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Why do people think any killer can harm the entity?
It makes no sense to me, especially that we can disprove some of the killers easily.
Myers came out in 2016, back when moris were able to kill people without hooking them even once. Every killer had the ability to do what myers does until now and the only reason he has this ability now is because devs didn't touch him that much. His model is really outdated, power is really bad and the only good thing about him is fun, this includes tombstone addons. Another argument is confirmation from devs in #111 livestream that killing survivors feeds the entity as much. Add to the fact that pig has power based aroung it and not just an addon. Also spirit and hag have an entire perk centered aroung killing survivors, a perk imo has greater value than an addon given by the entity. But it also can be argued that it's under control of the entity which just proves my point even more. He is also weaker than Pyramid head and here we can really prove it's not the case for him either.
Pyramid head can be argued to be strong enough to deal damage to the entity because of the agreement (here I also have a greater theory about entity but I need to still work on it so I'll just say it was all planned) yet we can see in power description of pyramid head that something is wrong.
It straight up says that you hold off the entity. Yeah… that is just enough for me to prove that he is in fact not stronger than spider god.
Pinhead is another example. Well first let's start with the fact that we also were supposed to get the map with him. That kind of proves that entity want's him here. The box being in the realm is not just an accident too, entity is not dumb, it thinks, plans and manipulates… so to say that pinhead forced himself here because box was solved is not enough. You can say that in his mori he sends survivors to hell! But that's not true. We don't know where he sends them and end game screen shows us that they in fact are dead. Also he has no built in ability to kill survivors, so he is weaker than pig or spirit I guess.
Sadako is a similar case. Others can kill too, she's not really special.
Now Vecna. I can uderstand why but I think we can easily disprove how much power he could possibly have over entity. Vecna had to choose to be a killer to even get into the realm. He had to choose to allow nerfs on him, similar to Freddy but Freddy didn't had a choice. If Vecna was able to force himself into the realm and gain knowledge and control with just his powers then he would have done that. I mean Vigo was able at best to escape the void (not the realm) same as blight.
So this leaves us with two killers now. Dracula and Blight. I think that if Vecna is not stronger then Dracula won't be too. Also I don't really see I reason to think he is stronger. But what about blight? It's easy. In quickfire interview on 4:00 minute when Mathew was asked if blighted serum can hurt the entity he simply said "no".
So that's it. There really wasn't anything to talk about some killers (mainly sadako and Dracula) because either there was nothing to say or I was too lazy. So can someone explain why is that the case if there is so much evidence agianst it?
Comments
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Well first let's start with the fact that we also were supposed to get the map with him.
What's your source for that?
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dveet so take it with a grain of sault
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A major grain of salt in every sense of the word. So much so that it could never be taken as a fact, since Dvveet got the info from Masus and all he provided was just a ''trust me bro'' as evidence, same with the supposed Sadako map.
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yes but dvveet leaked a lot of stuff that became true so not that major grain of salt. Also it's not the main part of my argument unlike stuff about myers, pyramid head and blight. There really isn't anything to disprove about pinhead to begin with since there is no evidence that pinhead is able to defeat the entity
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I could write 3 paragraphs as to why exactly that much grain of salt is required for it, however to save time and not divert the topic of the thread any further than it already has, i'm just gonna say the following and leave it at that.
Dvveet have never leaked anything himself at all, others have always done it for him while all he did was post it for easy clout, as well as blindly believing and defending everything he's told by those same people like a complete bootlicker regardless of how true any of it was or wasn't that weren't renders or visual imagery of actual unreleased cosmetics or content from chapters.
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As far as the actual topic goes, here's my own POV on the matter.
- Dracula (if he wanted to) is possibly the only killer at the moment who could potentially stand up to The Entity in due time when he has regained his strength from his last defeat at the hands of the Belmonts, however as demonstrated in-game by his lobby voicelines and even by one of the devs stating that the only reeason he's in the fog is because he wants to be there, he has no reason to do so.
- I doubt Vecna would have won if he and The Entity tried to actually duke it out in his lore, instead of letting it take him, since he's in his arch-lich form and not in his god form like so many that i've seen claim him to be. In time however, he might be able to do so, but as of currently, not a chance.
- Pinhead cannot return to hell because The Lament Configuration has been tampered with by The Entity as seen in-game, as no matter how many times it's interacted with, no gateway to hell is created. Same way his mori never shows Survivors end up in hell despite his mori voicelines. He is for all we know stuck in the realm at The Entity's mercy, just like most others in the lore. (Although The Cenobite's god Leviathan would be a different story entirely.)
