http://dbd.game/killswitch
Go Next prevention question.
So looking at the ptb patch notes im very confused about this "go next prevention"
on the one hand you can no longer 4% and you no longer die if missing 2 skill checks during struggle. Ok thats fine. one would argue just remove the skill checks but is what it is.
So given that survivors can basicly no longer give up on hook and just have to hang there waiting to be rescued what possible method is going to be used to determine if someone is giving up.
For example if a survivor is unhooked and they instantly run to the killer and get downed and re-hooked is that giving up.
But this would look the same as a survivor being unhooked and a killer tunnelling them. It may be a little longer but nothing significant so surely there is no way to determine if its a tunnel or a give up.
Similarly if a survivor is unhooked and just sits on a gen till the killer grabs them and gets re-hooked that could be seen as giving up but then again the survivor is doing a gen progressing the game.
The entire thing although in essence seems like a good idea has no actual information on how its going to work.
I did miss the anniversary stream so if this was talked about if someone can nutshell it that would be great as with this new system i feel that it will make the go next even worse as you can just find the killer and either jump in a locker to be grabbed or sit on a gen to be grabbed and in theory the system shouldn't be able to detect that you intentionally gave up.
Comments
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Its was a really bad idea to remove the 4%. This was the only horror-like mechanic that tells you "there is still hope". Also you basically cant sacrifice yourself anymore to help the last survivor getting the hatch. And this will basically just lead to a stealth game that just prolong the game for no reason. As always they didnt thought this through at all.
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I'm really hoping they release what clasifies as "go next". The worry i have is like i said in my original post you can't really tell the difference between a hardcore tunnel and someone running to the killer to go next. If quickly dying causes the go next prevention to kick in causing a disconnect penalty it means that is killers wanted to they could hard core tunnel not only to get the survivor out of the game but also to effectively soft ban them from the game for a while.
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I know we call patches sided even when they're not, but… Jeez. They really gave Survs the short end this time didn't they?
I get it, it had to be done to stop Go-Nexting. It was that bad. But Lord Almighty this is harsh.
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While they did say you could still ######### on hook faster in such a scenario, they didn't specify as to how: Are you able to miss skillchecks after a certain period of time to get auto-sacrificed?
My guess is that it's going to be checking missing skill checks, the anti-camp meter, statistic accumulation between Unhook and 2nd Hook, Trial duration, and Frequency of occurrence across multiple matches. But we'll see.
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From what I gather from the dev responses on other social platforms, the go next prevention system is active in the early game, but not when the game has progressed past a certain point or past a certain threshold? Someone more plugged-in than I might check that or know more, but going off that one would assume there might be some sort of an internal timer involved? I think it's a good question to ask how the system would distinguish between someone actively giving up rand running to the killer vs. just a really quick tunnel out. If there isn't a good way to distinguish between those cases then I can see the system being used maliciously. We won't know until it arrives or they give us more information about it sadly. It's very ambitious to say the least.
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MFW I get banned because Blight tunneled me out
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Omg imagine, lol. That'd certainly be an experience.
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Yeah this update is the biggest L behavior has taken. Like the bulk spending is nice and so its the chapter but everything else is not so great
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what's bad about it? And what actually gives survs the short end here?
So many absolutely winnable soloQ matches get literally obliterated by people who give up prematurely, this is literally a huge QoL improvement for soloQ
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It definitely is, but it seems like a ton of hard stops here, I mean they go down a Grade, gain DC points that have to be per round fixed, AND they also can't suicide anymore?
Wouldn't just preventing the on hook go next mostly fix this? It feels a little overkill. I agree it was all necessary but still… a bit overkill.2 -
ye but you could see how motivated people were to give up when there was 0 punishment for it, i think BHVR wants to discourage it to the max
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Discourage people from playing the game if it frustrates them to the point of giving up, but also discourage people from taking a break in order for their penalty points to decay. Make that make sense.
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in that case people should just take a break for a longer time instead of DCing from matches. Literally case with every other game, especially League of Legends where you literally have the same penalty for abandoning matches as here, not only in ranked but also in normal matches and fun gamemodes
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And what will taking an even longer break accomplish when you'll still be stuck with the penalty point when you return? The first DC or so is meant to be forgiven in cases like game crashes or hackers, but this is too harsh, particularly for casual players who don't play often to begin with.
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Even worse, you won't just get a DC penalty, you'll LOSE AN ENTIRE GRADE as punishment.
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My issue with them checking missed skill checks is if the missed skill checks arn't going to end you on hook anymore whats the incentive to hit them. I would just tab out watch YouTube on my other monitor while waiting for the rescue at this point.
