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Why is (almost) every new killer just chase ability + teleport

Pukenplag
Pukenplag Member Posts: 1,467

I actually haven't played actively in around 2-3 years, just every now and then, because I just haven't found anything exciting about recent updates.

It seems like half the new killers are the same formula: m2 for a chase dash/projectile, space/lctrl for a teleport to whatever they used as a portal for the said killer. The other half is still chase power or mobility, but IG like with Kaneki, sometimes innovative.

But I'm really disappointed with what they did with FNAF. I was just as disappointed with Sadako, because I really hoped they would go a very different route, with a power that's really unique and brings new mechanics (like with Myers in a sort of sense, a simple power but one that has the most fun variety of addons that makes it in turn so interesting and fun to verse and play as). But an axe throw? Is that really that innovative? It just screams "we had to add some chase power so we went with a projectile throw, for the 637th time".

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Comments

  • Pukenplag
    Pukenplag Member Posts: 1,467

    Omg GeneralV, happy to see you too! Doing great!

    You reminded me how interesting killer powers were back in 2016-2017. There was never a matter of them being "meta", they just had very interesting unique designs. Killers like doctor (who nowadays would've been made to instead of madness just injure by building up electricity or something like that, plus a teleport to hallucinatios) or old Freddy, who despite being bad, was still incredibly unique.

    That's part of my point. Do new killers NEED to be viable to be fun? Myers is bottom tier yet he is one of the most fun killers because of how many play styles he gets; if you get past the competitive aspect, he has a very fun power. Doctor has no mobility, but a power that is very interesting and oppressive, to the point he is viable without a teleport.

    What I'm saying is, they could go a route with a killer where they're completely unique, not necessarily viable, but instead bring a breath of fresh air.

  • ObsidianButterfly
    ObsidianButterfly Member Posts: 210

    Take a look at the fate of Skull Merchant if you want an answer to that. She was unfairly persecuted for doing something unique and different and requiring more than a single brain cell to deal with, and now is the absolute worst killer in the game.

    We aren't allowed to have nice things anymore. Just dashes and projectiles. BHVR is basically telling people that if you don't like those particular play styles, you should just quit.

  • GeneralV
    GeneralV Member Posts: 12,666

    Glad to see you're doing great, my friend!

    And well said on the designs. Ya know, because of the FNAF PTB today I was thinking about the killer roster I saw when I first played DBD, which was December of 2018: all killers were unique. No one had a recycled power. And, better yet, all of them except Legion had fun designs.

    Killer design was just better in the past.

    or old Freddy, who despite being bad, was still incredibly unique.

    Wish this favorite killer of mine had returned, friend. I would have so much to talk about, so much to share. Almost 6 years since the rework, but he'll always remain my favorite.

  • RaSavage42
    RaSavage42 Member Posts: 5,731

    It's at least Map dependent… but that's not the least of the issues

    It's progression V regression

    It's the fact that this game is 4V1 and the Devs are "catering" to the majority of the playerbase… while trying to keep the minority pleased

  • Cetren
    Cetren Member Posts: 1,068

    Yes, a killer needs to be viable to be fun for many of the people playing the game. I think a big chunk of this has to do with DBD's lean towards a competitive nature as well as people being really sore winners in this game. Saying its fun "if you get past the competitive aspect" is ignoring the whole reason why many people do not like playing non viable killers.

    Also Doctor is not one who I would cite as having a fun power. I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone load in excited to face a doctor, and I always dreaded matching up with him because he is especially oppressive against newer players, which makes it really hard to encourage your friends when they're new to the game, while at the same time being somewhat toothless against a competent team. You cite Myers as being fun but I don't think he's representative. There are tons of other unique killers they've added that people hate going against. Pinhead, twins, hag, trapper, skull merchant, knight. Playstyles that cut against the grain of an engaging chase based match just aren't as well received. They're frustrating, and some have been perceived as downright cheap or unfair from people playing against them (such as SM and Knight).

