http://dbd.game/killswitch
Revert generators back to 80 seconds, BUT
Apply the same penalty survivors get when working on the same gen(which is -0.15 charges per additional survivor, its why 2 people on 1 gen finish it in 53 seconds rather than 45).
1 person doing a solo gen, 80 seconds per generator.
2 people doing solo gens, ~94 seconds per generator(longer than it currently takes).
3 people doing solo gens, 115 seconds per generator.
And since its a debuff, it will stack quite heavily against things like Commodius Toolbox, speed addons and speed perks.
Just as a quick comparison, 3 survivors right now with a Commodius Toolbox+Socket Swivel+Wire Spool on a standard 90 second generator gives you 71 seconds before 3 generators are gone at the same time. (44/1.8=24.5 seconds of use of the toolbox, but 44 charges gone from the generator. So the generator takes 46+24.5=70.5 seconds, not taking any great skill checks into consideration)
Adding the penalty on 80 second generators, and 3 survivors with the same toolbox would take 86 seconds before 3 gens are gone at the same time.
1.8*0.7=1.26 44/1.26=35 seconds of use of the toolbox to implement 44 charges. 36/0.7=51 seconds. 51+35=86 second generators.
Same math with 70 second gens would lead to 72 second generators(basically the same as its now), but without toolboxes it would take 100 seconds for those who are curious. Problems with 70 seconds is that you would need to buff gen slowdown a lot to the point that it becomes impossible to balance.
And for those who are like "why not implement this on 90 second gens?" is simply because you would basically need to buff all generator progress perks for survivors to the point that it becomes impossible to balance.
The main reason, is because realistically the biggest issue with generators is parallel progress. Slowing down generators while being progressed together as basekit would be a really nice point. The optimal strategy for generator completion for survivor would be to have 2 survivors on 1 gen while 1 survivor works on another gen, rather than all of them splitting up on 3 seperate gens or having them all sit on 1 gen.
It would require putting gens back to 80 seconds, but the long term benefit is that generator completion overall will be slower.
Comments
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I don't think you are aware of this, but unless I am misunderstanding, that's how it was when they were 80 seconds.
The penalty was upped from 10% to 15% in 3.7.0
The gens were upped from 80 to 90 in 6.1.0
We lived what you're proposing already.
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That's not quite what the OP is saying. They're suggesting to apply the co-op penalty when survivors are working solo on separate gens. Which is an interesting proposition, certainly a new one...
But it kinda runs into the same issue as most other buff suggestions. Tunnelling and camping.
What situation, outside of the start of the game, is most likely to have three survivors splitting up on three gens? When the killer is pressuring only one survivor and no one else. This would weaken the counterplay to tunnelling and camping.
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When are survivors splitting up?
That's just… horrible. It's punishing survivors for doing their objective—the killer's job is to force survivors off the generators. If 2-3 are on them at a time and it's the start of the game, something is wrong.
And if they're taking risks to do gens (ex, avoid healing), that's inherently risk vs reward in play. No reason to punish survivors for playing well.
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I'd argue it's more a case of punishing survivors for the killer doing poorly, but yeah, the suggestion has its flaws. Still, I commend the OP for coming up with something new!
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I honestly think they can just revert it back to 80 seconds and not change anything else. It was fine the way it was.
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Survivors are already being punished for having 2 survivors on 1 gen. And its basically punishing survivors for doing their objectives TOO efficiently.
Lore-wise, its simply the entity intervening because the survivors dont have enough time to suffer. And with anti-camp, anti-tunnel and anti-slug being looked into further, which also impedes on the killer doing their objectives too efficiently.
Effectively, its the killers job to kill, but tunnelling 1 survivor at 5 gens isnt a fun experience unless you actively bring perks that punish tunnelling. So countermeasures are made so you're not forced to bring in perks.
Staying near the hook to try and get a free hookstate without having to chase again, is logically also part of the killers job, but that being done actively isnt a fun experience unless you actively bring perks against it. So anti-camp was added.
Slugging, arguably the most boring experience for survivors, so its going to get basekit measures soon.
Those changes are all logical because its to help make the game more fun. As someone who has close to 6k hours in it, having about 50/50 time spend on both roles(mainly survivor the past year and a half), there also needs to be a measure against survivors.
Turning the time up from 80 to 90 seconds was punishing survivors for just doing the objective. Going from 70 to 80 was punishing survivors from just doing the objective. Being injured isnt much of a risk if you have a syringe, Resillience, healed yourself up to 99% and have Dead Hard on top of that.
Thats like saying the killer is taking a risk by camping, and getting punished for it through anti-camp. It's about player enjoyment. And generators arent a problem as they are, it's the parallel processing of gens that is. The only way to combat parallel processing in a way that is both basekit and doesnt force killers to bring specific perks to enjoy weaker killers, is to implement a tiny penalty that wont matter too much in the long run, and realistically will only impact the early game.
Realistically speaking, you already spend more than 90 seconds on your average generator. 1 single Pain Res alone makes you spend 103 seconds instead of 90. So reducing the time by 10 seconds, but adding a penalty for parallel progression, its much easier to balance the entire game as a whole.
