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Losing thrill of the hunt 1 minute into the game.
Tru3 lost Thrill 1 minute into the game losing half his build. The change was significant enough to not allow him to defend the totem. What is the point of totem perks that are not effective at allowing the killer to protect the totem?
Comments
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Totems are high risk, high reward. Thrill isn’t meant to make hexes permanent, just help you get more value out of them. That’s a minute not spent on gens. Also it’s not like that’s gonna happen every match. Here someone was prepared. It is what it is.
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But he's running pentimento…? A perk that wants survivors to cleanse hex totems and is much stronger than ruin…?
And he won the match with Pentimento staying up most of the time…?
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What is the point of totem perks that are not effective at allowing the Killer to protect the totem?
Because Hex Totems have power effects at the downside of being able to be removed, they are glass cannon perks, high risk/high reward. If the defense Hex Totem perks are too good at their job, it leaves these strong perks unchecked, and leads to them being too power since the risk is removed but the reward remains the same.
Post edited by Rizzo on19 -
4K5
3 injures and a down for 2 two totems. I’d say thrill did some work this game creating pressure.
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hex perks always risky i find some games they can just all be cleaned quickly with no value or you play well as a team an the perks just get ignored lol. Seen so many killers at end screen with devour but they don't get enough hooks to really use it.
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Name two totems that are high reward without mentioning Devour.
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NOED and Blood Favour
Both perks can give you free downs I'd say that's high reward
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Blood Favor, Crowd Control, Ruin, Haunted Grounds. There’s 4.
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Blood favor so slept on. Shutting down one of the main chase resources ensures pressure through fast downs.
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Haunted popping at the right time can allow you to snowball so hard. Very satisfying when it works like that.
Annnnnndddddd then there's the scenario when you're chasing an injured surv, it pops, and then you down them and the rest hide & wait it out. Basically the definition of the high risk high reward potential. It's that potential that needs to be carefully balanced.
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It popping when you’re chasing a healthy survivor or there’s a surv on hook is so satisfying. HG + Retribution can give you even more value. Totems give you even better rewards when combined with a goal in mind.
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Of course you are going to lose a totem you don't ever make an effort to defend. This thread is stupid.
He spawned opposite map of shack, where his hex was in a commonly known totem location. Despite playing as twins and having more than enough time (30 something seconds, forgive me for not knowing the exact number) to make it to the totem to check on it, he didn't. He definitely still had an opportunity to defend it with thrill, he chose not to, that's not an issue with the perk.
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Everyone is dead at 5 gens. But OMG yeah 2 totems got cleansed lmao. This is a terrible example lol.
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forget that pentimento. Imagine he was running 2 perk build with thrill+ruin or any other hex. it doesn't really matter. the hex perks offered no reward.
i don't think you know what your talking about.
tru3 is known for reporting real life in-game situations that happen frequently on an average basis. part of reason why i am making this post is because i had a similar game where i lost my totems within 2-3 minutes of the match. a bit later than he did.
high risk high reward. high reward implying that the perk has large cieling in which it gain effective gameplay value. For example if a killer bring a perk. say eruption and they kick a gen 4 times a match and gen explodes for 40% total regression. that is mild to low reward for the perk. Hex:ruin in this game did not get ANY % of regression. we can forget about "High reward", the perk isn't even passing the MINIMUM reward test, let alone high reward.
If the defense Hex Totem perks are too good at their job,
The perk are not effective at the job at all. normally the conceptual idea of a totem defence perk is that when you equip the perk, the perk has higher totem life time expectancy than if the player does not bring the perk. there is no point in bringing hex perks if the average life expectancy is same with the perk as it is without the perk. When the killer equip thrill, he is expected to be able to interrupt totems. tru3 walked to his totem and was not able to defend the totem, so even when the killer knows to defend totem, he still cannot gain value from his own perk.