- Myers despite being evil incarnated is still human at the end of the day and if we go by the Halloween 2018 timeline, he can be weakened by simply just preventing him from killing anyone to power him up, to the point where he can be permanently killed.
- Pyramid Head's existence relies solely on The Entity keep it's agreement with it. If The Entity suddenly doesn't need it's presence anymore, it will just go back to stop existing again like it was about to before it entered the realm. Also cages counts as hooks and carving the ground with POTD doesn't mean it harms The Entity directly, so there's that.
- Sadako is just the movie version of Sadako and doesn't have all her crazy attributes from the novels like her counterpart there does. Not to mention that it's easy for a character to be the strongest one that exist in their own universe when they're written to be as such, since no one else is even remotely close to her level of power, unlike in DBD where the multiverse is an aspect.
- The rest of the killers ain't worth addressing.
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I mean yeah such grain of salt is needed but only if it was the main topic and not a small part of my arguments. Also I didn't really created an greater explanation on how lorewise it looks for those killers and focused mainly on evidence so I give you a point for creativity. But I don't agree with Dracula as he can be killed by a belmont so entity could just give the whip back to him if dracula wanted to do something more. Other than that I don't really know how powerful Dracula is but I don't think he's an Elder God power level type of character but I agree that he could potentially escape entity's realm.
Also I forgot about lament configuration being used like it's nothing which is some actual evidence compared to what I said.
Also isn't Sadako actually from books? Because now that I check the teaser for Sadako it says "From the original story" and has name of the author of the book at the bottom with all the licensing stuff.
Aside from the that I agree with what you said.
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I mean yeah such grain of salt is needed but only if it was the main topic and not a small part of my arguments. Also I didn't really created an greater explanation on how lorewise it looks for those killers and focused mainly on evidence so I give you a point for creativity. But I don't agree with Dracula as he can be killed by a belmont so entity could just give the whip back to him if dracula wanted to do something more. Other than that I don't really know how powerful Dracula is but I don't think he's an Elder God power level type of character but I agree that he could potentially escape entity's realm.
Dracula is the Avatar of Chaos in the Castlevania universe, which is the eldritch personification of darkness, the antithesis of God and the source of Dracula's immense power. Chaos itself is linked to Dracula's castle which houses evils of all kinds, including death itself, who will seek to resurrect Dracula if he should fall.
I think it's fair to suggest that Dracula himself would stand a decent chance if he decided to square off against the spider god of the realm.
Also isn't Sadako actually from books? Because now that I check the teaser for Sadako it says "From the original story" and has name of the author of the book at the bottom with all the licensing stuff.
The teaser states the following and i quote ''A key piece of horror history is joining Dead by Daylight’s expansive roster. Prepare for Ringu to spread its curse across The Fog, with a new Chapter inspired by Kōji Suzuki’s novel and the original acclaimed film adaptation.'' Keyword here is inspired by, not based on.
Nothing in the Ring chapter itself ties back to novel apart from the movie adapation itself that the chapter is talking about, which is based on the novel in of itself. That's literally it as outside that, there is nothing else.
- All the add-ons connects back to Ringu 1 & 2.
- Yoichi himself only exist in the movie adaptation and his dbd lore is based on his lore of Ringu 1 & 2.
- Sadako's lore is a direct recap of her origin story in Ringu 1, along with a ''here's how she end up in the realm'' being sprinkled ontop of it at the end of the recap.
It is completely based on the movie adaptation, if there is anything related to the novels, it isn't something i can find.
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My point with belmont and the whip still stands tho. Also there are other killers that joined the realm from their free will. I still think that the only way we can confirm someone defeating the entity is if we would know if we can even defeat the entity. And the closest to that we have devs confirming they won't deconfirm fan theories about alan wake. That's literally the best we got and I still see people acting like it's an actual confirmation of their theories. I can't actually imagine dbd's realm being just a part of dark place true, it just doesn't make sense for bhvr to throw their entire lore like that away for a licensed character.
And thanks for the clarification about Sadako.
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Thing to keep in mind is that we don't fully know everything about The Entity itself, so we cannot accurately estimate how powerful it is in comparison to other characters. It is simply just an assumption that Dracula would stand a decent chance against The Entity given the nature of his character and his powers, however since the devs intentionally keep the full extend of The Entity's powers and limits vague to a certain extent, any form of power scaling becomes impossible to accurately do.
