http://dbd.game/killswitch
Why can survivors give up on loss, but killers can't?
Just title.
Doesn't it seem a bit hypocritical from the devs to allow survivors to give up and go next when they're in a losing situation (all survivors are down) but when killers are in a losing situation they are not given the same option? When the gates are opened the killer can't just give up if they want to. They have to be there for match completion as the survivors teabag at the gate or spam fast vaults, etc.
I'm not asking about whether or not it would be optimal to give up in this situation. That's not the point. The point is that there is no option for A team, but there is one for B team. A team is forced to play their losses to the end. B team is not. Where is the balance in this situation?
Comments
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While I get losing as killer is frustrating, especially against Survivors who think they're hot ######### even when all they did was gen rush a meme build Trapper with BNP Commodius' while running Lithe, Windows, Syringes and every second chance perks under the sun... I've never really found myself too put out by survivors hanging around.
To play devil's advocate, EGC is 2 minutes instead of 4 minutes, and if survivors are in gate, there is nothing to stop you just slapping them out of gate to end their BS. Its especially funny on someone like Twins or Houndmaster who can actually injure and down you before you can leave.
I don't really let either gate teabags or slugging/humping bother me really. I almost never run meta, so it doesn't prove anything for me to lose against someone going hard. It's like good job Blight... you caught the no item Kate running Tenacity, Soul Guard, Plot Twist and WGLF... good for you. 😏
Same of course when you get rolled as a meme build killer... like who cares honestly? This way of playing really does make it much harder to tilt... 😁
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It's not really all that relevant if you personally are upset by the toxicity or not. That's not the point. The point is how it seems unfair to give one team something and not give the other team the same courtesy. It seems unbalanced.
BHVR is supposed to be neutral, right?
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I doubt they thought too deeply in those changes tbh
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If Behavior were neutral, they wouldn't allow Nemesis to be 130%+ movement speed the entire match and wait days to weeks to kill switch it.
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Bugs are bugs, they are not by design. Nemesis is not even the only bugged killer this patch (FAR from) and the majority of the bugs are harmful to the killer player. Yet you deemed worth it to write that post about one of the few cases in which it's beneficial. That's just selective mentality.
Either way, bugs are not intentional so they are not in the topic of this thread. BHVR is bug incompetent for every side.
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That only tells they are neutral because they didn't even killswitch boilover when it completely denied hooks and allowed survivors to take killers hostage with no mither
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Meh, fair point.
I guess I'm one of those players who doesn't typically use the Abandon feature on Survivor either unless I'm in a SWF and they're waiting on me, so I suppose I've not really got a horse in this race 😅
If I get slugged I play a new game of try to bleed out without being found... Tenacity FTW 😏
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The solution is actually very simple: once the gate is opened, Killers should have the option to abandon the match. They can either choose to keep playing in hopes of a comeback or abandon immediately when the gate opens. Survivors would be counted as having escaped, and the Killer would take a loss. That’s it.
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Where is the balance in this situation?
Same place as the balance in having a 60% kill rate and 40% escape rate.
It's almost like having hopeless matches and a game balance designed around your team losing more than the other team, also seems to have a direct impact on the player.
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Simple - because some Killers decided that it is funny to let Survivors bleed out for 4 minutes, while Killers always had the option to a) start the EGC (which is 2 minutes instead of 4 minutes) and b) to force Survivors out of the Exit Gates, meaning they have an option to end it quicker. Survivors not.
And because those Killers thought it was funny to slug everyone until bleedout, Survivors are now allowed to skip waiting around for 4 minutes.
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That's a silly argument when we both know toxic people do it on both sides.
Seriously, what compels a person to actually start typing a post with the intent of defending unbalance? How does one fall so low? Like is that really what people are proud of? Defending unbalance?1 -
I was just answering your question. Nothing more. Sorry that the correct answer to your question is not the one you wanted. I try again:
The Devs are super survivor-sided and want to torture Killers.
Better? /s
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Whoa, you might be one of the most toxic people I've seen in this forum. Wouldn't surprise me if you were the sort of person who let survivors bleed out and refused to leave at the gates.
That's not "the correct answer" that was just your argument. You do not own the truth. And I pointed out how your argument was flawed. To which you did not defend, you just decided to be toxic. Maybe when you have an argument we can try this again, until then, work on becoming a better person.
