http://dbd.game/killswitch
The "go next" prevention is a disaster as expected
People getting hard tunneled, people missing more than 1 skill check in struggle phase on accident (new + console players) as well as people that simply try to use shoulder the burden as intended get erroneously flagged as "going next" and punished for it.
The system is everything I've feared and more. It's a catastrophe through and through and needs to be kill switched until all of those false positives are dealt with. Putting players in a time out for simply not playing the game optimally is insanity.
Comments
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- imagine if a killer was banned because he was inexperienced and couldn't get hooks... here in the forum there would literally be a revolution. but okay, let's wait for the next patch and see what happens. the game is already not very welcoming to "newcomers", so it's literally a nightmare🤣
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I have a clip of me being on hook for two stages and dying bc no survivor would unhook me. I could’ve at least given myself a 4% chance in the first stage before the patch but now I had to sit there and just wait 2+min when it’s clear no one had intentions of unhooking me. I purposely missed the skill checks in the second phase but don’t know if I got penalized for that bc I logged off. And this happened twice in a span of five matches. Yeah I’m not playing after this patch.
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They don't need to kill switch the system. They need to delete it entirely because no one asked for it. Just admit that it was a mistake and move on from it. What people wanted was for people to stop going next on the hook. That's all we needed and then we could have looked into something more if it turned out to not be enough. This kind of draconian crap is ridiculously harsh and is never going to work the way that Behavior thinks it will.
I'd honestly make the same argument for the new point system that requires you to play TWENTY games to lose part of the penalty. Do people realize how much time twenty games is? If you assume a match is twelve minutes then that's FOUR HOURS in game alone just to go down one level. Not even counting the time you spend in queues, menus, loading screens, etc. Also remember the penalties no longer go away over time anymore. This kind of stuff is only going to drive people away in the long term.
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It was very expected that the remedy is worse than the disease tbh.
I think they should just remove it and keep only the anti-suicide on hook measures.
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They only care about the killer experience, as expected. They don't care about survivors, or you wouldn't see what everyone knew all along. Nearly anyone who plays this game regularly can easily achieve a win rate of 70-80%. This is not a balanced or well-designed PvP game.
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100% agreed. It's even worse with all the false positives and then having to play more games just to get rid of the penalty. That means you'd have to play even more and hope that you don't get falsely flagged via getting tunneled or whatever. The Survivor role will become literally unplayable at this rate.
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Team mates in my matches that want to "go next" but no longer can with the hook just run around and throw all the pallets, blow up generators that I am working on, etc.
I really hope this gets fixed. I cannot play the game until it is. Do not get me started on the crows too…
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I knew it would.
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I honestly don't understand why they don't remove this along with the dc penalty. Bots replace the player on a dc so why bother with it at this point?
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Lol I love when people complain about something for years, then they throw a fix at it and then those same people complain about the fix😂 tell y'all what, just shut your pieholes, play the game as intended and made and stop believing you deserve anything to be changed just because some people dont like it. Its theor game, their conpany, they should just simply put out the game as they see fit and not change a damn thing, ever. Learn to play the game as intended, plain n simple. Christ, y'all so entitled anymore and want eveeything catered to u. Pathetic.
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The audio issues drove me away yesterday, so I haven't see how the go-next prevention works yet, but if you literally can't do anything when you're on the hook now, it's a step backwards. One of the big problems this game has is that it's based around denying action to the other team, which isn't fun. Players need to have choices they can make at every stage of the game.
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Yeah, it's a total nightmare. You are never going to make a game better by trying to constantly chase whining. The game was already basically perfect. You win some; you lose some. It's toxic, and that is genuinely a feature and why people play. I could explain the psychology of DBD and why it's fun while most "arena" based games just aren't, but that would take more typing than I feel like right now. The only thing that they could do was break things that are working, which this patch is an example of.
-1 -
Yeah, there were people who complained about Survivors going next. But many of us knew that actually preventing going-next would only cause a whole new slew of problems.
So for those who complained about going next and demanded harsher penalties, I hope you're satisfied.
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Yes, they really need to remove as soon as possible, because this is ridiculous.
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I was talking to my friends about how I was worried it would count someone being tunneled out first as "giving up".
I mean they can't even do a ban for someone have 200 times speed from hacks or finishing a gen right away. So I'm not surprised by this at all.
BHVR please get rid of it and while we are at it please remove all the hand holding and forcing people to play a certain way - killer and survivor. It's killing this game for me. My wallet will thank me, but I'm close to just leaving DBD. It has gotten out of control.
