http://dbd.game/killswitch
Did devs remove more stuff for survivors than add in 2v8?
I feel like this game is really in favour of killers and I am not talking about gameplay. Survivors have no herbs, there's no window to save a teammate from a pallet stun, and fog crystal is pretty rare to find (on my matches). While killer roster increases, with new power combinations.
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stun window is really picky but it's still there and the laggy servers dont help
The herbs being gone sucks, especially with Legion and Oni
Fog Crystal is useless for the most part anyways coz of aura reading.
Anti-Camp is gone this iteration too
It's a flop.23 -
The devs really need to put in more efforts to freshen up the survivor experience. Almost every update we see some changes to killers, but almost never any changes to survivor items and how they could be improved.
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I agree. Anybody who plays this game even a little bit can easily see that the survivor side in 2v8 needs some changes to make it more appealing, yet somehow BHVR decided to make it even less appealing for survivors than previous iterations. It really is mind-boggling to see how badly they have bungled this.
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Survivors didn't need the herbs. That was just a 1-time deal where they could cheat out health states and even hook states super quick. Losing them meant they were lost to the killers as well, and I'm sure you're not missing those speed boosts they'd get from them.
I wish the pallet saves would be fixed, too. Instead, I've seen a survivor get stuck for a whole match when their teammate tried it.
And the crystals are cool but ultimately a time waste. You don't need to search chests in 2v8; it just slows your team down.
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That's a lie. Survivor gets at least a few buffs/changes every patch. Killers too, but they mostly get net nerfs or break even. Ghoul has been omega nerfed like 3 times, and he just came out. That new survivor's perks are all useful, except maybe the locker one (but still an Object-adjacent ability).
You'll get a fresher survivor experience soon enough with MORE anti-tunnel ,-slug, and -camp than is already present. And if it's still not good enough, just press Abandon so that you can never lose, and hope to find a more fun match quick. Or join a SWF, because they've never even been nerfed, and I don't see them getting touched in the foreseeable future.
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I was talking about survivor items and killer powers. Maybe I should have made this more clear. Killers get a lot more changes to their power and most of them are positive or much needed nerfs. On the other hand survivor items stay the same without any changes for years. The last change survivors got to their items were the sabo buffs and that was very long ago.
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Ya all know that I am a killer main first and survivor player second, and this is soooo true. everyone can see the appeal of playing Killer with a friend, but whats in there for the survivors? Just a couple more bloodpoints for being the victim? Ehhh..
BHVR really needs to give survivors some fun gameplay elements, that the normal gameplay doesn't offer. The classes are a good start, they are fun and interesting and have really OP capstone abilities, but that alone doesn`t cut it. I think 8v2 is a great place to try out new mechanics or ideas in a rather limited and safe environment, so they should just go nuts and give survivors fun and broken stuff to try out. 8v2 should really be the tongue-in-your-cheek party game mode and not to be taken too seriously, so lets break stuff and have fun.
Otherwise no one will wanna play survivor and killer queues stay at 20-30min. Just a small personal tragedy: yesterdays night I and a friend queued up as killer in 8v2 and after 20min we found a game - and she got hit with a disconnection error while moving over to the lobby, wasting out 20min waiting T_T I left, of course, and we queued up again. At the end of nearly an hour we had finished one game and couldn't stand the thought of queueing up again. What a bummer.
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I don't think that's their point though
Killers get their powers buffed/changed/reworked and so on which helps keep them fresh but the survivor role is pretty static.
Perks help and it's nice that they get a good amount of perk buffs but the actual gameplay of survivor is consistently the same. We are supposed to get a new item/a rework to maps and keys soon so maybe that'll help a bit but I def feel like with 2v8, ghoul and springtrap; Killer has the more interesting stuff going on at the moment
Side note - I still can't believe people are still comparing rapid response to object. The perk sucks, nobody uses it.
I've seen some surv youtubers making videos on it and even that hasn't got people using it.
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I think they were talking strictly about the 2v8 survivor experience which has only gained the fog crystals since last time. Improving the survivor experience helps both sides. More survivors means shorter queues for killers.
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And I apologize for going slightly off-topic. But the items are fine as is. It was shocking to hear people and the devs be like "Medkits are flashlights are the only useful items." Really? Toolboxes don't make the cut? Or Blood Amber keys? And I notice an awful lot of people complaining about the weakness of using boons, or the strength of hexes, when they never bring a map. The "new item" they announced is exciting, but it's not in the right spirit if it's in response to completely fine items being deemed "useless."
I know the toolboxes got a "nerf" years back, but I never saw it that way. Basically, they got less durability, but more gen progress per charge. So to me it wasn't a nerf, but a trade-off. You're getting the same progress boost, condensed into a smaller amount of time, which is arguably better.
Flashlights can't blind from lockers anymore, because that was literally uncounterable, even though they can still blind off of other grabs which is equally uncounterable. They "more flashlight angles for more fov transaction" was definitely unfair for killer, as you constantly get blinded from off-screen. Flashbangs are useful, and are oftentimes silent (supposedly not intended), so they can blind a killer out of nowhere because they were dropped around a corner. I guess people complained because you can't blind killers through their bodies or through walls anymore?
