http://dbd.game/killswitch
I'm going to make a Judgement Call on Duty Of Care
This isn't feedback on the perk, because I'm not playing the PTB on account of there not being any content that interests me that won't inevitably be changed from PTB to Live. But I have been seeing a good number of people going "Duty Of Care is abusable and OP", and quite honestly? I don't really see it.
Now, to be fair, I do agree that the perk can be really obnoxious against a 4 man with comms. But the problem I have with that is that it runs under the assumption that a 4 man with Comms is particularly common, which, contrary to what people who have never played Survivor in their life might think, is just fundamentally untrue, SWF, especially the 4man comp boogeymen, are not that common, and quite honestly I don't think I've actually gone against a 4man SWF that had the express intent of winning and humiliating me in actual years, most SWF are just 2 dudes chilling in a Discord call, not a 4 man goof troop intent on ruining people's days.
The second point I have is just asking you to really think on it, how frequently do you, as Killer, get body-blocked by a survivor, or how frequently do you see people taking protection hits? At most I see it happen like once, maybe twice, and I end up downing the body-blocker like 20 seconds later anyway. Body-blocks really do not happen that often, and sure a perk that requires protection hits might encourage more people to go for them, but if we really want to go by that logic, why don't more people run Mettle of Man? Why don't people run more perks that enable repeat body blocks? Simple reason, it ain't worth it.
Like lets really think about this critically for a second, lets say someone runs Duty Of Care in place of one of their existing perks and gets value from it, the killer in that case is just going to chase them. If that's the user's intention then great, the perk's done its job, but what if the user is running a build designed to make the perk as obnoxious as possible? Quite frankly that's a indirect buff to the Killer, because that's one less person running a Meta build, and, more importantly, one less person actively doing gens. Like really think about that, if you're running a build designed to get you healed up quickly and get repeated protection hits, you're probably not going to be on gens, you're going to be in a corner healing, running to teammates for heals, or be in the killer's face going for a body-block. You're not doing the objective, you're not really helping the team progress the state of the match, you're being a annoyance, an effective annoyance probably, but still a annoyance, and honestly I don't really have much issue with that, I'd rather play against a goober not doing gens then a team that wants to do the gens as fast as possible. Interactions between both sides are fun, and this perk means more interactions, which is fine by me.
And the final reason I don't really see the perk being a issue is that a good chunk of killers and perks can either completely ignore it, or render it completely ineffectual, Mobility killers are not going to care if you give someone 6 seconds of Dramaturgy speed, and every killer with a insta-down power or a Exposed perk is just never going to notice it, hell even Legion to a degree can completely negate Duty Of Care by virtue of keeping survivors injured most of the match. Even in a 4-man squad this perk has plenty of counterplay, and that's why I don't feel it will be a issue, you as a Killer have options to counteract it, it forces Survivors to interact with the killer to get value out of it, and the majority of players simply don't play in a way that would make the perk particularly obnoxious. Annoying in a 4-man when you're playing a killer with no insta-down or Exposed perks? Sure, but we shouldn't be concerned or cry foul about perks that might be obnoxious in a literal 1 in a thousand scenario, we should be looking at how something is used by the majority of the player base, and if the majority of the player base either doesn't use it or only uses it in a couple of scenarios, it'll probably be fine.
I said this when Shoulder The Burden released and consequently fell into near irrelevancy less then a month later, don't overhype Niche perks and act like they'll lead to some new insane strategy that'll make killer incredibly unfun and therefore needs to be nerfed immediately, it's 6 seconds of Dramaturgy speed, I think most killers will be fine.
G'night
Comments
-
Nobody like to single handedly lose a match they were winning to a cheap perk. I have lost several matches due to Shoulder alone. 1 survivor in death hook two gens left and they get Shouldered and all of the sudden I have no one on death hook and lose all pressure. It’s rare yeah but that’s because the majority of players aren’t good. I used STB in solo queue and it’s definitely still I saw. And it is very effective at making a killer who is already struggling lose completely.
