Where is the balance.
Where is the balance. When will you make a normal nerf blight?
Why did you add this useless anti-camp system? It doesn't work, and the killers keep doing it. Add a system when the progress of the survival stage on the hook does not change when the maniac is camping.
Why are you adding useless changes for survivors? To show that you're doing something?
Fix your servers or do something. When you use dead hard, an animation appears, but the perk doesn't work. I'm tired of taking a perk that doesn't work.
It's no longer interesting to play for killers because the gameplay of Survivors is very difficult. There are no pallets at all at the Coldwild Farm. Survivors always disconnecting and I make the most boring minus 4.
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it’s balanced around high mmr 4mans(which it should be) just as it should be balanced around high mmr killers(which it is) and if they look at blight and he’s not doing more than 52% ish and nerf him, that means survivors will probably get a nerf too. So I’m going with no, unless you want a hit to probably healing, repair, or “second chance” perks. As those are mostly the gripes on killer side atm. I don’t have the data on blights performance overall at that level, but I imagine that’s what will happen.
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Blight is correctly nerfed, don't see what you need to
There's less Blight now, and only the people who have the correct bump mecanic can have the best usage of him
It's like Nurse now, difficult to master, but when you get it, you become powerfull4 -
I disagree with this. It shouldn't be balanced by a small percentage of players. They should balance it around a medium high. They should also bring back comp and restriction of perks for that.
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comp still exists, but average player has a mindset that it's for "sweats" while that same average player wants to establish the best possible outcome from their match by the most casual kind of learning. Not to mention terrible state of soloQ with people still being allowed to blatantly give up at the start and griefing in general still not being properly addressed.
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BHVR probably thinks that the current state of their game is stellar. I'm not even joking.
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Okay I'll bite, medium high what survivors , killers , or both? Also why do you think they should balance around medium high players? Just some probing questions.
I think they should balance around the top because they have the most knowledge and are the most likely to exploit and find the flaws in certain things. You can't have one side at the very top consistently beating the other best players in the game, that's not balance, you have to look at the bigger picture. It's rigged from the top down at that point no matter which side it pertains to if you don't balance around them. That's just my opinion though. Are there things that can change to increase the overall health of the game on both sides, absolutely. You can't change one in a major way without changing the other side though, and I hope more people keep that in mind. You get what you want but there are costs, and you probably don't want to pay them or maybe you do. That movie the substance comes to mind "Respect the balance, there is no you or them, you are one" Right now, I think blight is one of the few killers that can give that level a run for their money while not completely stalling the game to absurd times for every one else in matches.
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it was once balanced around the average player and it wasn’t fun or fair at all to one side. I think you should join a group and play for a while with them. The difference is big. Respectfully, I don’t think one side should suffer all together because you don’t want to use available tools.
Again I think there are things that can be changed to promote overall health on both sides, but balancing around the middle isn’t it.
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IDK i took a pretty long break to play some other games and got hard reset all the way back, and I've worked my way back to gold about to go to the next (and that took me like 2 days, I’m not bragging, I’m just saying for context) and I've had BT go off once. Lower MMR doesn't seem that bad, I'm not even running META second chances, woo, or distortion(which would probably stay regenning if I was, I'm in a lot of chases), nor am I playing on comms, it's just solo. Slugging starts around Silver, there is some camping but it's so poor that the killer wouldn't get away with that against more skilled players that have seen this before, they're not really getting away with it now, simple tactics work against them. Maybe you're better than you think if that's all you're seeing. I've been all the way to the top, idk why survivors are so obsessed with going up there. It's not fun you see mainly a handful of different killers, it's just sweat, and there's no trophy. If you're struggling now, I think you'll really struggle there. I think if you just learn when to save and when to be on a gen you'll start going up. You have to be aware of all your emblems. You need chases, boldness, gens, and saves/heals , learn tiles, how to counter killer powers, timings, or you'll stay at the bottom or in the middle if not. It does not get better at the top, if you buff around the middle you're just inflating the top with even more tools and leading lambs to the slaughter as they get pushed up, because I'm assuming you want no buffs to killer to account for this, so sure you'll beat the average killer, but once you don't you're basically on your tummy x10 now because it doesn't stop, the killer side just gets better at it.
I think bridging the gap between solo and 4 man comms is the best way, and then adjusting surivor and killer around that is the best way forward or we're just making full circles here. That's just my take, others and yourself may feel differently. I've seen them try a lot of things though, and idk. Buffing around the middle seems like a middle survivors dream and a middle killers absolute nightmare, while the top just eats them up once they get there. Then we are right back where we started.