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All they needed to do was remove self-unhooking without perks. Hell, they could even remove the struggle phase skill checks too to fix the problem. Everything else is unnecessary.
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I do agree with this, they clearly overreached to solve a problem that any reasonable player wanted to be solved and made an even worse problem in doing so…
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agreed. i thought about coming back after years because of fnaf, but the go next system is so horrendous im not gonna play and risk getting suspended or penalized.
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I disagree. I have self unhooked or attempted too because the killer was proxy camping, my teammates were to busy hiding or doing gens. Also I should not be forced to Stay in a game where teammates eff off or purposefully throw.
Yesterday I could not attempt to speed things up because my 2 were dead and one was hiding in the basement. I was forced to stay on the hook, a sincere waste of time.
I also made a post prior as this system should be paused and not made live.
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Letting go during struggle is actually important sometimes, especially in solo queue. If I see my team coming to save and I know the killer is camping/has some type of build to potentially snowball im letting go so the rest of the team leaves. Same goes for when the last teammate could get hatch. This is a dumb change and ruins many tactical options for survivors.
Potential to self unhook during end game/slugging situations is also gone. Anything to secure those 4ks i guess?
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Exactly. What's the point of even struggling now? I'd rather look at my phone for that minute than hit pointless skill checks.
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Because the bots are terrible. They are better than nothing, but they do dumb ######### like struggle on hook when it’s just you and them left with 3-5 gens. They will watch you do a gen injured until completion, as they tea bag you to signal they want to heal you. Same if they are injured and see you doing a gen- they will remain crouched for heals and watch you do a gen. They suck against anti-loop killers.
We play this game to have live interactions with real humans- it’s not fair to teammates to have the match cranked up to very hard mode or dropped to easy mode for killers, because of the bots.
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Yes, please. Stop trying to force people. We'll figure it out! Promise! <3
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I literary just played a game where I had shoulder the burden, used it to take one of the hook states of a teammate who was tunneled, got hooked after that but escaped in the end and got a point for that.
Did really noone at BHV bother to do some sort of quality control or check if this new system works with every perk?
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I had to miss five consecutive skill checks as the second-to-last survivor to give the last survivor a chance at the hatch.
What the actual hell. Why not just take away my skill checks and put a giant flashing neon arrow over that survivor's head and glue them in place, at that point. "Can still let yourself die to give the last survivor a chance at the hatch." Pffft.
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How in the hell are people getting anti 'go next' points if they are escaping what????
Does the system really not account for people actually surviving the match they supposedly were trying to leave?
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Yeah, the Shoulder the Burden thing is a bug, the devs have confirmed. Though it is pretty wild to get a DC penalty even after escaping.
Did you get the DC penalty for letting go on hook?
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Im assuming that the systems thinks that I tried to kill myself cause I went trough the hook states too quickly. Which baffles me is that apparently using shoulder the burden counts as you burning through a hook state. Like its literary the point of the perk
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Maybe they need to check the system inconsistencies. I used shoulder the burden all day yesterday, same scenario but I didn't get a point. Something isn't adding up.
I can say this, I haven't had one person yesterday try to go next, so thats something.
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Instead of BHVR seeing and fixing why people keep going next, they implement hand holding and force game play. That will kill your main player base. It just keeps getting worse and worse.
I will say they have made some changes for the better but it seems like with every step forward there is one or two steps backwards.
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Do you think the game can tell the difference between "going next" and a Myer's tombstone piece?
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I did not, thankfully. I was really worried whether I would or not. Since the game doesn't tell you anything, doesn't give you any in-game warning but just punishes you after the fact, I usually don't let go on the hook when I'm the second-to-last survivor because I have no idea if I'll get a penalty and I absolutely care more about not getting a penalty over anything else.
This is so busted. I know I'm screwing over my teammates in those cases, but I'm just not risking it. Even a dev telling me on the forum, "It's fine, you can always let go," doesn't really convince me considering the cases where I've seen people get warnings when they didn't let go.
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Pretty much everyone predicated the system would cause lots of collateral damage and cause more problems than it fixed, it worries me that people who are supposed to be professionals at this need to make such avoidable mistakes. This and the map changes they've made make me worry about the trajectory of their decision making. Listening is great but you need to be able to distinguish bad and good information.
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Was going to say this but you beat me to the punch.
Hell, I even had this happen to a friend. They are brand new to the game, only started playing because of the FNAF Chapter, got a warning because they got tunneled out insanely fast (matchmaking was putting them against half-decent Killers instead of new players because they were playing with me).