Duty of Care is the same. It will be rare, but will be annoying in those few scenarios where it comes into play. Especially in the end game. Literal free escape. No skill needed no talent needed.
Old Adrenaline was the same. I never got upset though. I never counted those games as a loss because that perk was ridiculously broken. Absolutely absurd to come out of a hook at full health with a SIX second sprintburst. Especially when survivors were crying about slugging when that’s exactly what adrenaline encouraged.
-23 -
Ok, I undertand the concern.
But, have you considered... NOED?
18 -
Yeah, NOED rewards killers for playing badly and gives them a second chance they don't deserve, what a badly designed perk. Survivors don't get any second chance perks that reward them or handhold them for playing badly!
-2 -
With your logic, survivors should be super happy if a killer camps their first hook, because it means 3 survivors are repairing generators uninterrupted. Because if the killer didn't camp, and found someone else to chase instead, that means less than 3 survivors would be repairing generators.
-6 -
Sorry man, but Choy's already released a video saying things are so bad he's probably done playing killer.
Let the hysteria begin.
5 -
To be fair, broadly, yes.
At this point in the game camping is only an issue in solo queue where you can't trust your teammates to actually be doing those generators, if you can trust your teammates to be competent then camping is basically free gen repair.
7 -
Broadly agree, some additional details.
But the problem I have with that is that it runs under the assumption that a 4 man with Comms is particularly common, which, contrary to what people who have never played Survivor in their life might thinkEven in a four man SWF this isn't as easy to pull off as likes to be imagined. The protecting survivor has to time when to come over correctly. If they come too early they might protect the target, but they aren't buying the valuable time needed to do gens, if they come too late they waste the time trying to go for the protection hit. Now if the killer is just camping / tunneling off the hook the counter is easier, but such simplistic playstyles should have easy counters.
Like really think about that, if you're running a build designed to get you healed up quickly and get repeated protection hits, you're probably not going to be on gens, you're going to be in a corner healing, running to teammates for heals, or be in the killer's face going for a body-block.I think this point gets missed a lot and is what more broadly termed as opportunity costs. What did you give up to have this thing? An exhaustion perk, faster gens, faster heal, your own anti-tunnel, a different type of anti-tunnel support?
Lots of detraction on perks like this imagine that they get constant value. It would be like if survivors complained about Devour Hope on the presumption that it always gets its stacks and is never cleansed.
Duty of Care seems fine. It lets the survivor do one thing that frequently won't even come up in the match really well, but in doing so has a number of risks/costs associated with it. Sounds fine.
I said this when Shoulder The Burden released and consequently fell into near irrelevancy less then a month laterI think the reason some perks get complained about a lot more than others is killers see them deployed. If survivors are using faster gens or faster healing, it isn't as noticeable unless its like an extreme gen rush squad. It happens away from the killer's screen. But there seems to be a lot more rage at perks like say DH or Shoulder where it is noticeable to the killer that the perk was used against them.
10 -
Why are Killer content creators so toxic lol they just had an event where a single killer has been destroying the fun for survivors, and they act like a single perk which isn't even on live yet is ruining their lives
12 -
The person taking the hit doesn’t even gain the haste effect so just go after the body blocker? Plus NOED exists too, the perk is fine and I also don’t get all the attention towards it.
7 -
Because none of them think macro they all think micro.
They win 80-90 % of their games, go on kill streaks for 50+ for their viewers WHILE gimping themselves regularly.
But the moment they see something actually balance the game out, they whine.16 -
I feel like people should've seen this type of behavior coming from the moment that the new survivor was released with their perks. Their Perks, in no uncertain terms; can be used quite effectively in terms of Solo Q and SWF.
But, solely focusing on the SWF part (Since you seemed to make a very well educated and put-together POV that needs no interjection) is that killers tend to use it as a strawman & a fallacy all in a single sitting.