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Sorry, but my answer IS the correct answer. Sorry to disappoint you, but the Abandon-Feature came because there was an increase in slugging. Both to win the game (because slugging is honestly too strong and too easy to do) AND to be toxic. And the increase must have been significant for the Devs to act.
Yet, there was and is not really a need to do the same for Killer, simply because Killers (unlike Survivors) have ways to get the game to an End. All Gens done? Open the Exit Gates. Exit Gates open, but Survivors not leaving? Either force them out (yes, you might see them pressing a button, get over it) OR run around the Map, collect BPs or whatever. Meanwhile, Survivors cannot do anything when slugged until bleedout, they can only crawl around at the lowest speed possible in the game. For double the time Killers would have to wait for the EGC to finish WITHOUT any possibility to speed it up.
I dont really know what to tell you, but I think it is pretty clear when you put away your "BHVR favors Survivors"-glasses. Killers brought this upon themselves. Maybe not the majority of Killer players. Maybe not even you yourself. But others are the reason for the change.
And you making things up how I might play or not play does not really change that my answer is the correct one. But, just for the record - I almost never teabag and I try to avoid slugging as much as possible, unless it is for pressure because I really, really need it. But you wont see me hovering over you, humping you. You also wont see me waiting at the Exit Gate until you approach to see me leave.
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You only lose 1 times more in 10 matches compared to 50% KR, and game had 60%+ kill rate for vast majority of it's life span including older versions
Calling it "hopeless matches" is ridiculous statement
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I find it kind of weird that ever since the abandon feature as survivor I haven’t seen a single losing match to the conclusion. Like it’s an auto everyone leaves instantly. I just find the whole concept weird. It’s like if we were playing football games and every time the timer for the end of the game was done the losing team just instantly left, like immediately walked off the field. No conclusion winding up the matches, announcements, shaking hands, nothing. Like it’s just anticlimactic and would make it look petty that the losing team didn’t even stay to see it to the conclusion.
Like the equivalent of this would be if as soon as the final gen was completed the killer could instantly abandon as well. I mean this would be fair based on the survivor abandon criteria, but this would sound just as weird as the survivor one to me. Same issues. It’s just instantly leaving for convenience without seeing the game to the conclusion.
I feel like this abandon feature should’ve been to avoid toxicity such as bleeding survivors out or something, not just as a way to save time and go next faster while avoiding good sportsmanship. How it’s currently used harms the integrity of the game imo, even if most people find it “convenient”.
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I agree with this with one exception - cheevos and maybe some endgame challenges left over. In such a case, then give the Survivors points towards the achievement? Or retire that cheevo?
Your tone is very arrogant here. Let's rephrase it so you understand where Killer players are coming from asking for this.
"Sorry to disappoint you, but we released Kaneki strong to counter super strong loopers. Both to win the game (because looping is too strong and too easy to do), AND to be toxic. The increase must have been significant or Devs would not have released another S tier!"
"Slugged? Just take the DC! Killer found hatch first? Just open a gate OR run around the map giving up! Meanwhile Killers cannot do anything with both gates open EXCEPT force people out and run around the map, they can only watch while your team teabags in the gates unless they're one of a few Killers or brought a certain perk. For double the time that Killers have to wait instead of simply DCing like you can when slugged."
"I don't know what to tell you, but it's clear when you put away your 'BHVR favors Killers' glasses. Survivors brought slugging upon themselves. Maybe not most Survivors, maybe not you, but others are why Kaneki is too strong."
"Just for the record I play Trapper and almost never blind, never bring syringes, never SWF, and try to avoid Teabagging in the gates or harassing baby Killers as much as possible, unless I really really need the pressure. You won't see ME noise-spamming to make the Killer watch me leave!"
See how bad this sounds? Either we all get a fair forfeit feature in situations that are unfun and unwinnable, or nobody gets one. I think we ALL should get one.-3 -
both cases are not in anyway comparable
you as killer can open the gates and push the survivors out there's no way for survivors to hold you hostage but you are being such a snowflake that you can't handle seeing a couple of button presses
while survivors can spend 4 minutes on the ground with no way to overcome it and if they dc they get penalized
bhvr didn't put the abandon option in the killer's case because 1- just cause all gens are done doesn't mean you Lost 2- you can end the game yourself you're not being held against your will.
