tiles are weaker.
- A lot of perk classes are basically dead - Boon perks, Teamwork perks (someone remember about them??), Invocation is so laughably bad, literally every viable survivor perk have to have some kind of drawbacks, Shoulder the Burden is also not that good, very situational and it got nerfed at the start.
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I'm going with maturity.
My thing is if your not going to play or play decent not to ruin someone's experience just don't play. If you're playing to be a troll you have a wasteful life to be bothered to ruin other people's time.
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To face the truth - Nothing really changed in survivor gameplay, AND the killer gameplay. If both sides will PLAY the game NORMALLY - it would feel the same as 2 or 3 years ago. If anything - the base-kits which been given to survivor side, BT along side anti-facecamp, is something that any survivor player was dreaming about. Killers received only base-kit yellow mori which is just nothing-burger\makes no difference on a gameplay.
Yesterday (2 d ago now) - I was playing only soloq — I see what is happening and it looks like some survivor players just sabotaging the game. They're going down in 10-15sec, they can't loop (literally running like a headless chicken), they don't help each other, they don't even unhooking!! sometimes, running the killer on each other, it's an actual circus. And then they are saying: - "Oh man, killer side is so strong, they have brokenly op perks". Like dude… Please, look at how YOU playing the game and what is your teammates doing first.
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Definitely. So many people just give up on a whim or don't play serious. That teammate slot could have easily been taken by someone who cares. Stop polluting the game with yourself if you're just gonna load in to not even play. And the crazy thing is people actually defend this behavior. "Well, I'm not gonna sit through a frustrating match," and they're all like, "You tell em! Go ahead and DC!"
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What the hell?
All my games are either full of SWF with my mains (Nemesis and Vecna) or average survs with the killers I barely play.
I'm not facing these clowns you guys are talking about here.3 -
I mean… If you don't see it, doesn't mean it's not happening.
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Of course.
I'm still shocked I didn't match with any of these clowns.1 -
To be fair, with how terrible some maps have become, together with the sheer amount of killers who are oppressive in chase, I no longer expect chases to last long at all.
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Welp, let's hope the new snowy map will be better. :)
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Just did a 4 gen chase (which is pretty rare for me). No hooks anywhere, 1 gen left and my three other teammates ended up dying smh.
They can sit on gens good but can't last 2 seconds in a chase.
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In the PTB it wasn't amazing, imo, but it will probably be changed before it reaches live.
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Honestly.
Im seeing deadzones and just blank spots nonstop on maps now. Entire sections of the map where there is just a single or NO pallets. Or the pallet that is there is like the ones in ormond on tables and a snowman lol.
Not sure what the map logic is turning into but its a bit annoying.7 -
Coldwind maps in particular, I'd say.
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They can fix it. They start banning people for doing it.
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Where is this "kill ratio is up" data you are seeing? BHVR has not released anything.
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Yep.
Agreed.0 -
Just got a match like you guys described.
Funny thing is I'm sick and I just lost one of these clowns through the hatch because I was on top of it and I coughed the exact time I should close it.
"So you were being toxic wanting to close the hatch on the survs face?"
Nops. I lost her (Yu-Jin), found the hatch and was waiting for her to bleed out. Can't risk Adrenaline 😂0 -
Yeah pallets are just gone. It's dead zones everywhere. It's laughable at this point.
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I got close to not caring yesterday after 7 straight games of killer player harassment and around 12 awful matches total.
In my final match, I was so close to not caring anymore, but I pushed through. We got 2 gens done because someone just needed to cleanse totems with thrill of the hunt (no devour, no ruin, just croud control).
After that, i got Lara's prestige one level up and gladly logged off for the day.
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This has always been the case though (rest not directed at you specifically).
What I am seeing though is a lot of very miserable matches, with excessive slowdowns, obnoxious killer builds and unpleasant play styles from a lot of killers that are making regular matches pretty damn miserable lately.
I am really missing 2v8, where I didn't have to endure obnoxious killers like SM, Twins, Knight, Trickster or Chucky etc, along with no tedious perk builds from both sides.
I have a very low escape rate at present even though I have over 5k hours in the game, mostly because team mates give up, completely throw or outright DC and in some cases and (while I am NOT condoning it) I do kind of understand them wanting out
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BHVR Mandy says the killrates have not changed in a meaningful way. How much trust one can place in this statement is up to each individual.
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Interesting. If I had to hazard a guess, the game just isnt fun anymore. With BHVR's constant botches with releases, perks, the game as a whole, updates and whatever else they do, there's no way to make it fun anymore. Survivor is just miserable to play if you aren't apart of a SWF. None of these things happen when you get SWFs right? I'd assume as much. But I'd like to hear! :)
Just because someone on a forum says something is happening, doesn't mean it is. Not saying you are wrong by any means, just that you're a rando on a forum. Everyone is.