As far as Alan Wake goes, his presence in DBD takes place at some unspecified point in time during his 13 years of being trapped in the dark place and given that he doesn't have the clicker nor any papers for his typewriter that he finds at the campfire at the end of his tome cinematic. There's no way he could ever defeat The Entity, at most he would find a way to escape back to his writer cabin in the dark place, but that's about it.
Also one of the devs straight up told people on stream that they'll let the community determine if Alan created his own pocket version of DBD in an attempt to escape the dark place or if The Entity abducted him like everyone else.
You're right with The Dark Place not being the same place as The Realm, because aside from the fact that both places function entirely different from one another and how one is controlled by a lovecraftian being while the other is not, there is nothing that could prove it to actually be the case. Unless it got stated to be the case in-game, it's all pretty much based on speculation. Nothing more and nothing less.
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I do actually think that one of the better explanations for Alan Wake is that dark place could be a part of the realm same way as the observer's tower is or the void for example. I do think that we see too many examples of entity manipulating and pretty much ######### with people's minds to the point where the idea he did the same to Alan Wake to make him a better survivor doesn't seem that far off to me. Especially that devs already confirmed in #111 livestream that entity went out of his way to manipulate for a long time spirit's father to make him the killer. When he choose spirit instead all of entity's manipulation faded away from his mind and he realised what he just did. Kind of sad if you think about it.
Add to the fact that fog or auris can create things from nothing or light being a weak spot for both the entity and dark place. But it really is just another explanation that we can't prove nor disprove. I thing it's ultimately meaningless as we'll never see devs confirm or deconfirm it. Also it would be canon only for dbd.
Adding to Dracula thing we know that Entity succesfuly destroyed worlds before. If I remember correctly observer is from one of the worlds where there's no one left on earth. There is also a world where entity sends spider monsters to kill of humanity. Which makes him more succesful at what dracula wanted to do too.
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Smoe's already done a good job explaining why none of the "Entity Destoyers" are actually up to par, so I'll leave that alone, but the answer to why people actually believe these things can be chalked up to multiple things, all of which kind of lead into each other:
- A refusal to actually read the lore themselves coupled with a lack of critical thinking.
- The community's incredible ability to take any an all theories at complete face value and accept them as canon (Dredge being a miniature Entity or Pyramid Head causing damage to the Entity being the two big ones I can think of) BECAUSE they refuse to read the lore themselves, which then leads into them not reading the lore because they think they already know it.
- Content creators who basically advertise themselves as "lore experts" who have a habit of adding their own spin on the lore instead of actually telling it how it is, which not only leads to complete those nonsense theories being taken as pure fact due to their reach and influence, but also leads to misinformation surrounding characters (which can also be genuinely dangerous in the case of Jonah and Nurse) because people DON'T READ THE LORE THEMSELVES AND THEN CALL THEMSELVES EXPERTS AND REFUSE TO READ IT. Pixel's probably the worst offender (he's definitely the biggest creator), but I don't think ANY of them are actually reliable.
Basically, the people who actually care about the lore get drowned out by those who only care about the sparknotes version, which leads to fact and theory getting all jumbled up, capitalized on by content creators for clout because they KNOW that people will go to them first and actually read for themselves never.
This is how we end up with stupid theories like the Entity being terrified of MYERS of all people when he's pretty bottom of the barrel in terms of power, or Pyramid Head being a parasite who tortures the Entity, or cosmic-level Sadako, or Dredge being a juvenile version of the Entity, and I could honestly just write an entire novel with how many of these there are.
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it's funny because pixel himself doesn't believe that a single killer can actually harm the entity and the whole pyramid head thing was, as he himself stated in the video, just what he thinks should be the actual reason of why pyramid head is here. Which just adds to the ignorance people have in dead by daylight's community
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This is the problem with popular opinions/sentiments when they're either based on community sentiments alone or misinformation.
You can tell as many people as you want why those sentiments are incorrect and why what you're telling them is actually the correct information related to a subject and not the popular sentiment that people commonly believe or tells others. Regardless of how many you end up convincing, it will never be enough to change the popular perception completely as people will either continue to still believe old information regardless of any evidence you provide them or they just regugitate old information because they haven't learnt anything else about the subject in all this time.
Trust me, i've tried repeatedly to spread correct information to change certain popular sentiments. Sadako in DBD being from both the novels and the movies is one of those popular sentiment examples that i try to correct whenever i see it.
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Honestly, dbd lore content creators is probably my least favorite part of this community.
Pixel especially is someone who i take great issue with due to several of his videos spreading his own bias about the lores he covers, as he's clearly presenting his biased view on said lores in a way that portrays them as if they're the objectively correct ways of interpreting those lores.