    I don't mind if they keep adding killers with a relatively similar formula because it works. Most of these killers are fun to play as and against. And the pick rates and complaints that people do (or do not) make against the killers is sufficient reason to believe that continuing on that path is the right choice imo.

  • GeneralV
    GeneralV Member Posts: 12,666

    Also Doctor is not one who I would cite as having a fun power. I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone load in excited to face a doctor, and I always dreaded matching up with him because he is especially oppressive against newer players, which makes it really hard to encourage your friends when they're new to the game, while at the same time being somewhat toothless against a competent team.

    To be honest, friend, I really liked playing against the original Doctor.

    I think he was fun, greatly contributed to the horror atmosphere (who remembers his face appearing in the middle of the screen), and I really liked getting the hang of playing against his two different modes.

    I think the Old Doctor, with things such as shock / mode switching timing and madness build-up had a lot of depth to him.

    But sadly, that isn't the case anymore.

  • joeyspeehole
    joeyspeehole Member Posts: 292

    I don't want to speak for original poster, but it seems they are suggesting that, rather than focusing on creating unique and innovative types of killers, the developers are prioritizing what killer players prefer in streamlining an easy kill/hook experience. This is achieved through ranged killers with rapid map-transversing abilities, which seem to cater to player preferences. Unfortunately, such killers is only part of the issue; the developers then proceed to weaken useful perks that could counter these killers' abilities upon release.

    It would be beneficial if the developers more effort to innovating and creating unique killers and survivors that could not only expand the game's community but also enhance the variety of experiences and encounters in each match.

  • MaTtRoSiTy
    MaTtRoSiTy Member Posts: 2,643

    In part, simply because they are out of ideas as in many ways they have already done everything good. So to keep selling new DLC they have to come up with variations on what has already been done but the trouble is in reality they often end up very unfun to play against.

    Pretty much every killer I loathe versing is from the last couple of years.

    I miss the early days of mostly M1 killers, I really hate killers like Knight or Twins etc that all but eliminate the fun part for most of us long term players - looping

  • NarkoTri1er
    NarkoTri1er Member Posts: 1,366

    i don't have anything against chase related killers because with current balance it's impossible to keep up with the game if killer just has micro or macro and not both, but you are completely right about BHVR running out of ideas, basically every newer licenced killer they released was a symbiote of some already existing ones and i'm absolutely saddened they couldn't at least let some of the players actually make concept for Springtrap power to truly make him unique with how big licence he is part of and how hyped the chapter was.

  • MaTtRoSiTy
    MaTtRoSiTy Member Posts: 2,643

    OG Freddy was really unique in retrospect, I would prefer a variation on that over the modern one, that is for sure

  • Wiccamanplays
    Wiccamanplays Member Posts: 211

    Using Myers as an example of a good or interesting Killer design is seriously questionable. He's appallingly weak when he's not using his strongest addon, at which point he's still weak on most maps against competent Survivors but wrecks newbie teams who don't know how to deal with him yet. And his power is literally just looking at Survivors.

    I'd much rather have a killer like Springtrap, who does have some wacky addons but whose fundamentals are powerful and interactive for both sides, than more dash slop or a F-tier byzantine mess like Onryo.

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 5,056
    edited June 1
    Post edited by radiantHero23 on
  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 5,056

    Disagree. Then again, it solely depends on how you play her.

    Imo, thes in the middle of c tier right next to Piggy.

    She easily jumps to a-tier if played by the right person on Gideon meat plant.

  • UndeddJester
    UndeddJester Member Posts: 4,971
    edited May 28

    It is an eternal frustration to be someone who loves trap killers... I go in waves and whims with other killers, but the killers I most consistently return to are Pig, Trapper, Skull Merchant, Hag and a bit of Myers...

    In all 5 cases I try to play in more crafty and clever ways instead of unga bunga cheese such as crouch follow Scream Pig, Basement Trapper, Hook camp Hag, Poop drone at tile/hard 3 gen Skull Merchant, or Tombstone Piece Myers... and I generally avoid slugging and tunneling unless absolutely necessary...