I try to not be toxic at every turn, hoping to charm the killer into only killing me. Doesn't always work, and after the Mori change, now they just kill me last, to mori.
The game continues to evolve, and If I look back at say.. even 2020, It's not been for the best imo. The same damn things keep happening, just with a different wrapper. And while we are always at one another's throats, BHVR is the one whom we should all be up in arms about. This is actually crazy to me.
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Guys, I understand all of the frustrations because I did mention that I played exclusively soloq for the day, just to get the better understanding and more in-touch.
But still, overall\in general - the game feels the same, the gameplay is the same, there was no any drastic changes made to the core game, but adding anti-facecamp, base-kit BT, icons, base-kit yellow mori, and some new perks to both sides, which didn't particularly changed the meta. And yet the survivor players smh got worse at doing their job (looping, doing gens)? Genuine question: how?
Yes, they added some questionable tiles and loops with the new maps, the dead-zones probably because change or bug with map-RNG, but do you believe it's the main reason? Change in meta perks? Does meta changed much from the DH and Ult-weapon nerfs?
Honestly - my personal opinion: Something happened to MMR + influx in new players after 2v8 just completely jacked your matches, by matching low hour players with high hour + decent killer. And these low hour players "sabotaging" your games, getting you killed, doesn't do anything to make progress, making a lot of mistakes that benefit the killer player.
Call me crazy, but I genuinely think, this is exactly what's wrong with the game for now.
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Possible. Personally, I know that im a relatively bad survivor. At least in chase. Im trying to improve every game if possible.
I dont know if 2v8 is the culprit, but i do die a lot more often to my team rather than the killer.
Did survivors get worse? I dont really think so. The game changes around all of. Some got better and adapted. Some got worse because they relied on very strong stuff that isnt around anymore. Some have problems learning how to play against each killer, because there are just that many at this point, and the game still doesnt allow to play against a custom killer bot. The learning curve as survivor is a lot longer than that of one singular killer and i cant imagine how awful the new player experience on survivor is right now.
Overall, I think there is no definitive answer. Its a mixture of all of them.
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- devs gave no proper incentive for hooking and spreading hooks for years while they have been constantly making hooks more powerful for survivor than for killer.
- Let's not pretend Nurse is some hardcore menace to deal with simply because she has unique counterplay compared to other killers.
- I want Thrill of the Hunt to be nerfed, but at least hex meta (excluding Penti, just kill that perk BHVR pls) is more interacting than slowdown one.
- We are waiting years to actually see big part of the killer roster actually be playable due to survivor meta.
- Survivors also have perks that give value for nothing.
- Nerf to medkits was more than deserved, and let's not pretend it was because "dirty killer main Otz" complained about it (btw, Shoulder the Burden concept was literally his idea)
- 10% of maps get shrunk and that's "all maps"???
- Boon perks are still very good lol, idk what you are talking about
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How exactly do you propose that BHVR "addresses
This is your answer.
Why would survivors play when the fundamental design of survivor is so punishing?
That leads to bad sportsmanship, and players constantly DCing or dying on hook. There's no carrot on the stick for the majority of players in every match.
And anyone saying "address the community's attitude" is a distraction. BHVR can't change people, they can only change their game design to promote favored actions. But this is entirely the point: their game design is what causes this game state we're living with.
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anyways, to the matter at hand and to respond to OP's original post.
Just to clarify, this is also my experience after switching over from 90% killer, 10% survivor to 80% surv and 20% killer player and carefully analyzing every single killer and survivor match i played.
How many times as survivor did you have the cases where:
- survivor that unhooks you just instantly proceeds to reset you under the hook when they are not sure killer is actually chasing another survivor/they are safe to reset you?
- survivor that unhooks you proceeds to reset you when you literally are under influence of Leverage and/or other perks that affect healing speeds, and so wastes so much time trying to reset you at the wrong moment?
- you are repairing a gen while killer is carrying another survivor to the hook and aren't hopping off the gen so that you don't let killer know you are repairing a gen that will possibly get hit by Pain Res?
- you are repairing a gen with an injured survivor that needs to be reset and don't 99% the gen because you are safe to do so and actually reset the teammate?
- you and/or your teammate is rushing to hooked survivor almost immediately after they get hooked?
- and countless other cases of bad macro gameplay
Skill of the average survivor is progressively getting worse, BHVR is cattering to "casual" players too much, meaning they are getting spoiled more and are choosing to rely on perks, addons or simple basekit mechanics to carry their matches instead of their own gamesense and macro knowledge.
