http://dbd.game/killswitch
Advice for Killer players: Never play nice.
This is something very important if you want to have peaceful and fun matches. Never play nice with Survivors. What do you think is happening with the other Survivors you do silly spins with one Survivor? If you think anything but "pushing through gens and try harding for the 4 man out" then you are wrong.
And also any sign of weakness you show will often be used to insult you. There are countless examples of this. A short while ago I played Vecna. All 4 Survivors were still alive but one was dead on hook, but then she got the Eye of Vecna. I found her, but I wanted to be nice and let her to get the achievement so I just went away to find another Survivor. They all got out and insulted me in end game chat. Similarly a while ago I was playing Pig and a Survivor brought a RPD offering and I generously assumed they only wanted the achievement. In End game I saw a survivor who was injured, headtrapped and dead on hook run away. But I was feeling silly so I did snoop boopes, spins and slow ambushes with another Survivor and they got out. "Noob Killer", "Ez", "Learn to play". Any niceity will very likely get weaponised against you. So don't even try. Hell, I recently ran into a bully squad where 1 Survivor tried to play silly with me, meanwhile the other 3 were pushing through gens and as soon as I started chasing that Survivor for real they ran in with BG player, flashbangs, sabotages, etc. Playing nice only hurts you.
Even if you win, being nice is punished. If you give hatch, yeah they might be nice then but what if you need adept next game? If you give people the expectation your going to give hatch many are going to be toxic if you don't. And if you subtly give hatch by not looking for it and just breaking walls and pallets and stuff, many are going to be toxic because they "won" by beating you to hatch.
This game is already toxic, but counterintuitively being nice just makes it worse, not better.
You're going to be called toxic for anything anyway. The Survivor runs to hook and your chasing them? You're getting accused of camping hook. You're getting your first kill before 8 hooks? You're getting accused of tunneling. You play Legion? You're getting accused of toxic mend simulator. You play tombstone Myers? You're accused of abusing OP add ons. You play Sadako, Freddy, Plague, Singularity? Damn, you're accused of abusing difficult to understand killers for easy wins. You play Nurse, Billy, Blight, Spirit? You're getting accused of abusing OP killers. You bring a pride flag charm? You're going to get insulted for that by toxic Surviors too. No matter what you do, you will constantly get insulted almost every single game. Don't bother trying to do play nice. It won't fix it. It will make it worse.
Hard Tunnel as hard as you need. Slug as hard as you need. Camp as hard as you need. 3 Gen as much you need. Many Survivors will be toxic anyway, so just play for your own fun. Not for theirs.
Many Survivors think they are entitled to the win. This also likely the reason Survivors are disproportional more likely to be hackers. They think they deserve to escape every game so they try their hardest to make sure they do that. And they will be toxic if that doesn't work out. And if it works out they are toxic because they think they are better than you.
So just do yourself a favour and don't even start.
And just in case someone wants to comment to disagree with me. Thats fine. But keep in mind that if you read my post carefully you can see I never said "all Survivors" only "many Survivors." I also never explictly advocated for Slugging, Camping or Tunneling. I just said everyone should do it as much as they need. If you feel like you never need it, great feel free to play like that.
Lastly, if you think what I am describing doesn't match the actual game, this is my honest opinion. Please be nice, there is no reason to belittle or name call anyone, and keep the discussion productive.
Comments
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Counter advice for both sides: Don't be an arse.
You don't have to strictly be nice, but if you're not mean then if the other side is actually nice won't turn into another common arse.
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Idk bout you, but I've gotten thank yous and ggs from people i let out. Even gotten people telling me I'm really good. The trick is, if you can, you slug them enough so they understand that you can kill them at any time. I don't do it to be mean, just maxing my blood points, but they get the point too lol. Often times, they'll line up at the exit gates for a slug race. It's fun. You could try that approach.
Anyone i deem toxic though, i kill immediately and let the rest go. Or if someone is trying to go next I'll slug and go back and forth on them (hehe) for a min cause going next is bad. Sometimes, their teammates would join too cause going next is an epidemic rn and ruins the game imo.
Hope this helps. Remember to slug them enough. That's key.
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I’m sorry to hear about your negative game experiences. I should count myself lucky considering that I play on console and there’s no end game chat.
However, many Survivors do offer me their item at end game. I can't see that as anything other than respect. So there is a counter force. It may not be super obvious but it is there.
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What's with all the nihilism over a computer game? If a game makes you this bitter, then sorry to say it, but you need to go work on yourself. Go find something that's actually worthwhile in life to invest your time in. Maybe then a game won't cause you to spiral this bad.