The main flaw I can find so far, is Legion and Plague with Thanatophobia, because debuffs multiply, so Thana might need a rework. But every other perk? Legit just changing the numbers around a little.0 -
No, I heavily disagree there, because BNP commodius and socket swivel would allow you to do 3 generators in 56 seconds. Not considering any other perks. You need roughly 70 seconds from the start of the game for the killer to be able to finish their first chase, and 2 gens remaining with only 1 hook is basically a guaranteed loss.
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We don't know what anti-tunnel changes are coming so I can only really discuss based on the game we do know:
My biggest concern is that there seems to be no reason not to tunnel. The main thing stopping tunneling is survivors pressuring gens where the killer needs to leave the hook else all the gens getting finished. The only reason survivors have to not to do gens is killer pressure. Even if they all bring something like Inner Healing that will only take up so much time, then they are back on gens, which are now overall slower.
I also feel it creates an issue with 3 gens remaining. Right now splitting pressure is a good idea, slower progress, but spread out the killer. This seems like it would make splitting gens in this scenario an awful idea and we'd have more incentive for a pile on gens approach, which I think when its the most dominant strategy is not great for game play.
And I hate to be the 'but SWFs' point of view, but having a dedicated gen rusher, a dedicated chase target, etc. would be the clear strategy, while right now there are arguments between focused and balanced approaches.
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It would buff perks like Inner Healing and Boons, which is nice.
I kind of like the idea, but I'm not sure it actually benefits the game.
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Oh yeah, my personal biggest gripe is that we dont have a single clue on what even the concept behind the changes is gonna be. There are some suggestions I have done in the past that I think would work very well (also quite mathy, but fair) but 0 clues.
We just know july-september will have anti-tunnel, anti-camp and anti-slug changes coming to make the game more enjoyable.
As for no reason to not tunnel, I am 100% trusting BHVR will implement something in terms of anti-tunnel, anti-camp and anti-slug that will make tunnelling 1 person from the start even more annoying than it already is (personally, I am kinda hoping for basekit DS for the first hooked survivor when it comes to anti-tunnel). But if tunnelling is "solved", then we do need an active counter measure for parallel progress too. And in general, gens wont be THAT much slower. 115 seconds for 3 gens to be gone at the same time isnt THAT long. 2 gens are still going to pop, the killer just has time to prevent 1 gen from popping and start a chase with the second survivor before both of them pop. By the time survivors have time to unhook, the killer will likely already have injured the second survivor and it becomes strategically better for that killer to down that survivor and hook them before going back to the survivor that just was unhooked, because (again, assuming proper implemenation) tunnelling would be "solved".
It would give way to tweak gen regression to a healthier state. It would give way to look into nerfs for high mobility killers like Kaneki and Nurse, while looking into buffs for low mobility/impaired killers like Trapper, Myers, Pig and Legion.
I dont think my numbers are perfect tho, I did do some maths compared to current DBD and its similar enough to work on paper, but theory and practice dont always match.
It would also require quite a large nerf in Vigil since debuff perks would slowly return to meta, and Vigil is currently a bit overbuffed. They should tweak the number from 0.66 to 0.35 to start with, or exclude some debuffs from the list(especially exposed).0 -
gen speed is already fast and gen regression for the most part is garbage. why does gen speed need a buff to begin with?
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The problem has always been in how much variation there is to gen speeds, much moreso than their base speed. They can go both way too fast and way too slow with how many variables there are to gen speed, which is why both sides simultaneously have issues with them being too fast/slow. What we need is to normalize the absurd amount of variables on speed/slow/blocking/etc, basically everything that affects their completion efficiency needs to be reworked in a unified system to prevent things like stacking and overbearing synergies. Even the 10 second increase was only 20-50 seconds basekit, before even being impacted by gen perks in either direction. Trying to honestly clean that up balance wise without any normalization or sanity checking is just spot treating.
I've seen people suggest tying gen manipulation on either side to a category to prevent stacking, similar to exhaustion. I still think something like that would be both more impactful and more fine tunable than just adjusting an average in the absurd +/- variations we have now.
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My gut reaction to this was "no way" but thinking a little more I think it's actually a decent suggestion. It's not perfect but it's definitely worth considering novel ideas like this.
My personal main concern is that this seems to directly buff the bully squad strategy of having 3 people harassing the killer and the 4th on gens. I like playing against teams that do that, but I know a lot of people who don't.
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Just simplify it and increase the amount of time it takes ro repair a gen cooperatively. Apply a ten second increase across the board.
This will slow down the early game, which takes the pressure off killers, without affecting the time it takes to complete a gen solo.
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I'm afraid generators are risky take and defienetly should not be done faster. I was more of make that gen takes 150s to finish and flat nerf the slowdown gen blocking and regression perks so the game are not as different between no slowdown and full slowdown while opening paths for fun builds too.
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Someone didnt read the post. Gen speed would still be nerfed
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it wouldn't be nerfed though since the strongest thing survivors can do is sit on individual gens and complete them
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Thats why this applies when survivors do individual gens seperately at the same time, hence why I said you didnt read it properly.
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