    ...All while having to play while being shot in the knee caps (especially on Skully and Trapper)... and I've been smashed a fair number of times... and there are a subset of people that still hate you anyway 🥺🥺🥺🥺

    That being said, it's always nice when you get the odd message from someone who genuinely wants to wish you a GG for being sporting. Makes the teabags worth it 😊

  • ObsidianButterfly
    ObsidianButterfly Member Posts: 210

    The only thing keeping her out of F-tier is her ability to teleport. Her chase is bad, her stealth is bad (and still bugged), her macro is bad, her Condemn is such a joke that even survivors meme on it.

    Just because she's better on a couple of maps doesn't make her above D-tier. That's like saying Blight and Billy aren't S-tier because a couple of maps don't really favor them.

  • GlamourousLeviathan
    GlamourousLeviathan Member Posts: 1,291

    I think the problem is the fact that this is an 1v4 game and the killer's choice will always centralize the game around it. Think about Overwatch for example, you may hate playing against Zarya, but she will not be your only opponent so although your fun is diminished by playing against her, she will not be your only priority. On DbD it is not the case, if the killer picks Deathslinger and you hate facing the character, you're going to have to deal with him alone for the next 12 minutes or so. You kinda sign up to this Russian roulette whenever you decide to play survivor.

    Imo, survivor experience gets richer whenever you have to face completely different killers from one game to another. In one game you may have to deal with Sadako's tapes, in the other you have to follow Hag and disarm her traps, in the third you may have to deploy turrets to hinder Xenomorph, and on the fourth you may have dodge Wesker's dashes. Of course, some people might just want to dodge hatchets every single game, but I particularly don't find that an engaging experience...

  • TicTac
    TicTac Member Posts: 2,682

    Well, thats not quite true. The problem was that survivor hated her, so they didnt give the rework a chance. Its really hard to change that, but maybe the next alteration + the go-next-prevention will fix it.

    But aside form that one problem with complex killer powers is that the game has an abysmal amount of guides. Casual players will not look up an video on youtube to counter one specific killer.

  • TicTac
    TicTac Member Posts: 2,682

    Its a fine line. On the one hand you have killer which just down you and one the other hand you have killer you can loop for two minutes if you play it safe. Then theres obviously maps, perks, addons and player skill.

    Its fun to loop an ok nurse, but throw aura perks or a strong nurse in the mix, and it can get annoying.

    A fun killer should force 50/50 and constant good plays to stay alive, but that can feel awful if you lose two in a row or your team doesnt use the time for gens.

    But the worst killers for me are the ones, where you just want to prerun, bc nothing else helps.

  • adam1233467
    adam1233467 Member Posts: 1,396

    Because it's better that they release a killer with a ability than a tier C killer who only has stealfh in his kit, every killer nowadays needs an anti-loop and some kind of mobility, if he doesn't have any of that he's automatically bad.

    sorry, but it's not cool when the new killer is only m1 and doesn't do anything else, I understand that it's always the same thing, teleport, anti loop, etc, but the killer to be good he needs that, unfortunately that's how it works.

  • Pukenplag
    Pukenplag Member Posts: 1,467

    My whole point was specifically that despite him being weak, he is still fun. With something as simple as staring at survivors, they built some of the most interesting addons and playstyles.

    The issue again is that Springtrap with this power already exists. It's just a slightly different xenomorph or demogorgon, depending on how you look at it.

    And my point is that I don't understand why the killer NEEDS to be good. Why can't we have fun, innovative designs, that can fit their own niche? We just have the same killer added to the game every 3 months, with simply a different default skin. By that point, stop adding them in the first place if they're another charcter with different looks.

    But truth is, they haven't even exhausted the plain designs yet. Why not have a killer that just shoots out a projectile that they teleport to once it lands, granting a burst of speed thereafter. It's simple, and only thing that comes close is Nurse.

  • hermitkermit
    hermitkermit Member Posts: 981

    The easier something is, the more popular it will be. Thats why you have someone like Nurse, who, despite being the most powerful thing in the entire game and has been consistently since the beginning of it, does not have a super high pick rate. She’s too complicated for many players to learn to use despite how powerful she is. Compare her to Blight, who is also extremely powerful but slightly easier to use and learn, who’s pick rate is higher.