Most of 4Ks are results of tremendous streaks of survivor mistakes during the match
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Yes, they added some questionable tiles and loops with the new maps, the dead-zones probably because change or bug with map-RNG, but do you believe it's the main reason?
Yes, I do.
Because even a survivor who is decent in chases would go down if they had nothing or almost nothing to work with. Maps shouldn't be empty or have nothing but filler pallets, they have to have good resources survivors can use, otherwise they just go down. Especially if they are playing against one of the worst, most unfun type of killer we have: M2 zoning.
The Coldwind maps are a perfect example, but it doesn't stop there. The new variations for the MacMillan maps are terrible, reworked Crotus Prenn Asylum is a downgrade compared to the original, and we have maps that have always been awful, such as Dead Dawg Saloon.
The meta plays a part, of course, but I think the maps are more important. And currently, I think many of them do not provide good resources for survivors.
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So I agree with this. I think the BP needs to be changed. Regardless new players or not thrive for BP. Killer pays off way more than being tunneled out as survivor.
So give bigger BP for doing gens (you know the actual point of the game). BP bonus for doing more than 1 and so on. Chase BP is good. Remove the unlocking and escape bonus orcut them in half. More times than not you see deadbeat players do absolutely nothing but get more BP than you because they pulled the exit gate and escaped. Give a bonus if your repeatedly hooked in a short time.
As for killer increase BP for spreading hooks, BP multiplier for long chases and hooking someone other than the last person within a time frame (60 seconds should be good). Give a bonus for opening the gate.
Changes
If the gate is 99 and not open regress it. There is no reason not to pull a gate. I know some killer perks are endgame but serious folks just pull out and leave.
If you're in the gate and not leaving after 45 seconds your exposed and the entity blocks the gate if a player gets downed. This will also secure a kill if need be.
If a player does not do anything in a game matchmaking is blocked for 24 hour.
Get rid of unhooking face camp. Instead expand the radius 10 meters and add 10 seconds of deliverance each time the killer walks or stand in the circle the timer won't count down. This also increases chase and allows team mates not try and waste time by getting you and they can do gens. If you're hooked the entire game then at end game collapse you can unhook and recieve a massive distraction bonus.
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The only thing I disagree with is the medkit part.
One of Otz’s main points was that Medkits should be made more interesting, and while some of the stuff mentioned would make medkit addons more niche, I do think they add more overall variety in terms of what they can do. With Flashlights having their utility removed (when Lightburn was removed), I think it would be a good idea to keep Medkits as a decent item but give them more utility aspects.
Even still, while Medkits have a history of being strong, I do think Toolboxes (for a really long time) have been far more problematic in terms of “balance” but I think Toolboxes should functionally remain as the “progression/advantage” as opposed to “utility”.
I think my biggest issue with DBD as a whole is that it has so, so much potential to do unique and creative things but it often goes with the safest option, it’s why we have dozens of perks that do the exact same thing but slightly different; e.g. Dark Devotion v Unforeseen. I think DBD should take these opportunities and do new things, experiment, actually have fun with designing things as opposed to trying to make things “meta”.
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I actually finally did give up on playing survivor for the most part. The only time I play survivor is when there is a new event/special game mode or if a new page opens up in the tome. Playing solo survivor in the current state of the game is one of the most miserable experiences I have ever had in online gaming. I compared the data from hundreds of my own matches and this is what I found. I can either play killer and get at least a 3K at close to a 90% rate or I can sweat buckets in solo queue to barely achieve a 50% escape rate. The 50% being on a good day of course.
Of course there's a lot more to it than this. It's just the amount of unfun things that can happen when you play solo. Getting matched with a 600 hour teammate and a 5000 hour killer? Game is over. Killer wants to slug you for the 4K? Nothing you can do. High tier killer wants to tunnel, proxy camp, and bring a full slowdown build? Game over. Teammate doesn't want to play anymore? Instant loss. I genuinely feel like at least half of my survivor matches are a complete waste of my time.
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So I only play with one other person. My husband did play but stopped because he was getting tunneled out every game and he just wasn't having fun. That with pain from his neck and arm it wasn't worth it. Now my son and I played and the poor kid was actually gave camped and tunneled his second game. He was mad but he just quit and went to something else. We both taught him how to play and both of us are golden age gamers. There is a difference in SWF and soloq and I have had some really good matches in soloq. The thing that gets me is thay if it's only a duo once one goes out the other purposesly goes out.
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Sorry to hear about those two. When I play with family and such, I always suggest some customs first to make things 100% fun to cut out the killer players who thrive on just being !@#holes. Yeah, thats all it is, and you know who you are.
I solo'Q mostly as well, sometimes play with my wife. If you want someone to run with or customs, lemme know :)
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