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He's running hex perks in a meta where survivors have had to put up with full hex builds for nearly a month. A lot of survivors check for thrill at the start of the match now and make sure hexes get cleansed
It'd be like complaining about everyone having unbreakable in a meta that heavily rewards killers for slugging
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It's not really like Tru3 was going out of his way to defend the totems, it's unlucky they were found so quickly but the focus was clearly on the survivors and even if he did save the thrill in time he was still going to lose the ruin at which point the thrill isn't doing anything anyway.
The build in general was kinda weird. Deerstalker on twins is a meme and thrill just to protect ruin and maybe pentimento is quite questionable because ruin isn't strong enough to bring protection for that alone and you're only getting two pentimentos max.
I don't really see this as a good example of anything tbh besides showing why twins is kinda underrated.
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Niche, mid, very mid, incredibly mid. BF works well on some survivors but smart folks know how to play around it. It is a godsend on Game at least.
There's a reason BF is not and has never been meta.
The rest of these are kind of a fart.
And yet you never see it in any sort of top level or tourney play, even where other perks are restricted.
Why do you think that is?
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Because… Comp is completely different to regular dbd?
Do you think Rancor is a super strong meta perk, since last I checked a lot of comp killers use it.
The correct answer is because it's outclassed. Both sides have perks that are leagues above others that's the nature of DBD balance in a nutshell really.
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He won…without it.. You countered your own point with the video you posted…
Post edited by Rizzo on16 -
Well, absolutely never use Ruin in combination with this perk. Fisrt, current Ruin is garbage perk. And second, it will only alert survivors that you have Hex Totems as soon as they touch a gen, so they will go in their search.
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He had Pentimento... I'm assuming his goal was for the survivors to eventually cleanse? And he won so I guess he got value from his build. Good for him, great result
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….because balancing and rules in comp are different. haunted grounds and blood favor are generally banned.
why do you think that is?
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I'm sorry, but you have no real clue what you are talking about. About as much as Tru3.
Blood Favor is usually banned in comp because it is ridiculously strong, and whenever it isn't banned it sees ubiquitous use.
Because I like to speak in facts rather than anecdotes and things pulled out of nowhere, you can look at the most-used killer perks of DbD League's recent All Hallows' League tournament (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12AncFXVhL2sEuJMS9s4CgZx3FQkyTNXCrwNujucSP6g), a tournament in which there were much fewer restrictions than usual:
Wait, Blood Favour is the 3rd most-used perk here? …And that's despite Pentimento being banned?!
Wait, killers have banned perks too? And even more per-killer perk and add-on bans?!
Aren't survivors infinitely OP and killers can never win if the survivors are barely alright at the game and actually just do gens???
Wait, the vast majority of killers got more than 2 kills per game, overall average killrates being comfortably above 60%, average hook stages comfortably above 8, with some of the killers having 80+% killrates?! And this against death squads on voice comms that have been practicing together for years and are toxic tryharding?!
…
Blood Favor, Devour Hope and Pentimento are extremely impactful and powerful perks, and the ability to fortify them using Thrill with 70% reduced cleanse speed was blatantly problematic. That's not even mentioning Face The Darkness or the various killer abilities, add-ons and perks that could legitimately make it impossible to cleanse.
Ruin is also much better than people tend to give it credit for. The regression is slow, but the fact that gens regress constantly is crazy. Imagine the time you would have to spend kicking all those gens constantly. It's a slow killer, but a killer all the same. Of course, you need to actually create pressure yourself for it to be really impactful, it does not do its job on its own.
Crowd Control is really potent now and not a lot of people have caught on to just how potent it is after its buff. It's another thing you regularly cannot afford to leave up.
Third Seal is also a very underrated perk. Against non-coordinated groups this can quickly cause massive mayhem, people wasting minutes looking for others, bleeding out, transitioning hook stages or dying on hook. Not to mention what it does to perks a lot of survivors (again especially if they are not in coordinated premade groups on voice comms) rely on, such as Windows, Bond, Kindred. People just don't use this much, but trust me, this perk would be up there as the most complained-about, most problematic thing in the game if players were to regularly use it and slug a lot, particularly of course on killers such as Nurse, Blight and Billy. Awful game experience for just about anyone but the best, most coordinated voice-comm 4-SWFs.