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Doesn't it seem a bit hypocriticalNope, its an asym, the two sides are having different games. If we start talking about hypocrisy, the whole game is hypocrisy.
allow survivors to give up and go next when they're in a losing situation (all survivors are down)This isn't just a 'losing' situation, this is a 'lost' situation. Its not like survivors can abandon if a killer has someone eliminated and there are still four gens to go, even though they are clearly losing. Its for the situations where the game is over and sticking around is kind of pointless.
With how killer queues have been, getting survivors out of the match and back into the next one is also kind of necessary.
When the gates are opened the killer can't just give up if they want to.I think this would be fine for the killer to leave and be replaced by a bot.
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I agree with the bot idea at the end there crogers, problem is we do not have bots for every Killer yet. I hope in time we will, and then such a feature can be implemented.
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I just find the whole concept weird. It’s like if we were playing football games and every time the timer for the end of the game was done the losing team just instantly leftA few points
1: If we're talking professional sports, well they've been paid for a certain amount of time (the TV networks are still running ads, the stadium is still selling merch). Much different than a purely recreational activity. On a recreational front, I've played lots of games where one team / player got such a large lead that everyone agreed it wasn't worth playing it out and we just move on and play something else.
College and high school sports have mercy rules to end blowouts quicker.
2: If by football we mean American football, it certainly has something like this. When one team has an insurmountable lead they put in their backups and they run the ball more to speed up the clock. Frequently the losing team does the same.
It also has the 'kneel down' play meant to literally just run out the clock.
3: If by football we're talking about soccer, the nature of the game's score means that it is rarely impossible for it to be completely out of reach. Given leads are usually 1 or 2 goals, you aren't going to have the same disparity as exists in something like DbD.
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Asking this question is ignoring why It was implemented in the first place.
Killers already had a chance to show people what they would do without the feature. And unfortunately, they would unnecessarily extend the match, with no way for survivors to do anything about it for several minutes. The survivor role.
The exit gates, you can go push them out, your arent powerless. It does not take several minutes.
One is based on gameplay mechanical abuse, the other is based on feelings.
Push them out, or go break things for points. There is no need to give this to killers who cant stand losing.
Truth hurts :\-1 -
I always remember the phrase.
What is allowed to Jupiter is not allowed to the bull.Because the only correct answer is BOTH OPTIONS ARE TERRIBLE - 4 MINUTE SLUG AND WAITING AT THE GATE TO MAKE A T-BAG. Both options should be equally condemned.
Otherwise it looks like class inequality, where one privileged side tells you that your feelings do not matter. After all, serving and entertaining me (survivor or killer) is its own reward. This usually does not end well in the long run. This is how wars begin, punishers appear and the least protected players (solo players and M1 killers) suffer. Of course, the favorite game is us versus them full of hatred.
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I was referencing American and not professional. Like you don’t generally see any of this in recreational sports. Like I played sports all my life growing up as a kid and even we get destroyed we saw the whole game through till the end, shook hands, stayed for the announcements ect.
If every time we were too far behind to win we just instantly quit and walked off the field that would look so petty and childish. It’s not good sportsmanship.
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Just because the exit gates are open doesnt mean the game is over. Survivor on the other hand, if everyone is being bled out there is literally nothing else they can do unless they have a way to pick themselves back up.
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Well, I just cant help but come out and say it - this abandon mechanic was something that killers made necessary. Not all of course, however far too often in recent times, I was facing killers who bled me out for just under 4 minutes to hump me and mori me because they got tilted in game (I am not toxic at all btw).
EGC is an annoying thing to wait out for sure, however you can push survivors out and it still isn't as unfair as the potential to bleed an entire lobby out for 4 minutes. Something that was also becoming more common, I suspect in small part due to content creators who thought this was a great solution to their in game woes.
Well… you wanted this toxic killers, as this is what you were asking for when you decided to bleed out lobby after lobby. I find it hard to feel too bad in all honesty. Except for the decent people playing killer, as it is a nasty minority that ruined it for the majority.
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For more than half of the killers, gates opened and survivor being healthy is 100% lose scenario, and there is nothing else killers can do
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yup, gotten many kills and hookstates/points because of over cocky survivors.
