Why Do You Think Hooks Are Weaker Now?

jesterkind

Pretty much just the title, but to elaborate a little bit— when people talk about the state of slugging in the game, one of the things you'll see brought up in passing is the notion that hooks themselves are weak now, and not worth going for. What I find curious about this argument is that very few people really attempt to explain it- they just skip straight to slugging being strong because of the ability to deny perks and the like.

So, this thread is to ask the people who feel this way… why? What changed about hooks to make them actively weaker than they were before?

I'm not talking about slugging here, I'm familiar with the reasons people think slugging is stronger than hooks. There's a difference between slugging being the stronger of the two, and hooks actually being weak on their own merits- it's the latter I'm concerned with here.

Linkdouken

I've seen arguments on here stating that hooks aren't worth it because of a lot of survivor perks that activate or benefit them too much so by that logic I can only assume that they wish for more anti slugging unbreakable style perks 🤷‍♂️

SoGo

I don't think they are weaker, or not at least THAT weak.

Hooking someone deletes 1/3 of their lifespan, regardless of how long they are there. You can slug someone 5 times and they can still pick themselves up and escape.

But, I can understand the argument that the 10 extra seconds to the hook timer plus the nerfs to gen regression that depends on hooking "made it not worth it to hook".

sanees

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/439533/why-do-you-think-hooks-are-weaker-now

(I know there was a request not to mention the slug, but they are too closely related)
Increasing stage time to 70 seconds
Huge loss of pressure on the map animations + time move with survivor to hook avarage take 15 sec, this is 45% for the generators or the healed survivor
Most of the strongest survivor perks are hook related, with slug killers some time can literally disable 12/16 survivor perks in a match without risking a pallet or flashlight save and in some case free up 25% of build with dont taking lightborn
Nerf killer hook perks, and this is not only a gaming, but also an emotional aspect, the killer simply does not receive feeling of reward for the hooks

AmpersandUnderscore

The only changes that the devs implemented anywhere close to the timing that excessive slugging started picking up traction were

• Added extra 10 seconds to hook timers.
• WGLF got extra slug healing speed removed.

All of the regression changes were at least 6 months earlier.

So, to me, the real reason is that people understood that camping hooks, and lurking near the hook with intent to tunnel, were actually getting nerfed with the +10 seconds change. And instead of understanding how to play without using those tactics every hook, in every match, people switched to slugging instead.

I don't think WGLF change has anything to do with it, except possibly to remind people on accident that slugging is powerful. Pretty sure this swap coincided with some content creator using these talking points too.

So instead of using their time to pressure survivors off gens, they went the next easy route to slug excessively.

Any talk about regression is just an excuse. People have been screaming to get gen kick meta levels of regression back, since that was the pve meta. Anyone could bind every key to "damage generator", slam their face on the keyboard for an hour, and win matches by both attrition and by default. People desperately want that back again, and will use any excuse to bring it up.

warp1die

Slug and hooks. These concepts are inseparable. When it comes to one, everything necessarily flows into the other. These are literally inseparable concepts. I will try, although it will be very difficult. Since you are the nicest person, unlike your colleagues who are engaged in witch hunting. I really appreciate that you at least try to explain why we need to play hooks.

A combination of different factors.

1 Killers perk strength

We have 23 perks that are related to hooks. Most of these perks get nerfed every time. This is a clear hint from the developers that killers should not play hooks. These perks are mostly random and unstable in use. Most of them are impractical for use in their current form. I would characterize this as my bad luck in gambling.

Using gene slowdown now looks like a desperate move with no options, in some cases seasoned with a taste of randomness. Because over the years of playing DBD I've learned that if survivors want to fix a generator. They will start the generators anyway, regardless of what you equip. So it's better to focus on something else.

All I personally have ready from this category is.
A whole build of Friends 'til the End, Furtive Chase, Alien Instinct and Nemesis. The problem is that it only works well on meta killers. Who, anyway, are doing well in life. It has a certain value when double tunneling and exchanging hooks. Take away the hook stage from the survivor and go tunneling further to make a 3 on 1.