He loses Thrill after not checking on it at any point, and spins it into a narrative that it's not OP and that it being overtuned is just something people randomly decided to come up with and tell stories about like they apparently constantly do. …After it was nerfed from 70 to 60%. Because it was clearly OP before. He also 4ks at 5 gens left but doesn't attribute any of it to the time survivors spent cleansing and taking hits for the first cleanse, and the compounded value of setting up Pentimento on the totems the survivors had spent that time getting rid of. Nor does he think about the fact that had he went there even just 5 seconds earlier, he would have interrupted the cleanse, meaning that survivor would have wasted 30+ seconds for nothing, and still taken a hit for it, with him then potentially being able to have Penti + Thrill up (at 5 tokens again, too).
Thrill is in a good spot at 12%. It's still a decently strong perk. Just not overpoweredly so, like it was at 14%.
Post edited by Rizzo on25 -
Haunted Grounds doesn't count, it's different kind of hex and you want it to be cleansed, the other 3 are not high reward, there are stronger perks that you don't have to risk losing 30s into the match
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Yall are talking just to talk now it’s ok to be wrong.
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forgot about 3rd seal it’s a solo queue stomper. Not being able to see teammates hooked and you didn’t pay attention to the initial hook bubble often means a free hook state to second stage or to the arms of the roach king.
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There are now even disconnects when playing a full hex build without Thrill. Recently people were complaining about Thrill because it was supposedly sooo op. Now I'm even playing without that totem and people are still disconnecting. I wonder what excuse people will come up with next time. Oh Hexbuilds OP ?! this is getting ridiculous. By the way, I am Survivor Main. Just by the way
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Without watching did he tunnel at 5 Generators? I know he's one of those who need to 4K-no Generators complete as if his life depends it.
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Here is the sad truth...devour hope way to strong to be allow strong protection. You got hex face to darkness, thrill of the hunt, and dominance for protection. I'm not opposed to buffing hexs at base but devour need to be change if so.
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Tru3 here really shows the "power of narrative": He loses Thrill after not checking on it at any point, and spins it into a narrative that it's not OP and that it being overtuned is just something people randomly decided to come up with
are you joking or what. his totem is at shack and he goes to shack gen as his 2nd destination in the match. Your so caught up in your own narrative that your disregarding the most basic actions taken in the video. Later on the video, he questions the perk because he was in near immediate vicinity and wonders why he was not able to stop the cleanse. The chat later reminds him that the perk was weaken and then he re-affirms between 5:20-5:30.
Only in dbd do you get justification where the killer has 4 perks vs 16 perks and destroys perk left & right is like normal. either way, good job killing another perk.
None of hex perk are worth anything because having life-span of 1 minute, 2 minute, 3 minute is near worthless and virtually hex perks require them to stay up for minutes and minutes to gain value. I am not entirely sure at what point do you consider the hex perks for having "high reward". Maybe 5 minutes? They're not even close to getting across 1/2 through finish line.
Strangely enough, the most consistent hex perks end up being hex:pentimento & Haunted grounds simply because the hex totems are so indefensible that only "high value" totems ever receive is them being destroyed/sacrificed. Their native effects seldomly matter.
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"Tru3 lost Thrill 1 minute into the game losing half his build." - Okay cool? And I lost 3 perks 30 seconds into the game by running finesse, light footed and lucky break against a Plague.
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are you joking or what. his totem is at shack and he goes to shack gen as his 2nd destination in the match. Your so caught up in your own narrative that your disregarding the most basic actions taken in the video. Later on the video, he questions the perk because he was in near immediate vicinity and wonders why he was not able to stop the cleanse. The chat later reminds him that the perk was weaken and then he re-affirms between 5:20-5:30.