Its honestly the best feeling in this game is getting someone at the exit gates XDThat’s fair to bring up, but the comparison doesn't really hold when you look at how games like DBD function versus real-life sports.
In a recreational sport, there’s a guaranteed fixed length, and both sides are expected to see it through because there's value in playing for prestige/money, learning from mistakes, or just getting the exercise. There’s no equivalent of one team forcing the other to stand still for 5 minutes while they celebrate, which is what "bleeding out" often amounted to in DBD.
DBD isn’t a fixed-time game. It’s a player-determined match where one side can literally prolong the ending just because they feel like it. That’s not sportsmanship, that’s stalling. The abandon feature wasn't created so people could "rage quit"; it was created so people don’t get held hostage by players who won’t let the game end.
The exit gates being powered doesnt mean the game is over by a long shot as many have pointed out. And the time it would take to push people out is 10-20 seconds.
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“Being bled out” is adding additional criteria than what actually exists. The criteria is going down, that’s it. You can all abandon immediately. The abandon feature is not activating because you’re being bled out in its current iteration. Everyone getting slugged does not imply you’re being bled out.
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The feature was legit implemented to deal with killer abusing slugging to win games that why it is cout as an escape when the killer slugging everyone because they arnt play in a regular fassion the game supposed to be played so they all get a win the real problem is that the fact slugging take 0 effort at all and takes little effort to snowball with a slug especially with the last 6 killers released
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No, there isn’t a fixed time normally, you’re thinking of specific sports. In recreational sports we also aren’t playing for money or prestige. None of these things apply. You’re also acting like the abandon feature is for bleed outs, it’s not. You’re able to abandon immediately on being downed. Yall being slugged is not yall being bled out. The vast, vast majority of all the abandons like 99% are just as soon as they hit the ground. So no, we aren’t talking laying there for 5min while they “celebrate”, that’s disingenuous.
The abandon feature is absolutely not to prevent being held hostage. That is like a decimal percentage of games. 99% of matches abandoned are literally just normal games that you’re being allowed to abandon early to go next faster. That’s it. In the vast majority of matches it IS used as rage quit to move on faster.
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You just said earlier about handshakes and …. announcements? What? Who does this in pick up games?
I think we’re actually circling the same issue from two different angles.
You’re right that people are using the abandon feature the moment they go down, not necessarily waiting for a 5-minute bleed-out. That’s absolutely true. But that doesn’t mean the reason it was implemented didn’t originate from stalling and hostage scenarios.
The sports analogy, I think it breaks down because DBD isn’t built on the same expectations or pacing. In sports, even recreational ones, both sides agree to the clock, the structure, and the outcome. In DBD, the power imbalance means one side can stall for no reason except personal satisfaction or pettiness. There’s no handshake at the end when the last survivor is forced to lie on the ground for 3 minutes.
Abandoning early doesn’t feel like poor sportsmanship in this context. It feels like skipping a pointless wait, where there's nothing to gain, no comeback potential, and no actual play left.
If the endgame were 10–20 seconds long every time, I don’t think we’d even need this conversation. But it often is not. And the moment the game makes you just sit there for someone else’s satisfaction, it stops being a game and becomes a chore. That’s what the feature is addressing.
Like the equivalent of this would be if as soon as the final gen was completed the killer could instantly abandon as well. I mean this would be fair based on the survivor abandon criteria,
This statement though just ignores so much context on completion of the last generator, and end game in general. I think you meant to say once the gates are opened, but even that really fails. Because that still is a mechanic to escaping, and you can get great, average, or poor outcomes on gate positions.
You can still get a kill or a win, even when the last generator is completed.
Once the gates are powered though its still alive not everyone is at the gate. You dont know that.Its just a poor equivalence here, the game is not preventing you from playing like slugging/downed/hooked is. The game isnt over yet or immobilizing you from play just because the exit gates are powered.
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Literally yes?? if all 4 Survivors are on the ground with no perks to get themselves up they have literally 0 options. A killer on the other hand once the gates are open still have a chance to turn the game around.
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The surrender system was built specifically for the survivors to abuse and to punish the killers. Why would the devs then turn around and throw the killer a bone after going out of their way to build a system designed from the ground up to punish the killer?
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Bleeding out is not you being 4 slugged, it’s yall being left there to bleed out. Yet if you get 4 slugged you can immediately leave even before you’ve had the chance to see him pick you up.
