http://dbd.game/killswitch
The new killer's grab attack should have a maximum range, and not work through walls
If the new killer needs to be nerfed, then the nerfs should revolve around the killer's grab attack, because this grab attack hit feels bugged to work in scenarios it shouldn't.
- The grab attack should have a maximum range, because it currently feels like it goes 30 yards or more, even though the max dash range is only 16 yards (or 18 yards with the handkerchief). So the grab attack should be limited to 16 (or 18) yards. This might be confusing for the UI though, and there might need to be a new reticule icon, for "survivor can be grab attacked, but is too far away".
- The grab attack shouldn't work, when the killer's screen shows it going through a wall. This is an important point, because sometimes people complain about Huntress hatchets going through walls, but on the killer's screen they looked fine. But with this killer's grab attack, the killer's screen shows the grab attack working through walls and other objects, and that's not good.
- Grab attacks are separated into two parts. The first part is the tentacles hitting a survivor, which places a mark on them. This part is fine, and doesn't need to be nerfed. The second part is the killer dashing towards the survivor and trying to hit them. This is the part that sometimes gets bugged, and should be fixed.
Comments
-
I think all he really needs is improvements to the more questionable hits (like going through walls etc). Apart from that he's totally fine.
3 -
Much larger cooldowns are needed too.
-6 -
I don't like nerfs that are basically "let's make the killer feel more clunky and awful to play as". The killer is supposed to have a fast and high mobility theme. Nerfing the cooldowns just makes that feel worse.
But nerfing things that clearly look bad on the killer's screen (like when the killer's screen shows a grab clearly going through a wall), doesn't make the killer feel more clunky, because the hit never looked good on the killer's screen.
8 -
That there lies the problem - high mobility killers. It's always problematic balance-wise. I'd rather see dashes dropped entirely for killers, and that's as someone who primarily plays killers. If all new killers keep getting dash type attacks, then the design team will start balancing around the expectation that most killers being played have dashes and will mass nerf all killers with that balance expectation in mind. This in turn will make weaker m1 killers with no mobility even weaker than they already are.
2 -
But the game isn't designed like that to begin with and that idea isn't even in the realm of their balancing philosophy, especially with killers who are a case by case basis. They are not reskin survivor models, they're individual characters. Plus, I highly doubt any global killers changes will be made in the future with little uncertainty of how every killers will be affected.
0 -
Agreed.
0 -
bad idea.
1 -
They globally nerf killer's often via perk nerfs because they happen to be problematic on certain killers. They also added anti facecamp because of how problematic bubba was with it. They also added the 8 regression limit due to mostly skull merchant existing along with other killers with map mobility being able to easily patrol gens.
They nerf all killers globally because of certain killers often. Once the majority of killers all have map mobility (which almost all recent killers have some kind of dash or teleport), even more globally nerfs will come into play in order to try to bring them in line. This always hurts the killers who have no map mobility. When was the last time they released a killer without any kind of map mobility or distance closure such as dashes, speed ups, or teleports?
Post edited by RpTheHotrod on3 -
BHVR nerfs the M2 killers with the map reworks, because the newer tiles, and increased line of sight breakers, disproportionally affect M2 killers. For example, many of the irregularly shaped loops are purposely designed so that killers like Blight and Billy can't use their M2 power there.
Remember that in the older maps, almost everything was completely flat walls at 90 degree angles, that was super easy for Blight to bump around, or super easy for Billy to curve around. And there were so few line of sight breakers that killers like Huntress and Nurse were much easier to use.
0 -
The only reason his power hits you "through walls" is because he already locked on to you before you rounded the corner.
Let me explain:
The nature of his power necessitates the hit going through if you're around a corner or behind a gen because it has a travel time. It's like how Huntress hits you right before you round a corner, that's still a legitimate hit, it just doesn't have a delay. Because Kaneki's power has a delay, it LOOKS weird, but it needs to be this way because there are only two alternatives:
- He just lets you go after he *already lands the hit* on you because it "doesn't look correct"
- He vacuums you back around the corner to "make the hit look better" and make you lose more distance in the process.