He finds a survivor, latches onto them with Victor and then follows them, paying no mind to his totems. Finds another survivor, follows them too, unleashes Victor to latch onto them. He then follows them to shack, where his totem happens to be. Who knows whether Tru3 would have even thought to check on his totems had the survivor not ran there and Victor's killer instinct not literally screamed at him that someone is on his totem. And all of this on a smaller map that is separated into two halves and that most if not all of the survivors can be expected to have spawned on the other side of, where his totems also are. One of them in shack, a spot survivors are likely to spawn at or go to, and the totem in which is impossible to not notice once you do. The fact that he does not check on his totems at latest after the first Victor latch (and then makes snide, trite remarks about "Thrill OP xd" when his totem gets cleansed) speaks to nothing more than his incredibly casual, going-through-the-motions way of playing the game and not thinking much about it.
As others have said, Thrill is not supposed to be a means of making Hexes uncleansable, but making it more reliable to defend them (and making it more of a timesink for survivors to contest them). He could have easily defended his totem(s) here, especially as Twins that can essentially be in two locations at once. Again, that survivor had spent upwards of 30 seconds on that cleanse, had Tru3 simply prioritized checking on his Hexes even just 5 seconds earlier instead of following two different survivors he would have interrupted the cleanse, nullifying all of that time the survivor had spent on it and keeping his totem(s) or at least one of them, with the other becoming Penti (and Penti + Thrill/Ruin is also a really strong setup).
That Tru3 himself acknowledges in the video that Thrill has already gotten nerfed only adds to how ridiculous it is that he uploads this with the intention to demonstrate how "Thrill OP" was some false narrative. Yeah, it's not OP anymore, because it was adjusted accordingly after people pointed out how OP it is… The video in fact if anything supports the argument that it was OP: Had this been 14% Thrill, he would have actually interrupted that survivor on the shack totem, wasting all of that cleansing time, despite never even having thought about protecting it, a survivor literally having to lead him to it and Victor having to yell at him that someone is on his totem… And yet he still 4k'd at 5 gens left… To which the time the survivors spent cleansing, the hit they took for it and the fact that they cleansed at all allowing Tru3 to use Penti will have significantly contributed. That early-game slowdown/pressure is incredibly valuable. Current Thrill even in this match which was basically a worst-case scenario still put in a good amount of value, in many other matches (and with better decision-making by the killer player…) it would get much more value still. And somehow the opinion he comes away with from this is that old Thrill (that was notably stronger still) was falsely made out to have been OP?…
Only in dbd do you get justification where the killer has 4 perks vs 16 perks and destroys perk left & right is like normal. either way, good job killing another perk.
The "4 vs. 16" perks comparison doesn't mean anything. Do you think the game would be balanced if the killer was able to equip 16 perks? Or each survivor only 1 perk? No? Then you already understand that it's not as easy as to say 4 vs. 16. Killer perks work differently and they usually have a much more considerable, consistent and constant impact on matches. Killer perks are also not getting "destroyed left & right". There are incredibly strong killer perks. Ask any good player and they will tell you a top player on a top killer using Pain Res, Grim and DMS is basically unbeatable, even by the best top teams in the world (and you don't have to take anybody's word for it either, this is proven, established fact - I can give you more tournament stats if you want). Doesn't mean I agree with all the nerfs there have been to perks (killer and survivor), or don't think perks should be buffed (tons of them should).
Thrill was actually buffed to be in the state it's in now. Originally it was buffed by 40% (10% → 14%), now it is still 20% better than it had been (10% → 12%). And I much welcome this buff, it's a decently strong perk, take it from someone that enjoys using Hex perks a lot. Having to spend 35 seconds on a totem cleanse instead of 14s is great value. Which perk gives you 21 seconds of pure slowdown multiple times, and the potential of wasting literal minutes of survivor time as you keep interrupting their cleanses? Imagine you interrupt a survivor that has repaired a gen to 40% and it goes back to 0% the second they let go. That's Thrill. And that's not even mentioning the incredible value and threat factor of the Hexes it helps protect.