Post edited by HeroLives on0 -
I've argued this for years. If the top level of your game is not balanced, like at all, how could the rest of it possibly be balanced? And so, it isn't. The only thing that stops killers from getting wrecked every single match is that survivors don't capitalize on everything they're given, or they make huge blunders, or occasionally they just get extremely unlucky.
A killer's absence or extreme rarity in tourney and high level probably means they're not any good. And in tourney, survivors have all these restrictions put on them, and they still get wins constantly. So I'm not convinced when all these people say, "You're just not good at killer, and haven't unlocked their full potential." or something along those lines. Because to me, the history of DBD is a history of killers nerfs. The most egregious examples of unhealthy things in the game that were nerfed were on the survivor side. Instaheals that took you from on the ground to healthy, BNP instantly completing gens, infinite loops, pallets and strong tiles linked every 5 feet, gigantic maps, exhaustion perks that worked while you're exhausted, free stuns on the killer with DS, Endurance after taking 2 hits with Mettle, etc. What did killers have that was so strong they needed nerfing? Stuff that slowed gens down, gave killers agency in chase instead of the survivor, add-ons that gave a decent effect, info perks, M1 killers, kicking gens, etc. It's not even close.
Even just ignoring the argument of which side has had it worse, there's still people arguing for very casual balance changes. And that's an oxymoron; you don't balance for casuals. Yet here we are. People are convinced that mere info is what causes 1 side to win or lose. On the killer's lack of an individual hook counter, I'd agree. I hate having to use coins, out of game, to track who I've hooked and who I haven't. But I'm not gonna blame survivors using Windows for why I lost, or blame the killer using aura perks for why I lose as survivor. Information is only as useful as the ability the player has to capitalize on it. Good survivors don't care if they're seen by aura, because they'll just loop you. Good killers don't care either, because the check spots at loops let you see and outmaneuver them anyway. And yet these things are a lot of what see being complained about.
So I may be wrong. Maybe people are onto something, saying we should balance around casuals. It's a revolutionary idea, I'll say. But what we have now, which is a game state that virtually everyone disapproves of, is a direct result of balancing like that.
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You always balance around what the highest skilled players are capable of while keeping in mind low level play. Doing it this way, a given "thing" can have 5 states of being:
Note: You can also have slight variations like "its underpowered in low level play but balanced in high level play" but in general most things will fall under these categories and for simplicity sake we can tackle these.
- It is perfectly balanced for all levels of play
- In this case, the thing is fine, do nothing
- It is underpowered in all levels of play
- In this case, the thing needs to buffed, simply buff it.
- It is overpowered in all levels of play
- In this case, the thing needs to be nerfed, simply nerf it
Where it gets interesting is here
- It is overpowered in low level play, and underpowered in high level play
- In this case, it is a candidate for a rework. Likely the mechanic or thing is difficult for lower level players to understand, and too weak when you understand it. The key here would be to simplify the thing or mechanic while also buffing it.
- It is underpowered in low level play, and overpowered in high level play
- Similar to the above, it is likely that the thing is too difficult to use in low level play and needs to be made easier, while also nerfing the thing.
There's also some nuance there.
For example, if something is overpowered in low level play, and underpowered in high level play, you can probably safely buff the thing in the meantime and simply make it more difficult through simple number tweaks while you go about reworking the thing.
Conversely If something is underpowered in low level play, and overpowered in high level play, then it probably is safe to nerf it, because if the low level players already aren't using it to its full effectiveness, it isn't going to hurt them to nerf it since they already aren't really doing it.
One of my favorite videos explains this, and i link it frequently so if you have seen me you might have seen it. But the logic does apply to DBD here:
2 - It is perfectly balanced for all levels of play
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Nobody has ever been able to point to me any other multiplayer game that is balanced around "average" level players. And when i do ask about it, the answer is "because asymmetrical games" but they fail to explain what makes asym games so special that you suddenly completely change the fundamentals of game design to balance them differently. The other argument is "its a party game" to which i have yet to have anyone explain to me any other "party game" that uses MMR to match players together. I very much doubt mario party is doing that behind the scenes.
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People are giving up in SoloQ because the game is balanced around comp SWF, SoloQ has literally never been in a worse state in all of DBD history. Most matches of SoloQ are a complete waste of time which drives people to DC and "go next" because the games are for the most part, unwinnable and more importantly unfun, since most Killers just slug/camp/tunnel as if they're playing against a comp 4 stack SWF. The MMR also doesn't actually do anything and the mm was way better when they relied on rank, not that they should go back to that, but they need to ditch this current lame duck iteration of a sbmm.