You won't be able to isolate this kind of attitude to just the game, it will infect your entire personality. Feel free to embrace it, but don't start complaining when you end up as a friendless, miserable sod. Nobody wants to be around someone with such a lousy attitude.
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Don’t feel bad about playing killer the way you want to play. Some survivors will be toxic no matter what you do because they can’t be mature about losing in a video game. But also don’t go out of your way to be toxic to others, like purposely bleeding out an individual or team if they haven’t done anything toxic to you. Treat others how you would like to be treated.
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I don’t go out of my way to tunnel, slug, or camp, but I also don’t go out of my way to avoid doing them either. If the survivors are grouped up, I’ll slug one to attack another in the immediate area (especially if I’m playing Leatherface). If I find a just-unhooked person before someone else, then I guess it’s tunnel time. If survivors are trying to unhook in my face or otherwise just hovering around the hook, I’m roasting marshmallows.
I used to try to play “nice” but it always got thrown back in my face, so now I just play how I want and if that means someone gets slugged or tunneled or camped, oh well.
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Counterargument: Play in the way that feels right to you, and disregard negative feedback.
If you're playing "nice" because you're looking for reward, you're not really being nice. Do the right thing because it's the right thing. Or play mean if that's how you want to play.
I play respectfully (most of the time) because that's how I would like to be treated if it were me. That's life; people aren't always going to reciprocate good vibes. I'll often spare teams of potatoes who are so green that they don't know they're being spared and will BM me. I just laugh it off.
But if it really just eats at a person, that's a them issue.
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I’ll play however I want, thanks.
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Meh, my advice would be play to improve your skills and your fundamentals, don't play to win. Try to win sure, but don't play with winning as your primary goal.
Playing meta perks and strats constantly makes you reliant and lazy. Take weak killers, experiment with all kinds of add-ons and perks, make silly builds and don't fallback to excessive slugging and tunneling constantly. You can win with these things, they are tools in your toolbox, but if you allow yourself to always take the easy path to victory, you won't have an extra gear to turn up to when you need it.
If you play for self growth rather than wins: -
- The outcome of the match doesn't matter
- Hatch doesn't matter
- Teabags don't matter
- Bull squads don't matter
- Arrogant end game chat warriors who think they're something special for escaping vs. A Pig with Iron Maiden don't matter
- Salty biscuits who whine against a Trapper running Distressing/Unnerving Presense don't matter
Its amazing how much more fun the game becomes when you get impressed by survivors playing well and teaching you something, instead of getting mad you lost.
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You can say the same thing with killers.
I had a slow walking Chucky with an end game build with Blood Warden who was pretending to "be nice" but essentially was trying to trick the survivors.
Point being, everyone will play scummy and will do anything to win. It's why when I play, I don't generally take it "easy". If a killer is acting suspicious, I normally think they're either trying to derank for lower MMR (still takes a long time), they act nice to a specific "character", or they are doing what the Chucky did in my above ^ example.
I do have my nice little moments, I played against a nodding Wesker on PC and him and I started off where he saw me and aggressively nodded at me but we still played accordingly.
Other times, at end game - like this Onryo I faced we had a moment and she allowed me to get the door because I dropped my item and we nodded at one another.
You can have nice moments, but I generally am very competitive minded with this game because I know how some killers are as I've experienced many times humping, bleeding out with Wraith dinging his bell, smacking you on hook (before anti-camp meter), and anything else that are particularly bming. I still remember a Bubba humping me on the ground during Lights Out!
So, no I don't take it easy on the killer due to the behaviors I described above. I feel bad when gens are rushing, but I know on the flip side from a killer that they will not feel bad if he's snowballing and hooking multiple people.
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This 100%.
I remember games where I deliberately chased the "best survivor" so I could improve. Didn't really care if I lost the game because in the long run I learned something.
Everyone complains about "weak M1" killers, but if you can learn to chase and macro well on trapper, that knowledge and game sense applies to every single other killer in the game.
Although, I'll also note that there are a disturbingly large number of people on this forum who have the mindset that they're already gods at the game ("Max MMR") and their ego insists that they can't possibly learn anything more.
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Advice in return: dont even try to play skillful.
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I enjoy the game and never said otherwise. I am just sharing advice on how to avoid other players insulting you. If I post tips telling someone how to avoid getting in a fight in youtube comments, that doesn't mean I hate youtube lol.