Medkits were legit nerfed, but you can understand why. This was before the devs nerfed Sloppy and other Mangled/Hemorrhage stuff, when they were okay with the hit and run playstyle (because it was the opposite tunneling, therefore objectively healthy). Survivors with a green medkit could heal themselves in like 8-10 seconds, and other medkits healed fellow survivors equally fast, making killer's hits basically meaningless unless they actually committed to the down. Same reason CoH was nerfed.
Maps have never really been touched. I wouldn't mind them getting a buff, but in what way? I don't know.
Keys are probably the weakest item currently, but I think they're still fine. They can free up a perk slot for Bond or Object, and you can get that affect with the keys' add-ons. I heard they're thinking of making stuff like Blood Amber stronger, saying "It's way too weak." I can't imagine how much stronger you'd make that. And keys were overpowered in the old days. The fact the killer could perfectly juggle the gates against 4 survivors, and they just all jump through a hatch anyway, or survivors do 3 gens and 2 can just get through. That wasn't healthy. That was a massive shortcut on their intended objective. Hatch as it exists is annoying, but that's another issue.
So if those are the nerfs/state of items that survivors are referring to, I know what they're talking about. I just don't think it's as bad as they say it is, for the reasons I've just explained.
You know, killer add-ons are basically the equivalent of survivor item/add-ons, and they've got nothing but nerfs these past few years. Didn't matter their rarity or effect; we've seen browns and yellows nerfed. And the reworks killer has had have been mostly trash. We could have had a wide variety of interesting add-ons, especially for Nurse and Blight, with 5-blink (technically) Nurse, or Adrenaline Vial, Summoning Stone, or Soul Chemical Blight. But no, now we're back to basic Fatigue Reduction/Lunge Duration Nurse, and double speed add-on Blight. Wow. So fun and interesting to play as/go against. Well done, devs.
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This is the worst rendition of 2v8 yet and I hope it's a long time before this mode returns to wreck queue times again.
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Let me start by saying survivor items aren‘t fine or in a good spot.
Medkits are basically all the same and the versions barely have a diffrence to a point they could just keep the grey medkit and remove the rest. Medkits were overnerfed and there should be more meaningful differences like faster self heal speed, more charges and faster altruistic healing speed between them.
Circle of healing (only because you mentioned it) could have kept self healing if it was much slower. There was no reason to remove the self care part when they would have nerfed it to self care speed as well.
The weaker toolboxes need some buffs, so they have a reason to exist and aren‘t just a weaker version of the other ones. But that thinking is probably against behaviors philosophy.
So you are actually fine with windows of opportunity on maps ? That‘s what the devs said they will do.
Keys need a purpose without addons (instant chest opening and some other effect, maybe losing collision when charging them). One addon could make them hide your scratch marks, pools of blood and grunts of pain when charging them. You should have to hold the power button for a shorter period of time to get the effects faster. The killer aura reading addon could get the debuffs reduced and a range increased.
My only problem with flashlights is that blinding the killer is nearly impossible when they aren‘t stuck in an animation. That‘s why I would increase the blinding speed when the killer is moving.
Firecrackers should get an addon that increased their charges and be available in chests and the bloodweb.
Most addons from items suck. Too many of them are either variants of others or too weak/meaningless.
There quite a few killer addons that got improved, but you are right that a lot of them got nerfed. Some justified some not. On the other hand some addons got nerfed to make them semi basekit for killers, which is a win for these killers. Your examples of killer addons are not the best. Nurse and blight are very strong and probably don‘t need to equip addons at all. Their addons aren‘t good for a reason, but they should at least be interesting.
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The difference between medkit rarities is their heal speed. It's not much of a difference, between 25% boost to 35% boost and the like, but it does make a difference. It's why when I bring an instaheal with a throwaway medkit (because it's gonna get used up anyway), I'll bring a green (formerly yellow) instead of a brown, just in case I get the chance to heal a teammate before using it. I do it that way to use up expendable low rarity medkits and save my higher rarity for legit healing builds with good add-ons. If you're planning on healing others, bring higher rarity medkits. If you want it to heal yourself, bring a lower rarity. I think that's what the devs have gone for.
One thing I will say is I didn't like the efficiency negative on Botany Knowledge when healing with a medkit. That was way out of left field, and with that new healing perks and the others, you can easily revert that change. Because Botany's clearly a meta defining perk, right? The change was stupid.
I'm fine with that add-on concept, but I don't know why people would run it over Windows itself. I have no idea what the general killer fuss is about with Windows. It doesn't make noob survivors into master loopers suddenly; they'll be trash anyway. It just lets the survivors who are already good at looping plan their route, and see which pallets have been used already. I have not once complained about my survivor opponents running it.
Those key add-on ideas sound fine and interesting. I just don't want the age of hatch to come back where you don't even have to do your objective fully to escape, and the killer getting punished for killing survivors.