Go out there and use Thrill + Undying + Penti + Hex of your choosing, play decently and win most of your matches with relative ease. Or try Thrill + Undying + Dominance + Devour. Oppressive, especially on the various killers that have an easy time interrupting totem cleanses. Thrill + Plaything + Pentimento + Ruin/Thana/Blood Favor/Third Seal/Face The Darkness/… on Plague with Black Incense (or just Blight/Nurse/Billy) and you will never lose. And many more Hex builds and constellations that I guarantee 99+% of pub survivor groups will struggle impossibly against if used by a competent killer player.
None of hex perk are worth anything because having life-span of 1 minute, 2 minute, 3 minute is near worthless and virtually hex perks require them to stay up for minutes and minutes to gain value. I am not entirely sure at what point do you consider the hex perks for having "high reward". Maybe 5 minutes? They're not even close to getting across 1/2 through finish line.
This is a way too narrow-minded perspective of what Hex perks do. You can't quantify their value in terms of minutes they are up for, there is this weird obsession with "mathing out" DbD that just always shows how little game understanding the proponents of such ideas have, or how stubbornly they try to push a talking point. If your Devour stays up until you have acquired 3 tokens, the things that perk can and regularly will do to a round are as impossible to quantify as they are to overstate. I have played thousands of matches using Devour, and it's still impressive every time just how hard matches come crashing down for survivors once that third stack is acquired. It's incredible. But even apart from the obviously game-winningly impactful effects of Devour, it's impossible to quantify what, say, Blood Favor can mean for you even if all it does before it's cleansed is allow you to get a very early down. The impact of that too can be game-changing for obvious reasons. And then there's the fact that survivors spend time searching for and cleansing totems, and that the killer can interrupt them doing so, creating a battle for the totems in which the survivors will lose a lot of time, resources, health and hook states and even entire games. Part of the reason why 3-stack Devour much of the time spells catastrophy for survivors is that they then find themselves in a very precarious, often hopeless battle to contest the totem.
Or how about another hint as to how impactful Hexes can be even if they get cleansed in the first minutes of a match: Corrupt Intervention is rightfully regarded as one of the best killer perks in the game, and all it does before it literally disables itself is block 3 generators at the start of the match, slowing down the early game by preventing survivors from being able to instantly hop on gens. Because this slowing-down of the early game is immensely valuable. Hexes can also have this slowdown effect in the early game - on top of course of their respective innate effects - if survivors instead of immediately spreading out to gens sit on totems instead.
Strangely enough, the most consistent hex perks end up being hex:pentimento & Haunted grounds simply because the hex totems are so indefensible that only "high value" totems ever receive is them being destroyed/sacrificed. Their native effects seldomly matter.
I mean, Penti and Haunted Ground add to how good Hex perks are because they allow the killer to capitalize on survivors cleansing totems to begin with, which they would not do if valuable Hex perks didn't exist (and even the global, general threat of their existence can improve Hexes, at times leading to survivors refraining from cleansing totems at the prospect of having to deal with Penti or Haunted).
But regardless, I simply disagree with this argument. Can there be rounds where Hexes get cleansed too quickly for it to have seemed worth it? Absolutely. But over hundreds and thousands of matches, the impact these perks have will be consistent and significant. Especially if you use things like Thrill, Penti, Undying. And actually play around and off of your totems… And there will be just as many matches that these perks will literally carry or decide, contributing majorly. People sleep hard on Devour, and even more so Third Seal. The amount of matches they have handed to me on a silver platter and the way in which they did… Plaything is also pretty crazy. Sure, against highly coordinated full 4-SWFs playing with concise and precise call-outs and whatnot they aren't as crazy. But in 99+% of matches we actually get as killer? Devastation.