Post edited by VibranToucan on0 -
It wasn't programmed to harm the crew
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That's what happens when they get the cheap knock-off WD40 for you!
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I wish I could say this thread is wrong but unfortunately my experience is if you try to goof off or not play very seriously most survivors will use it as an excuse to BM which is unfortunate. Don't get me wrong it doesn't mean I'm gonna go out of my way to grief survivors or BM them or anything. Things like "humping" and bleeding out is still incredibly cringe to me but I generally tend not to have a lot of mercy during games simply because that's the thing that seems to keep the BM away.
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There's the gaslighting. You really think that the game and its community has nothing to do with it? The game has a golden formula, which makes it fun, and that's why people play even when they don't have the best time. People would rather invest themselves in the game and hope for it to improve, even if it's in a rough patch, rather than to abandon it. Doesn't that sound like the opposite of nihilism to you?
It's like the pushback against people in real life who've decided to put their foot down, and upset others for the purpose of teaching them a life lesson. "How could you do such a cruel thing?!" It's about voicing your disapproval to things that seem wrong. He's seeing that when killers play nice, they get just as harsh treatment back as if they were doing the "toxic" strategies. So he said enough is enough, and shared his revelation with others, that they need not play nice, and should instead focus on playing the best they can. The people advocating against that, and saying that you should throw the game so that your opponents can have more fun, when they'll never do the same for you... they're either delusional or just ignorant.
I don't know what logic you're going off of that you came up with all of that, but this person's experience is not unique. Tons of people complain about the game, some more constructively than others, and they still have friends outside of the game. It's easy to character assassinate someone, and imply things about them that you can't possibly know, especially when it suits your side's narrative (or just yours alone). That is what's wrong with this community. They're more concerned with insults, and trying to make others feel as insane and alone as possible, rather than with improving the game.
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Wow, people BM and trashtalk in a PvP game, I can't believe it !
Seriously just get over it. It's just common behaviour, people release tension, that's it.
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We're tired of improving. At 3000-5000 hours in, we expect to start seeing the fruits of our labor, but instead we get continually told to get better. Well, when is the survivors' time to get better? I haven't seen it. They've had the same broken tiles and perks for years, and it's such a taboo to criticize those things, that killers have bought into it and turned to blaming stuff like Windows for their defeats. It's the loops, not Windows, that's to blame for straight-up not being able to get good survivors.
We want to win, because that's how skill is shown and how reward is given in every other game in the world. I hate this "invent your own win condition" idea. Now, we do win, but not enough at the times when it truly matters. Anybody can beat a subpar survivor team. It's why killers supposedly go on all these long streaks, numbering in the triple or sometimes quadruple digits (poppycock). But the moment 1 decent team appears, it's over. I'm experienced at running no-gen defence builds, and the time crunch is absolutely ridiculous. It's like there's a certain amount of time you need to kill the survivors, and the game only gives you half that much time. And if you do run gen defence, then you sacrifice info or lethality, leading to an equal lack of momentum. So all you're doing, really, is counting on survivors to make blunder after blunder, or else I guess you just lose, and then get told "You can't win them all." We'd love to legitimately get outplayed and call it GGs, but that almost never happens.
Saying that tunneling and slugging is the easy path, and that it's a crutch and gives you stuff you didn't earn, is just wrong. Like, what do you mean? It takes a certain amount of game awareness just to realize those strategies are the best. Then comes execution. You have to still maintain quick time to down to even make the strategies work, especially slugging. Doing these things isn't at the cost of practicing on chase; they're done at the same time.
I like the idea that you can simply let go and not really care as much, just like I don't get as mad anymore at losing these scripted matches. But you can become so detached from the tension of the game that you don't even want to play anymore. That's what we don't want to do: throw in the towel. That's 1 of 2 things I think a lot of the playerbase wants to have happen to killer players. The second would be to just keep playing killer no matter what, even though the game literally doesn't support the ability for the role to win. It's been said countless times recently, about hooking, downing, injuring, and even chasing continually becoming less worthwhile. You just look at the history of balance changes, and there's your proof. Whereas survivors cried injustice about losing infinites, instaheals, keys that let you skip the gens, DS that could only deactivate through the timer, and DH for distance, killers lost... stuff that made the gens slower or chases faster… when they played well. 🤷♀️ It's not their fault that the survivor's objective is way faster than theirs, and the gap keeps getting wider.
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So…instead of continuing to fight the good fight as it were…you'd rather people give up and start contributing to the problem?
Excellent idea.