A 4 slug and being bled out are two different things.
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I wrestled and ran distance in high school. With wrestling there is a built in way the match ends, if there is an extreme mismatch it will last literally seconds before a pin.
On American football, as I mentioned, the winning team can speed up the game by running the ball, which is usually what happens.
I think @ChuckingWong and I are using recreational to mean more like pick up basketball where its a bunch of people who just make teams on the spot. There I've been in lots of situations where one side has a big lead and everyone agrees it would be a better idea to move on (and if there is time just start a new game with better teams).
My point being that sports do have ways to speed up matches that have already been decided and a lot of 'unwritten' rules on how the game should be played (the winning team drawing out the game being viewed as bad). In addition, there's a big difference between a sport which you might play two or three times a week, and DbD where people can play hundreds of games a week. In the former, a few extra minutes is not a big deal, in the latter extra time in even a quarter of your games really adds up.
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cause survivors are crybabies and will review bomb the game and stop buying feng skins if behavior tries to go against them
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I still think it sours the match and for the winner.
Given this point of view though are you in favor of allowing the killer to abandon as well once it’s only bots left and it gives him the win? Currently it takes the win from them unless they stay there wasting their time with bots.
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Given this point of view though are you in favor of allowing the killer to abandon as well once it’s only bots left and it gives him the win? Currently it takes the win from them unless they stay there wasting their time with bots.Yes, though BHVR's messaging has been extremely confusing on the win/draw, killers absolutely should be able to abandon and given the win.
I also think killer should be able to abandon and replaced with a bot if the doors have been opened for cases where survivors are just sitting around to teabag.
I think it would be reasonable for either survivors or killers (presuming the gate open scenario) to have a minimum of 15 second before they abandon so the match can still end 'normally', though BHVR has chosen not to go in that route (likely for coding simplicity which I think would be a valid reason).
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Well at least you’re consistent then, that’s fair. I agree with those points.
I was thinking more 30 seconds to give plenty of time for any potential unbreakables or whatnot to set up and/or give the killer a chance to hook at least, but we agree on the principle here it seems.
I still think we’d be better off without the feature at all or only for “actual” toxicity and not just speeding up the matches, but if this is the route they are going then yeah I agree with all those other points being the route they should go.
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Ok... but at that point why wait for the pick up and everyone getting hooked when the game is already over??? Whether the killer wants to bleed them out or hook them it all leads to the same outcome.
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The point is that you called the abandon feature as being for toxicity when I pointed at that is not accurate as you abandoning as soon as your down was not a toxic scenario and that is 99% of the scenarios being abandoned.
The conversation wasn’t about whether the abandon feature is good for cutting wasted time, the conversation was that you said it was for avoiding toxicity, but it’s not.
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Where did I say it was toxic??? When Im saying "being bled out" its mainly because well... what else can they do? Wait to be hooked?
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Being bled out description is implied toxicity by basically everyone. Also, as I already said before, the abandon is immediate, so you aren't being bled out in these scenarios as you describe, it's just a go next faster feature. Saying it's to prevent being bled out isn't true in 99% of cases.
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It really comes down to one factor: Punishing griefing.
Unfortunately, griefing tools being punished often remove interactions or concepts in this game. It doesn't need to be that way with this.
Simply ONLY punish excessive endgame waiting in the gates, excessive noise spam, etc. by letting the Killer Abandon after one minute if they do not move and nobody is on a hook, or if the Survivors are waiting in the gate doing nothing and nobody is hooked. There's almost never any reason to spend more than one minute in the exit gate if nobody is on a hook, nobody is healing, and nobody is moving. This does not harm endgame saves, endgame heals, or other endgame plays.
As for noise spam, introduce a vaulting cooldown when a Survivor vaults the same pallet or vault outside of the Killer's TR whenever they vault five times in a row. Give them a stacking hinder or block it if needs be. There is NEVER a reason to ever do noise spam period except to annoy the Killer until they watch you leave, because you need it for some kind of ego boost. It's as silly and lame as humping a Survivor on the ground.0 -
There's bots for survivors who dc, not killers. And I feel it would probably be pretty hard to make a killer bot. So killers don't have the option to leave or surrender because the entire lobby is dependent on them being there. Anytime the killer dc's the match is done and over with for all 5 players. It makes sense to me.
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