I may only have this opinion because i am a very casual player but does anyone actually care about losing a grade? Grades arn't visible to others, Unless your getting irry grade then the BP you get doesn't really matter as you could just play a handfull of games (or even the weekly gift) to get the same amount of BP.
Lets face it. Anyone who is actively going next a lot isn't getting a high grade and anyone who does get max grade every month isn't sitting their going next a ton.-8 -
even worse? Even better lol
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People only care about Grades because Grades = bloodpoints at the end of the month. Losing a Grade is like having your pay docked.
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Tbf we come from the era of depipping, so we can take it. Not too bad since you can always just play more to get your grade back, which still nets you more BP along the way.
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Whatever happens behaviour needs to give the conditions of what classes as go next or these is gonna cause more issues than it fixes
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I would think, as far as the tunneling argument goes, that they would probably be looking for multiple games where you are unhooked and immediately downed. I'm not saying a person can't be unlucky enough to get tunneled out first, multiple games in a row, but it also may be an indicator that someone is running straight back to the killer.
However, there then comes the issue of what is someone just likes going for protection hits or something with otr or is trying to get value out of DS? This could happen every game if it's how that person likes to play.
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That depends entirely on what they consider "going next" I think. Will it be able to tell you are actively trying to get out of the match fast vs just bad luck in quickly running into the killer and being tunneled? Plus, before they got rid of deipping, you could lose all pips, but you couldn't lose a grade.
Plus, then there is the whole accessibility issue of it. Some players are, for whatever reason, unable to play against certain killers. It's not that they don't like them, its that they literally cannot play against that killer.2 -
If the game can tell the difference between someone giving up and someone being tunneled then there is no excuse for it to tell when someone has speed hacks (movement and gens). Like why doesn't it just stop the game as soon as it notices that a gen was finished in 2 seconds or a killer/survivor is moving way too fast or teleporting. Something like this would help stop hackers because as soon as they try to use their hacks and "have fun" - the game would shut down.
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Why are you even playing if you're just concerned that you won't be able to rage quit games frequently?
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Hm. I'm also wondering about this change. Also because they don't mention Deliverance or situations where everyone is downed. I guess in the latter case, you would eventually have the ability to DC, but I don't want to DC — I want to try to unhook myself and see if I can get people back up again.
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Why are you even assuming that I ragequit games frequently? This is a valid concern for all players, because random stuff happens to anyone at anytime.
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I’m sure they’re going to further explain the mechanic soon. They have already admitted that the abandon feature needs work (they did this in the live stream) and that they definitely haven’t given up on it. They “want to get it right” and the only way to do that is trial and error, and through feedback.
So while I absolutely share your concern, also try to remain cautiously optimistic. Your feedback is part of that loop that the devs are looking for. And no matter what changes are made to the system, it’s not as if we will just be “stuck” with it if it’s awful. It’s good to remember that it is not the end all be all while also voicing any valid concerns, questions, or suggestions you have about this or any upcoming change.
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You can, right now, DC once per day and get a 1 minute penalty each time. With screen transitioning alone, thats effectively a 30 second wait before you can join a match again. If you go down first, odds are you're gonna be tunnelled out, so you wont pip anyway, hence why people go next in the first place. Why stick around if you're not gonna get a pip and only 3k more BP unless you're already at max?
Its personally why I want survivor bloodpoints to both have a shared pool and a personal pool. 5k in each catagory shared among the team and 5k personal. That would at least be a reason for survivors to stay regardless if they get tunnelled or not. Even if you only get 5k chase points alone and 2k survival points, you might still get 5k shared objective and 5k shared survival points if your team progresses. Leaving you with 17k BP while you got tunnelled. Right now, being tunnelled means maybe 3.5k BP. The main reason behind people going next is because they are aware on how little there is left to gain.
I'm okay with the grade reduction (assuming it doesnt ever happen when tunnelled out), but having AND a dc penalty that doesnt go away untill you play X amount of games, AND a grade reduction, AND remove the option to suicide on hook entirely is just overkill.
Just the last one would prevent survivors going next so much that the rest doesnt matter, the only reason I could see the grade removal is to prevent killers from staying afk all game as a means to "go next".-3 -
As long as the game has accessibility issues I will never be okay with Grade Loss.
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Other than skillchecks getting maybe a visual cue, and maybe a generator with progression, I dont think there really are any notable issues left that wont break the balance entirely if implemented. Because if you visualize grunts of pain, someone who might not have been listening will know someone grunted nearby. If you visualize footsteps, same issue.