    No matter where a killer or a perk (for either role) sits on someone personal tier list, if someone is devoted enough they can still (usually) be successful with it. But it requires more effort. Most players don’t really want to do that. Which is fair enough cause this is a game, and for many it’s a casual game. It shouldn’t have to be studied like a language in order to be understood.

    A teleport takes away that need to try and manage your macro. Anti-loop takes away that need to try and be successful in mind-gaming loops. Both Teleport, and Anti-loop make the game much easier, so players like and some all but demand that it is required. This goes for some survivor perks too, of course. Something like Adrenaline, or lithe for example, where it adds a layer of security so you can play a bit more recklessly. (There are more of course. Same with killer perks)

    Personally I like a good mix of both. If everything is always the same every game then it’s gonna get stale really quick Because DBD relies on that variety to maintain interest. So hopefully in the future we will get another trap or stealth or a brand new mechanic for a killer that helps with variety that players still find fun.

  • francesinhalover
    francesinhalover Member Posts: 376

    With duo iri and bamb myers is the strongest killer in the game

  • Mikeyboi1225
    Mikeyboi1225 Member Posts: 27

    In the last two years, three of the nine killers introduced had a chase and teleport ability.

  • Pukenplag
    Pukenplag Member Posts: 1,467

    While I will first have to say THREE such killers in 2 years (on top of the existing ones) is A LOT, let's analyse the killers and see how unique they were

    • Singularity - chase and teleport, but a unique take
    • Xenomorph - Demogorgon with a different counter mechanic, chase power is literally a copy of Nemesis/PH
    • Chucky - Pig but small
    • Unknown - another projectile damage killer, with a teleport, so he falls in the chase+teleport category, but not completely a copy of another killer
    • Vecna - weird one because technically chase + semi teleport, but a very unique kit overall so no complaints here at all
    • Dracula - PH/Nemesis/Xenomorph (wow, they're getting many) + Demogorgon/Chucky + a more unique ability
    • Houndmaster - budget Deathslinger
    • Kaneki - unique
    • Springtrap - Huntress/Xeno/The other 10 killers with either a projectile or short ranged hit ability + Demogorgon/Dredge/Xenomorph/Sadako/Any other teleport

    6/9 killer either copy of others or not unique

  • GeneralV
    GeneralV Member Posts: 12,666

    You would have liked him, I'm sure!

    I know I did. Never really understood why they reworked him, the original concept could have been buffed without massive changes.

    Well said as always, my friend!

    Love ya <3

  • squbax
    squbax Member Posts: 1,748

    You seriously used myers as an example of a power? His power is literally just haunted grounds with extra steps. I am glad they did not butcher this killer and turn him into myers.

  • Crowman
    Crowman Member Posts: 10,095

    And BHVR is trying to rework Skull Merchant into having dashing drones that do damage.

  • Fluffylynxie
    Fluffylynxie Member Posts: 12

    Its the survivor player base that complains to no ends if the killer has a side objective or any kinds of stealth on top of that. Look at them complaining about onryo who honestly never needed that change but survivors didn't like her so boom, rework for no reason. Same with knight, skull merchant, and any killer who doesn't have chase interaction.

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 5,056

    Condemned is really strong, if used correctly.

    Sorry, but I'm starting to get tired of explaining this in every single post that gets created about her.

  • DBD78
    DBD78 Member Posts: 3,583

    It's sad but most players likes this. Me I love to play against Hag but I'm probably crazy.

  • LockerLurk
    LockerLurk Member Posts: 1,683

    I feel the same way about Dredge, Ghostface, and anyone else who isn't considered an A or S tier.

  • squbax
    squbax Member Posts: 1,748

    Put the best ghostface in the world against a comp team, even the most chopped one and the ghostface will be destroyed if they are not playing on Lerys. Certain killers depend on your opponent being bad at the game, thats just how they are designed.