His Nurse, Pyramid Head, Singularity & Jonah videos being the worst offenders of the bunch. Honorable mention goes to his Vittorio video.
Post edited by Smoe on0 -
yeah but I think it's more the issue with the people who didn't read the lore. Personally I had some problems with his interpretation of singularity lore. mainly I didn't like how he acted like singularity was a killer robot made to be good at it when it's clear it wasn't programmed to harm the crew (see what I did there). his mistakes are human mistakes and that's the point. unlike for example am who was a war machine with sole purpose of killing the enemy. I can't say that about others 'cause I didn't read jonah and nurse tomes 'cause I didn't finish them in game and forgot to do it on wiki.
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I had people straight up saying that "there is some other force that sent pyramid head to the realm do harm the entity" and when I presented them the most obvious evidence I love to use they said "maybe that's just the entity trying to get as much as it wants". honestly they sounded like me when I was 12 years old? so I don't blame them honestly if that's the case. I just really don't get it how these people can talk about the lore like they know it when they don't even bother to check the information.
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My problem with his Singularity video is also with his interpretation of Singularity as well, but more so is actually about his Gabriel video and how he starts pissing and moaning about how a female background character in someone else's story being treated like a background character instead of getting main character treatment is somehow bad.
Claims that it's portraying her as a damsel in distress just because she doesn't save anyone like the rest of the background characters does at least once (who mind you) all ######### dies in the end along with her regardless.
_With Nurse, he outright claims that she was character assassinated/retconned from her base lore, stating that her base lore portrayed her as a caring person who went insane because of the inhumane treatment that the patients at the asylum suffered by because of the staff working there, only for the tome to do a 180 and suddenly make her believe in eugenics for no apparent reason.
Problem with it is that this is all just complete bias talk on his part because the tome story didn't live up to his (and other people who was in the same boat as him) own interpretation of the base lore. A base lore mind you that was already incredibly vague and barebone to begin with.
I've read Nurse's tome lore multiple times and there is nothing in it that can't be explained, linked back to the base lore or refuted as to why it's neither a retcon nor an actual character assassination of Nurse's portrayal in the base lore.
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With Jonah, there are quite a few problems, however the one that annoys me the most is that Pixel calls him a war criminal because he bombed civilians and acts like Jonah intentionally did it, while portraying the rebels as the good guys. Not to mention how he should have taken the money from the CIA instead of the rebels for the families that suffered from his mistake.
Problem here is that pixel completely leaves out the fact that Jonah was deceived by the rebels who sent out the decoy code to begin with.
Also the fact that Pixel calls him a war criminal when Jonah's action cannot be considered a war crime. As for it to be considered as one, Jonah would have required to have intentionally wanted to hit the civilians in the first place, however because his actions was unintentional since he got tricked, it legally wouldn't be considered as one.
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Keep in mind the Entity does have plant like/organic-like elements to it.
That's where the 'hallowed blight' came from, as it's said the entity would undergo a yearly 'purge' of some kind which causes it to become blighted and sprout the pustula flowers. From these flowers is where the serum is distilled and created by Talbot aka The Blight himself. This has since stopped since that series of events has concluded but it makes you wonder what would cause the Entity to need to 'purge' itself like that, almost like it was infected with a disease or something.
The serum also reanimates the dead into zombie-like creatures, as seen with the blighted rat/crow addons for example.
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yes but as I said serum can't hurt the entity in any way as confirmed by Mathew
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I think the problem with pixel is that he bases his opinion about the lore around the fact if he likes the character in the first place. I also don't like his opinion on dredge's lore. "Cult being an obvious cult and people still go into it?" have he seen people in real life? Have he seen the type of ######### people will believe for no reason?
Also Dredge can be fog and not want his flesh to be injured, because he needs it to attack survivors. It's kind of obvious but there are also many explanations you can create that work too, Pixel is just too lazy to come up with any of them. To be fair you can't care for everything but I don't really think he should present it like a fact when you can easily counter it, especially that his whole videos are subjective.
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Completely forgot about his Dredge video, it will never not be ironic to me how despite him saying in the video that it's just his opinion, he still ends up presenting it in a way that makes it sounds like he's presenting some objective facts.
I always saw it as no different than when people need to "purge" their excrement from their body when going to the toilet.
After all, if the realm is The Entity's entire body and consuming people's souls and emotions is it eating to sustain itself, then the blight purge is probably the equivalent to it taking a dump.
Post edited by Smoe at0