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If you want to play nice and avoid the BMing from survivors, it’s best to make the decision before the match starts. I’ll go add-on less and perk less, and play the game going for hooks. Anyone who BM’s will be sacrificed if I down them on death hook, and the others I will down in end game if I catch them. I’ll swipe at the air to signal their friends to pick them up and walk away. Kind of hard to talk smack to someone who obviously went easy on your team. And for those who BMed and died, i imagine them being salty losing to a perkless and add-on less Trapper who didn’t camp, tunnel, or slug. Plus they’ll know the teabagging got them killed while their buddies who were just trying to play the game got to enjoy the chases while gens were still up and escaped.
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I read all of this, and you make a lot of good points, and to be fair I do feel like I agree with a lot of your perspective. I apologise for the length of this response, but there are a lot of points you discuss and a lot of nuance I feel is needed to be added. 😁
Survivor Skill and Tunneling/Slugging
Well, when is it survivors time to get better?
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Saying that tunnelling and slugging is the easy path, and gives you stuff you didn't earn is just wrong.
I whole heartedly agree, and am one of the first to point the finger at survivors who make things harder for their team. I've maintained for quite a while that tunneling and slugging are largely something that largely only happens if the survivors present the killer with the opportunity to do it.
There are exceptions to this, but for 95% of cases, this holds true, and I do firmly believe if you give the killer the chance to do it, you can't attribute blame to the killer. This is a 7 min video I made a while back to discuss this nuance of tunnelling with a friend of mine. I don't expect you to watch this video, but it illustrates the difference between hard tunneling and opportunistic tunneling.
The short version is I played pretty poorly in this game, a lot of hold W and pre-throwing, but while I did get "tunnelled" by definition, Wicked shows the Xeno made no special effort to single me out and shunt me out of the game. Both instances were me getting caught after a teammate stuffed me.
- 2:50 - Yoichi had the killers attention, but rather than take the killer away from loop and away from me, he doubles back right into me, letting the Xeno find me for a second chase and second hook.
- 4:20 - Ripley more egregiously brings the killer straight to me even though I'm in the far off corner of the map trying to stay away from the action on Death Hook.
In both of these instances I know neither meant to sell me out, but both cases were mistakes that resulted in me being tunneled out of the game. These aspects of the game absolutely need to remain as part of the game... killers should not be punished for survivors making mistakes.
My point in relation to tunneling and slugging is they should be used in appropriate situations. However... there are players who are going hard on them from minute one, without even trying to create pressure. In relation to the OP, you're not "playing nice" and yes, these strategies will run over weaker survivor teams... however I don't believe hard Tunneling and Slugging is more effective at winning the game than opportunistic Tunneling and Slugging, in fact I believe you put the game on more of a coin flip based on perks in play and skill of your targets. The argument I am making is if you play this way against weak survivors, you become a one trick who doesn't learn how to apply pressure without these strategies, and so if you cone up against survivors who can punish you for it, you have no other answer.
WoO and the Strength of Loops
that killers have bought into it and turned to blaming stuff like Windows for their defeats. It's the loops, not Windows, that's to blame for straight-up not being able to get good survivors.
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It's why killers supposedly go on all these long streaks, numbering in the triple or sometimes quadruple digits (poppycock). But the moment 1 decent team appears, it's over. I'm experienced at running no-gen defence builds, and the time crunch is absolutely ridiculous.
I think you're spot on that all WoO does is reveal the problems of DBD loops than cause the problem. My stance on WoO has always been the same issue as described above with regards to tunneling and slugging, players become overly reliant on it and don't learn any other nuances. I've taken on board previous discussions with yourself and others regarding WoO, and revised my stance to conclude that WoO is actually good for killers... it ensures a certain amount of baseline consistency for survivor map use to learn your killer. However I still.maintain for survivor it is a highly detrimental perk for your growth and development.
The thing about this though is while yes, there are certain maps and loops that are extremely strong for survivors, the same is true also of killers, but there is a caveat in both cases, because killers come in many shapes and forms. What is strong and weak depends very much on the killer in question, e.g. Huntress, Singularity and Blight all have very different problems with different tiles, and to try and make maps perfect so they are balanced for all killer powers is quite simply untenable.
The fact is not all killers are created equal, so trying to define a "balanced map" is kinda a pipe dream. The best you can hope for is maps are varied enough that some killers powers flourish, while others struggle, with the hope of this averages out across the whole roster of killers/maps. Sadly some powers, like Nurse and Blight, are so versatile that they don't really have a bad map for skilled enough players... and with regards to maps, you have this problem that there is a need to define what is the "correct" playstyle of DBD that maps have to cater to?