Inexperienced players should not be punished for trying to learn the game, nor should they be punished this hard for playing against experienced Killers because they wanted to play with friends. Genuinely sucks to see.
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This is how the devs operate: they don't implement measures that are narrowly tailored to address community feedback. The devs are too eager to address input broadly.
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It is a disaster and needs to be removed until it's fixed. Another issue with this system is that it forces you to stay in games with cheaters and trolls.
I just had a game where a SWF group kept running up to the killer and getting themselves downed while completely ignoring the generators. They had no intention of actually playing the game, and they even brought luck offerings. It’s frustrating to be stuck in a match like this or face a disconnect penalty. I think I'm done playing survivor for now; it just doesn't feel worth my time. Good job Devs…
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I have no idea and am curious myself. If it's based off of how fast you die into the match, Tombstone Piece Myers with J Myers Memorial, and dumb teammates that end up feeding him to EW2 99% early into the match, resulting in him popping the last 1% on you and tombstoning you with 5 gens left is probably going to proc it lol.
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what they need to do is revert it back, still keep the unhook as offering and perk based , but make it so if you don’t have any of those when your about to go 2 phase you can take a attempt , that way you at least have a chance of getting of hook if none of your teammates are coming or near the hook before you go second , I spent a match yesterday on hook the whole time I ended up dc’ing when I was about to die as all three teammates were on the complete opposite side of the map , two on a gen and one crouching in a corner , at 5 gens too , I’m a solo Que survivor mainly but have decided to be a full blown killer main till they fix these stupid updates they made
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Unfortunately the only thing that is going to get BHVR to act with any urgency on this is if people stop playing. As long as the player count stays high and the money keeps pouring in, all this outrage is going to simply be ignored because there is no meaningful negative consequence for them ignoring it. There might be some bad press in the community for a little while, but it will be quickly forgotten.
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Imagine if people would have predicted this xD
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If only someone had told them that trying to punish people for playing isn't a good idea.
If only someone had told them that any system they tried to implement would either be ineffectual or catch a TON of innocent players in the crossfire.
Weird how that worked out.
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Its funny, I've asked in another thread for video of this so that the devs could try to have something, anything, to work with, but its just constant doomposts like this. Not even a dislike on the post asking. When issues like this happen in a game, and you have a line of communication with the development team, it is far more effective to provide relevant details for them to work with in identifying the cause of a system going wrong.
I have no doubt that there are people getting false flagged, but it could be something as simple as "the second skill check attempt isnt registering" or "x situational checks were implemented, but its order of operation is wrong so y factor gets missed." Video of everything leading up to and including the error easily saves hundreds of hours of manpower in bug fixing.
If this bug affects you, document and submit it in a way that helps the devs understand and fix it.
This is the alternative. If you can't contribute to the solution, then wait for a fix and don't give business in the meantime. Its harsh to tell anyone to not support a game or team that they want to, but its just as important for your own mental health as a player. If the game is in a state that you are not able to derive enjoyment from it, don't subject yourself to it knowing you're going to be miserable. Basically either do what you can to help fix the issue, or go without until it is in better shape. This has been the case with this game pretty much since its inception, and literally where the Civ meme came from.
Edit: Hey, at least this one got some dislikes :) Still prefer more constructive feedback and data for the devs tho.
Post edited by Ryuhi on-14 -
So I'll bite I guess.
I'm not playing survivor. That's my response. Been my response for a while, but that's another topic.
But I can also confidently say that I've given my constructive feedback for about two years now.
I've had numerous conversations over the years in various threads, and with different people on these forums talking about exactly these issues. Most recently:
I mentioned it earlier, or maybe in another thread, I forget, but I had a long back and forth conversation with someone a couple months ago. They were saying, roughly, "survivors should be punished if they haven't completed a gen in a while", and I went into great detail about how that would generate a ton of false positives, trigger on things like "being slugged", "hiding while the killer kicks your gen", "cleansing hexes", and a huge list of other things that are actual gameplay.
So that was my constructive feedback. On the devs own forum, discussing these issues, and specifically saying "hey, if you put a system in place for this it should consider these elements, at minimum". That's the best I can do, especially since I can't directly message a dev because it's against forum rules.
So when they ignore that feedback entirely, and also just put in a system that literally just punishes normal gameplay without any of the safeguards or considerations, then yeah, I've said all of this before and been ignored, so now instead of a proactive "consider this with your future patch", it's "your system has issues because you didn't consider this yourselves or listen".
On top of, "you've made a mistake already and need to backtrack".