They complain and whine about how nasty and OP it can be if a SWF were to get their hands on it while never actually having played against a 4-Man SWF or, even rarer, a bully squad. It's their way of convincing BHVR that buffing survivors despite how well they have it, that they aren't strong enough, Survivors aren't weak enough, and that type of behavior will never change.Honestly speaking, while the new survivor is the biggest band-aid I've ever seen added to DBD, she would do wonders for people in Solo Q because of her perks and how they solely focus on recovering and helping others recover. And to the complete surprise of nobody, the majority of killers are in an uproar because god forbid they have to actually try in a match and god forbid survivors actually get proper perks to help combat the BS that recently came to this game. (AHEM, THE DUMPSTER FIRE KNOW AS "THE GHOUL")
But don't worry, when killers get their their unnecessary buff or additions, watch how fast they turn around and say "Just learn counterplay" and continue to move the goalpost like they weren't just crying murder for some perks solely centered about being altrusitic.11 -
Hysteria! A content creator is unhappy. Next.
If a perk rarely sees use, then that perk is situationally strong. This description fits most survivor perks as them being consistently strong can result in perks that are too strong if 4 bring it (dh, mft, coh,...). These consistently perks can become a problem if not properly balanced.
Situationally strong perks however don't run uni this issue that much, because they are in nature not as strong. While they provide incredible value in specific situations, these situations occur in like 2/10 games. Shoulder the burden is one of these perks, as is borrowed time, this new perk and many more.
In regard to your example with free escapes in end game. Borrowed time does the exact same thing. Do people run it? No. This perk is, imo, a bit stronger, as it has no unhook requirement and can therefore be used more freely throughout the match. I see that as a good thing though. Perk variety is something good, as it changes up the gameplay. A perk needs to be worth using without being too strong.
Is duty of care worth using? I think so yes. Is it too strong? Remains to be seen. If yes, it needs to be adjusted.
Last but not least: what skill and talent are you talking about in end game scenarios? Bodyblocking is showing talent now? It's as much skill, imo, as a killer hitting a survivor off hook (back with no basekit bt) and hooking them again immediately.
5 -
the entire patch is just a SWFs wet dream come true. It is just overwhelmingly SWF and survivor sided. Almost every single aspect of it.
-11 -
Oh you are gonna care when your queue times reach 30 minutes because no one wants to play killer because of how miserable it will be. Im probably done and that is a sentiment I have seen shared by others as well.
-4 -
oh no no no
You see this one youtuber made a video saying SWF got buffed now his echo chamber commenters will say ghoul was unfairly nerfed and survivor gets the new op perk.
killers never get any love they always get nerfed by the evil survivor sided devs even though killers got all these buffs throughout the years and made so many killers better to use6 -
Expanding on this with data now lets use TruTalent as an example:
Yesterday:
Game 1) Huntress 4k using hooks
Game 2) Legion 3k ON BADHAM, using hooks
Game 3) Plague 4k using hooks
Game 4) Sadako 3k using hooks
Game 5) Plague 3k using hooks
Game 6) Legion 4k using hooks
Game 7) Ghoul 4k slugging everyone with knockout. Even with a person dcing at the start of the matchGame 8) Survivor round 3 escape, says "i dont blame them you dont have to be a good survivor, the game just becomes easier and easier"
"Wait for phase two it will be even easier"Against a legion....who was not very good, and struggling.
Game 9) Houndmaster 4k using hooks
Game 10) Spirit 4k, using hooks, tunneling at 5 gens.... with spirit. What a jokeGame 11) Survivor round 4k, says "More handholding for survivors happening in phase 2"
Trash talks his team all round, while avoiding body blocking or trading, or saving as a healthy survivor while other 2 are injured.
Flat out refuses to help save anyone late game and sticks on a generator to stealth out for hatch at 3 people, not 2... 3.Continues to trash talk "more handholding is going to happen, which means they are going to get wins they shouldnt get... pretty much what I thought would happen and it is"
"killers need to play super super good, yea sadly" While they all got 4ked by a wesker and he didnt tunnel or camp.