In regards to "playing nice", your ability to catch survivors at loops and tiles obviously has a correlation to your need to slug and tunnel, camp, 3gen, play mean, etc. I think any objectively reasonable person would say if you're on a heavily survivor sided map that your killer is bad on, it's a bit more reasonable to go a little hardball. However this ties back to my original point... if you always go hardball every game, there is no "second gear" you can go up to.
And this ties in to my final discussion point...
Desire to Win and Self Driven Goals
We're tired of improving. At 3000-5000 hours in, we expect to start seeing the fruits of our labor, but instead we get continually told to get better.
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We want to win, because that's how skill is shown and how reward is given in every other game in the world. I hate this "invent your own win condition" idea. Now, we do win, but not enough at the times when it truly matters.
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I like the idea that you can simply let go and not really care as much, just like I don't get as mad anymore at losing these scripted matches. But you can become so detached from the tension of the game that you don't even want to play anymore. That's what we don't want to do: throw in the towel.
I can see why you hold this position, and at the end of the day, your motivation to play is entirely your own to decide. You can't be wrong in how you enjoy the game, and how you measure skill is your own metric... but I would argue you've fallen into the trap of kills=skill.
What sticks out to me here is you saying "you want to win". There is nothing wrong with wanting to win, but to my mind this mentality causes a negative feedback loop. If you keep playing to win, you'll obviously beat players playing subpar, and you will go up against better survivors who get progressively better and sweatier as well... this is the natural outcome. In this environment you can't afford to simply play anything you want to play or enjoy, play anything fun, or interesting... you have to take the best killers, the best perks and using the strategies most likely to break survivors, and run it hard at all times...
By doing that, you will of course win more games... but is that really a demonstration of your skill? Taking the most powerful tools you possibly can every game? Or is it more skillful to challenge yourself and take something sub-optimal? Restricting yourself is a perfectly normal thing in many games to keep the game entertaining, playing a game with restrictions to improve your mastery of it. E.g. Pokemon Nuzlockes, Darkest Dungeon no torches runs, Deagle only in Counter Strike, playing Dan in Street Fighter; we even see it in DBD with Hardcore Killer/Survivor challenges, or the Killer all perks streaks. The terms and scale of these challenges are entirely yours to define, and in all of these cases, players lose much more often... and that's the point... but in all of these examples I don't think anyone would argue victory takes much more skill and knowledge to achieve.
The issue with playing hard to win with full meta all the time brings the same issues as WoO, and the previous points I've discussed... you can easily become overly reliant on these styles and become a bit of a one trick. Human beings are inherently lazy, when the chips are down in the heat of the moment, we all take the path of least resistance, so to my mind, its important to combat that as much as possible by limiting yourself and stretching your ability regularly, even if you lose more.
For example I main Pig, already a far cry from a meta killer, but if I were to play uber serious, Deadlock and/or Corrupt Intervention would be permanent fixtures in my builds. These free me up from having to worry about having to find survivors quickly to get my first down before multiple gens pop, nor having to worry about multiple gens popping simultaneously and having to have good survivor prediction/map awareness to get traps out at key gens timings... these effects are very strong for me, but if I use them all the time and never have to play that part of the character, I naturally become lazier at this part of my game.
Now maybe you've learnt all you want to learn, maybe you're at the limit of what you feel you can improve upon... but in a game with as many variables as DBD, I don't think that can ever possibly be true... but hypothetically, even if you have perfected DBD somehow... isn't limiting yourself the next logical step for the game?
End Note
That's the way I see it. I find it much more fun trying to make a sub-par build effective and stretching myself to try and make less powerful builds work, than I do playing uber sweaty every match and either dunk or get dunked.
Sometimes I find builds that look dumb on paper that are actually pretty good, and by always shifting my playstles, I'm always keeping my fundamental skills sharp.
Post edited by UndeddJester on1 -
Yeah, I react to "tunneling" on a case-by-case basis. I recognize when it makes sense to tunnel, and I recognize when I deserved to be tunneled. And I recognize that, even if I'm on second hook and no one else has been hooked yet, I can tell it wasn't really tunneling if I had noticed the Killer chasing someone else first, or if I was just unlucky to be found again.
And then the other day I had a Nurse who tunneled me out of the game…and then let all of the teammates go. I was like, what gives? What did I do to deserve being singled out like that? That match was actually hurtful, as it felt cruel and personal. I'd been tunneled out a lot of times, but rarely did it upset me as much as that particular case did…
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