http://dbd.game/killswitch
Excuse me, but a surrender is a defeat and it should feel like a defeat, not like a draw
Comments
-
@LockerLurk has already said what needs to be said regarding this one, and it perfectly explains why this downvote system is horrible and should be removed from the Forums.
Nothing about this unwelcoming system actually has any meaning, especially when there is no discussion to follow.
EDIT: And just like that, one downvote on my previous comment that I have zero idea why it was done. Hell, I hate this feature.
To whoever chose to downvote my comments, at least tell me why. Share with me your thoughts, your perspective. We can have a respectful discussion about it, maybe find common ground.
2 -
BHVR simply needs to clarify that MMR adjustments are completely disconnected from actual wins and losses. They need to stop saying things like draw when they actually mean MMR neutral. Words like draw is for actual win conditions themselves.
For example, if you escape through a hatch, you succeeded at your win condition of escaping, but behind the scenes, the MMR adjustments is neutral. You won, but your MMR remains the same.
MMR systems are only interested in making future matches more fair and are usually not tied to any win/loss condition. For example, in chess, a grandmaster winning vs a newbie doesn't mean his ranking increases despite winning, and the newbies ranking doesn't drop despite losing. All the ranking cares is about adjusting future matches regardless of the match outcome. DBD does the same. Winning via a hatch is MMR neutral. Losing and abandoning the match is a failure to survivor and you lose, but it's also MMR neutral.
For whatever reason though, BHVR won't clarify this. We as players don't care about the behind the scenes match adjustments - we care about if the match was won, lost, or drawn. BHVR on the other hand cares less about if we won lost or drew a match and more about adjusting the hidden MMR. When they speak, they are speaking from their POV, not the players', so it ends up causing accidental miscommunication and misunderstanding.
1 -
I also have someone who downvotes me whenever they find me in a post. Once I was talking with a pig main and we were booping the snoot and the secret adversary even gave me a downvote for that lol. 😋 Some people just ask a normal question and they get a downvote. Truly wild.
If anything, as bad as it feels to have someone "targeting" you or your posts, that just means that you've gotten under someone's skin. Something you said resonated with them, it took up rent in their head. The upvote downvote system is contraversial, and I get why it is. But I do kinda understand how it feels to see the exact same person making the exact same kind of biased comment, and why an upvote/downvote is appealing instead of getting into another converation that will end up nowhere because the poster doesn't acutally want to be challenged they want to be heard/agreed with.I get how the downvotes/upvotes is a quick way to acknowledge what someone is saying by agreeing or disagreeing with them, without having to repeat the exact same conversations. Personally, I love discussions. I've spoken to many people here on the forums (including you! You are always kind to talk to) but it's kind of surprsing how many people are on this forum for discussion but don't actually want to discuss at all. I think people make the mistake of coming to the forums looking for people to validate the feelings or beliefs they already have rather than question if they are the correct ones. I'm sure you've experienced that before as well.
In any case, sorry to hear you've experienced some disagreeable forum behavior and felt the need to private your profile because of it.
@Topic, yes I completely agree. A draw should be a loss no matter which role does it or whatever situation caused it. (Unless hacking was invovled) Hopefully they will make adjustments as they did already clarify they are aware the surrender system needs some work. A Draw = Give up = Lose the game. Draws should never come from surrender imo.1 -
The downvote system is far from perfect… that’s true. It can be abused, it lacks context, and it doesn’t foster healthy conversation by default. But it does reflect something: resonance.
Whether it’s a YouTube video, a product review, or a forum comment… up/down feedback is a shorthand for how a statement lands with an audience. It’s not definitive proof of being right or wrong, but it does capture something else: alignment or disconnect.
Yes, people might downvote impulsively or anonymously. Some may even create alt accounts to manipulate numbers (the occasional hobbyist of self-deception, let’s say). That’s the flaw of any open system.