People are so damn quick to want to punish SoloQ players for their actions, but most people gloss over what is causing SoloQ to be a nightmare and it isn't people wanting out of a match, that's a symptom of a much larger issue. SWF has remained unchecked and Killers have to rely on truly game mechanic breaking Killers to even remotely get anything done at high ranks against sweat SWF's, so ofc SoloQ is miserable since Killers need that baseline and then carry it over to SoloQ matches where it's absolutely not needed in the slightest.
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People are giving up in SoloQ because the game is balanced around comp SWF, SoloQ has literally never been in a worse state in all of DBD history. Most matches of SoloQ are a complete waste of time which drives people to DC and "go next" because the games are for the most part, unwinnable and more importantly unfun, since most Killers just slug/camp/tunnel as if they're playing against a comp 4 stack SWF. The MMR also doesn't actually do anything and the mm was way better when they relied on rank, not that they should go back to that, but they need to ditch this current lame duck iteration of a sbmm.
completely incorrect. If you go back in time, when soloQ was in a far worse state QoL wise, people were giving up way less, meaning that your argument about giving up due to "balance around comp SWF" falls into water.
People are giving up for the most individual reasons that don't have anything to do with the team (losing first chase for example) and due to plain burnout and the fact that no matter what, they don't wanna stop playing this game, but they are willing to ruin experience for other players if their "needs" aren't satisfied.
People are so damn quick to want to punish SoloQ players for their actions, but most people gloss over what is causing SoloQ to be a nightmare and it isn't people wanting out of a match, that's a symptom of a much larger issue. SWF has remained unchecked and Killers have to rely on truly game mechanic breaking Killers to even remotely get anything done at high ranks against sweat SWF's, so ofc SoloQ is miserable since Killers need that baseline and then carry it over to SoloQ matches where it's absolutely not needed in the slightest.
"game mechanic breaking killers" 😭😭😭
Bro have you ever tried to approach to counterplay for specific killers from a different perspective instead of trying to act like every killer should be M1 based and have no other kind of kit? People are mostly losing against the worst killers in this game.
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They aren't punishing soloq though. They swapped from balancing around average players on survivor side to balancing around swf at the highest. it's like almost 50/50 now, and that's exactly how it should be. SoloQ is not escaping as much, sure. You're right there. SoloQ also isn't on comms with across the board. That innately comes with a bigger challenge. It's not like they are leaving soloQ to completely rot either, I mean there's a UI that gives you a huge majority of the information that SWF share with each other. There's tons of perks that offer extentions on said life. While is pushing it on just straight up unfair with people on comms all to help alleviate struggles in soloq. They even added a perk so if there's a big skill difference between one survivor and another you can take their hook states for them. They didn't do that for 4mans, they did it for solo and people with average and lower skill levels because there's a big power difference. COMP doesn't need that, and 4mans don't. They did that for the casuals. The nerf to distortion isn't even as bad as people make it out to be. It's still good, it backhandely buffed survivors because at it's worse people were using it to hide(don't know why they would do that, makes zero sense to me if you're trying to win other than hatch, which is lame imo) So in a weird way that was a buff to teamwork in general. That helps the average survivor and solo experience. Do they balance around the top yes, but they also throw bones to averages all the time on both sides with things that don't really benefit higher skilled survivors/killers at all because they already know how to mitigate those things. 4mans already know the best way to win is to force spread hooks, bait, and all kinds of other things, so you can't tell me those things were for them. I've been on the teams, I can tell you that was for solo/ not a 4man without a doubt. most of the stuff they've buffed with survivor is for solo/not 4man experience to help bridge it.
Additionally match making wasn't better when it went off rank. I can't tell you how many times I lobbied with people who were very obviously not red rank material, yet they are up there. I mean sometimes I would just watch them over altruism theirselves to death because well they couldn't dare to think to break the cycle of hook and zoom back the killer would do and would play right into it, and still do. To be fair it's really hard to break unless you're on a 4man, I know you don't think all those second chance perks were for them. They're for the average and below players. They can't be too strong though or the best killers will never against high skilled 4mans no matter how good they are win, and that's not fair. They have checked 4mans because I can tell you now, you don't end up with 48% survival rate by not doing that, it used to be closer to 95% high side of the time, you hardly ever lost. I'm saying this as someone that's done the whole 4man and who now just in large majority plays solo so im thrown in with everyone but 4mans.
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