"survivors dont need to play well at all"Gets found stealthing says
"Why do you want a 4k versus this complete potato team dude?"
"Nice, like why do you care about 4k against such a piss easy team?"
"Slugging for 2 minutes, looking for one survivor to get one kill"Meanwhile he does this all the time.
Game 12) Ghoul 3k using hooks
Game 13) Ghoul 3k using hooks
Game 14) Knight 3k using hooks
Game 15) Ghoul 2k using hooks. Blames the map for the outcome (RPD) even thhough they have 0 regression perks and using iri mask.
Game 16) Dracula 3k using hooks
Game 17) Unknown 4k using hooks, does the thing he just complained about a wesker doing to him.
Game 18) Pig 4k, on Gideon, using hooks. does the thing he just complained about a wesker doing to him x2.Game 19) Dracula 3k, using hooks.
Game 20) Dracula 3k, using hooks.Killer games: 15 wins, 1 tie
Survivor games: 1 win, 1 loss2 days ago:
Game 1) Ghoul 4k using hooks. Red mask obviously. Does the thing he will complain about a wesker doing to him tomorrow. x3
Game 2) Ghoul 3k using hooks. Red mask obviously.
Game 3) Ghoul 3k using hooks. Red mask obviously.
Game 4) Survivor 4 escape, red mask ghoul player. Not camping, not tunneling, no regression perks. Pretty novice at the killer.
Game 5) Unknown 4k using hooks. Does the thing he will complain about a wesker doing to him tomorrow. x4
Game 6) Ghoul 4k using hooks. Tunnel/camps one out of the game at 5 gens.
Game 7) Bubs 4k Camp, tunnel 1 out, and slug at 5 gens.
Game 8) Billy 4k using hooks.
Game 9) Bubs 4k, slugs 3 tunnels one out.
Game 10) Ghoul 4k using hooks. Red mask obviously.
Game 11) Ghoul 3k using hooks. Red mask obviously.
Game 12) Ghoul 4k using hooks. Red mask obviously.
Game 13) Survivor 3 escape. Oni not camping or tunneling. Seems to be a pretty new player, chases lasting several minutes.
Game 14) Oni 4k using hooks. Tunnels/camps one out at 5 gens.
Game 15) Chucky 4k. Using hooks.
Game 16) Ghoul 3k using hooks. Red mask obviously.
Game 17) Ghoul 2k using hooks. Red mask obviously. No regression perks. Claimed thal had MFT, nope. Claimed Nea had SB, nope and he even saw her balanced in front of him before.
Game 18) Ghoul 2k using hooks. Red mask obviously. No regression perks complains about generator speed, and DS.Killer games: 14 wins, 2 ties
Survivor games: 2 winsCan do more but its just more of the same crap. He just trashes survivors say its so wildy easy, complains about things done to him that he himself does to others. All while winning 90%+ of his game each day on killer and playing a single game of survivor or two a day.
Has an extremely low mmr on survivor from what I can tell. The killers he gets are bordering brand new to the game.
And then just stomps on killer for 6+ hours a day, every day.19 -
Thank You for proving my point. No one likes to lose to a cheap perk! At least you can cleanse NOED. Oh and survivors puked and cried until it got nerfed and has its aura revealed, just like Penti now!
Can’t expect survivors to have to try at all can we?
-7 -
I think I've been through much worse in this game. Still gonna continue to main Pig and Sadako as if my life depends on it.
3 -
Current NOED is workable, but it's a Hex, for better or worse.
Still, after this chapter drops, I will run it.
The Orelas will be very surprised when instead of crossing the entire map thanks to their perk, they get downed instead.