And the only thing that would warrant a "go next" in accessibility would be killers with sound0 -
Doctor especially causes issues in so many ways. Photo sensitivity being the worst, but issues like sensory overload for others (myself included.) I understand if you do not experience these issues with The Doctor, lucky you. But please stop dismissing those of us who do as if we just "don''t like playing against him."
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They did pretty much minimize that as much as possible, Lery's main gen has more issues than that.
And while on one hand, sure, understandable. On the otherhand, its a horror game. Horror simply has a lot of sensory things. There are jumpscares, there are a lot of sounds. Having to make horror accessible by allowing tweaks in sound, when a massive part of the game balance relies on certain sounds being harder to hear due to other sounds (which kinda means people with sensory overload cannot be addressed there without also basically reworking the game balance from scratch). Its just not feasible.
It's like going to a bbq and being mad that you can smell meat on the grill and suggesting maybe to not grill any meat. You simply want an entirely different kind of bbq at that point.Again, it definitely is a thing that prevents enjoyment, and I am not saying you shouldnt play the game because of it. However, there are certain aspects that, if customizable, would basically give a massive advantage. I still am not standing behind the decision for the FOV slider, because games against mobility killers have gotten significantly more difficult since then. Being able to tweak sounds means I might aswell quit the game, because any stealth killer I play is negated by people tweaking the killer footsteps to 1000% and any time I want to do a clever corner play as survivor it doesnt matter because the killer tweaked my breathing and footsteps to 1000% while having lowered the chase music to 10%.
I am against the grade drop, as its far too strict (start with a single pip instead, then keep doubling it), but not because of a lack of accessibility.
Besides, dc'ing doesnt have the same applied effect as going next, just DC against the killer, dont go next.-2 -
“cant sacrifice yourself anymore to help the last survivor getting the hatch”
Yes you will be able to.
Post edited by MechWarrior3 on-2 -
In one of the latest patches, Doctor's photo sensitivity issues have returned, worse than before. But hey, what do I know, I'm not photosensitive myself.
As for sensory overload, its not just jump scares and stuff like that or the smell of meat at a BBQ. The fact that you even make such a silly comparison to a BBQ shows that you do not have sensory overload issues and refuse to even try to understand them (and I hope you don't know anyone that does, if you do, I feel sorry for them having to be invalidated by you), so there is no point in even trying to explain it.-2 -
As someone who DOES have sensory overload issues(im more of a "I see mouths move but dont hear anyone speak because there is too much different types of background noise and I will go to the bathroom for a minute just to be able to reset somewhat and hear my friends again", or the "I am actively using a threadmill when working at home so I stop being distracted by the people who walk across the street as I become incapable of processing the information I need to process to do my work"), the bbq explanation was not even about overload, it was about expectations. If you are appalled by the smell of cooked meat or have issues with it to the point of (extreme) discomfort, then why did you even go to the bbq?
Horror games are designed with sudden imagery appearing, sudden loud noises, sudden change from gloomy to brightness. And DBD is one of those games, especially in the sound department(hence why I emphasised on that), where game balance is dictated by it enough that you cannot simply alter sounds manually.
And yeah, if you can normally handle the game and suddenly there is a patch that makes it impossible to handle, complain about it, get the killer killswitched for the duration (despite doc being my main, I wouldnt mind him being killswitched for a week or 2 while they address visual issues surrounding his shocks).-2 -
They said missing skill checks to get sacrificed faster is being removed. Presumably, that means missing a skill check will penalize you the same that failing a skill checks does.
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This is just gonna lead to a huge reduction in players. I’ve said it from the beginning and just wait. I hope everyone enjoys the insanely long wait times for lobbies. Because the only thing that this is going to lead to is, everyone is going to “go next” as in play another game. But hey., QOL right? What a joke.
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Actually survivors are already reporting being flagged by the system when the killer was tunneling. I was afraid this would happen, but I was told stuff like "You don't know that, let's wait and see." While I usually love being proven right, this was not a time I wanted to be proven right.
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Okay, apologies so you have a type of sensory overload but not the same as me. As for complaining and getting Doctor killswitched, they aren't even killswitching him when people are reporting his seizure inducement has returned, you think they care about sensory overload? Second, the BBQ analogy is still terrible. A better analogy would be going to a BBQ and objecting to the presence of peanut sauce being used as a marinade when you have a nut allergy. Even then that's a stretch.
Put it this way… Because I can't watch movies like The Blair Witch due to the shaky camera method, does that mean I can't watch any horror movies? No. But if Blair Witch comes on, I will leave the room and/or change the channel. The draconian punishment of the Go Next system would be akin to you revoking my access to Nightmare on Elm Street, all the Chucky movies, and The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and making me repurchase them because I refused to watch Blair Witch.0