In the first scenario, it feels terrible to play, and in the second scenario, it feels *even worse* to play against than the average player currently perceives it to be.
The hit is perfectly fine as-is in my opinion. There were concessions that had to be made in terms of "feel" because Kaneki doesn't damage you immediately (again, like with my Huntress example.) He hits you around the corner because he locked onto you BEFORE you rounded the corner.
It is 100% working as intended. The reason it just LOOKS weird is because after the hit is already confirmed, there's a travel time before it actually happens. It's a technical limitation.
However, I would certainly be down with reducing the duration of his enrage animation while also reducing the amount of time that the survivor is stationary so it's fair for both sides (since I don't personally feel like he's overpowered - he's the only dash killer where his dash doesn't have the ability to down survivors, so it's actually fair for it to work the way it does. Even Pig's dash can down people.)
This solution would resolve the janky/stuttery feeling while being power-neutral.
-2 -
<mispost, please remove>
-2 -
This cannot happen. It's a concession that had to be made for technical reasons. Refer to my comment above.
Basically, due to travel time mechanics, changing the nature of the hit will either severely nerf the character (which he does not deserve) or just look even weirder from both ends.
-4 -
The killer is latched onto the survivor with their tentacles. So it wouldn't look as weird if the killer vacuums the survivor back a bit, to make the hit look better. Because if those "behind walls" hit are actually legit, and should stay in the game, then they should look better on the killer and survivor screens.
Or maybe the killer should just be animated better to make the hits look better… For example, if the grab attack should connect, then just have the killer leap around the wall (like a Spider-Man swing), and always land right behind the survivor.
1 -
Whatever it takes.
I'm merely stating that it's not a balance issue, it's a visual issue
-2 -
Ghoul’s grab attack is a hitscan attack, so there shouldn’t ever be a scenario where the server acknowledges the grab attack, but then cancels it because a wall is in the way. That would mean the server validation messed up, and is coded wrong.
The most balanced change would be to fix the server validation, so it checks if a survivor is behind an object, and if so, then the grab animation doesn’t start.
But it would be preferable if BHVR could just aim dressing the grab attack better, so it doesn’t look like it went through an object.
0 -
They could do something like, if the survivor's hitbox is more than 50% concealed by all the hitscan area, then the attack doesn't work. Especially if they also do a little projection to guess what way the survivor would be going to compensate for ping. And they could just remove the delay on the attack so it looks more realistic on both ends. Right now it is way too generous and no skill to use.
1 -
It’s a hitscan attack, which means it literally has a 0 second travel time. There isn’t any projections needed.
The grab attack is separated into 2 parts, and the first part instantly stuns the survivor and latches tentacles to them. The killer’s screen often shows the survivor as 0% concealed when they start the grab attack.Even though the grab attack contains a long animation to leap at the survivor, the survivor is stunned the entire time, so it’s not really a leap attack, and instead it’s an instant hitscan attack
-1 -
I have seen a streamer get hit blatantly all the way through corners of walls, when both he and the killer had around only 30 ping. There's no way this should happen, and just saying "it's a hitscan!" doesn't really mean much.
It never should have been a hitscan attack in the first place. That gives way too much power to hackers.
1 -
I’m wondering if the attack isn’t stunning the survivor immediately, and is waiting for the tentacles to grab them before stunning them. If that is true, then the game needs to stun the survivor earlier, or pull them backwards for the sake of aim dressing.
On the killer’s side, I’ve started a grab when the survivor was 100% visible, and by the time the deep wound hit happens, the survivor is behind a wall.
Aim dressing currently forcibly yanks the killer's camera and character, and I don’t see survivors asking for that to get fixed, so it should be fine if aim dressing forcibly yanks the survivor.
Post edited by Coffeecrashing on0