3 -
To be fair, you could run Duty of Care with Overcome and give the killer no real good choice on who to chase, but even then that still means giving up a stronger exhaustion perk for a gimmick
Plus, as you said, NOED just exists, he’ll not even NOED, just run Forced Penance and DoC will do nothing lol
3 -
I’m not really sure why you think that’s a point against the argument, because it’s 100% true, a killer not pressuring gens in favour of trying to secure a hook state means that 3 people can do gens uninterrupted, letting the survivors complete their objective, which is pretty much the entire point of Survivor
Post edited by DragonMasterDarren on6 -
I saw one video of his where he was trying to convince himself that he had to slug 3 survivors to bleed out to have a chance at winning the match. Just sat there and kept reassuring himself with his chat echoing just how difficult it is to be a killer.
What videos or streams did you get that from BTW?
0 -
If you want to make sense of his pov, just consider that the reason his words don't match his outcomes is because he's not saying what he actually thinks - he's saying what he knows his chat wants to hear. He will 4k game after game after game but will sympathise with his subscribers because he knows new players watch him to learn, and new players struggle. Content creating is his job and his viewers pay his bills, so he will tell them what they want to hear so they keep watching. That's not an attack on him btw (before anyone gets defensive on his behalf) it's just literally how you become a successful influencer/content creator. He's good at his job.
2 -
do bones
-2 -
It is just going to be a classic over exaggerating blood rush, shoulder the burden 3.0. You remember those topics?
3 -
I saw this today, the amount of times I shaked my head I am surprised it did not fall off my body.
Post edited by buggybug on3 -
They always are yet talks about survivor players lol.
2 -
Ive been saying this was a a SWFs wet dream of a patch well before them, you fool
-3 -
There are forums posts happening right now, where people are complaining the Ghoul is good at camping. You should go to those forum posts, and gladly remind them that survivors should be happy the killer is camping, because it means more people can repair generators without being interrupted.
-1 -
His twitch vods for two days. And yea, problem with these kinds of people is their audience takes what they say as gospel.
Which is wierd because during one of the streams he talks about integrity and crap and its all just noise. While he sits there and slugs for the 4k for several minutes, even though he just got done with a survivor match complaining about it himself lol5 -
The problem with camping first hook, especially if we go back to the days when before AFC when Bubba could just stand in front, was its just boring. I've been in plenty of games where the killer camped first hook, we all did gens, and left. It's not a fun game for anyone.
Kind of comparable to two survivors just hiding for hatch. The killer is going to win if they want, but no one is having fun.
3 -
And Duty of Care isn't fun for killers, even if it means there is an extra survivor that isn't repairing generators.
Do you see how that works? The number of survivors repairing generators doesn't actually mean anything, because things can be frustrating for survivors even if they can repair generators uninterrupted, and things can be frustrating for killers even if an extra survivor isn't repairing a generator.
1 -
thank u
0 -
What is the point being made here? I want to comment, but this feels so far removed from OP's discussion. Did I miss something?
0 -
Playing against sweaty SWF isn't fun, nerf that please. Need to nerf everything that's unfun to face
-3 -
And Duty of Care isn't fun for killers, even if it means there is an extra survivor that isn't repairing generators.Serious question: how is it not fun?
Because the survivor/being camped example is easy to see how its not fun. No one, including the killer, is doing anything engaging. That's why I brought up examples like survivors hiding out. You also have things like survivors sitting by the exit gate. The reason its not fun and instead boring is very clear.
What about the idea of survivors being able to take a body block to protect another survivor and help them out isn't fun? It seems to create engagement, tension, adds more drama and options to the chase.
Because if the idea is that killers should be able to just chase down survivors 1 on 1 without any interference, that's not a viable model for a multiplayer game.
3 -
My problem with the perk isnt its strength against tunneling, its fact that its pretty unfriendly to solo survivors, almost a wasted perk slot. Itd be neat if it gave other injured survivors some sort of notification that you have the perk when theyre healthy. Or even better, LET US SEE EACHOTHERS PERKS IN THE LOBBY
1 -
I can tell you right now, from the many dramatic post-game chats I've gotten from survivors, that camping survivors absolutely adds more drama to the game.
-4 -
Okay….how is Duty of Care not fun?
3