Blood Echo
Make Your Choice (Bad design) only Dredge.
Dead Man's Switch is not my playstyle, but I admit its existence

As you can see, a whole build and 2-3 perks out of 23 that are worth considering.

Killer Hooks
Friends 'til the End, Furtive Chase, Alien Instinct, Barbecue & Chilli, Blood Echo, Blood Warden, No Way Out, Dying Light (weak joke), Hex: Devour Hope (random), Hex: Huntress Lullaby (weak joke, random), Hex: Plaything, Make Your Choice (Bad design), Leverage (Bad design), THWACK!, Grim Embrace (Nerf), Pop Goes the Weasel (Nerf), Dead Man's Switch (Nerf, buff), Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance (Nerf, random), Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain (Nerf, random), Scourge Hook: Floods of Rage (random), Scourge Hook: Monstrous Shrine (random), Scourge Hook: Hangman's Trick (weak joke, random), Scourge Hook: Jagged Compass

2 Survivor perks that work with hooks.

27 perks and 2 survivor tactics that make hooks desirable for survivors. Many of these are meta. As a killer, you often encounter them. Then everything flows into slugging, which was asked not to be mentioned here. You just get rid of all this tedious headache.

Campingand Tunneling
Dead Hard, Off the Record, Decisive Strike, Shoulder the Burden

Defense
Babysitter, Borrowed Time, Breakdown, Deliverance, Kindred, Reassurance, Resurgence, Second Wind, We'll Make It, Wicked, Fast Track, Blood Rush, Slippery Meat, Camaraderie

Transportation
Boil Over, Breakout, Power Struggle, Flip-Flop

Lantern Assault
Background Player, Flashbang, Champion of Light, Residual Manifest

Toolbox Assault
Saboteur

3 Survivor hook buff which is a huge waste of my time

10 seconds, anti facecamp and other basic sets at the Survivor hook level. All these changes greatly reduce the overall pressure on Survivors. It is almost impossible to punish Survivors who delayed rescuing at the hook stage these days. Always ends up being an exchange.

4 Sabotage and Warriors of Light

My games often look like this, which makes me think about certain things. Why am I participating in this circus by the rules of the survivors? When I can impose my own rules of victory and thereby upset the survivor's game plan? I do not want to be their funny toy and a confident Lightborn user. It is very tiring, I would describe it as a Pyrrhic victory - a game with the taste of ashes even if I win. I value my mental balance very much, so, unfortunately, I have to limit myself to Lightborn to avoid stress.

As a result, 23 questionable privileges against 29 things that will darken the life of a killer. Why do survivors have more hook-related perks than killers? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

Coffeecrashing

Right before the finisher mori was released, BHVR gave us slugging stats that showed slugging wasn't a problem at the time.

After the finisher mori was released, nothing really was released that would affect slugging, except for shoulder the burden, that I honestly don't think is used much at average MMR, and therefore most of the players really aren't seeing it being used well.

So the actual questions, are "do we really think the finisher mori caused a slugging problem", or "do we think there still isn't a slugging problem, but since we don't have access to any current official stats, no one can actually prove anything"?

buggybug

Its a poor excuse thing made out of killer main content creators and their loyal fan boys and girls, just copied and pasted their homework. When survivors made an uproar that hook respawns is not a good idea, killers was quickly to say " chill out it is a good thing and we do not need to slug no more or very rarely". Ofc that as I expected turned out to be a big pile of horse ######### lie just to get us to stop complaining.

Bvhr added so much hooks on the map and so close that I never struggle to find any hooks and this was done because of the whole boil over issue years back. Dead saloon my fav example has like 7 hooks neck to neck of each other. The excuse of survivors having too much perks trigger off hook is a poor man excuse. There perks for killers that needs you to be hook to get value that helps for winning like pop, pain res, devour etch.

Lastly slugging for 4k certainly gotten worst with finisher mori. Before that killers would most likely to hook the third person now its the common that if its the last 2, they slug third or if they do get both down. They bm third on hook then hump fourth waiting till their bleed timer goes to 3.8 seconds then mori. Can hope that whatever bvhr got plan will finally help with this and bonus if they remove finisher mori . Cause am pretty sure with hook respawns and finisher mori gone they will probably stop slugging third for fourth.