How do you explain that Blood Favor and Ruin are among the top 10 most used perks by some of the absolute best killer players in this game, in a tournament where Penti and Haunted aren't even allowed, and in which they face highly coordinated, highly experienced, highly skilled 4-SWF teams that can play around their totems in ways that are unthinkable for any pub group, and in which killers also won considerably more often than they lost? And that's just one example. Hex perks even see common use in restriction-less tournaments. Hex perks are staples in tournament DbD whenever they aren't banned for being considered to be too strong by some of the best, most experienced players in the game. Should be "hint" enough that they're quite alright.
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Killer: 4Ks at 5 gens
Forum killers, somehow: "This is clear evidence that killers are severely disadvantaged and need a buff!"
Never beating the 'forum killers just want 100% average killrates' allegations, I swear to the entity...
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This is the hardest i've laughed at a thread in the entire time i've been on this forum.
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50s is what it took him to reach his TotH totem and only because a survivor brought him there. He couldn't defend the totem because he didn't want to. Then he spins it around saying they all DC because of TotH as if there was any game left after Renato throws it away attempting that stupid bodyblock. Then they DC to not have to sit on their hands for 4 minutes. Power of narrative indeed.
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this isn’t even forum killers, this is just the brats who’s parents didn’t say no. There are people like this on both sides and the best we can do is laugh at them
also hex perks are meant to be strong with the risk of loosing them, it’s like complaining that snow is cold but melts when it’s hot.5 -
Against the 1 killer who counters those things. Survivors can counter any hex used by any killer.
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The concept of things being denied or “perk slots wasted” (even though he won the game so it’s not as if they were wasted anyway) is not new to DBD. My entire build can be centered around healing but I get put against Plauge or Legion. And they didn’t even have to find a hex of mine to render my perks useless. Do your standards apply to survivors too or strictly only killer hex perks?
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Because then you give your hex's location away. The survivors will see you going to it, and assuming nobody was there, they'd still notice, "Why did the killer go where nobody is? That must be where their hex is." It's a lose/lose defending hexes, even with the killers who are "good" at it.
You stopped the totem cleanse. Then what? All you've done is push someone off a hex, as opposed to a gen, and the other 3 are unaccounted for. It's worse than just defending gens.
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Posting a video with a 4ks at 5 gens to prove that thrill nerf was unjustified. But survivors are the entitled babies right?
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Why do you think that is?
In the words of G-Eazy, "think I know, I've got a hunch"
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NO WAY!?? HE LOST THRILL IN ONLY A MINUTE!??! 😱😱😱😱
CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE THAT THRILL IS NOW DOG TIER 🐕🐕
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Hexes are perks with powerful effects that can be removed, and that is the point.
They can be removed. They are not supposed to last the entire match, it wouldn't be balanced if they did.
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hexes have always been trash because their spawn and the time it takes to get rid of them is ridiculously easy for survivors... Most of the times you are running a meme build if you have a hex
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Against the one killer? did you forget Legion? or forever healing Doc? This stuff goes both ways bud.
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Yes lets edit the picture out with how many upvotes it has. Good old mod. I almost got too comfortable there... 🤦🏻♂️
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how is it even possible to complain even when you win in a complete blowout
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There are two ways to run a thrill build.
1 - you run thrill with hexes and pentimento, and don't interrupt cleanses. Survivors waste a lot of time, even more if thrill is cleansed later, and you get penti totems and a huge advantage. As seen here.
2 - you run thrill with hexes and play a killer that can defend them. You don't care if survivors know where the totem is, in fact you encourage it, since you will be pushing them off of it and using the effects of the hex to stop gens and make chases fast. The hex in question spawned inside shack where a gen is, there's no "giving away", survivors will know about it anyway. And stopping to check it once in a while is fine, especially pre-nerf where you would only have to interrupt with a killer that can interrupt it once every 40+ seconds. Not an impossible task while defending gens on twins by any means.
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