At this point, I'm just shouting into a void. So yeah, I feel fully within my right to criticize these decisions, lack of foresight, and heavy handed tactics. Especially because I've been vocal about why exactly this is a bad idea in the past.
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Okay, and what is the survivor compensating change? Not every change should be killer sided
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None of what you said is wrong, especially the feeling ignored part. My point was more toward the data aspect than the feedback one, could have maybe been a bit more clear on that. I do honestly want to see how it plays out in some examples without having to comb through content creators, and its the type of data that helps the devs isolate these types of issues.
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I get that. However how helpful is a teammate who doesn't wish to be in that match? Imo you're better off with a questionable bot than a person who likely won't even attempt to do anything.
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My guess is that they don't really care. They're trying to cater to the Five Nights at Freddy's fans who joined just to play the killer. Survivors are always going to get the short end of the stick in situations like this. Next, they'll probably address slugging, which will upset the killer base, leading to another revision of whatever change they implement. Then, someday, maybe when they release the next killer, they'll finally address the crows and the 'go next' prevention.
But let’s be real, they’re never going to fix it completely, this is just the new norm. Survivor mains are going to start complaining about tunneling, and killer mains will say there's no way to satisfy survivor players. ‘They've pretty much nerfed killers into the ground with the slugging update.’ Those of us who have played for years know the cycle.6 -
Honestly, they could have just had a system where people report people for going next, and after a certain number of reports, it could trigger a manual review of what that player was doing and issue temp bans and eventual permanent bans based off of that.
Right now I was massively pressuring a map as Ghoul at 1 gen (I was dicking around), and decided I would finally play seriously with the 3 gen I had secured because the survivors I was up against were pretty inexperienced (no idea why they were in my game), so I wanted to at least let them have a little bit of fun instead of destroying them all at the 1 minute mark, when I had 3 of them hooked.
Just trying to not be a dick ended up with me getting all 4 of them crows because they couldn't get near gens without me flying into them and chasing them off.
This system was so poorly thought out, I can't begin to understand what they do in BHVR to come up with these ideas. It's literally like no one plays the game. And BHVR banned me off of Steam Discussions for DBD because they said I was being overly hostile, but I caught multiple DC penalties for their servers kicking me and other people out and saddling us with multi-hour bans and getting basically "LOL, sucks to suck" from their support.
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But I can also confidently say that I've given my constructive feedback for about two years now.
At this point, I'm just shouting into a void.
Yeah, I know how you feel. About this and so many other things. Posting on these forums has felt like shouting into the void for years.
I've complained about the problem of do-nothing stealthing survivors for a long time. My opinion has always mainly been that what's needed is to rework the reward system for escaping. That 9.5k for a hatch escape is a huge reward and it often goes to players who contributed nothing and that's why they survived while their teammates died. If the amount rewarded to survivors upon escape was based on participation, like say emblem scores, then doing nothing would reward nothing.
This is supposed to be a casual party game. Punishment should be the last resort and it should never be an unnecessarily wide net. And people shouldn't be forced to play according to a strict, narrow set of rules. Not unless this is no longer a casual game. Do I wish that teammate would do gens instead of following me around in chase so they can try for a flashlight save? Hell yes. Do I think it's my place to say they're not allowed to find going for saves to be the fun part of the game? No. And I've seen people who want flashlight saves get birds. And I had a match today where 3 people escaped because a teammate got a flashlight save that kept it a 4v1 instead of letting it become an early 3v1. For god's sake, if people want to do something that's not gens, if people find other elements of the game fun, if they prefer totem hunting or going for saves to be fun, then whatever. It's a game, people should be having fun. These birds are not fun.
BHVR just needs to stop rewarding the do-nothing stealthing survivors with a a crapton of Bloodpoints for escaping. Base the escape score event on their emblem scores. If all three participation emblems are barren, they damn well don't deserve 9.5k BP for escaping. If my 3 teammates run up to the killer to die and so the killer lets me have a pity hatch, then hey, that's nice of the killer, but no, I didn't actually earn anything in that trial. I'm no longer punished with a depip for those matches, that's what matters; the game doesn't need to reward me.
Hmm… I've really gone off here, haven't I. My apologies.
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I'm sorry if I can't help but grin at this obvious failure of a system doing what any rational and sane person knew it would do and said it would do…The schadenfreude here is just too intoxicating. 😅
Let them enjoy it. You get what you ask for. I saw some y'all begging, pleading, even groveling for this. That BHVR was surely going to get it right this time (while conveniently ignoring the 1,000,000 examples of them not getting it right). Really giving it to those filthy go-nexters with this one, aye?
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