http://dbd.game/killswitch
Ghoul will never be fun to play against
So a common survivor complaint is apparently the grab attack even those it's hitbox has been reduced by 95% is still apparently to free still so survivors will never be happy unless grab attacks are completely removed. Furthermore a major complaint by many is his Grab Vaults are just to fast and uncounterable even after the nerfs so it mostly likely a Scamper situation where it will be removed just like Chucky.
Another common survivor complaint is his cooldowns/attack cooldown when he lands right next to you is too short.
Basically Ghouls entire fate right now is being drip fed nerfs until he's no longer viable and rework him entirely and the only thing Kaneki will be screaming about is being at bottom of D-Tier
Comments
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I don't know if this is sarcasm or if you mean it, but if you still have complaints about the current Kaneki, you should be ashamed....
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I've literally never had a problem against him even before the omeganerfs. He's Legion with added mobility and difficult techs to get sometimes alright anti-loop. The only thing that doesn't work is holding W, which was a terrible playstyle to begin with.
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I don't know. Different people like different things. I could definitely see more people enjoying going against Ghoul now that he has been nerfed into a more balanced state.
I guess some people will never enjoy going against Ghoul because the killer is just not for them. But that's with every killer. I doubt that most survivor players want him to be nerfed into D tier though. Just up until the last update he was too oppressive.
Also in my experience his ability to vault is fairly balanced now ever since they nerfed the hindered effect. The only nerf I could still see happening is a slight increase in his cancel cooldown duration, but maybe that's not necessary.
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He even says in the thread about the Legion that they are OP and should be destroyed like SM.
From this I can infer that he is either being sarcastic, trolling, or simply very incompetent.-10 -
being not fun to play against for survivors is a sign that the killer is powerful and good at doing their job. Wear it like a badge of honor.
-5 -
Except it's like 90% of the survivor player base that hates ghoul they don't like his grab vaults, his grab attack nor his short cooldown when landing right next to them. Those are the areas they are gonna have to be forced to nerf more
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You should know Survivors don't like legion with his free hits his mending sim and just general unfun experience
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You still cant beat him around a pallet its actually so stupid.
I honestly will just start calling this killer nurse lite. As its just under her power level, but for people that cant play nurse due to her learning curve.1 -
He'd be okay if they nerfed him a lot more, the Killer takes literal 0 skill to use and is overkited, still, despite the "nerfs". His power cancel needs a huge nerf.
I find Kaneki players getting 4ks when they literally don't even actually know how to play with the fundamentals. They all easily fall for mindgames, run around like a chicken with their head cut off, making all kinds of mistakes that would cost other Killers an entire gen, yet because of their mobility they easily are always right ontop of you or spreading mapwide pressure.
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Yeah like infamously high tier killers like Legion, Skull Merchant, Trickster, Knight, and Clown.
Survivors only like playing against low tiers they can easily beat like Wesker, Hillbilly, Oni, and Huntress.
And if the sarcasm isn't obvious, it's not power level, it's how engaging the killer's power is to play against.
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Here's the best example Survivors just don't like Kaneki landing next to you and with such a short cooldown increase his cancel cooldown to 5 seconds to give survivors a chance for actual counterplay
-5 -
It's early days, but I feel like he's less oppressive with this patch, he doesn't seem to get everything for free now.
You forcing him to break pallet is a heavy punishment now, and you can actually make another tile now with change. With thw reduced hinder on vaults, if he's a little slow/late latching on you at windows and pallets you can make it round TLs and shorter tiles... still a pain but not as oppressive as it was...
But to anyone saying he's like Legion and a low C/D tier killer, I'm trying to work out what Kaneki doesn't have that Wraith does that makes Wraith stronger than Kaneki...
- Greatest mobility in the game at 14m/s for the duration of leaps (max 1s) and 23m/s for the 0.8s of slide vs. Wraith's 6m/s cloaked movement for map mobility and objective control.
- Same movement difference can get ahead of survivors much faster and be cancelled to be much more effective at cutting off long tiles like the back of shack, body blocking windows and pallet vaults, with a shorter recovery (2s) than Wraiths uncloak time (3s).
- Hitscan injury meaning you only need to be a m1 killer for 1 health state vs. Wraith who has to successfully sneak up on survivors to get his injury.
- Has enraged vault that Wraith doesn't have at all.
Like genuinely what does Wraith have that Ghoul doesn't?
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It's literally just predrop pallet with him now that's all survivors are doing to hold his power hostage
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Not really, Billy is powerful and he is one of my most favorite killers to play against.
I personally enjoy playing against Blight, Wesker and even Nurse (unless wall hack build).
Skully was one of most hated killers in DBD, but she wasn't really that strong in reality…3 -
Legion
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Legion is only unfun to go against when you are stuck on a team that doesnt spread out and also doesnt body block against feral snowballing.
Seems contradictory I know but body blocking a feral chain is extremely effective and then you spread out again.
Survivor teams just make it annoying as they often run in the same direction, bunch up on the same generator, refuse to body block feral in mend for non-mended teammates.
Its not something that can be taught unfortunately.4 -
I am sorry but where on earth do you have these statistics from? Especially considering he was just nerfed again three days ago, and there is still a broken bug of him that also affects his perception?
I am really not convinced BHVR has to nerf all those areas to make more survivor players happy.
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cognitive bias
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Tbh I only hate Legion in 2v8.
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Take Dissolution. On long tiles used your enraged vault, on short tiles hold W to force them to vault it and break the pallet.
If all else fails break it to create a Dead Zone and then at the next tile if you still can't catch them round a pallet, merely herd them to the same side as the tile you just broke and break that pallet too. Name the map where this doesn't work and it's probably a survivor sided map anyway.