But pretending those votes mean “nothing at all” ignores the collective signal they send. If a comment is well-written, insightful, and balanced… even if it’s controversial → it usually finds support. If it gets buried repeatedly, that says something, too.
In a perfect world, every disagreement would come with a reply. But silence combined with a downvote is a form of response. It just lacks nuance. Still, the pattern matters.
We can critique the system without pretending it’s meaningless. It’s not ideal, but it’s not invisible either.
-1 -
To be honest, friend, I disagree.
A downvote only ever has meaning if it is followed by a proper reply explaining why there was a disagreement. In fact, that is how it used to be when we only had the upvote option: things were better because constructive discussions were encouraged. Sure, not every discussion was constructive and respectful, but at least there was nothing discouraging them from happening.
Now there is.
And without the discussions, these numbers serve no purpose other than to create an unwelcoming environment. Let me give you an example. One of my own, of course:
What do they mean?
Are they disagreeing because they would make the comparison between Old Freddy and Wraith? Are they disagreeing with the differences in gameplay? Are they disagreeing on the specifics of playing Old Freddy in the same way people played Wraith? Was it a troll? A miss-click?
There is just no way of knowing if the discussion doesn't happen. And, out of 141 downvotes I currently have, none of them led to a conversation.
It is not something the Forums should have. It doesn't mean anything, just feels bad to look at.
0 -
I'm fairly confident that there are some downvote bots, as well. Some posts don't remotely make sense to downvote, at all, and yet it'll get downvoted. For example, a post could ask do you mostly play survivor or killer? If someone posts responds with simply their preferred role, it'll get downvoted.
2 -
I have one to share, my dear friend:
I guess Vigo isn't their goat.
(Mods please remove this downvote feature it is genuinely awful and it is actively hurting the Forums).
1 -
In a discussion about the old rarity colors, someone said you can easily fix them by installing the old rarity icons. I replied saying console is stuck with the old rarity colors because we can't install icon packs.
That got a downvote.
What the hell does a downvote there mean? Was I wrong? Can icons be installed on console? If so, the person who downvoted didn't explain how.
I don't use Reddit for a reason. I don't like the forums bringing that meaningless negativity here.
Very rarely do I know what a downvote on a comment I made means. A lot of my comments are long and have a lot of different parts, so I have no idea what part of the comment was disagreed with. Or my comment is stating a fact. What does downvoting a fact mean? They don't like it? Dude, I don't like that console is so limited in what we can do, that's why I complain about it so much, what is the purpose of the downvote?
Edit: Since this whole post is about being confused as to the meaning of downvotes, this was obviously downvoted so I would ask "Why was this downvoted?" Nice try.
Post edited by TragicSolitude on2 -
Well said, my friend, I agree completely.
Just like you, I also don't like Reddit for this exact same reason. Their downvote system is even worse because it hides the comment, even if the comment was reasonable and just happened to have a different point of view.
I am also having the same problem of identifying where the disagreement even is, because the system is discouraging discussions on a platform made for discussions, and because of that I've yet to receive a reply. If I may, friend, let me share another example:
Like, what does the downvotes mean here?
Are they saying we shouldn't get a Classic DBD modifier? Are they saying the Classic modifier should include access to Legacy cosmetics. Are they saying it shouldn't include 2017 / 2018 DBD? Are they disagreeing that the Old DBD was a better game?
There is just no way to know. And how are we supposed to have a discussion if all we get are numbers with zero explanation?
0 -
Their downvote system is even worse because it hides the comment, even if the comment was reasonable and just happened to have a different point of view.
Yup. I think on these forums if the original post gets downvoted enough the thread stops being bumped when it gets replies.
And how are we supposed to have a discussion if all we get are numbers with zero explanation?