Agree to disagree on the blinding while running. You have your chance to save/blind when the killer is in an animation or finishing up one. It's then or never.
That would be fine for firecrackers, but shouldn't apply to flashbangs, at least so long as they're silent when they're not supposed to be.
I don't like even having the option to put 2 duration add-ons on maps/keys, because that literally does nothing, and is there just to hurt new players.
In a lot of cases where killer add-ons got made base, they still left the add-on there, and so killers still use it. That tells me that those killers still need those add-ons. Like Doctor got a small range increase at some point, and yet he still has to use the range add-on, or Singularity with his Haste during Overclock where he still has to use the Haste increase add-on. That's basically not making the add-on base. You've made a lighter version of it base, while still needing the leftover add-on to compete with the killer.
And yeah, Nurse and Blight weren't the best, but people complain about how fast they are while they cheered on the destruction of their more interesting add-ons.
Clown is another one, with his instadown add-on. Basically Huntress instadown hatchet... with like 3 more steps. You had to directly hit survivors with the bottle, as it's the hardest projectile in the game to aim because of its awkward arc, and when the survivor outlasts the gas, you'd have to hit them again, and they could spin and be tricky to dodge it, basically to where chasing them normally (without the instadown) would be just as optimal. That add-on got nerfed twice, first reducing the bottle count by 2, then limiting it to just 1. So useful. Then they nerfed his next best add-on Flask Of Bleach, because I guess they didn't like the speed differential, but then release stuff like Dark Theory and Made For This.
Or look at Wraith's "do everything faster" add-on, with the vaults and pallet breaks. It used to apply to locker opening as well. Somebody explain why that part needed to go. Please. Because I can't fathom it.
And then there's Engineer's Fang with Pinhead. It basically makes him a worse Legion, because he doesn't get the deep wound at base, but they thought it'd be fair if its downside (which it previously didn't have one) would be "You can injure survivors with Possessed Chain (which is quite hard to land consistently), but then you only get 2 chains." Hmm, so a pink add-on making a killer little better than an M1 (because he can't even use his anti-loop at that point), is what we're deciding as the standard of balance.
Like, they don't realize that these are green, purple, and pink add-ons. Aren't they supposed to be strong, because of their rarity? BNP and instaheals are still a thing, just saying. And y'all say that survivor has become dumbed down or stale. Yes, partly because these various killer strategies have been taken away or made trivially simple, which takes away the survivors' skillful counterplay against them as well.
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I agree with most of what you said. My intention behind the flashlight change wasn‘t to makes safes easier rather that they can be used outside of the killer being locked in animations.
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First off, the Devs are not siding with any one side. They are not Killer OR Survivor sided. 2v8 is just like this, adding new Killers and KWF will always be the bigger draw, this mode is Survivor-sided but it's FOR people who want to play Killer with a friend.
Second, I agree that there should be some more stuff for Survs to do in the mode. But this is perennial with DBD as a whole. I for one like that they switched up the mechanics and did the Herbs one iteration but Fog Bombs the next, that's genuinely cool!
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Playing killer, it was annoying having survivors remove a hook state. HOWEVER, it was fun trying to find them first. I think it needed to be balanced more. I think removing a hook state is not balanced with both killers moving a little faster for a short amount of time. They should make herbs with some small tweaks (for killer) something permanent in 2v8 - and if they can't because it was a RE license thing, then just make them totems that glow yellow or green but act the same with the same interaction animation.
When my friends have me play 2v8 survivor with them, I have an awful time. I had more fun as survivor last time. I would assume you make it more fun for survivor, killer wait times will go down too. I think this might be the longest killer wait times with this version.
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The problem is the mode is generally heavily tilted towards survivor as is, balancing it would be even more difficult if we gonna give em "fun" things on top of basekit tools
maybe we should nerf every basekit features even more while buffing special powers even more? at least it'd freshen the mode
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I actually like the idea of totems having a use in 2v8 by doing this. Just remove the "take a hook stage away" option and instead have it be Haste Boost or an activatable Quiet Mode or something.
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I actually completely forgot about the herbs. Why were they removed exactly?
Hey at least the fog crystals are super fun to use, just wish I can find them more easily.
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My biggest issue with how Survivor in 2v8 has been handled is that BHVR thinks it is a good idea to give them one-off gimmicks that hardly matter while giving Killer more permanent additions. Since Survivors are just skins, there is no uniqueness to playing Survivor, especially when no new classes have been added since the release of the gamemode.
Want to fix queue times? Give players a reason to play Survivor. Role Incentives can only do so much, and the fact that we not only have low incentives compared to before, but the Fog Crystals, while fun, have very little grounds to stand on compared to what Ghostface and Oni bring.
We have TONS of other playstyles that people enjoy but we only have classes that cover the basics, and instead of catering to the various utility or chase styles that people love, or catering to mechanics like items/chests, we instead just get a gimmick that will be removed and never seen again.
And there are people who wonder why queue times are awful. :/
Post edited by Iron_Cutlass on2 -
BHVR only care about one side having a fun time while playing their game and it's not the survivors lol
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