This is of course using the lamest way to play Ghoul, using the actual real strengths of Ghoul properly, Ghoul is still plenty strong. QuietKills here seems to have absolutely no issue playing around a pre-dropped pallet multiple times... and if you look at his video history, QuietKills is actually a Kaneki defender and advocates consistently for NOT gutting Kaneki.
So I dunno man. Ghoul looks still plenty strong to me.
-2 -
It's a fair assumption literally no survivor is liking the ghoul and even now is still hated and wanted by survivors to be nerfed more
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That doesn't make him overpowered though...
-1 -
We all know that's not true. Fun does not care about balance or power.
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An autoaim hitscan ability taking an entire health state is never going to be fun to play against. It's a huge payoff for doing literally the barest minimum conceivable. There's no skill expression or real interaction, it's just whether LOS was maintained long enough for someone to click a mouse or press a button. Throwing a super charged version of scamper on top of that and giving him a shorter fatigue on cancel than literally every other similar killer is also just never going to be enjoyable to play against especially since they completely nullify the supposed weakness of the grab attack, which is that it can't down on its own. Well, it doesn't need to since it just puts you immediately in range for the follow up M1.
The only reason they're drip feeding the nerfs is because it's a new licensed chapter that they still want to sell. If they actually cared about the gameplay experience he would have released much weaker as a trade for being so easy to play. Well, TBH, if they cared about the gameplay experience he would have released with an entirely different power.
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Right now my biggest problem with Ghoul is the stun on a leap attack. If they got rid of survivors being stun locked, I think he'd feel a LOT better to play against, because even though the hit is free, the distance you get while Ghoul enrages would be more meaningful following the hit, and his power will still allow him to close that distance pretty quickly.
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He will never be balanced because he was programmed to be busted. The insane priority he has in his attack is simply unstoppable, he will hit you and there is nothing you can do about it.
If the tentacle took a certain amount of time to travel to maybe hit a structure and he would launch himself towards it, maybe there would be some counterplay involving forcing him to jump through a window or pallet or simply miss the survivor.
If he had a precision shot similar to the Slinger he would be healthier, but of course BHVR would not make such a popular character a piece of crap to play on consoles, it is not financially smart
So accept that the character will always be r&tarded and #gonext
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I actually believe that, regardless of how many nerfs he gets, he will always be frustrating to play against while his grab attack works like it does today. It's not just about how strong he is, it's about how much counterplay he has X how much skill it takes. And that grab has no counterplay in most situations while taking little to no skill or precision.
Seriously, he would already be strong if had only mobility without his grab attack, but the way his grab works is probably the most obvious "easy to do with no-counterplay" killer ability I've ever seen. He just need to pull himself at any object once for mobility, than patiently hover his cursor at a survivor and click: you did it, free injury! And even if the target is already injured, it takes deep wound for free, which means time wasted if he leaves you or no dead hard if he chases you, and he also easily unlocks his enraged mode! It's similar to Legion's injury ability, except that one takes way longer to perform (as they need to run after you, doesn't cover the distance instantly), can be countered with the right distance or perks, they still have to aim the swing normally, and they are punished on a miss! The Ghoul doesn't have any of that. He just aims from afar, clicks, and the effects instantly occurs. The survivor is not able to dodge or gain time before it occurs, it just happens.
The only way of avoiding to get injured by a Ghoul is to either stay behind an object, a window or a downed pallet AFTER his first leap (because he uses the first leap to get in position and have line of sight of you anyway). But that falls to some stuff out of the control of the survivor:
- Being able to do this or not depends entirely on wheter or not there are objects close enough to do this before the Ghoul dashes twice. On maps with a lot of clutter it's one thing, but on clean corridors or open spaces it is just impossible, you won't have an object close enough to protect yourself and literally NOTHING else can be done.
- This also means you need to pre-drop a lot of pallets, hence why he got that cooldown nerf. You often can't wait for him to use his power to drop the pallet, because if you try to save time and resources by letting the pallet up and keep running, you may not get a second chance to drop it, he can catch you mid-loop or from afar with ease. That means you need to spend the resources on the map really fast just in order to avoid getting injured, and once they are spent, he is an insanely fast killer who can automatically injure you and close distances with ridiculous ease.
- Even if there IS an object between the two of you, you need to stay on running on a direction that keeps the object between you two until his power is over, and it lasts way longer than Blight's or Wesker's, he can wait WAY more than them before making a second leap. If a survivor completely changes their pathing just to have a chance at not being injured, they are often forced to outposition themselves and run in a bad direction for them, to the point the ghoul can just pull himself towards the object, land near the survivor and simply give them a basic attack with his normal 115% speed.
In other words, you only have an actual counter if you're in an indoor map and can get behind entire walls and keep running, and even those have areas he will still injure you no matter what.
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He can still be a D Tier killer and still be horribly unfun to go against
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And that still doesn't make him deserving of a nerf. I don't like facing M1 killers. I massively prefer Nurse because I like her style of chase. Should we nerf every M1 killer and buff Nurse? NO.
-1 -
Your comparing m1s to a power that nobody finds fun if there's enough vocal complaints he will be changed simple as that also saying you'd prefer a nurse is a wild tell
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Kaneki is nowhere near the only killer to get free hits with his power. He still can't down with it and his anti loop is extremely limited. There's no reason to nerf him, especially because he's not even that good
-2 -
Doesn't matter if he's good or not if majority finds him unfun he will be changed simple.
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That's objectively false but keep coping
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Keep thinking that when he's nerfed to oblivion
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Keep crying when he's not
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