We don't. And then someone says something along the lines of "get ratioed" or "your opinion means less because you get lots of downvotes" and the discussion gets off track talking about downvotes. (Like 'ratioed' means anything on any forum, but it means even less on a forum for a 1v4 game with a notorious habit of devolving into us vs them arguments.) Or I've seen someone who disagrees with a post that got a single downvote, and then the person who disagreed gets accused of being the downvoter. What? Like it would matter, anyway, but that's a bold assumption to make and it's a very bad look to openly accuse someone like that. Seeing a poster trying to publicly shame someone for using an anonymous feature as intended is just one more sign this is not a good feature to implement.
2 -
Just a heads up - the thread is starting to get detailed.
2 -
Indeed. I alluded to that in the comment. ;)
Back on topic.
I'd like to have a good reply for the original post, but unfortunately we have no clarification (as far as I know) about what BHVR even meant when they said survivors abandoning is a draw and killers abandoning is a loss for the killer. In a different thread I stated that BHVR shouldn't have made any comment at all, especially if they're only referring to private data and not MMR, because all they managed to do was create a huge amount of confusion.
I guess I can share my opinion. A survivor abandoning is a loss for the survivor and both MMR and internal data should reflect as much. A killer abandoning should be a draw. The only thing I care about there are the Bloodpoints: killers should not get the BP as if they killed the remaining survivors, and survivors should not get BP as if they escaped. Let MMR be unaffected. I do like survivors dropping dead when the killer abandons, just for the clarification it was an abandon and not a disconnect.
1 -
I'm just gonna say thank GOD there are other sane people on this forum that sees the system of up and downvotes for what it really is, and why it's a very bad idea to have in this community. 1000 downvotes of my own, and not one genuine discussion WHY the person doing it felt that way. TALK TO ME. Like actually talk!
Back on topic. I'm happy the Devs did the sensible thing on the PTB and made certain abandons a Survivor may do a loss. Forfeiting is a loss. If you choose to give up, it's a loss. Like, I don't care if you want to give up, I would also give up if slugged like this, I indeed have several times. But that's because I knew the game was a loss, the Killer won and just wouldn't actually pick up and hook because they wanted to have a power trip.When you lose, it's a loss (… and the sky is blue, LockerLurk, lmao). If everyone ends up slugged on the ground or there is no other way Survivors can continue their goal, that should count as a loss, too if you then abandon. Same as if there is no reasonable way for the Killer to finish THEIR goal but Survivors decide not to leave, or if Survivors choose to come in as a group simply to harass the Killer into a four man slug or a DC and not do any generators. Everyone knows these types of players exist on both sides - let's not pretend they don't - a game in which you get no game at all or cannot meaningfully progress your goals is not a game and you should be able to forfeit.
It just so happens that Survivors have slightly less agency than Killer, and many more situations that for them, functionally should be a loss and thus confer the same loss of MMR they'd get if they died.-2 -
I think this is because officially BHVR does not want this game to be defined as one you can win or lose, but a horror sandbox where the Killer either kills you or you escape. In other words, they don't want official wincons, leading the community to make them up themselves based on what we do know: that no escape through gate or no kill means a loss of MMR.
But MMR gain/loss is a terrible way to judge success, true skill, or real game balance when it comes to a goal, which is why stuff like challenges and the like exist. BHVR seems to understand that newbies, who tend to lose more frequently until they understand how to play, need BP more which is why they shower us in it; then they turn around and use terms like "win, loss, draw" regarding MMR. What else is the community supposed to conclude but that our goal is to keep increasing MMR because that's what "winning" is?
This breeds a toxic atmosphere of trying to one-up the other side constantly especially for Killer side, and needless easily disproven phrases like "good Survivors" and "weak Killers" and stuff like that, which messes up the idea that in reality, all Killers are fine, you're not going to see good SWFs or Killers as often as you think you are, and skill at the game does in fact matter for everyone.
The truth is, DBD is a horror sandbox, one where everyone has decided they need to always have the coolest ball - and if they don't get to play their way with their ball, they call that a loss and take their cool ball and go home.
0 -
Thank you for all the different opinions and contributions. It's just important to me that we stay on topic and don't digress so far
1
